Sacred Fists and Gauntlets of the Talon?

[danielxcutter]

Gauntlets of the Talon are relics of Bahamut that give you claw attacks as the basic ability, and when you make the divine connection they act as a Monk's Belt and let you do slashing damage with unarmed attacks.

Sacred Fists are a monk/cleric PrC that have this code of conduct:

A member of a sacred fist order refuses to use any weapon. A sacred fist who knowingly carries or uses a weapon loses all class spells and features and advances no farther as a sacred fist until he atones for his action (see the atonement spell, page 201 of the Player's Handbook).

Would the Gauntlets make a Sacred Fist fall? I'm not confident that they don't, which is a shame because they're quite thematic of a Sacred Fist worshiping Bahamut. But even if they're not "normal" weapons they're not transforming the user's body or anything; the gauntlets have claws on them which is how that works.

It really would be a nice item honestly; Divine Power and Flurry of Blows along with two claws mean you get a lot of attacks.

[Drelua]

If the stats say they're gauntlets, then under the strictest reading they aren't allowed. If they're written in a way that sounds like they're magic gloves that are called 'gauntlets,' maybe it could work. I'd allow it as a GM, fwiw, so the answer I'd give is probably not, ask your GM.

Either way though, I'm pretty sure you can't flurry and use natural attacks as part of the same full attack action since it says "a monk may attack only with unarmed strikes or with special monk weapons." Claws are neither, so you don't get extra attacks from using this item, even if it is allowed for a Sacred Fist.

[Troacctid]

Despite the name, they are in fact gloves, not gauntlets, and will not interfere with your oath. Besides, if they were weapons, they would presumably require Craft Magic Arms and Armor for their creation (cf. gauntlets of the blood lord, chromatic rod), and they do not.

[danielxcutter]

If the stats say they're gauntlets, then under the strictest reading they aren't allowed. If they're written in a way that sounds like they're magic gloves that are called 'gauntlets,' maybe it could work. I'd allow it as a GM, fwiw, so the answer I'd give is probably not, ask your GM.

Either way though, I'm pretty sure you can't flurry and use natural attacks as part of the same full attack action since it says "a monk may attack only with unarmed strikes or with special monk weapons." Claws are neither, so you don't get extra attacks from using this item, even if it is allowed for a Sacred Fist.

Eh. Guess that's a slot not being used for an Amulet of Fists at least.

Despite the name, they are in fact gloves, not gauntlets, and will not interfere with your oath. Besides, if they were weapons, they would presumably require Craft Magic Arms and Armor for their creation (cf. gauntlets of the blood lord, chromatic rod), and they do not.

Hmm, good point.

[Drelua]

Despite the name, they are in fact gloves, not gauntlets, and will not interfere with your oath. Besides, if they were weapons, they would presumably require Craft Magic Arms and Armor for their creation (cf. gauntlets of the blood lord, chromatic rod), and they do not.

Yeah, I looked up the item and this does seem like this is the most reasonable interpretation. They do say "...the gauntlets also function as ghost touch weapons for the purpose of attacking incorporeal..." though, so the intention might be that they're gauntlets, they just aren't enchanted as weapons but as wondrous items. But since the rest of the text only mentions attacking with claws granted by the gauntlets, not attacking with the gauntlets, that one line at the end might be a mistake. Since it doesn't line up with how similar items that are gauntlets work, I'd say they're probably not. If your GM wants to say they are, ask if you can get gloves of the talon instead.

Eh. Guess that's a slot not being used for an Amulet of Fists at least.

It would be a good idea to get a Necklace of Natural attacks instead. I always find it funny that an Amulet of Mighty Fists is better if you have multiple natural attacks, but if you're only using unarmed strikes you want a Necklace of Natural Attacks, since the Amulet enhances all natural attacks, and the price of the Necklace goes up for every extra natural attack it can enhance. So if it's only enhancing one natural attack, it's much cheaper and can go up to a higher bonus.

[liquidformat]

I think it should work though always good to run by your dm, if it doesn't might I suggest Bracers of Striking (Magic of Faerun pg155) I generally prefer them to Amulet of Natural Weapons though it really depends since if you only have one natural attack Amulet of Natural Weapons is slightly better but I find the necklace slot more useful.

It would be a good idea to get a Necklace of Natural attacks instead. I always find it funny that an Amulet of Mighty Fists is better if you have multiple natural attacks, but if you're only using unarmed strikes you want a Necklace of Natural Attacks, since the Amulet enhances all natural attacks, and the price of the Necklace goes up for every extra natural attack it can enhance. So if it's only enhancing one natural attack, it's much cheaper and can go up to a higher bonus.

Amulet of Mighty Fists can only have an enhancement bonus added to your attack/damage; whereas, Amulet of Natural Weapons can have special abilities modify your natural attacks, that is why there is a distinction in price calculation.

[Troacctid]

It would be a good idea to get a Necklace of Natural attacks instead. I always find it funny that an Amulet of Mighty Fists is better if you have multiple natural attacks, but if you're only using unarmed strikes you want a Necklace of Natural Attacks, since the Amulet enhances all natural attacks, and the price of the Necklace goes up for every extra natural attack it can enhance. So if it's only enhancing one natural attack, it's much cheaper and can go up to a higher bonus.

The gauntlets are great! They give you +5 effective monk level and ghost touch. That's nothing to sneeze at! They're best for a favored soul, since favored souls have more spell slots to burn.

[danielxcutter]

Yeah, I looked up the item and this does seem like this is the most reasonable interpretation. They do say "...the gauntlets also function as ghost touch weapons for the purpose of attacking incorporeal..." though, so the intention might be that they're gauntlets, they just aren't enchanted as weapons but as wondrous items. But since the rest of the text only mentions attacking with claws granted by the gauntlets, not attacking with the gauntlets, that one line at the end might be a mistake. Since it doesn't line up with how similar items that are gauntlets work, I'd say they're probably not. If your GM wants to say they are, ask if you can get gloves of the talon instead.

Nah, I'm convinced. It was more about the concept rather than something that actually came up in a game anyways.

It would be a good idea to get a Necklace of Natural attacks instead. I always find it funny that an Amulet of Mighty Fists is better if you have multiple natural attacks, but if you're only using unarmed strikes you want a Necklace of Natural Attacks, since the Amulet enhances all natural attacks, and the price of the Necklace goes up for every extra natural attack it can enhance. So if it's only enhancing one natural attack, it's much cheaper and can go up to a higher bonus.

I know about that item, yeah. Hmm.

Also that's still max 7 attacks with Flurry of Blows and a Haste-type effect right? Clerics aren't exactly short on ways to boost too-hit anyways. And there are a bunch of items that boost monk abilities with the right sourcebooks - there were those bracers that give a boost to Flurrying 3/day right?

[animewatcha]

Would the feat 'Heretic of the faith' take care of the code of conduct crap?

[Drelua]

The gauntlets are great! They give you +5 effective monk level and ghost touch. That's nothing to sneeze at! They're best for a favored soul, since favored souls have more spell slots to burn.

Oh, yeah, for 4k and a spell slot they're an amazing item for a Sacred Fist, plus it frees up the belt slot for a belt of strength, or belt of brilliance for all 6 stats at higher levels since this character gets a lot out of 4 different attributes. Didn't mean to say they aren't great, just that also getting the necklace would be a good idea since it's way cheaper than the AoMF.

I just find it funny because the item that says it's for "mighty fists" is better if you have 3 or more natural attacks, and the one that says it's for natural attacks is better for punching.

Edit to add: Heretic of the Faith says "your deities code of conduct," and this is from a class not a deity, so it wouldn't apply. It's not really that much of a restriction, not having a ranged option can be annoying but with good speed and cleric casting it shouldn't be much of a problem. Although it does make me wonder what would happen if an ally got knocked out, you carried them away, and they had a weapon on them. A reasonable GM probably wouldn't count that, but it could be risky.