A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2
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  1. - Top - End - #421
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    Default Re: Fallout X: Back after those messages

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hall View Post
    Oh, sweet monkey, some of those Super Mutant Overlords. I remember breaking an assault rifle shooting one of them. Just magazine after magazine till the thing was dead.
    The Metal Blaster or Terrible Shotgun was the only practical way to handle the DLC enemies in Fallout 3. Built for crit damage and sneak and do massive stealth crits. Lever Action Rifle was okay as well.

    Automatic weapons in both Fallout 3 and 4 are super inefficient because of the way crit damage works in 3 and armour works in 4. You want to go for crit multiplier in 3 and single hit damage in 4.

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    Default Re: Fallout X: Back after those messages

    Quote Originally Posted by GloatingSwine View Post
    The Metal Blaster or Terrible Shotgun was the only practical way to handle the DLC enemies in Fallout 3. Built for crit damage and sneak and do massive stealth crits. Lever Action Rifle was okay as well.

    Automatic weapons in both Fallout 3 and 4 are super inefficient because of the way crit damage works in 3 and armour works in 4. You want to go for crit multiplier in 3 and single hit damage in 4.
    Automatic weapons were super inefficient in F:NV as well due to how DT worked per round. Which also nerfed shotguns unless you had Shotgun Surgeon and maybe Signature Weapon mods to reduce DT.
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  3. - Top - End - #423
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    Default Re: Fallout X: Back after those messages

    You could work with automatics in NV but you burned a lot of AP ammo to do it.
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  4. - Top - End - #424
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    Default Re: Fallout X: Back after those messages

    Quote Originally Posted by Triaxx View Post
    You could work with automatics in NV but you burned a lot of AP ammo to do it.
    Or you could drop JSP into Christine's CoS Sniper Rifle and one-shot deathclaws and supermutants from stealth. Or use the Survivalist's Rifle, assuming you can keep yourself supplied with the harder to find and more expensive 12.7mm ammo, and dakka things down with one of the highest base damage weapons in the game.

    I mean, you're not wrong that it is possible, just like it is possible to use an automatic weapon in FO4, especially if you get the explosive legendary affix. But I think your statement just goes to show how inefficient automatics were, because it required you burning a ton of expensive AP ammo.

    Even the Minigun which uses the pretty amazing 5mm ammo that has a base -10 DT modifier on the ammo isn't really all that good because the base damage is so low you're just chewing through regular ammo instead of AP ammo. Granted, 5mm is pretty easy to make, especially with the Hand Loader perk (break down all the surplus ammo you find, and you can also break down the surplus 5.56 for the Small Rifle Primers, lead, and powder... basically everything you need but the casings themselves), but because of the low base damage of the weapon itself you're still chewing through a ton of ammo just to kill random mobs.

    Then there's the Assault Carbine, also chambered in 5mm, that does the same damage per shot as the unique variant of the minigun (albeit slower RoF) which weighs far less and has lower requirements to use effectively. The only problem is that, in vanilla, the GRA variant that has more mods available to it isn't affected by the Grunt perk, which kind of feels bad, man. Of course, as usual for Bethesda games, There's A Mod For That(tm). YUP I believe does this fix natively so you don't have to go download a separate grunt perk fix mod anymore.

    And of course, not every automatic has an AP ammo variant. The .45 SMG from Honest Hearts, for example, has at best the .45 Super which has a 1.3x damage multiplier and -4 DT at a cost of a 2.5x multiplier on condition degradation. Meaning it runs on both ammo and repair kits, since it will be starting to jam after a dozen or so drum mags run through it.

    Of note for automatic weapons is the K9000 and FIDO. The former runs .357 ammo, which includes the JFP ammo with -3 DT modifier and bonus damage, and the latter runs .44 which includes the SWC that has a -6 DT modifier. Of course, keeping your Goodest Boi fed might be a challenge, .357 and .44 aren't exactly the most common ammo types around, but their (relatively) high base damage makes them more effective generally speaking. Plus they both have a pretty decent sight so they're fairly accurate even at range.
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  5. - Top - End - #425
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    Default Re: Fallout X: Back after those messages

    Quote Originally Posted by ShneekeyTheLost View Post
    Or you could drop JSP into Christine's CoS Sniper Rifle and one-shot deathclaws and supermutants from stealth. Or use the Survivalist's Rifle, assuming you can keep yourself supplied with the harder to find and more expensive 12.7mm ammo, and dakka things down with one of the highest base damage weapons in the game.
    I miss the ability to make ammo in FO4. Saving brass and refilling it feels very post-apocalyptic.
    The Cranky Gamer
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  6. - Top - End - #426
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    Default Re: Fallout X: Back after those messages

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hall View Post
    I miss the ability to make ammo in FO4. Saving brass and refilling it feels very post-apocalyptic.
    I thought the Machinist DLC gave you the ability to manufacture your own ammo in the form of ammo factories in town? Or was that a mod or something?
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  7. - Top - End - #427
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    Default Re: Fallout X: Back after those messages

    Wasteland Workshop added that. But i also had a mod to allow better ammo and on the fly ammo switching

    Wierdly if you wanted to feed the minigun you had to play nice with the Khans becausd they're the best source of 5mm in the game. 5.56 and .308 are both more readily available from Bardon in the Dam.

    .308 and .357 are of course infinite if you're willing to do Dead Money.
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  8. - Top - End - #428
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    Default Re: Fallout X: Back after those messages

    The WW factories are annoyingly slow to use compared to workbenches, and trying to actually automate the process is more frustrating than anything else. I would rather have NV style ammo crafting in FO4 than the factories.

    IMO the best way to get ammo in FO4 is the eyebot pods from the Mechanist. Send out four or five to find ammo and you can get a decent haul, albeit with a bit of a run around. 'Course I usually use them for fusion cores, so the rate of return on normal bullets might be lower than I remember.
    Sanity is nice to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there.

  9. - Top - End - #429
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    Default Re: Fallout X: Back after those messages

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim Portent View Post
    The WW factories are annoyingly slow to use compared to workbenches, and trying to actually automate the process is more frustrating than anything else. I would rather have NV style ammo crafting in FO4 than the factories.

    IMO the best way to get ammo in FO4 is the eyebot pods from the Mechanist. Send out four or five to find ammo and you can get a decent haul, albeit with a bit of a run around. 'Course I usually use them for fusion cores, so the rate of return on normal bullets might be lower than I remember.
    I wish you could delegate your "inactive" followers to do these small scale busywork missions.

  10. - Top - End - #430
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    Default Re: Fallout X: Back after those messages

    Quote Originally Posted by Cikomyr2 View Post
    I wish you could delegate your "inactive" followers to do these small scale busywork missions.
    I'd have loved something like expeditions... "Ok, guys, go dismantle houses in Concord."

    But, in games with a lot of possible companions, I always wish I could have them do more than stand around.
    The Cranky Gamer
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  11. - Top - End - #431
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    Default Re: Fallout X: Back after those messages

    I add mods to my game, so actually making bullets and stuff is way easier for me, but yeah, WW stuff is kind of slow.
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    Default Re: Fallout X: Back after those messages

    Quote Originally Posted by Triaxx View Post
    Wasteland Workshop added that. But i also had a mod to allow better ammo and on the fly ammo switching

    Wierdly if you wanted to feed the minigun you had to play nice with the Khans becausd they're the best source of 5mm in the game. 5.56 and .308 are both more readily available from Bardon in the Dam.

    .308 and .357 are of course infinite if you're willing to do Dead Money.
    Oh yea, forgot about .357 being a vendor recipe in DM. The .308 ammo vendor recipe is pretty much the only reason I bother with DM unless I'm doing an energy weapon run in which case the Holorifle and its respective ammo vendor recipe are the reason.

    I do like AWOP-DM in that it adds additional ammo vendor recipes, including .50, 12.7mm, .44, and .45. Of course, you have to deal with AWOP difficulty levels to get them, so trade-off.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Underlord View Post
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    Joker Bard - the DM's solution to the Batman Wizard.
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  13. - Top - End - #433
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    Default Re: Fallout X: Back after those messages

    AWOP-DM areas are significantly more crash prone I find. But totally worth it. I think there's also a 12ga ammo recipe as well.
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  14. - Top - End - #434
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    Default Re: Fallout X: Back after those messages

    So, still playing FO4, but, really, I keep missing things about NV.
    The Cranky Gamer
    *It isn't realism, it's verisimilitude; the appearance of truth within the framework of the game.
    *Picard management tip: Debate honestly. The goal is to arrive at the truth, not at your preconception.
    *Two Tales of Tellene, available from DriveThruFiction
    *The One Deck Engine: Gaming on a budget
    Written by Me on DriveThru RPG
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  15. - Top - End - #435
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    Default Re: Fallout X: Back after those messages

    I'm just waiting for Fallout 4: New Vegas to come out, it should be here by the time Fallout 5 drops.

  16. - Top - End - #436
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    Default Re: Fallout X: Back after those messages

    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
    I'm just waiting for Fallout 4: New Vegas to come out, it should be here by the time Fallout 5 drops.
    I didn't realize it until just now, but I'm actually just kinda....over Fallout. I don't think it's really worth revisiting the series without some sort of massive overhaul.

    Between the various Fallouts and Elder Scrolls I'm realizing that I've probably sunk well over 1,000 hours into what is essentially the same game with a few different skins and weapons and I just don't have any interest in it anymore.

    Maybe I'm just in a mood and I'll have more interest in the games later.
    Last edited by Anteros; 2022-05-26 at 06:58 PM.

  17. - Top - End - #437
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    Default Re: Fallout X: Back after those messages

    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
    I'm just waiting for Fallout 4: New Vegas to come out, it should be here by the time Fallout 5 drops.
    After Microsoft purchased Bethesda, they'll probably want to make sure the games they publish are actually, yanno, stable on release. So Fallout 5 is probably gonna be pushed back even further, meaning the team doing F4:NV actually has a chance to catch up!
    Quote Originally Posted by The Underlord View Post
    All hail great Shneekeythulhu! Ia Ia Shneeky fthagn
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    Quite possibly, the best rebuttal I have ever witnessed.
    Joker Bard - the DM's solution to the Batman Wizard.
    Takahashi no Onisan - The scariest Samurai alive
    Incarnum and YOU: a reference guide
    Soulmelds, by class and slot: Another Incarnum reference
    Multiclassing for Newbies: A reference guide for the rest of us

    My homebrew world in progress: Falcora

  18. - Top - End - #438
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
    I'm just waiting for Fallout 4: New Vegas to come out, it should be here by the time Fallout 5 drops.
    Not sure if this is a joke about Bethesda releases or the slow dev cycle of gigantic mods?

    Quote Originally Posted by ShneekeyTheLost View Post
    After Microsoft purchased Bethesda, they'll probably want to make sure the games they publish are actually, yanno, stable on release. So Fallout 5 is probably gonna be pushed back even further, meaning the team doing F4:NV actually has a chance to catch up!
    Bold of you to assume Fallout 5 is even a thought in anyone's mind. I like Fallout and it is probably my most consistent non-fantasy game world, but I feel they "owe" us an Elder Scrolls 6 before FO 5.
    Last edited by Spore; 2022-05-27 at 07:23 AM.

  19. - Top - End - #439
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    Default Re: Fallout X: Back after those messages

    Quote Originally Posted by Spore View Post
    Not sure if this is a joke about Bethesda releases or the slow dev cycle of gigantic mods?
    F4:NV is an actual project, from what a google search tells me. and both of those are slow. doesn't seem like a joke in either sense if there is no exaggeration to it.
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  20. - Top - End - #440
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    Default Re: Fallout X: Back after those messages

    Well, since Starfield's pushed back, assume another 5 years for ES6, then they can start thinking on F5.
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  21. - Top - End - #441
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    Default Re: Fallout X: Back after those messages

    Quote Originally Posted by Triaxx View Post
    Well, since Starfield's pushed back, assume another 5 years for ES6, then they can start thinking on F5.
    Seems unreasonably optimistic. It's been 11 years since Skyrim. I very much doubt we get 2 games in the next decade, much less 5 years.

  22. - Top - End - #442
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    Default Re: Fallout X: Back after those messages

    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    Between the various Fallouts and Elder Scrolls I'm realizing that I've probably sunk well over 1,000 hours into what is essentially the same game with a few different skins and weapons and I just don't have any interest in it anymore.
    Only 1,000 hours? I'm pretty sure I spent that long in ES4 alone, ES5 is probably catching up (but only slowly), and I've played single player Fallout from 3 onwards for probably hundreds. I had a stroke in 2004 so I do have plenty of spare time.
    The end of what Son? The story? There is no end. There's just the point where the storytellers stop talking.

  23. - Top - End - #443
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    Quote Originally Posted by halfeye View Post
    Only 1,000 hours? I'm pretty sure I spent that long in ES4 alone, ES5 is probably catching up (but only slowly), and I've played single player Fallout from 3 onwards for probably hundreds. I had a stroke in 2004 so I do have plenty of spare time.
    Probably less. Steam says I have 100 hours on Fallout 3, 4, and Skyrim individually. It doesn't list New Vegas for some reason but I'd guess it's slightly more than the others. Probably about the same with Oblivion and Morrowind each. So maybe 600 or 700 hours total?

    Honestly, I feel like I saw pretty much everything these games had to offer. I'm not sure what people could possibly be doing when they spend 1,000 hours on each of them unless they're just rerunning the same content. Which is fine, but I typically prefer to move on to something new.

  24. - Top - End - #444
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    Default Re: Fallout X: Back after those messages

    Steam times are wierd and may not be perfectly accurate. That said why a thousand hours? Running different character builds. Sure it's easy to save the world as a Breton Stealth archer through the power of terminal back problems and immunity to magic. Or you could run around as a melee only sword and board orc. The most powerful wizard Skyrim has ever seen? And hang on did that Orc drop off a word wall and assassinate a dragon with a dagger? Yes, yes he did.

    And then we have mods to completely and totally rework base mechanics of the game. Oh noes I am overloaded, if only I could put all of my stuff in this container, slap a beacon on it and have the settlers come collect it for me! Or jump out of this Vertibird! Oh no! Hordes of Ghouls and I am out of Assault Rifle ammo! Time to swap to my handy-dandy under barrel flamer.

    Or new adventures. A New DLC dropped? No challenge for my seasoned adventurer. Or I could take a new character in and experience it at level.

    Or mods. Someguy added another hundred hours to New Vegas alone between Bounties it's two sequels, inter quel and sidequel, plus two companions. And a companion in Skyrim. Plus all the other companions. Vilja, Inigio, Willow, Delilah.

    And dipping back to Skyrim you have things like Interesting NPC's and Legacy of the Dragonborn. Rigmor, Dog City Denver, Beyond Boulder Dome, Falskaar, Wyrmstooth, Maxwell's World. Beyond Skyrim... The list quite literally goes on and on.

    The trick is figuring out how to spend less than 1k hours.
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  25. - Top - End - #445
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    Default Re: Fallout X: Back after those messages

    Quote Originally Posted by Spore View Post
    Not sure if this is a joke about Bethesda releases or the slow dev cycle of gigantic mods?
    Raziere's right that it's about both, but wrong about it not being a joke. Or at least, I was serious about the timeline but it's too inherently amusing to not be a joke.

  26. - Top - End - #446
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    Default Re: Fallout X: Back after those messages

    Quote Originally Posted by Triaxx View Post
    Steam times are wierd and may not be perfectly accurate. That said why a thousand hours? Running different character builds. Sure it's easy to save the world as a Breton Stealth archer through the power of terminal back problems and immunity to magic. Or you could run around as a melee only sword and board orc. The most powerful wizard Skyrim has ever seen? And hang on did that Orc drop off a word wall and assassinate a dragon with a dagger? Yes, yes he did.

    And then we have mods to completely and totally rework base mechanics of the game. Oh noes I am overloaded, if only I could put all of my stuff in this container, slap a beacon on it and have the settlers come collect it for me! Or jump out of this Vertibird! Oh no! Hordes of Ghouls and I am out of Assault Rifle ammo! Time to swap to my handy-dandy under barrel flamer.

    Or new adventures. A New DLC dropped? No challenge for my seasoned adventurer. Or I could take a new character in and experience it at level.

    Or mods. Someguy added another hundred hours to New Vegas alone between Bounties it's two sequels, inter quel and sidequel, plus two companions. And a companion in Skyrim. Plus all the other companions. Vilja, Inigio, Willow, Delilah.

    And dipping back to Skyrim you have things like Interesting NPC's and Legacy of the Dragonborn. Rigmor, Dog City Denver, Beyond Boulder Dome, Falskaar, Wyrmstooth, Maxwell's World. Beyond Skyrim... The list quite literally goes on and on.

    The trick is figuring out how to spend less than 1k hours.
    I mean, if you guys say so. It's obviously not a super rare opinion so I'd be hard pressed to argue that you're wrong. I just feel like I did do all that stuff, including a lot of those mods, but in much less time. I'm not disparaging your experience, but it's not for me. I don't have that kind of attention span for a single game. Even games like Subnautica or Terraria that I absolutely love and feel like I've played to death only clock in around 300 hours.

    I've never had much interest in running entirely different characters for different builds though. If I want to play as a mage I just play as one, and if I feel like switching over to 2 handed warrior or whatever...I do that. There's no real reason to start another character outside of personal preference or roleplay, neither of which appeal to me personally.

    If anything though, my Steam numbers on these games are over-inflated. I have a tendency to leave games running when I'm not actually playing them. Either minimized while I'm online, or while I'm at work.
    Last edited by Anteros; 2022-05-27 at 08:59 PM.

  27. - Top - End - #447
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    Default Re: Fallout X: Back after those messages

    Yeah that's fair. Some games are harder to easily swap builds. If you've taken a bunch of gun perks in Fallout Nv you can hit things with a shovel but it's way harder than shooting people.
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