Fallout X: Back after those messages

[Grim Portent]

Because then you could activate the 'kill all bandits' mission at any point and soft-lock you from completing the game by not having a faction you can fall back on.

Then they should have just warned us ahead of time and made choosing to destroy the Minutemen make the quest to clear the bandits from Nuka-World impossible to start. One last chance to change your mind, then it's done and decided.

[LibraryOgre]

Then they should have just warned us ahead of time and made choosing to destroy the Minutemen make the quest to clear the bandits from Nuka-World impossible to start. One last chance to change your mind, then it's done and decided.

I mean, unless they make the bandits Required (I cannot remember the term right now), how are they going to stop you from just shooting bandits? And the bandits from retaliating?

[Grim Portent]

I mean, unless they make the bandits Required (I cannot remember the term right now), how are they going to stop you from just shooting bandits? And the bandits from retaliating?

Same way they do the Minutemen and every other major faction to an extent, once the decision is made and there's no fall back option flag the bandits as essential or treat them like settlers in that killing them has no long term consequences beyond nearby raiders shooting at you for a day or two.

It shouldn't really be any different than choosing which of the four main factions to side with, just that the raiders are a new faction that can replace the Minutemen rather than just ignoring them.

[Cikomyr2]

So I just rewatched a playthrough of Fallout 2, and I was wondering what was the point of the Brotherhood of Steel in that game.

And I mean, not in a lore way ("what is the Brotherhood doing with 3-4 deserted outposts in Northern California?") but in a game design point of view.

The very first outpost you meet - the Den - has one individual greeting you by your name, hints that they know how important you are (never explained how or why ), and tell you to go to the NCR.

The second outpost provides even less lore details. It's just "hey thank for showing up now you should go to San Francisco"

And then, finally, the San Francisco outpost sends you straight into the endgame material by going to steal vertibird plans at Navarro, but not in a way that would lock you out of other factions' quests that'd need the same material. (Shi or Scientologists)

You never get an explanation as to why they were keeping a close eye on you. It's not like you were directly opposed to the enclave from the get go; you were a native searching a piece of rare technology that they never show any interest in. After then, you are a native whose people got kidnapped by the Enclave, so *then* it would make sense that the BoS gets interested.

There's nothing about the BoS every tracking the Enclave activities on the continent. Nothing about the energy weapon traffick. Nothing about the rising technological prowess of the Shi and Hubologists

Besides providing you with breadcrumbs that allow you to sequence break the game if you are interested in these mysterious Bunker People (or played Fallout 1 and are obsessed with joining back with the Brotherhood), there's no structural point to this faction in the game, even less having it show up in The Den or the NCR.

[LibraryOgre]

You never get an explanation as to why they were keeping a close eye on you. It's not like you were directly opposed to the enclave from the get go; you were a native searching a piece of rare technology that they never show any interest in. After then, you are a native whose people got kidnapped by the Enclave, so *then* it would make sense that the BoS gets interested.

My hypothesis: The BoS kept some contact with the Arroyo villagers. Joshua, in the Den, was the contact for the Arroyo visitors, and knew about the Chosen One as the future leader of the tribe, and so provided some aid... as much as he could, given the limitations the Brotherhood puts on itself.

[Cikomyr2]

My hypothesis: The BoS kept some contact with the Arroyo villagers. Joshua, in the Den, was the contact for the Arroyo visitors, and knew about the Chosen One as the future leader of the tribe, and so provided some aid... as much as he could, given the limitations the Brotherhood puts on itself.

If the Brotherhood had kept active contact, then the elder or the shaman could have hinted at them.

The Brotherhood might have kept an eye on the Vault Dweller's descendants, but why? He didn't had super tech to monitor. He was an ally of convenience at one point but its not like he had a high Midichlorians count or something that would justify keeping a close eye on his bloodline.

Putting an entire outpost in the middle of nowhere just to keep tab on a tribe of primitives doesn't sound like Brotherhood.

For all I remember the status of you being a blood descendant of the Vault dweller is only a plot point to get citizenship in vault city. Nobody in the NCR cares nobody in San Fran cares. No brotherhood ever mentions your illustrious predecessor.

[Winthur]

So I just rewatched a playthrough of Fallout 2, and I was wondering what was the point of the Brotherhood of Steel in that game.

"We have to push out the sequel to our critically acclaimed game in a year and we really need the Brotherhood of Steel there because it was very memorable in Fallout 1, but we don't know how to fit it in organically when we have to write a ton of fetch quests between Vault City, New Reno, NCR, Redding and Broken Hills to pad the game and keep the player busy."

[LibraryOgre]

Putting an entire outpost in the middle of nowhere just to keep tab on a tribe of primitives doesn't sound like Brotherhood.

I assumed the outpost was not to keep tabs on the tribes of primitives, except insofar as the, like others, might discover technology the Brotherhood wants to keep for themselves. Imagine if they'd found the radioactive caves, with its robots and power armor? Or the Mr. Gutsy in Klamath? Or, further south, the Sierra Army Depot, or EPA (in the unofficial restoration)?

They weren't watching Arroyo... they were looking for people coming into a trading hub with unusual tech. And contact with Arroyo would have been useful, in that respect.

I'm not saying this is canon, and it certainly could have been explained better, but I think it mostly works.

[Balmas]

Been a while since I dropped a Let's Play episode in here, hasn't it?

Spoiler

Show

We Will All Go Together has always struck me as a weirdly unrewarding quest. You probably don't get there until the mid-game if you're following the main quest. And for killing ten ghouls in a heavily irradiated town, which involves several moderately difficult skill checks, you get... 250 caps and a service rifle. I kind of wish there were a unique for the old rifle Astor gives you, instead of the weapon you discarded ten levels ago when you hit Nipton.

[MCerberus]

Been a while since I dropped a Let's Play episode in here, hasn't it?

Spoiler

Show

We Will All Go Together has always struck me as a weirdly unrewarding quest. You probably don't get there until the mid-game if you're following the main quest. And for killing ten ghouls in a heavily irradiated town, which involves several moderately difficult skill checks, you get... 250 caps and a service rifle. I kind of wish there were a unique for the old rifle Astor gives you, instead of the weapon you discarded ten levels ago when you hit Nipton.

The real treasure is the holy hand grenade you use to blow up giant radscorpions along the way.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

So, I have discovered a better version of MO2 that works flawlessly with Linux distros (or at least mine), so I'm spinning up yet another runthrough of the Mojave.

My question is: What is your favorite 'home base' mod?

The SINK from OWB makes a darn good home base with Improved Transportalponder, Sortomatic, and Sinkomatic enabled. Bonus of Sortomatic also working in areas before you get to the SINK.

Underground Hideout is one of my old favorites, however the problem is that it doesn't have the sorting functionality of Sortomatic. It can also break Dead Money by being able to craft a teleporter in DM, warping to your underground hideout, heading back to the bunker, looting all your stuff, and warping back to DM with all your gear. This doesn't prevent the insta-gib mechanics, but it does at least give you your old stuff back.

Are there others that anyone likes using? I know Balmas has been using the Mobile Base mod in his Let's Play quite effectively. Any feedback on how actually user-friendly it is?

Right now, I've got the old standby combo of Project Nevada, A World Of Pain, WMX, and EVE all running and cooperating together as the 'core' of the 'pack' I'm playing. Then I added the 'of course you want this just to make the game function as intended' mod suite of YUP, NVAC, and NVTF. Of course, MCM and WMM are mandatory. Then the JIP mods that make life easier like the Improved Recipe Menu and Missing Ammo Recipes. I've included Grunt Perk for AWOP and PN Weapons, YUP adds Grunt Perk to all other weapons so no need for an additional mod for that. From there, I included the Advanced Recon suite, because why not, including the Cyborg addon that lets you spend a perk to be able to use TAC and NV without a qualifying headgear which I find a fair tradeoff. Flashlight NVSE because I like the atmosphere of the darker areas, especially how AWOP does lighting, but still want to be able to navigate them before I get Night Vision, and I like the effect I get with the flashlight mod.

From there, I install a mod called Expansion Vendors, which adds certain vendors across the Mojave that have specific items for sale. There's one down by the NCR base at Primm that sells ammo crafting components and the occasional weapon mod. SOB in Freeside sells melee mods. There's a vendor out at the 188 that sells crops. Ol' Lady Gibson's inventory has been substantially expanded to include lots of bits and bobs for crafting. Lots of scrap metal and electronics, that sort of thing. You get the idea.

The Scientist Pack is very much like one of the POP DLC's in that it gives you some starting gear, and fixes the fact that none of the items you get in the POP help you if you want to go energy weapons instead of guns. It starts you off with a slightly improved recharger rifle. Not the best, but a decent energy weapon for those inclined. I use the version which is compatible with WMX. It also gives you a lab coat with some energy and fire resistance but almost no defense.

I haven't decided on what kind of base I want yet, so I'm willing to listen to suggestions. Also if there are any other mods you've been really enjoying, I'd like to hear about those as well. The More Perks mod apparently got deleted, at least on Nexus. Not sure if there's a replacement for it or not.

[Triaxx]

You'll want to check through https://discourse.modsinexile.com/ Which is a site full of authors who bailed when Nexus decided to become ye olde soulless corporate entity.

I always enjoyed Signature Armor, though it can be slightly overpowered. I swap weapons too often for the Weapon mod version of it to be useful to me.

As for bases, I know Afterschool has some sorting functionality, and I think Underground Hideout does as well. I'm not sure how they differ from Sort-o-matic though.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

You'll want to check through https://discourse.modsinexile.com/ Which is a site full of authors who bailed when Nexus decided to become ye olde soulless corporate entity.

I always enjoyed Signature Armor, though it can be slightly overpowered. I swap weapons too often for the Weapon mod version of it to be useful to me.

As for bases, I know Afterschool has some sorting functionality, and I think Underground Hideout does as well. I'm not sure how they differ from Sort-o-matic though.

I think they do not have a very good understanding of 'license to distribute means', because it doesn't mean what they seem to think it means. As someone who currently maintains a mod on Nexus, they are making mountains out of molehills. Which, granted, is their right to do so. But after browsing all, what, sixteen mods (most of them reskins), I don't think there's anything valuable at that resource.

In other news, I did find an interesting mod called Cyberware 2281. In effect, it's a stand-alone module and a reimagining of Project Nevada's Cybernetics Core, only it takes advantage of JIP LN NVSE Plugin and the features of xNVSE to do things in a much more coherent and less memory-intensive manner. To use this mod, you'll want to disable PN's Cyberware Core and anything strictly dependent upon it (such as the OWB DLC patch for PN). It already has plug-and-play functionality with the implants from OWB as well as cross-compatibility with Advanced Recon.

[Cikomyr2]

What happened to Nexus...?

[Rynjin]

What happened to Nexus...?

They removed the ability for authors to remove their mods from the site once uploaded, to enable their Collections feature (curated mod lists users can submit for others to download as a unit, with patches already applied, etc.).

Some users freaked out over this, because they're the kind of people that do **** like take their ball and go home if someone in the community pisses them off, or to make a completely unrelated political statement.

Personally, I'm fine not having to worry about logging on to download an update for a mod to see "This mod has been deleted" and have to dig through pages of forum drama to see that somebody's fee-fees were hurt by another user so they wanted to scrub their entire presence from the site anymore.

[Triaxx]

It's a little more unpleasant than that. A lot of the modders had donation links on their pages and the way they got traffic to them was when you passed through there while downloading the mods. Free mod users still have to manually download mods one at a time through collections. Which, if you can't afford a nexus sub probably means you can't afford to donate. However... If you're a sub member, you don't see that page. Vortex just auto-downloads everything.

Moreover because old versions cannot be deleted, if a version goes up with a game-breaking bug in it, it's now impossible to delete that version. And while you can hide it, the aforementioned auto-downloader willl still grab it without anyway to stop it. So even if it's only up for an hour or so, someone can grab it and make a collection and now it's permanently baked in. Worse this isn't a new complaint. It was one of the things raised when G2A was doing it and also when certain other mod collections such as Mission Mojave did it. It reflects terribly on mod authors but they have no recourse to do anything about it.

[veti]

Moreover because old versions cannot be deleted, if a version goes up with a game-breaking bug in it, it's now impossible to delete that version. And while you can hide it, the aforementioned auto-downloader willl still grab it without anyway to stop it. So even if it's only up for an hour or so, someone can grab it and make a collection and now it's permanently baked in. Worse this isn't a new complaint. It was one of the things raised when G2A was doing it and also when certain other mod collections such as Mission Mojave did it. It reflects terribly on mod authors but they have no recourse to do anything about it.

I'd say that reflects more on the curator of the collection than on the author of the mod. If you screw up a release, then correct it within a few hours, how exactly does that damage your standing more with collections than without?

Incidentally, does anyone actually use collections? I took a look, but couldn't for the life of me figure out what they were supposed to achieve.

[Rynjin]

I've tried a few. One borked a few things ("A StoryWealth") so I installed the mods I was interested in separately. Another was the exact kind of thing I was looking for. I did a fresh install of Fallout 4, and wanted to purge my modlist. So I deleted everything.

There's a Horizon Framework Collection that's quite useful for getting things started; it has the most recent version of Horizon, plus a lot of QOL features that make it a little better. I've also liked having Collections for weapons. Like 90% of all Fallout 4 mods are new weapons, and **** if I'm digging through the chaff to find the good stuff. I'll just download somebody's Collection of weapons they like for a specific category (Energy, Ballistic, "Lore Friendly", etc.) and call it a day.

If Collections work for Cyberpunk 2077, that will be a good game for it too. As-is you have to manually install most mods, so if this kicks off proper Vortex compatibility for all mods going forward, I'm down.

[Vinyadan]

In other news, I did find an interesting mod called Cyberware 2281. In effect, it's a stand-alone module and a reimagining of Project Nevada's Cybernetics Core, only it takes advantage of JIP LN NVSE Plugin and the features of xNVSE to do things in a much more coherent and less memory-intensive manner. To use this mod, you'll want to disable PN's Cyberware Core and anything strictly dependent upon it (such as the OWB DLC patch for PN). It already has plug-and-play functionality with the implants from OWB as well as cross-compatibility with Advanced Recon.

Sounds very interesting... I'm thinking of making a new playthrough, and coupling this with some combat mods and the expansions (I still have to play them). Last time I did a melee playthrough, this time I'm thiking of going automatic.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I'd say that reflects more on the curator of the collection than on the author of the mod. If you screw up a release, then correct it within a few hours, how exactly does that damage your standing more with collections than without?

Incidentally, does anyone actually use collections? I took a look, but couldn't for the life of me figure out what they were supposed to achieve.

The functionality of Collections is much like that of mod packs for, say, Minecraft: A collection of mods all on the same version that multiple people can use to get the same experience, or for playing those games which are multiplayer while modded together, since it all syncs the same versions of the same mods so there's no incompatibility issues between various players.

While not useful for single player games like Bethesda's, it is extremely useful for games like Stardew Valley.

[Balmas]

I haven't decided on what kind of base I want yet, so I'm willing to listen to suggestions. Also if there are any other mods you've been really enjoying, I'd like to hear about those as well. The More Perks mod apparently got deleted, at least on Nexus. Not sure if there's a replacement for it or not.

Sink-o-Matic has been my default player home for most playthroughs. The combination of Sink-O-Matic and Improved Transportalponder is great for when you just want to pop into your base, auto-sort out all the junk and refill on ammo, and then get back on the road.

In addition to Mobile Truck Base, I'm going to plug two other Sortomatic-enabled mods: Afterschool Special, and New Bison Steve Hotel and Lucky Casino. Both ask you to rebuild early-game buildings--the Goodsprings schoolhouse and the Bison Steve hotel and casino, respectively--and serve as good early-game housing. The Bison Steve is arguably less feature-complete; it's a separate quest mod to which Sortomatic has been added, and relies heavily on existing quests. For instance, the quest to get a new neon sign for the hotel requires you to go do Michael Angelo's quest in the Strip.

Also, I have the files for More Perks downloaded. Let me know if you want me to zip them up and put them on a dropbox somewhere. Fair warning, More Perks is wildly imbalanced, both in the powerful and weak sense of the word--you have perks that will give you pet roaches, but also perks like "have seven extra SPECIAL points" or "regenerate limb damage instantly."

Last Minute Edit: Stash Organizer. Stash Organizer is great. It's like Sortomatic, but lightweight, and doesn't need to have an entire cell specifically coded for it. Install it, go to the cell you want as your player house, and hit the Vats key while pointing at a container: that's now the master sorting container, and you can set the same Sortomatic rules for the other containers in that cell.

In other news, I did find an interesting mod called Cyberware 2281. In effect, it's a stand-alone module and a reimagining of Project Nevada's Cybernetics Core, only it takes advantage of JIP LN NVSE Plugin and the features of xNVSE to do things in a much more coherent and less memory-intensive manner. To use this mod, you'll want to disable PN's Cyberware Core and anything strictly dependent upon it (such as the OWB DLC patch for PN). It already has plug-and-play functionality with the implants from OWB as well as cross-compatibility with Advanced Recon.

I've actually been playing around with a mod-setup to eliminate Project Nevada from my mod order, mainly because most of the features it adds can be duplicated with better-programmed and less script-heavy mods. Between the Just Mods, B42 Quickthrow, and Cyberware 2281, most of Project Nevada is already replicated in separate mods. The only think I haven't been able to find is a configurable rebalance mod and something to replicate Project Nevada's more punishing crippled limbs system.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Sink-o-Matic has been my default player home for most playthroughs. The combination of Sink-O-Matic and Improved Transportalponder is great for when you just want to pop into your base, auto-sort out all the junk and refill on ammo, and then get back on the road.

In addition to Mobile Truck Base, I'm going to plug two other Sortomatic-enabled mods: Afterschool Special, and New Bison Steve Hotel and Lucky Casino. Both ask you to rebuild early-game buildings--the Goodsprings schoolhouse and the Bison Steve hotel and casino, respectively--and serve as good early-game housing. The Bison Steve is arguably less feature-complete; it's a separate quest mod to which Sortomatic has been added, and relies heavily on existing quests. For instance, the quest to get a new neon sign for the hotel requires you to go do Michael Angelo's quest in the Strip.

I saw Afterschool Special on your Let's Play, that was kind of interesting.

Currently using Sink-o-Matic and Improved Transportalponder because, as you said, it's so gosh darn convenient.

Also, I have the files for More Perks downloaded. Let me know if you want me to zip them up and put them on a dropbox somewhere. Fair warning, More Perks is wildly imbalanced, both in the powerful and weak sense of the word--you have perks that will give you pet roaches, but also perks like "have seven extra SPECIAL points" or "regenerate limb damage instantly."

I think I figured out the problem, I used More Perks Plus, which had been removed for some reason, but More Perks is still a thing that exists.

Last Minute Edit: Stash Organizer. Stash Organizer is great. It's like Sortomatic, but lightweight, and doesn't need to have an entire cell specifically coded for it. Install it, go to the cell you want as your player house, and hit the Vats key while pointing at a container: that's now the master sorting container, and you can set the same Sortomatic rules for the other containers in that cell.

I saw that as well, but I was hesitant because it sounded a lot like it would somehow go away under certain conditions, and didn't want to risk all my worldly possessions.

I've actually been playing around with a mod-setup to eliminate Project Nevada from my mod order, mainly because most of the features it adds can be duplicated with better-programmed and less script-heavy mods. Between the Just Mods, B42 Quickthrow, and Cyberware 2281, most of Project Nevada is already replicated in separate mods. The only think I haven't been able to find is a configurable rebalance mod and something to replicate Project Nevada's more punishing crippled limbs system.

I hear ya. Honestly been wanting to due to compatibility issues. I think I finally got everything working with PN/AWOP/EVE/WMX, at least when I disabled the Cybernetics Core and used Cyberware 2281. But yea, less scripts running the better. And also, yea, I'd really like the re-balance part of NV if possible, which is why I use it mostly these days. Especially since the author of Cyberware 2281 made a Nightvision module that basically replaces NV's functionality and is even already compatible with Advanced Recon gear suite.

Oh, speaking of EVE, is there any way to disable the exploding bits part of laser crits? It is extremely disruptive to the local environment when it does that, and can make finding things nearly impossible if they get flung around, and I really don't like it at all. Actually, it reminded me of why I previously uninstalled EVE. I like the better noises and looks, but I could do without the disimproved crit behavior. Normal ash piles are just fine by me.

I've also heard some interesting things about IMPACT, that it's the Guns equivalent of EVE, how accurate is that?

[Triaxx]

I was also suggested to check out this site, as a more modern modding guide: https://vivanewvegas.github.io/index.html

Personally I'm fine with Project Nevada. It behaves itself well enough and doesn't randomly explode on me.

[Cikomyr2]

So i was thinking about Fallout 4's initial storyline..

And goddamnit theres no reason Bethesda should have made the quest sequence so goddamn linear.

Lets say you were to accidentally stumble on Kellogg. Lets then say Bethesda wasnt a lazy writing team and allowed you to sequence break for a minute.

Whats the consequence? The confrontation would still end with Kellogg's death, no matter what. You dont get more insight by freeing Valentine first. And since you grab the memory module, you will ***still*** need to go and free Valentine to access the memories. So forcing us to free Valentine first is pointless

You could have turned everything up to "Hidden Memories" as a multi-condition goodie collection run that has a story-based natural progression but can be executed in the order of your choice.

Also, they should have had the loner supermutant in the glowing sea spawn even before you know he's ex-Institute. Just make him rude and unwilling to have a lenghty conversation. Hell, maybe if you get to him before you kill Kellogg he could have pointed you Kellogg's hideout in Diamond City or Fort Hagan.

[veti]

So i was thinking about Fallout 4's initial storyline..

And goddamnit theres no reason Bethesda should have made the quest sequence so goddamn linear.

Yeah, Bethesda's writing has been getting steadily more linear and less flexible for ages now, and in Fallout 4 it becomes downright offensive.

Unfortunately, that's the cheapest way to make games. Only if there is a significant blowback from the fans, to the point where Bethesda thinks it may actually be losing sales, is that likely to change. And for all the moaning on forums like this, I don't see any real sign of that sort of discontent.

[Mechalich]

Yeah, Bethesda's writing has been getting steadily more linear and less flexible for ages now, and in Fallout 4 it becomes downright offensive.

Unfortunately, that's the cheapest way to make games. Only if there is a significant blowback from the fans, to the point where Bethesda thinks it may actually be losing sales, is that likely to change. And for all the moaning on forums like this, I don't see any real sign of that sort of discontent.

There has been significant blowback from fans, only it wasn't about F4, it was about F76. If you think F4's main quest has linearity problems, well, don't to play through F76's. Not only is it linear in the extreme, it also forces you to repeatedly return to quest-giver locations after completing objectives, often requiring you to trudge across huge stretches of map (and F76's map is genuinely big and its mountainous nature makes navigation frustrating), and unlike in most previous Fallout's where beating the main quest is almost trivially easy, F76's main quest involves breaching some of the game's most dangerous areas and if you don't have a good build doing so will be nearly impossible.

The big test to see if Bethesda learned anything will be when Starfield comes out.

[GloatingSwine]

Yeah, Bethesda's writing has been getting steadily more linear and less flexible for ages now, and in Fallout 4 it becomes downright offensive.

So here's the thing about Bethesda's main quests (at least from Oblivion onwards). They're actually intended to be a basic guided tour of the world that gets you to meet all the factions and visit key locations which are where the real content is. For example Fallout 3 leads you to Rivet City, the Mall where you can stumble on Underworld, Vault 112 that makes sure you see Tenpenny Tower, to meet the Brotherhood, and Little Lamplight which should send you to Paradise Falls before you can get in.

The problem with Fallout 4 was that that content was another settlement that needed your help.

[Cikomyr2]

So here's the thing about Bethesda's main quests (at least from Oblivion onwards). They're actually intended to be a basic guided tour of the world that gets you to meet all the factions and visit key locations which are where the real content is. For example Fallout 3 leads you to Rivet City, the Mall where you can stumble on Underworld, Vault 112 that makes sure you see Tenpenny Tower, to meet the Brotherhood, and Little Lamplight which should send you to Paradise Falls before you can get in.

The problem with Fallout 4 was that that content was another settlement that needed your help.

Nonono. The entire thing makes sense:

- Fort Hagan so you get introduced to the Brotherhood of Steel
- Valentine so you get introduced to Diamond City
- the Den of Memory so you get introduced to Goodneighbour.

Its *fine* to have a main quest thats effectively a touelr guide. But why insist on a chronological sequence of events for plot progression? Why do you HAVE to free Valentine first before you stumble on Kellogg?

Its like of Skyrim forbidden your access to the college of magic before you reached that point in the main story.

[MCerberus]

I have never not known Bethesda to not be super linear. All of the quest lines are mostly extremely linear tracks run parallel. The closest examples to them not being in my memory (started with Oblivion, never played Daggerfall or Morrowind) are "select which order you want to do the local guild quests before the real plot starts" and in Skyrim the, and I think entirely accidental, sequence break of you being able to do the civil war line of your choice before the dragon kidnapping.

[factotum]

That's true of Bethesda's main quests, MCerberus, but they definitely tend to offer more freedom in side material. Just look at the Far Harbor DLC, which I think can easily have half-a-dozen different outcomes depending on your choices. I guess their problem is really that they don't know how to lead to the desired ending of saving the world or whatever if you play your character in a way they're not expecting, which leads to it feeling a bit railroady.