Werewolf/Mafia: Yu-Gi-Oh!

[AvatarVecna]

Out of curiosity, what was the point of saying that AV was Baby Dragon? Why not tell the truth since there was an explanation for her being untargetable N1?

It wasn't known to us at the time that somebody had targeted me N1 and confirmed I was untargetable. Baby Dragon was a safe-ish claim, or at least as safe as any fakeclaim I could have as Zorc.

[JeenLeen]

I essentially had bought that what I thought happened N1 -- which apparently did actually happen -- probably didn't happen. Too far-fetched and crazy a scheme. I expected totaldile to say they scried Valmark as Bakura.
I was also close to buying that AV might've been Magical Hatted Main Phase II, and that's why a Bakura-scry went off on her (and so totaldile or Valmark were Bakura), but Tea's DMG power failed. Was still leaning AV as Zorc, but not as certain as I had earlier been.
On the other hand, power usage being what it is, that sealed the deal.

OH--and wait, if Valmark did scry AV N1, didn't he get "No result"?
I guess once that lie came out, totaldile was doomed, and AV would probably follow soon after.

EDIT: ninja'd by valmark's explanation

[Xihirli]

"Perhaps not, Bakura! But Kisara bought us the time we needed!"
The Pharaoh reached down to the Téa Gardner figure and withdrew a small Cartouche from her. "Because these are not pieces! They are my friends, and they have helped me without me controlling them. And my name is Atem!"
When he said his name, light overtook the darkness, and the Zorc piece lifted both arms to shield himself... but the color drained, and it was nothing but a statue.
"You ingrate! I was nice enough to let you play in my world... and you repay me by rebelling against the master! Death to all players! I'll bury you in eternal night!" Bakura leapt to the top of the table, his body turning to dust as he marched for the Pharaoh's pieces.
"If you want to destroy my friends, you'll have to find them first! I activate... Magical Hats!" And hats appeared over all of his pieces, and over nothing at all, and the hats shuffled around as his trap flipped up. "Guess well, Bakura... but it doesn't look like you have the time to guess twice!"
Bakura stumbled back, eyes bulging. "Curse you... Pharaoh."

The dream faded, and the Pharaoh was back in the Millennium puzzle, clasped safely around Yugi's neck.

Spoiler: Player List

Show

Number	Player	Role	Team
1	AvatarVecna	Zorc Necrophades	Villain
2	BatCatHat	Solomon Moto	Hero
3	Apogee1	Blue-Eyes White Dragon	Hero
4	CaoimhinTheCape	Diabound	Villain
5	Elenna	Dark Magician Girl	Hero
6	totadileplayz	Yami Bakura	Villain
7	JeenLeen	Mai Valentine	Hero
8	rogue_alchemist	Yugi Moto	Hero
9	Gac3	Dark Magician	Hero
10	BookWombat	Teá Gardner	Hero
11	Valmark	Ishizu Ishtar	Hero
12	Murska	Pharaoh ____	Hero

I'll be kinda posting my thoughts in a bit, but discussion's open.

[JeenLeen]

To the last Player List, "Observer" for Mai is a typo, right? Or was I neutral all-along?

I like how, as of D2 starting, I considered that literally everyone except BatHatCat or AvatarVecna was Bakura.

[Batcathat]

It just hit me that my largest mechanical contribution to Town victory was boosting Jeen... and that's only because I tried to boost totadileplayz and they got flipped around. Funny.

Anyhow, really fun game. The last game (which was also my first) was fun as well, but I felt more involved this time (even if it was mostly as Jeen's trusted but not overly contributing sidekick ).

And it took all my self-control not to make a joke right away about how I was the "Experienced Player" of all possible roles.

[AvatarVecna]

OH--and wait, if Valmark did scry AV N1, didn't he get "No result"?
I guess once that lie came out, totaldile was doomed, and AV would probably follow soon after.

From villain chat:

"I targeted JeenLeen in case Apogee was bluffing. But there wasn't really a good option because of the claim made that Valmark scried me successfully when JeenLeen had confirmation of me baned.

Either we kill Valmark, confirming him as seer, which confirms you as a liar for saying his scry on me was successful, and when JeenLeen asks for tge QT where Valmark claimed it, you can't provide evidence for that claim...

...or we don't kill Valmark, in which case JeenLeen asks Valmark for that QT, Valmark uses it to prove his innocence, and you're still caught in a lie.

Only chance I saw: if I target JL and he's not protected, that's town center shifted to a different player and also he can't rat me out. If he's protected, we weren't going to avoid getting caught today no matter what we did."

[Book Wombat]

Thanks everyone for the game!
\(^^)/

[gac3]

Oh wait, we won?

[totadileplayz]

No I'm not sharing any of my qt's. If someone else wants to cool.

[Xihirli]

So... yeah. People can post their QTs at their own discretion, and I've learned a valuable lesson for Yu-Gi-Oh! GX.

Never be afraid of buffing the wolves in an all-power role game! Dark Necrofear would've been fine!

In all honesty I felt bad the second half of the game, because Night 1 (M2 Turn 1) was just absurd. It was just a perfect storm of exactly the wrong things happening for the wolves. The endphase/standby phase divide was there to buff the villains in an all-power role game; I think that should stay.

There were a lot of moving parts and while I couldn't have expected the game-deciding M2, I should have prepared for it. This was a big game for JeenLeen at least, and I hope people enjoyed at least the narrations.

That's the game, it has been decided in favor of Town.

[Book Wombat]

Here's my QT with JeenLeen and later Batcathat.

The narrations were great!

[AvatarVecna]

I think the game would've gone very differently if we'd redirected totadile to RA. Even without knowing he was one of the lovers, having a bunch of powers target an inactive townie would be useless at best. I think the idea was that switching JeenLeen and somebody would prevent JL from being targeted like he wanted, and switching totadile and somebody would prevent the hoard of people targeting totadile from catching him immediately, but this resulted in us trying to do both and that was a bad idea on paper since it has two wolves targeting Mai Valentine N1 and leaving her alive. That three other people got vortexed along with that was just icing on the cake.

EDIT: Which is to say, I still think all 4 wolves would've been too much for this game, but maybe if we'd had Necrofear instead of one of the others it would've worked better? idk

[JeenLeen]

What was the point of totaldile targeting himself and then getting vortexed to me? N1 went exactly as I had hoped, wolf-catching-wise.
Did y'all really think I couldn't use Aroma N1, or was that misdirection?

EDIT: ninja'd by AV

The endphase/standby phase divide was there to buff the villains in an all-power role game; I think that should stay.

I think, now that we've had a game experiencing that unusual ruleset, it'll go smoother.
For example, it took me a while to realize how Magical Hats would interact with a Bakura and Ishizu scry differently.

[Apogee1]

Well AV and totaldile had me fooled

Sometimes actions just resolve the game

[totadileplayz]

What was the point of totaldile targeting himself and then getting vortexed to me? N1 went exactly as I had hoped, wolf-catching-wise.
Did y'all really think I couldn't use Aroma N1, or was that misdirection?

EDIT: ninja'd by AV



I think, now that we've had a game experiencing that unusual ruleset, it'll go smoother.
For example, it took me a while to realize how Magical Hats would interact with a Bakura and Ishizu scry differently.

We wanted to see how vortexing actually works it's a lot less potent if the players know they switched targets.

[Apogee1]

I think Zorc needed an ability besides the NK to have a chance to blend in better. 4 wolves or 3 + convert would have been rough for town I think but wolves having a little more PR power would have been useful I think.

[JeenLeen]

Here's my QT with JeenLeen and later Batcathat.

The narrations were great!

My favorite line from me in this:

I'm going to play dumb with AV and totaldile, and act like I don't realize this. Goes with how sloppy I've been thus far.

I do regret how sloppy I was early game, but it worked out all right in the end.

[gac3]

Okay... I was fooled by totadileplayz but I was just waiting to say we lynch AV. Since it was all gut and no evidence.

[totadileplayz]

I think Zorc needed an ability besides the NK to have a chance to blend in better. 4 wolves or 3 + convert would have been rough for town I think but wolves having a little more PR power would have been useful I think.

1/3 of the players would have been wolves that's not bad, it's actually a good proportion.

[JeenLeen]

I think Zorc needed an ability besides the NK to have a chance to blend in better. 4 wolves or 3 + convert would have been rough for town I think but wolves having a little more PR power would have been useful I think.

Yeah. Would definitely help with fakeclaiming.

[gac3]

1/3 of the players would have been wolves that's not bad, it's actually a good proportion.

Remember that one of them would be able to make a new wolf.


Edit: i think I read something wrong. Ignore tbis

[AvatarVecna]

I'm a little upset that Blue Eyes could steal my kill, but Mai would still get to know I targeted her. The targeting info gets switched for the wolf vortexer, but not for the town vortexer? Uegh.

EDIT: Mind you, not that it would've changed the ultimate result, we were still sinking fast. Just an extra hole in the hull as it were.

[Apogee1]

1/3 of the players would have been wolves that's not bad, it's actually a good proportion.

The issue with 8 v 4 is that if town misses d1 and doesn't get a save off n1, d2 is 6 v 4, which means if town votes out a town again, the game just ends unless there is a save at night. Having to go 4/6 on voting wolves is brutal even with a lot of mech helping out.

With the way this game played out? Maybe it would have been fine, but in general its just very hard.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm a little upset that Blue Eyes could steal my kill, but Mai would still get to know I targeted her. The targeting info gets switched for the wolf vortexer, but not for the town vortexer? Uegh.

EDIT: Mind you, not that it would've changed the ultimate result, we were still sinking fast. Just an extra hole in the hull as it were.

Yeah that was unfortunate imo.

[Xihirli]

One thing that amused me was that Murska pointed suspicion at all three wolves, either privately or publicly, in the one day he got to see and do things.

[totadileplayz]

The issue with 8 v 4 is that if town misses d1 and doesn't get a save off n1, d2 is 6 v 4, which means if town votes out a town again, the game just ends unless there is a save at night. Having to go 4/6 on voting wolves is brutal even with a lot of mech helping out.

With the way this game played out? Maybe it would have been fine, but in general its just very hard.

- - - Updated - - -



Yeah that was unfortunate imo.

Frankly town was too powerful, and had the wrong roles. The Vigilante should have been in the game, there were too many accurate seers, and the booster was ridiculous. And there's another point. Solomon Moto targeted one person, and he could still target the same person the next night.

[AvatarVecna]

1/3 of the players would have been wolves that's not bad, it's actually a good proportion.

If we'd had all four wolf roles, the whole game becomes a single question: do wolves kill the lovers?

Spoiler: Lovers die at some point

Show

N0: 8-4
D1: 7-4
N1: 5-4
D2: 5-3
N2: 4-3
D3: 4-2
N3: 3-2
D4: 3-1
N4: 2-1
D5: 2-0 1-1 because Necrofear got lynched, game over wolves win

It doesn't matter when lovers die or when necrofear gets lynched - if Lovers die ever and a townie is lynched D1, the game is already over even if every other day has seen a wolf get lynched. The only thing that can change this is good targeting on the part of either Lover, and that requires good timing: Pharaoh requires predicting who's going to get mislynched tomorrow, and Yugi requires knowing who's going to get NK'd tomorrow night. Predicting who needs a bane is tough enough when you know all the public info that could possibly affect the NK targeting.

(I guess Kaiba could throw things off too, but he wasn't in this game so)

- - - Updated - - -

One thing that amused me was that Murska pointed suspicion at all three wolves, either privately or publicly, in the one day he got to see and do things.

I knew he fingered both my wolf buddies, and I knew in my heart of hearts that he suspected me too, I just didn't have proof. It does not surprise me at all to hear that Murska's suspicions seriously pinged all three of us before D2 even arrived.

[Valmark]

I think the game would've gone very differently if we'd redirected totadile to RA. Even without knowing he was one of the lovers, having a bunch of powers target an inactive townie would be useless at best. I think the idea was that switching JeenLeen and somebody would prevent JL from being targeted like he wanted, and switching totadile and somebody would prevent the hoard of people targeting totadile from catching him immediately, but this resulted in us trying to do both and that was a bad idea on paper since it has two wolves targeting Mai Valentine N1 and leaving her alive. That three other people got vortexed along with that was just icing on the cake.

EDIT: Which is to say, I still think all 4 wolves would've been too much for this game, but maybe if we'd had Necrofear instead of one of the others it would've worked better? idk

Agreed- with 11 players this would havebeen fine, but on 12 4 wolves or 2+necrofear would probably have been better.

That said, there was a LOT of bad luck in this. If we were to run the exact same game it could go entirely different by changing something like Jeen not choosing CaoimhinTheCape or totadileplayz not lying about AV's role that way.

[Batcathat]

Solomon Moto targeted one person, and he could still target the same person the next night.

How do you mean? I technically could've targetted the same person again (since I targetted you the first night and it bounced to Jeen) but I couldn't boost the same person two nights in a row (I was kinda hoping I could, but I asked and was told my actual target counted, not my intended one).

[totadileplayz]

How do you mean? I technically could've targetted the same person again (since I targetted you the first night and it bounced to Jeen) but I couldn't boost the same person two nights in a row (I was kinda hoping I could, but I asked and was told my actual target counted, not my intended one).

Since jeenleen is saying he was boosted both n1 and n2. Which means you boosted him twice.

[Elenna]

Good game! I liked the narrations, even though I still only sort of understand the story.

Last night was a comedy of errors it seems. So:

The hypocrisy is about murska, not you. I can't just rant about how everybody immediately tries to kill me in half the games I'm in on principle, and then start a D1 wagon on Murska cuz he was that player when I joined. First game back, little bit of a break. I'll consider a wagon on him more seriously starting D2.

This is me trying to minimize odds. This is me trying to get the wolves and the baner to twig onto Murska instead of me as the dangerous player. The fact that it's me saying it, and people know how I get, would help with that. I figured maybe an even chance of the baner targeting me or him, and same for the wolves; that would make it a 1/2 chance the kill gets blocked, as opposed to the 9/108 if it was just completely random. What I didn't anticipate is the baner-lover being inactive. That Murska was the other lover just makes it even worse. Last night's kill is my fault

FWIW I specifically planned to not target Murska N1 because I figured people likely wouldn't kill them N1 since it was their first game in a while.

Also, interesting observations when viewing this with the knowledge that AV is a wolf:
a) N1 sure was a "comedy of errors"... for the wolves. It turned out pretty well for town, actually, albeit in a confusing way.
b) That last line about "Last night's kill is my fault" is practically a textbook example of the way AV keeps saying that wolves are more likely to apologize for town kills.
Hindsight is definitely 20/20 there.

I ran a bunch of games with them playing, and I saw them mention how people get the name wrong so frequently, so I put in effort to get it burned into my brain.

IIRC, HP Werewolf was one of Cao's first games here, and I thought it would be especially awkward for the narrator to mess up the spelling of a player's name, so I triple-checked all my narrations. Pretty sure that burned Caoimhin's spelling into my brain. (Also my tablet brings it up as a suggested word, with the correct spelling )

I'm glad I followed my gut when choosing who to target with Sage's Stone (Dark Magician Girl's power).

Also, this is my first game where I stayed alive and won, yay!

Nice job! I had planned to not target AV, because I feel like the last couple times I got a watcher/lookout type role I targeted AV N1 and literally nobody else targeted them. Probably would have targeted Jeen or totaldile N1. I'm not sure if that would have made matters better or worse...