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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    Default Re: Fallout X: Back after those messages

    Quote Originally Posted by Triaxx View Post
    I think Open Season overrides Power Play starting.
    You still get a quest to re-start Nuka-World's power if you slaughter all the raiders, at least if you've claimed all the other parks already, because I got that. Obviously the "unhappy" faction aren't there to stop you because they're all dead, so you only have the ghouls in the power plant to worry about.

  2. - Top - End - #32
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    Default Re: Fallout X: Back after those messages

    Does anyone else think that the Fallout series should have some Fear effect programmed into it?

    Like, if some guy walks up with a deathclaw's finger bones tapped to his knuckles, scratches a raider so hard he explodes into gore, then crouches down and starts eating raider chunks... Mayhaps that raider's friends should think twice about engaging with this fellow.

    Now, obviously that wouldn't work with a dungeon raid or with feral ghoul or the like, but...
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  3. - Top - End - #33
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    Default Re: Fallout X: Back after those messages

    Important to note for a "perfect" run: You cannot give any raiders territory without making Preston leave you on the spot. You can only have one of raiders or Preston. Just to make the choice even dumber.

    This was part of why I gave up on my own Fallout 4 run recently, also the fact that Fallout 4 has bad writing.
    The name is "tonberrian", even when it begins a sentence. It's magic, I ain't gotta 'splain why.

  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Default Re: Fallout X: Back after those messages

    Quote Originally Posted by tonberrian View Post
    Important to note for a "perfect" run: You cannot give any raiders territory without making Preston leave you on the spot. You can only have one of raiders or Preston. Just to make the choice even dumber.

    This was part of why I gave up on my own Fallout 4 run recently, also the fact that Fallout 4 has bad writing.
    You can if you skip Preston entirely, go do Nuka World before rescuing him, then come back after completing Nuka World. He'll give you an opportunity to fix what you've done, and starts Open Season. But that involves jumping through hoops and, arguably, sequence breaking. So YMMV.

    I won't disagree with bad writing, compounded by the attempt at voice acting to limit dialogue even further.
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  5. - Top - End - #35
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    Default Re: Fallout X: Back after those messages

    TBH, the game should give you the option of telling Preston that you were just playing along with the raiders to lull them into a false sense of security so you'd be in a better position to destroy them all, presuming you have actually killed them all. Such an easy thing to add and solves most of the issues.

    He also ought to take into account *how* you claimed that first settlement. If you bribe the occupants into leaving then he ought to be more forgiving than if you just slaughter them.

  6. - Top - End - #36
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    Default Re: Fallout X: Back after those messages

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    Does anyone else think that the Fallout series should have some Fear effect programmed into it?

    Like, if some guy walks up with a deathclaw's finger bones tapped to his knuckles, scratches a raider so hard he explodes into gore, then crouches down and starts eating raider chunks... Mayhaps that raider's friends should think twice about engaging with this fellow.

    Now, obviously that wouldn't work with a dungeon raid or with feral ghoul or the like, but...
    I mean, I see many foes in New Vegas run from me. particularly when I shoot their weapons out of their hands without really meaning to. not that it saves them, because it doesn't.

    ....At least I think I saw them running from me?

    ....I dunno, the fights all blend together.....but I'm pretty sure I've had to use my gun to kill an enemy fleeing from me.
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  7. - Top - End - #37
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    Default Re: Fallout X: Back after those messages

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    I mean, I see many foes in New Vegas run from me. particularly when I shoot their weapons out of their hands without really meaning to. not that it saves them, because it doesn't.

    ....At least I think I saw them running from me?

    ....I dunno, the fights all blend together.....but I'm pretty sure I've had to use my gun to kill an enemy fleeing from me.
    If you shoot a weapon out of someone's hand, they're going to try and grab the nearest weapon. If that weapon is behind them, it will look like they're running away.
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  8. - Top - End - #38
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    Default Re: Fallout X: Back after those messages

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    I mean, I see many foes in New Vegas run from me. particularly when I shoot their weapons out of their hands without really meaning to. not that it saves them, because it doesn't.

    ....At least I think I saw them running from me?

    ....I dunno, the fights all blend together.....but I'm pretty sure I've had to use my gun to kill an enemy fleeing from me.
    One of the things that 3rd Edition D&D took from modern RPGs... including a lot on the computer... was morale mechanics. The enemies just stopped running away, they all fight until they're dead.
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  9. - Top - End - #39
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    Default Re: Fallout X: Back after those messages

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    Does anyone else think that the Fallout series should have some Fear effect programmed into it?

    Like, if some guy walks up with a deathclaw's finger bones tapped to his knuckles, scratches a raider so hard he explodes into gore, then crouches down and starts eating raider chunks... Mayhaps that raider's friends should think twice about engaging with this fellow.

    Now, obviously that wouldn't work with a dungeon raid or with feral ghoul or the like, but...
    Would be kind of pointless from a certain perspective, since most enemies are non-persistant anyway an enemy that flees is not meaningfully different from one that's dead. Would make you feel more badass though, which would be the whole point I suppose.

    It would work on ferals in theory, they were described as fleeing from the BoS when they arrived at the Boston Airport after enough of them got killed. There's also been a few tame ones, so there's still something going on in their brains.


    It would be nice if enemies had a slightly more scripted AI with different responses to certain enemies. Raiders should be bolting for an indoor space when a deathclaw shows up so they can hide and plink away at it from safety, not running at it with tire irons.
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  10. - Top - End - #40
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    Default Re: Fallout X: Back after those messages

    Quote Originally Posted by ShneekeyTheLost View Post
    If you shoot a weapon out of someone's hand, they're going to try and grab the nearest weapon. If that weapon is behind them, it will look like they're running away.
    Yeah, and they know where all the weapons in the zone are, so they can leg it some distance to try and arm themselves, even picking up unique weapons if they're present.


    The Outer Worlds actually does have this effect tied to your Persuade, Lie, and Intimidate skills (Persuade can make an enemy cower briefly when hit, Intimidate can make others flee when you kill one, Lie makes robots briefly attack each other when they hit you)
    Last edited by GloatingSwine; 2021-06-24 at 12:14 PM.

  11. - Top - End - #41
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    Default Re: Fallout X: Back after those messages

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim Portent View Post
    Would be kind of pointless from a certain perspective, since most enemies are non-persistent anyway an enemy that flees is not meaningfully different from one that's dead. Would make you feel more badass though, which would be the whole point I suppose.
    Honestly, I just think it'd be more realistic.

    I mean, you're some raider, bandit, whatever playing Highway Man on some road and you stick up this one guy. He's walking around in like, no shirt and a skirt(Grognack's costume) or something equally ridiculous that woulnd't provide any defensive benefit if it wasn't for RPG mechanics

    You come up to him brandish your weapon, he doesn't surrender or run, so you shoot him. Then he teleports over to your buddy, hits him so hard he ****ing explodes, and then starts eating what's left of him and this causes the wound from your pipe pistol to regenerate before your very eyes.

    This is not a man. This is an inhuman monster.

    The realistic response to anyone with any sense of self-preservation would be to drop everything and run.

    Like, just, certain activities, like say, cannibalizing a corpse in from of human enemies of the same faction, or one-hit killing an enemy, or the like should have chance to scare human or humanlike enemies, and multiple such actions in quick succession should raise the chance.

    The idea that some raiders, for example, are cowards who'll run from someone who puts up enough of a fight, or people just reacting realistically to a bloodthirsty cannibal with superhuman powers, would help with immersion.
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  12. - Top - End - #42
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    Default Re: Fallout X: Back after those messages

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    Got to love the way legendary items get generated in Fallout 4. I've had a Cunning (+1 Per and Agi) left arm since quite early on in the game, quite useful for a stealthy sniper build. I just found another Cunning item while going through the Kiddie Kingdom in Nuka-World. Guess what? It was another ruddy left arm! I mean, it was at least an upgrade for the one I already had, but it would have been *so* much better if it had been a piece I could wear in addition to that one...
    That's part of the reason why I use a legendary crafting mod in Fallout 4 which lets you strip legendary effects off one item and assign them to another. It takes some of the fun of finding that really good legendary item, but it also takes a lot of the frustration out of never finding a useful item.

    Speaking of legendary crafting, guess what's coming to Fallout 76? And as always, it's... well, it's not the literal worst version of it. But it's also implemented in a nonsensical fashion which intentionally keeps players hooked on that little dopamine rush of completely random legendary rolls. You can pay a certain amount of currency to roll legendary effects on an item, but the cost of rerolling legendary effects is exactly the same? And since there's no ability to actually just reroll one effect on an existing weapon without rerolling the entire item, there's basically no point to rerolling an existing item.

    Personally, I'd much rather have a mechanic to reroll or add stars to an item without rerolling all of the effects--that is to say, I could take my chestpiece which has the two first and second stars I want, but a third star I don't, and reroll that just that third star until I have a perfect set. That way, I'm just scrolling through the thirteen third-star effects, instead of trying to nail that one perfect roll out of literally thousands of permutations.

    Oh, speaking of thousands of permutations: They're adding more legendary effects, and some of them are blatantly just bad effects put in to dilute the legendary pool and prevent people from getting what they want. Other effects seem designed to push sale of microtransaction items, like Overeaters, which gives you bonuses when full. And wouldn't you know it, they've started selling MTX items which fill your food and thirst bars and keep them from lowering for an hour? Funny, that.
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  13. - Top - End - #43
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    Default Re: Fallout X: Back after those messages

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim Portent View Post
    Would be kind of pointless from a certain perspective, since most enemies are non-persistant anyway an enemy that flees is not meaningfully different from one that's dead. Would make you feel more badass though, which would be the whole point I suppose.
    Yeah, it's too bad Warner Bros. Is an evil megacorp or we'd have a lot more games that could benefit from the Nemesis system.

  14. - Top - End - #44
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    Default Re: Fallout X: Back after those messages

    If you're playing Fallout 4 for the writing, ignore everything but Far Harbor. It's the best written part of the game.
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    Default Re: Fallout X: Back after those messages

    Quote Originally Posted by Balmas View Post
    fallout seventy-snip
    Are they planning on fixing level scaling or anything like that? You get to level 50 and everything becomes king damage sponge, lord of ammo consumption. This applies backwards to the entire map so it just isn't the high-end stuff that does it.

    Random mudcrabs now take multiple sneak-attack headshots to kill from my .50cal instigating sniper rifle to go down. God help you if run across a mudcrab hunter while you're doing this. The only answers are impractical luck-rolls that make weapons viable but at insane cost in ammo or durability use or... heavy weapons. And guess what heavy weapons are HEINOUS resource hogs too.

    And no they did not scale drops to level scaling. You get a level 10 pump-action if you're lucky.
    Last edited by MCerberus; 2021-06-25 at 03:05 PM.
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  16. - Top - End - #46
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    Default Re: Fallout X: Back after those messages

    Quote Originally Posted by MCerberus View Post
    Are they planning on fixing level scaling or anything like that?
    Agree with some bits, disagree with other bits?

    The way I see it, the issue is less with the scaling of enemy health and more with the damage scaling of weapons in the late game. In the early game, single-shot weapons like rifles, revolvers, and shotguns can deal with enemies with one headshot. But because their damage scales up linearly, around level 25 they start to fall off. In order to fix it, they'd need to buff damage for those weapons enough that they start to match commando and heavy guns in terms of DPS.

    Frankly, though, I think the issue with single-shot weapons is more the firerate than anything else. Fallout 76 throws so many enemies at players that even if you were able to one-shot every mob, you'd still take longer to deal with a group than an automatic or heavy gun. That's part of why Quad harpoon guns and ammo-glitched Dragons are so much better than their regular counterparts--without that need to reload after every shot, they're actually able to deal with more than one enemy at once. It takes them from useless novelties to daily drivers that are useful in everything but bossing.

    I do disagree slightly about heavy guns being resource hogs. They're actually some of the most resource efficient ammo types, though that obviously varies heavily based on which weapon you're using. For instance, if you're using a gatling plasma, one ammo craft will last you through several end-game boss fights. But if you're using a gauss minigun, LMG, or flamer? Forget it.
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  17. - Top - End - #47
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    Default Re: Fallout X: Back after those messages

    F76 is why I will likely never purchase another Bethesda product again, unless it has proven AFTER release that it isn't following in the business model outlined by this service-as-a-game.

    To be clear, it's not just the bugs, although those still exist, if somewhat fewer than they used to be. It's not just how Bethesda handled all the troubles at launch, although that was a pretty clear indicator of Bethesda's new corporate culture which I want no part of. It's about the business model that F76 represents that I absolutely, completely, and utterly loathe.

    Every aspect of F76 pushes you to the ATOM store. It plays like a freemium mobile game that encourages you to pay real cash for convenience or time-savers. They charge a monthly fee for things that should've been in the game at launch.

    If this is Bethesda's idea of how games should work going forward, count me out. I was already displeased by FO4 which was a FPS masquerading as an RPG instead of an RPG masquerading as a FPS. Everything is shiny, and as boring and bland as wet cardboard. You have four responses to any stimulus: "Yes, Edgy/Snarky Yes, Greedy Yes (with RNG component), or Maybe Later". This was compounded by their decision to include voice acting, which necessarily limited the script and caused them to reuse dialogue as much as possible to minimize the amount of money needed for the voice acting.

    But this? This went from Call of Duty: Fallout straight to predatory micro-transactions, despite having previously promised to NOT do precisely that. The game is deliberately and maliciously grindy explicitly so they can sell you the fix to the problem they engineered for you to experience for an additional fee.

    F:NV was it for me, I guess. Unless Bethesda can do a 180 on the direction they're going, I won't be buying anything they're selling.
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  18. - Top - End - #48
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    Default Re: Fallout X: Back after those messages

    Quote Originally Posted by ShneekeyTheLost View Post
    F:NV was it for me, I guess. Unless Bethesda can do a 180 on the direction they're going, I won't be buying anything they're selling.
    Yeah I'm in the same boat.

    76 revealed what their priorities are going forward and they're not the priorities I agree with.
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  19. - Top - End - #49
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    Default Re: Fallout X: Back after those messages

    Quote Originally Posted by Balmas View Post
    fallout 7-snip
    You want to know the most ridiculous resource sink though? Plasma rifle flamethrowers. The most PITA ammo eaten through like candy. It's a shame the most fun stuff isn't functional. I love that harpoon guns will slowly increase your ammo count through use though. That includes explosives, which you didn't even mention. Full demolition and a full clip from a quad missile launch simply tickles anything worth shooting a missile at.

    I will agree that being able to boost ROF does help a lot, got a quad double-barrel at some point and it deals pain so fast that the servers get confused... and then decide to heal what you were shooting at to full.
    Last edited by MCerberus; 2021-06-25 at 05:12 PM.
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    Default Re: Fallout X: Back after those messages

    Quote Originally Posted by ShneekeyTheLost View Post
    You have four responses to any stimulus: "Yes, Edgy/Snarky Yes, Greedy Yes (with RNG component), or Maybe Later". This was compounded by their decision to include voice acting, which necessarily limited the script and caused them to reuse dialogue as much as possible to minimize the amount of money needed for the voice acting.
    Please don't make excuses for Bethsoft's laziness with the "everything is voice acted" thing. Not only was that true of The Witcher 3, which is absolutely fantastic in terms of the choices it gives you for questlines, but it's also true of FO4's own DLC "Far Harbor" (already mentioned above), which is also excellent and easily the most Fallout-like stuff in the game. So, they could easily have given you some real meaty quest stuff in the main game even with the four-response and fully voiced llimitations, they just chose not to.

    As for FO76 discussion--never played it, never will. My interest in a multiplayer Fallout game (regardless of the level of microtransactions in it) is approximately equal to my interest in having all my teeth removed without anaesthetic.
    Last edited by factotum; 2021-06-25 at 11:03 PM.

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    Default Re: Fallout X: Back after those messages

    See... I wanted, and still want a Multiplayer Fallout. But when I say that, I think that Borderlands drop in/out style would be the best option. Where the game behaves like a single player game, but gives you the option to bring a few friends to jump in and say, go stomping around the Institute, or hunting around in Far Harbor.
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    Default Re: Fallout X: Back after those messages

    Quote Originally Posted by Triaxx View Post
    See... I wanted, and still want a Multiplayer Fallout. But when I say that, I think that Borderlands drop in/out style would be the best option. Where the game behaves like a single player game, but gives you the option to bring a few friends to jump in and say, go stomping around the Institute, or hunting around in Far Harbor.
    That's pretty much want I want out of a multiplayer Bethesda game. I don't really want a bunch of mechanics unique to the multiplayer experience, nor do I want an MMO, I just want to muck around in the existing games with friends.
    Sanity is nice to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there.

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    Default Re: Fallout X: Back after those messages

    Quote Originally Posted by ShneekeyTheLost View Post
    F76 is why I will likely never purchase another Bethesda product again, unless it has proven AFTER release that it isn't following in the business model outlined by this service-as-a-game.
    Any game with any type of mobile store that isn't purely for cosmetics gets an instant ban from me as well. It's already a cancer on the mobile phone industry. If it takes over the PC gaming industry as well I'll have to stop gaming.

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    Default Re: Fallout X: Back after those messages

    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    Any game with any type of mobile store that isn't purely for cosmetics gets an instant ban from me as well. It's already a cancer on the mobile phone industry. If it takes over the PC gaming industry as well I'll have to stop gaming.
    I have bad news for you, the AAA industry is a lost cause at this point. They've found predatory monetisation and they love it.

  25. - Top - End - #55
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    Default Re: Fallout X: Back after those messages

    Predatory microtransactions have been ruining online games for a long time now.

    Over a decade ago, a South Korean game developer got a license for the Dragon Ball IP(though only the Manga, not any anime original concepts) and was working with Akira Toriyama, who had full creative control over characters and story, to tell the tale of the canon future of the Dragonball World(which was incompatible with GT. Sorry, I know it has it's fans, but it was never intended to be canon.)

    The model was that you bought the software but there was no subscription and some optional microtransactions like paying cash for an equipment item that was slightly better than what you could get for in-game currency at the same level, or a 'costume' that you equipped that didn't do anything to your stats but overwrote the appearance of your character's armor to dress you up like a specific character from Dragonball or another of Toriyama's works.

    And then, after being active for about a year I want to say, the developer more or less ceased fixing bugs and updating the story entirely and only added cosmetic items to a gatcha shop... With the New Item deliberately having absurdly low chances of spawning, guaranteeing that you'd have to not only spend real money to get a cosmetic item but have to pay more than once.

    And then the game got shut down because it wasn't making enough money and people stopped playing.

    At no point did the developer think "hmm, let's actually release this game in Japan or America where Dragon Ball is insanely popular, that'll get us a much larger player base and thus more people willing to buy cosmetic items. Also, maybe people are stopping playing because we're transparently trying to bilk them out of money"

    (Luckily, concepts from the game were reused in other media eventually, so it's not a completely loss, but...)
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    Default Re: Fallout X: Back after those messages

    Quote Originally Posted by GloatingSwine View Post
    I have bad news for you, the AAA industry is a lost cause at this point. They've found predatory monetisation and they love it.
    I can't think of any AAA companies that use it too much except Ubisoft and EA and luckily their games are no big loss.

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    Default Re: Fallout X: Back after those messages

    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    I can't think of any AAA companies that use it too much except Ubisoft and EA and luckily their games are no big loss.
    I'd actually (somewhat) cut Ubisoft out of that list, but add in Activision. I've played quite a few Ubisoft games and even when things start going downhill in regards to monetization (see: what's happening to Siege right now that made me abandon it) it's not nearly as bad as anything those other two companies do.

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    Default Re: Fallout X: Back after those messages

    So we have Activision (who now owns blizzard), Ubisoft, Bethesda, and of course EA who all at least are dabbling in bad forms of microtransactions.

    I mean... isn't that pretty much the entire AAA list right there? Who are we missing so far?
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    Default Re: Fallout X: Back after those messages

    Quote Originally Posted by ShneekeyTheLost View Post
    So we have Activision (who now owns blizzard), Ubisoft, Bethesda, and of course EA who all at least are dabbling in bad forms of microtransactions.

    I mean... isn't that pretty much the entire AAA list right there? Who are we missing so far?
    I can't think of any examples from Bethesda that aren't purely cosmetic...which doesn't mean they don't exist.

    Other that...Capcom, valve, Nintendo, Sega, Square, Sony, cd project red, probably lots of others I can't think of off the top of my head.

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    Default Re: Fallout X: Back after those messages

    I still haven't forgiven Activision for what they did to Radical.
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