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  1. - Top - End - #31
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Yu-Gi-Oh!

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    On the one hand, "if anything" three times...it's weak townread, but wolves tend to do this thing where they'll go back and edit something in the middle of their post to make it stand out less while still making the point they wanted to make (where townies tend to type more to get their ideas out and focus a bit less on how it appears). I feel like a wolf scanning their post for anything that's too weird would've caught this and rephrased, even if just to remove one if the "if anything"s that's in the same sentence as the other.

    On the other hand, this post feels vague and wishy-washy. Doesn't really call anybody out, doesn't really add new information. Words for words sake, is my impression.
    I'll address the bottom part at least. The main point of the post was to acknowledge Murska's response, which was me saying I didn't see the vote (or his response) as wolfish. I wanted a response to the random vote comment, and I said I was happy with the response, even if I could have cut down on my word count to say that.

    I also wanted to acknowledge what else had gone on, so I made a note that I was thinking over Valmark's decision not to make a wagon. As for Jeen, I wanted to echo what Book Wombat said and am waiting on Jeen's response. I guess neither line was really necessary but I'll tend to throw in those extra comments, when there's so little to talk about in the first place.



    It's true that I'm not calling anyone out, but I don't know that there is anyone that needs to be called out right now? Valmark's vote change to avoid a wagon is the closest to anything I would say something about, but I really don't think a Wolf would draw attention to themselves by changing the vote to a new person. Might as well leave it and say you wanted to get conversation started by making a wagon.

    As for Jeen, I want to see a response before I judge his mistaking one power for another. Jeen has made plans based on his power before (definitely as town, not sure as wolf) but I want to see him talk through it more, especially if he miscalculated.








    Vote Count:
    Apogee1 (1): JeenLeen
    rogue_alchemist (1): Elenna
    totadileplayz (1): BookWombat
    AvatarVecna (1): CaoimhinTheCape
    JeenLeen (1): totadileplayz
    CaoimhinTheCape (2): Valmark, Murska
    Gac3 (1): AvatarVecna
    totadileplayz (1): BatCatHat
    Elenna (1): Apogee1

    Not Voting: rogue_alchemist, Gac3

  2. - Top - End - #32
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Yu-Gi-Oh!

    If the list earlier is accurate at that point in time, it looks like Rogue Alchemist is the only one not voting yet. So let's get you moving!

    Also, hi BatCatHat! How long have you been playing these?


    Edit: Ninja'd. It still looks to be true based on the new list.
    Last edited by gac3; 2021-05-06 at 06:50 PM.

  3. - Top - End - #33
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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Yu-Gi-Oh!

    Hey gac. This is my second game ever, I'd say something snarky about my confusion at everything but already did that all last game and knowing the psycho-analytical triple think in these games, it'd probably just make me look suspicious. (Wait. Did this now make me look suspicious? Thinking this much about what I'm saying makes me feel like I'm on a first date, except my date might be trying to kill me).

  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Yu-Gi-Oh!

    Quote Originally Posted by totadileplayz View Post
    I tend to think on what I'd do, since it helps avoid some of my own psychological problems and yes I seriously believe I would do that as a wolf. In the most serious means becoming the hub for the town gives you a very powerful role, and this play can do that. As a wolf a relatively low chance of death, for a high chance for an effectively won game is a solid play. And the serious notion that wolves should be quiet and reserved is a misnomer, wolves want to direct the town to kill other town. This play if successful as a wolf would do that, and there's not much chance once we become enscorcelled in it that we'd be able to escape it.
    You're speaking from the perspective of a proper wolf gambit, but this clearly wasn't that - it was pointed out in very short order that it would never work. I agree that wolves can make gambits and try to steer town, but my assertion is that they, when doing so, spend time and effort creating said gambit and making it believable.
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    Trusting Murska worked out great!
    Quote Originally Posted by happyturtle View Post
    A Murska without lies is like a day without sunshine.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xihirli View Post
    I say we completely leave our fate in the hands of the trustworthy Murska and continue in complete safety.

  5. - Top - End - #35
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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Yu-Gi-Oh!

    Quote Originally Posted by Murska View Post
    You're speaking from the perspective of a proper wolf gambit, but this clearly wasn't that - it was pointed out in very short order that it would never work. I agree that wolves can make gambits and try to steer town, but my assertion is that they, when doing so, spend time and effort creating said gambit and making it believable.
    This kind of leads down a steep slippery slope that ends into WIFOM- meaning that a wolf could have went 'They'll think a wolf wouldn't have attracted attention like this!' and from there one can continue.

    Or think it's a genuinely good idea, which can be both Town- and Wolf-y.
    I won an argument with my GM -15/08/2017- (20:32 GMT +1)

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  6. - Top - End - #36
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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Yu-Gi-Oh!

    Any WIFOM can be distilled into three levels, of which I generally assume only the first two are in play unless I have drastic evidence otherwise. This is based on sheer experience, both in my own thought processes as a wolf and in observation of others - people just don't go into three-level-deep plots because they expect to be countered by first-level play, where most people are, and because saying something along the lines of 'I would never have done X as a wolf, because of Y' is terrible and borderline suicidal (as opposed to having someone else point it out, which is a gambit and dangerous).

    I'm saying thinking a flawed plan is a genuinely good idea is more towny than wolfy, because a wolf would, on average, spend more time thinking it over as they have to both consider it from the perspective of their town cover role and from their actual perspective as a wolf.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lamech View Post
    Trusting Murska worked out great!
    Quote Originally Posted by happyturtle View Post
    A Murska without lies is like a day without sunshine.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xihirli View Post
    I say we completely leave our fate in the hands of the trustworthy Murska and continue in complete safety.

  7. - Top - End - #37
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Yu-Gi-Oh!

    Wait... I just went to the first post to find the detail, but are we aware of how long a day/night phase is?

  8. - Top - End - #38
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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Yu-Gi-Oh!

    Quote Originally Posted by gac3 View Post
    Wait... I just went to the first post to find the detail, but are we aware of how long a day/night phase is?
    I was wondering about that too, but since no one else seemed to be I just assumed I'd overlooked it somewhere.

  9. - Top - End - #39
    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Yu-Gi-Oh!

    I want to reread totaldileplayz' accusation against me before I comment on it and consider moving my vote. But I agree in general with those defending me that this seems a horrible ploy for a wolf to do, especially early D1. But, yeah, give me some time to reread and think.

    I agree with whoever wrote that Elenna's first post sounded a bit off in some way. It kinda reminded me of how she's posted when wolf in the past.

    Quote Originally Posted by Murska View Post
    Both? I mean, I did explain my reasoning when I voted. Given that I want to pressure someone to get the first day going, and so have a limited pool of people to target, I chose to target Cao in particular because they'd already voted (and done so without saying anything that would make me consider them unlikely to be a wolf).
    That's fair. Makes sense to start a wagon on someone you know is around to respond to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Book Wombat View Post
    Tea isn't a baner though, they're a necromancer (?).
    Quote Originally Posted by Apogee1 View Post
    Jeen I can guess somewhat as to what your plan is. Have you considered how the vortexer interacts with it (in the -- in my opinion likely -- case that wolves have a vortexer)?
    Quote Originally Posted by Cao
    <not actually quoting him, but just noting that Cao made similar remarks
    I have screwed myself up rather significantly, especially since (if I understand it right) the Yugi-bane does nothing N1, and I reckon the strongest bet for the Lovers is to protect each other.
    However, my plan perhaps still has merit. If I die, Dark Magician Girl might be able to help verify a towncore (or at least, of these X people, probably only 1 is a wolf) and we can try to investigate them more fully. And if the seer(s) targeted me, they'd likely know which one of them is fool and which true seer (again, barring really bad RNG result for Marik), since my Role would become public.

    If Diabound and Dark Magician Girl both target me, and I live, we should be able to lynch Diabound D2.
    Honestly, I was counting on Diabound vortexing me to redirect Tea's bane to one of the wolves... but that isn't what Tea does, so... well, that is bad for me and is a disincentive for the wolves to do what I want. (Or I am misdirecting them by this paragraph? )

    Though if I'm the N1 kill, I don't think it's terrible for Town. It probably means both Diabound and Zorc target me, which greatly limits how much they can screw up other townies.
    If I survive, it'll work awesome. If the wolves kill me... my power is kinda awesome in some niche scenarios, but they seem rather niche and unlikely to materialize well. So me being dead ain't terrible.

  10. - Top - End - #40
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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Yu-Gi-Oh!

    Quote Originally Posted by Batcathat View Post
    I was wondering about that too, but since no one else seemed to be I just assumed I'd overlooked it somewhere.
    I'll extend it if we're waiting on people but my goal is 24 hours.
    Spoiler: Quotes
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zar Peter View Post
    Supagoof took the most blows and incidentally took exactly the same damage Xihirli inflicted.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silent_Interim View Post
    Xihirli: Being a better target since 2015.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elenna View Post
    Xihirli, bastion of murder and betrayal.
    Quote Originally Posted by BasketOfPuppies View Post
    Wow I missed a lot today. So, kill Xihirli?
    Quote Originally Posted by Iceseer View Post
    I really wanted what Xihirli said to be true though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    If Xi and I agree some more, I will start to doubt my own alignment!
    Quote Originally Posted by flat_footed View Post
    I still prefer to see you as the dagger hanging over us all, Xi.

  11. - Top - End - #41
    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Yu-Gi-Oh!

    Had time to read and respond. Here's the rest of my answer.

    I'll be up-front that I'm aware this totally can look like a wolf defending himself, but folk have asked for my response, and I find this a fun thing to do between some annoying projects at work.

    Also, I'll start off with moving my vote to totaldileplayz.
    Nothing definite, but he might be a wolf trying to get me lynched before my plan has to be dealt with. (Even if it's flawed, it'd be annoying for the wolves to have to deal with.)
    Also don't like how he speculated on my Role publicly. Like he's doing the wolves thinking for them. I'd like to think the Town (even if they strongly suspect my Role) wouldn't share their thoughts until D2 lest it influence wolf actions N1.
    I am not confirming or denying his speculation. Just the fact he made some is what seems iffy. Also, if I were any of you, I'd be considering the fact that JeenLeen might be lying about what his plan really is and what Role he's hinting he has. I have done that as Town before. But I'm honest this time. :P

    The "maybe he is Town" thoughts are that 1) accusing me like that is risky for a wolf, 2) nothing sounds dishonest in his post. Still, a good wolf can sound honest.

    Quote Originally Posted by totadileplayz View Post
    Ok I have to be honest. I actually fail to see how in any mafia set up adding a bunch of heat to a specific townie can help when a possible mafia transporter means that heat could be redirected anywhere. Or he could be the killer which means all card effects are nulled and simply say the lover must have targeted him.

    So then cross-checking we try to look at the townie roles and see what ones makes it a logical play.
    the only logical result would be Mai Verbatim the only one that relies on them being targeted.

    The question becomes is the all too real possibility that he's simply trying to deny as many players abilities as possible true or is it a bad mai verbatim play? So far this is the most wolfy play someone's done as far as I can see, and it's at least better then random voting. I mean two wolf's could use it or a single possible town role.

    Jeenleen
    From the recruitment thread, I got confirmation that the N1 Yugi bane doesn't work. But I thought Tea was the baner and that I'd be relatively safe (or the wolves would at least guess Tea might bane me, so they'd go for someone else)

    If you think I lied about really believing Tea is the baner: though I can see a wolf lying about that belief, on one hand, wolf!me would have extensively double-checked all the logic holes and bounced this off the team before posting. My voting history in past games shows that I find a misread of the rules rather suspicious (or at least suspicious enough D1 to earn a vote), and I don't think I would do it purposefully.
    I get you don't necessarily trust this, as I could be a wolf defending myself... but, well, anyway, posting it anyway.

    I tend to think on what I'd do, since it helps avoid some of my own psychological problems and yes I seriously believe I would do that as a wolf. In the most serious means becoming the hub for the town gives you a very powerful role, and this play can do that. As a wolf a relatively low chance of death, for a high chance for an effectively won game is a solid play. And the serious notion that wolves should be quiet and reserved is a misnomer, wolves want to direct the town to kill other town. This play if successful as a wolf would do that, and there's not much chance once we become enscorcelled in it that we'd be able to escape it.
    Mark against me: the last game taught how, in a small game, the wolves don't need to look very towny for long. I could see a ploy like this in a very small game.
    But this isn't a very small game (for our forum's standards).

    The only reason I can really see for wolf!me to do this ploy early D1 is a half-hearted attempt to defend wolf!Cao (who got 2 votes), in hopes this somehow moves votes off them. It would go with me questioning Murksha's motivations.
    But as I don't defend Cao or accuse anyone else in any way via this ploy.

    So, yeah, I get your point that it could be a wolf ploy D1 to gain leadership, but I also don't think it's a strong one.
    Well, here's one case where it would almost get the wolves a win, if Bakura knows certain Roles don't exist. It would be very fun to spell this thought out and have it analyzed, but I don't want to spell it out lest I give the wolves ideas.
    I thought of it because it's a way they could really screw the Town over via my ploy. But it requires several low-probability events to all be happening. (Xi basically said the Roles aren't randomly chosen to be in the game or not, and implied that standard Roles have a more likely chance of being present than non-standard, though not guaranteed.) If I were a wolf, I reckon I could use it do the screwing.

    Cao, if you flip wolf later and I get killed because of D1... well, kudos to you wolves
    Ditto to Murksha. Your defense of me is basically my defense in short. If you flip wolf and that gets me killed, good move looking rational towny while setting me up to look like a scumbuddy. (I've heard the legends of you, but like AV I'm inclined to do the "do not lynch new players D1" even with seasoned players who are returning from a long hiatus. Just had a terrifying thought that we might now have 3 nigh-impossible folk to read: AvatarVecna, Xihirli, and Murska.)
    Some quotes of Murska's defense:

    Quote Originally Posted by Murska View Post
    You really think a wolf would make a play like that, this early? I can see a wolf planning a fancy deception beforehand to get out the gate with, but then I'd imagine it would be well thought out. And mostly wolves just want to lay low and say little of any use.
    Quote Originally Posted by Murska View Post
    I'm saying thinking a flawed plan is a genuinely good idea is more towny than wolfy, because a wolf would, on average, spend more time thinking it over as they have to both consider it from the perspective of their town cover role and from their actual perspective as a wolf.
    My General Feel of the Other Players

    I noted how totaldileplayz feels a bit wolfy to me and thus I've moved my vote.
    Some stuff folk wrote about Cao looking "wolf trying to deflect heat" has some merit. Not enough in isolation to make me move my vote to him, but I agree it has merit and might warrant some investigation.
    Also, as I already noted, Elenna's post sounded a touch off to me, but, again, nothing substantial there. (I almost moved my vote to her after she posted, but didn't want to get into "you sound vaguely like you did as a wolf several games ago" territory.)

    I have a feeling of a general "nobody has said anything super-Town thus far". Everything sounds neutral at best. Some solid commentary, but nothing a wolf wouldn't do.
    Actually, that's incorrect: towncred to Book Wombat for pointing out about Tea. I can see the wolves wanting misinformation to perpetuate. Yeah, it would come out eventually, but no reason for a wolf to point it out until players are invested in a bad idea.

    Not 100% sure of my read about Apogee asking about Diabound's influence. It does sound legit towny to get the thought out there, lest we go along with a bad plan easily foiled. And he didn't seem to be pressing for details (though I gave them), just making sure it was considered.
    On the other hand, a wolf could also ask that and look towny (after all, I said it looks towny), while hoping I would give more details than I should and to help decipher if they should vortex me.
    Yet from my hand: it gave me a good chance to spread some WIFOM to the wolves, so that was fun.

    Batcathat would look suspicious, but they were Town last game and talked similar to how talking this game. But both Batcathat and totaldileplayz are new enough to the forum games that I don't really trust my read of them yet. (I will admit that totaldileplayz's posting style rubs me as 'wolf', even when they are town, so that bias might be impacting my read of them.)

    That AV posted about hypocrisy (or lack thereof) by not-voting Murska... kinda a Towny comment in general, as a wolf posting it might draw undue attention to themselves (as AV kinda did from Valmark.) But then again, this is AV, and that's a subtle WIFOM I could see wolf!AV doing. So neutral read from what would otherwise be a Towny read from most players.
    Last edited by JeenLeen; 2021-05-07 at 03:27 PM.

  12. - Top - End - #42
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    ElfRogueGirl

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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Yu-Gi-Oh!

    I'm pretty sure I've seen bad D1 plans significantly more often from town than from wolves. All else aside, wolves have more incentive to keep their heads down. Plus what Murska said about how wolves are likely to think it through more.

    Re: my first post, I kinda see what people are getting at, in that it probably is an unusual way for me to phrase that? I didn't feel like making another RNGesus joke, couldn't think of a more graceful way to insert the information "this is a random vote", and I was in a bit of a hurry, so I just stuck it in brackets.

    Keeping my vote on rouge_alchemist for now as pressure for him to vote/post.

    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post

    I have screwed myself up rather significantly, especially since (if I understand it right) the Yugi-bane does nothing N1, and I reckon the strongest bet for the Lovers is to protect each other.
    However, my plan perhaps still has merit. If I die, Dark Magician Girl might be able to help verify a towncore (or at least, of these X people, probably only 1 is a wolf) and we can try to investigate them more fully. And if the seer(s) targeted me, they'd likely know which one of them is fool and which true seer (again, barring really bad RNG result for Marik), since my Role would become public.

    If Diabound and Dark Magician Girl both target me, and I live, we should be able to lynch Diabound D2.
    Honestly, I was counting on Diabound vortexing me to redirect Tea's bane to one of the wolves... but that isn't what Tea does, so... well, that is bad for me and is a disincentive for the wolves to do what I want. (Or I am misdirecting them by this paragraph? )

    Though if I'm the N1 kill, I don't think it's terrible for Town. It probably means both Diabound and Zorc target me, which greatly limits how much they can screw up other townies.
    If I survive, it'll work awesome. If the wolves kill me... my power is kinda awesome in some niche scenarios, but they seem rather niche and unlikely to materialize well. So me being dead ain't terrible.
    I'm still very confused by what your plan is here. The "finding the true seer" part won't work if they're vortexed away from you. And I'm not quite sure how you plan to catch Diabound, unless your plan is that everyone Dark Magician Girl saw should publically claim? Which seems sketchy. But how else would Dark Magician Girl distinguish between Diabound and amyone else?

    Also I feel like the general issue with a large towncore in this game will be that the 2 QT role means that when enough players are involved, information will have to be passed around like a game of Telephone, so if a wolf gets in it would be easy for them to sabotage plans or information gathering. Which is of course part of the reason for that rule.
    So making a network with "probably only one wolf" doesn't seem that great...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Xihirli View Post
    I'll extend it if we're waiting on people but my goal is 24 hours.
    24 hour day phases seem pretty short - your game of course, I just like 48 hour day 24 hour night better.
    I'm Chaotic Good! Ish!

  13. - Top - End - #43
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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Yu-Gi-Oh!

    Well, I want to see larger vote movement to get discussion and actual lynch pressure around, and I did mention that totaldileplayz felt slightly off, so I'll join my first townread on this wagon. This is three votes, fully enough to get someone killed, so if you people want someone else to get killed instead I suggest making an effort.
    Last edited by Murska; 2021-05-08 at 09:02 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lamech View Post
    Trusting Murska worked out great!
    Quote Originally Posted by happyturtle View Post
    A Murska without lies is like a day without sunshine.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xihirli View Post
    I say we completely leave our fate in the hands of the trustworthy Murska and continue in complete safety.

  14. - Top - End - #44
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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Yu-Gi-Oh!

    Quote Originally Posted by Elenna View Post
    24 hour day phases seem pretty short - your game of course, I just like 48 hour day 24 hour night better.
    I was talking about night (M2). Sorry for the confusion. 48 hour M1 24 hour M2, I'll add it to post one.
    Spoiler: Quotes
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zar Peter View Post
    Supagoof took the most blows and incidentally took exactly the same damage Xihirli inflicted.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silent_Interim View Post
    Xihirli: Being a better target since 2015.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elenna View Post
    Xihirli, bastion of murder and betrayal.
    Quote Originally Posted by BasketOfPuppies View Post
    Wow I missed a lot today. So, kill Xihirli?
    Quote Originally Posted by Iceseer View Post
    I really wanted what Xihirli said to be true though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    If Xi and I agree some more, I will start to doubt my own alignment!
    Quote Originally Posted by flat_footed View Post
    I still prefer to see you as the dagger hanging over us all, Xi.

  15. - Top - End - #45
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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Yu-Gi-Oh!

    Quote Originally Posted by Murska View Post
    Hello all. Been a while.

    Plays down a forest, then Sol Ring, then Golgari Signet. Wait... that's not right. Just plays Hedge Fund and ices up HQ and RnD instead. Let's hope they facecheck into an Akhet.

    Hm. That's enough single votes. Time to pile on some pressure. CaoimhinTheCape for both having a vote already and having already posted. Also for random voting.
    Slight townread for trying to get town out of "single random vote" territory? Although Murska is more than good enough of a player to do that as a wolf.

    Quote Originally Posted by Apogee1 View Post
    I cast pot of greed
    It allows me to draw two wolfreads from my head

    Elenna

    Super thin but the "(RNG)" in parenthesis post random vote felt kinda well awkwardly justified

    Also thought Cao's response to Murska could be overblown at a stretch
    Quote Originally Posted by Apogee1 View Post
    Jeen I can guess somewhat as to what your plan is. Have you considered how the vortexer interacts with it (in the -- in my opinion likely -- case that wolves have a vortexer)?
    I like Apogee looking for wolfreads (even if he's wrong about me ) and pointing out the vortexer issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by totadileplayz View Post
    So then cross-checking we try to look at the townie roles and see what ones makes it a logical play.
    the only logical result would be Mai Verbatim the only one that relies on them being targeted.
    Hmm I don't think Jeen is right about wolf!totadile trying to sabotage their plan (mostly because I still don't think Jeen's plan would work, so no sabotage needed), but I will agree that public speculation on townie roles doesn't look good.
    I'm Chaotic Good! Ish!

  16. - Top - End - #46
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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Yu-Gi-Oh!

    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    6. Is Tea limited to "activated" abilities? E.g., could she take Duke Devlin's passive "don't die once" power?
    JL either knew and forgot, or always knew and was pretending not to.

    I'm inclined to gove a bit of townie cred here. I think it's a bad townie move to forget which role is which (or lie about which role is which) when presenting your D1 plan, but it's an even worse move for a wolf faking townieness because it damages your credibility from the get-go.
    Last edited by AvatarVecna; 2021-05-07 at 09:46 AM.


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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Yu-Gi-Oh!

    I find it a bit amusing that people are stating they don't want to wagon me day one because I haven't been around for a long time... rather than, you know, because they don't think I'm a wolf.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lamech View Post
    Trusting Murska worked out great!
    Quote Originally Posted by happyturtle View Post
    A Murska without lies is like a day without sunshine.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xihirli View Post
    I say we completely leave our fate in the hands of the trustworthy Murska and continue in complete safety.

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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Yu-Gi-Oh!

    Quote Originally Posted by Xihirli View Post
    I'll extend it if we're waiting on people but my goal is 24 hours.
    24 hours from the time of this post, or 24 hours from the start of the thread?

    EDIT: Wait, it's been exactly 24 hours since start of thread. Sooo...that's extremely relevant information.
    Last edited by AvatarVecna; 2021-05-07 at 09:52 AM.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Maat Mons View Post
    Everyone knows Wizards only become adventurers because it's the fastest way to get more Wizard levels.

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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Yu-Gi-Oh!

    Quote Originally Posted by Elenna View Post
    I'm still very confused by what your plan is here. The "finding the true seer" part won't work if they're vortexed away from you. And I'm not quite sure how you plan to catch Diabound, unless your plan is that everyone Dark Magician Girl saw should publically claim? Which seems sketchy. But how else would Dark Magician Girl distinguish between Diabound and amyone else?
    DMG = Dark Magician Girl. I'm tired of writing that out.

    I don't want to answer this too fully -- I wrote up a lot of IF-THEN scenarios then deleted them -- but I think there's still merit. How much, or how many, players should claim should depend on a few factors, and might change based on info-reveals from the D1 lynch and N1 kill. Remember Bakura knows some safe fake-claims, but they aren't necessarily ones with easy powers to fake.

    Really, it seems that, if DMG is in play, we get useful info as long as DMG and the seers target me. Me being killed or the targeting being vortexed away limits/delays some information, but it's still useful (and keeps the wolves from screwing up other folk).
    If DMG is not in play, plan is still useful, but me dying makes the info-sharing more difficult. At the least, the fool and seer should know what Role they really are if I die. (Note that, for me to die, I need to NOT be vortexed, since otherwise Zorc's kill would be redirected. Right?)

    Though to make sure I'm not misunderstanding another power interaction:
    With how the vortexer works...
    If, for example, DMG, Ishtar, Marik, and Diabound target me to redirect to Elenna, then DMG, Ishtar, and Marik will target Elenna.
    Diabound also shows up as targeting Elenna, since they target two players.
    DMG sees that 3 players targeted Elenna. Presumably, she can guess that they are Ishtar, Marik, and Diabound.
    Does that fit folks' interpretation of the power? Xihirli, are you willing to confirm if that would be correct (assuming no other players interfere with targeting)?

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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Yu-Gi-Oh!

    Quote Originally Posted by Murska View Post
    I find it a bit amusing that people are stating they don't want to wagon me day one because I haven't been around for a long time... rather than, you know, because they don't think I'm a wolf.
    Current meta is to lose politely instead of win rudely.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Maat Mons View Post
    Everyone knows Wizards only become adventurers because it's the fastest way to get more Wizard levels.

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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Yu-Gi-Oh!

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    24 hours from the time of this post, or 24 hours from the start of the thread?

    EDIT: Wait, it's been exactly 24 hours since start of thread. Sooo...that's extremely relevant information.
    48 hours from start of thread will end M1. 72 hours from start of thread will end M2.

    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    If, for example, DMG, Ishtar, Marik, and Diabound target me to redirect to Elenna, then DMG, Ishtar, and Marik will target Elenna.
    Diabound also shows up as targeting Elenna, since they target two players.
    DMG sees that 3 players targeted Elenna. Presumably, she can guess that they are Ishtar, Marik, and Diabound.
    Does that fit folks' interpretation of the power? Xihirli, are you willing to confirm if that would be correct (assuming no other players interfere with targeting)?
    Chain link
    "Diabound" targets Elenna and JeenLeen. Everything else that targets JeenLeen targets Elenna, as "Diabound" possesses the fastest power in the game, with "Blue-Eyes White Dragon" a close second.
    "Ishizu Ishtar" targets JeenLeen and gets their target swapped to Elenna. "Marik Ishtar" targets Jeenleen and gets their target swapped to Elenna. "Dark Magician Girl" targets JeenLeen and gets their target swapped to Elenna. "Dark Magician Girl" sees the player names for "Marik Ishtar," "Ishizu Ishtar," and "Diabound."
    Spoiler: Quotes
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zar Peter View Post
    Supagoof took the most blows and incidentally took exactly the same damage Xihirli inflicted.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silent_Interim View Post
    Xihirli: Being a better target since 2015.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elenna View Post
    Xihirli, bastion of murder and betrayal.
    Quote Originally Posted by BasketOfPuppies View Post
    Wow I missed a lot today. So, kill Xihirli?
    Quote Originally Posted by Iceseer View Post
    I really wanted what Xihirli said to be true though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    If Xi and I agree some more, I will start to doubt my own alignment!
    Quote Originally Posted by flat_footed View Post
    I still prefer to see you as the dagger hanging over us all, Xi.

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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Yu-Gi-Oh!

    Quote Originally Posted by Xihirli View Post
    Chain link
    "Diabound" targets Elenna and JeenLeen. Everything else that targets JeenLeen targets Elenna, as "Diabound" possesses the fastest power in the game, with "Blue-Eyes White Dragon" a close second.
    "Ishizu Ishtar" targets JeenLeen and gets their target swapped to Elenna. "Marik Ishtar" targets Jeenleen and gets their target swapped to Elenna. "Dark Magician Girl" targets JeenLeen and gets their target swapped to Elenna. "Dark Magician Girl" sees the player names for "Marik Ishtar," "Ishizu Ishtar," and "Diabound."
    If Diabound and Zorc target me and Elenna as above, would I die or Elenna die?

    - - - Updated - - -

    This reminds me of the timing rules for a few things. Bottomless Trap Hole had some funky timing issues, especially with Exiled Force priority and things like the Monarchs' activating when summoned.

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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Yu-Gi-Oh!

    Bottomless doesn't negate, and priority isn't in the game anymore. A monster whose ability activates on summon still activates, Bottomless just also destroys/banishes it.

    Elenna would die.
    Spoiler: Quotes
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zar Peter View Post
    Supagoof took the most blows and incidentally took exactly the same damage Xihirli inflicted.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silent_Interim View Post
    Xihirli: Being a better target since 2015.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elenna View Post
    Xihirli, bastion of murder and betrayal.
    Quote Originally Posted by BasketOfPuppies View Post
    Wow I missed a lot today. So, kill Xihirli?
    Quote Originally Posted by Iceseer View Post
    I really wanted what Xihirli said to be true though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    If Xi and I agree some more, I will start to doubt my own alignment!
    Quote Originally Posted by flat_footed View Post
    I still prefer to see you as the dagger hanging over us all, Xi.

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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Yu-Gi-Oh!

    Quote Originally Posted by Xihirli View Post
    "Ishizu Ishtar" targets JeenLeen and gets their target swapped to Elenna. "Marik Ishtar" targets Jeenleen and gets their target swapped to Elenna. "Dark Magician Girl" targets JeenLeen and gets their target swapped to Elenna. "Dark Magician Girl" sees the player names for "Marik Ishtar," "Ishizu Ishtar," and "Diabound."
    Note sure if I even want Xi to answer this publicly, but DMG (if she's there) should think about if their power says "JeenLeen was targeted by <name>, <name>..." or "<name>, <name> targeted your target."
    E.g., check if your power tells you who you ended up targeting or not. I assume it would, and so you'd know if you're redirected, but, well... useful to think on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xihirli View Post
    and priority isn't in the game anymore
    Blasphemy!
    Though, yeah, that probably simplifies things a ton.

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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Yu-Gi-Oh!

    Quote Originally Posted by Murska View Post
    Well, I want to see larger vote movement to get discussion and actual lynch pressure around, and I did mention that totaldileplayz felt slightly off, so I'll join my first townread on this wagon. This is three votes, fully enough to get someone killed, so if you people want someone else to get killed instead I suggest making an effort.
    I'm fine with a totadile lynch, but there's enough people on them, for now I'm thinking I'll stay on rogue for a competing wagon.
    I'm Chaotic Good! Ish!

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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Yu-Gi-Oh!

    I think it's pretty pointless having a wagon on an inactive. They're not defending themselves, so there's nothing to learn.
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    Trusting Murska worked out great!
    Quote Originally Posted by happyturtle View Post
    A Murska without lies is like a day without sunshine.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xihirli View Post
    I say we completely leave our fate in the hands of the trustworthy Murska and continue in complete safety.

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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Yu-Gi-Oh!

    rogue_alchemist is inactive quite often so no surprises there.
    Last edited by Book Wombat; 2021-05-07 at 02:24 PM.
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    Default DM: Werewolf/Mafia: Yu-Gi-Oh!

    So, I don't plan to move my vote until we get a check in or somebody actually looks suspicious.

    Thoughts so far (written as I read through. If it is disjointed more than summarized, that is why):

    Elenna will probably ping on me until I get used to them being town. No idea what they are but they ping wolf for me. But that's more a "this is how they talk when they are a wolf!" but they are a wolf really really often so it might just be "this is how they talk!" *Null read*

    Totadileplayz is new for me. Maybe not new because I've been gone a while. That might be useful to know. If they are new, then their comment about not likely to figure much out might be newbie talk. Otherwise, it feels more like wolf covering themselves thinking.

    Murska fits the same "I'm not sure how new they are" vein. But after only four hours from the opening vote and like half the people having checked in, they are already really eager to try to get some wagons started. This stands out. Anyone played with them enough that they know if this is normal for them? Its not necessarily positive or negative unless its different than normal. Just felt fast for me. They also seemed quick to jump on Jeenleen being good. I also love the defense of "a wolf would be to smart to make this play" argument they made because that is exactly how I would justify a wolf strategy if I was a wolf. Again, someone who has played with them, feel free to weigh in but for now I'm going FOS while I wait for RA to post.

    Jeenleen came up with a whole big plan that involves lots of people targetting them. They said that what they said may have given away their role but I don't really see what that might be. I have my conspiracy theories but I'm leaning towards a few roles I'm guessing.

    BatCatHat went for the the "i'm voting you for voting me" it seems. Don't know how they play.

    Apogee1 should be noted as having sort of defended Cape some. Only matters if one is revealed as a wolf.

    Spoiler: Quotes Being Referenced
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    Quote Originally Posted by totadileplayz View Post
    I'll vote Batcathat for now. Not likely we'll figure out much for right now.
    Quote Originally Posted by Murska View Post
    Hello all. Been a while.

    Plays down a forest, then Sol Ring, then Golgari Signet. Wait... that's not right. Just plays Hedge Fund and ices up HQ and RnD instead. Let's hope they facecheck into an Akhet.

    Hm. That's enough single votes. Time to pile on some pressure. CaoimhinTheCape for both having a vote already and having already posted. Also for random voting.
    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    I had thought up a tricky gambit that relied on a fake-claim, but I found a better one that should work without me lying.

    I think I found a way to either get a strong town network, relatively trusted, as of Day 2, perhaps with a verified seer. And/or I'll catch a wolf.
    Blue Eyes, if you exist, please do not target me.
    I reckon Tea exists since she is the baner. Please target me. Part of this plan works even if I die, but it'd be more fruitful if I'm alive.
    Seer(s), please target me. If both Marik and Ishtar are in play, and you both target me, unless by very bad odds Marik gets RNGed my Role, we'll know the real seer. It'll be a bummer for neither of you to get a wolf tonight, but at least you'll know your results are valid/invalid for future nights.
    Dark Magician Girl, not sure if it'd help or not for you to target me, but you might serve as a backup if I die. And maybe you'll catch Zorc by process of elimination.

    If I'm alive D2, I probably will not claim my Role. I might have said enough to give it away -- trying not to, but not sure -- but I don't want to make it too easy for the wolves to fake being a seer. Or at least I want them to waste Bakura's scry on me instead of someone else, if they're gonna learn it.
    But I will claim if one of the seers says what result they got on me, to verify it and their powers. Or, well, if they're the fool, I may just say they're the fool.

    Want to put this out here early in the Day. There's no votes on me currently, but I don't want it to sound like self-defense if a wagon does move onto me.
    I'd spell out my plan more, but I think there's both good and bad reasons for wolf/wolves to target me, and I don't want to make it easy for them to guess whether I want them to or not.
    Quote Originally Posted by Murska View Post
    Okay, some initial impressions: JeenLeen is good. The post from totadileplayz reads very iffy to me, like they are just saying something to get words out there without any actual intent.
    Quote Originally Posted by Apogee1 View Post
    I tend to agree with the latter line, and think the "Honestly that's fair" into walking back the comment is moderately wolfy.

    I'm not sure the extra if anything is something that like you can apply the wolves-edit-posts tell to. Almost think its the opposite, where a sentence was being constructed to look neutral and/or open and the if-anything double piled up because of that. Though yes, not a read I'll hinge a ton on (the above though, yes).
    Quote Originally Posted by Murska View Post
    You really think a wolf would make a play like that, this early? I can see a wolf planning a fancy deception beforehand to get out the gate with, but then I'd imagine it would be well thought out. And mostly wolves just want to lay low and say little of any use.


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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Yu-Gi-Oh!

    Quote Originally Posted by Elenna View Post
    I'm fine with a totadile lynch, but there's enough people on them, for now I'm thinking I'll stay on rogue for a competing wagon.
    Quote Originally Posted by Book Wombat View Post
    rogue_alchemist is inactive quite often so no surprises there.
    Quote Originally Posted by gac3 View Post
    So, I don't plan to move my vote until we get a check in or somebody actually looks suspicious.

    Thoughts so far (written as I read through. If it is disjointed more than summarized, that is why):

    Elenna will probably ping on me until I get used to them being town. No idea what they are but they ping wolf for me. But that's more a "this is how they talk when they are a wolf!" but they are a wolf really really often so it might just be "this is how they talk!" *Null read*

    Totadileplayz is new for me. Maybe not new because I've been gone a while. That might be useful to know. If they are new, then their comment about not likely to figure much out might be newbie talk. Otherwise, it feels more like wolf covering themselves thinking.

    Murska fits the same "I'm not sure how new they are" vein. But after only four hours from the opening vote and like half the people having checked in, they are already really eager to try to get some wagons started. This stands out. Anyone played with them enough that they know if this is normal for them? Its not necessarily positive or negative unless its different than normal. Just felt fast for me. They also seemed quick to jump on Jeenleen being good. I also love the defense of "a wolf would be to smart to make this play" argument they made because that is exactly how I would justify a wolf strategy if I was a wolf. Again, someone who has played with them, feel free to weigh in but for now I'm going FOS while I wait for RA to post.

    Jeenleen came up with a whole big plan that involves lots of people targetting them. They said that what they said may have given away their role but I don't really see what that might be. I have my conspiracy theories but I'm leaning towards a few roles I'm guessing.

    BatCatHat went for the the "i'm voting you for voting me" it seems. Don't know how they play.

    Apogee1 should be noted as having sort of defended Cape some. Only matters if one is revealed as a wolf.
    In a kind of annoying way, all of these three statements ping a little wolfy to me. In the sense of a townie could say them, but it also sounds a bit here's my read on each of those "if they were a wolf"...

    For Elenna, sounds like how a wolf wanting to protect wolf!totaldileplayz would post, without wanting to stretch out their neck too far. Or possibly prep for moving off wolf!rogue_alchemist if that wagon gets strong.
    Also, like some of her earlier posts, it just feels a tad off to me.
    And those where she was giving legitimate critique and questions about my plan could be a wolf feeling out how much I'm worth dealing with or not.

    Book_Wombat could be trying to protect wolf!rogue_alchemist by a slight defense that would make others less likely to vote them, but not draw a lot of attention.
    But I still lean town given pointing out the flaws in my plan.

    gac3... well, no changing vote, FoS on rogue_alchemist. Any of those statements could be distancing from a scumbuddy. However, I get a fairly Town read from him. While a wolf!gac3 might be wanting to talk some and give commentary to gain towncred, something about the feel of that post doesn't seem to have the carefulness of a wolf deceptively attempting that.

    I didn't quote Murska in this post, but they've also said some things that could be subtle distancing. The only I'm pretty sure is that, if totaldile flips wolf, Murska is probably town. (I say 'probably' because I'm thinking of them on the same level as I think of Xihirli and AV.) I don't see a wolf putting a third vote on a scumbuddy, especially D1.


    ...the D1 paranoia is strong this game. Fitting for something of Xi's creation.

    AV has sometimes done a list of most-to-least wolfy in feel. Here's my list.
    Strong wolf: totaldileplayz, Elenna
    Slight wolf: Cao
    Neutral: everyone else
    Slight town: gac3, Book Wombat
    Strong town; JeenLeen (not just that I know I'm Town since I'm myself, but I think my ploy establishes that well. Though I understand others feel otherwise.)

  30. - Top - End - #60
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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Yu-Gi-Oh!

    Not to be not picky Keen, bit my FOS is on Murska, my vote is on RA.

    Edit: For people who think mistakes like that are wolfy, we now have "Tea is Baner" and this one.
    Last edited by gac3; 2021-05-07 at 03:11 PM.

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