True Strike Homebrew vs RAW

[DwarfFighter]

It has been posted by : https://forums.giantitp.com/showsing...9&postcount=52

As I'm sure you already know, the trap of true strike is that unless your character benefits from having advantage (Elven Accuracy or Rogue Sneak Attack), then you're better off attacking twice as opposed to using true strike and then attacking the next turn. The only exception to this that I can think of is if a caster is using a high level spell with an attack roll, and they need it to hit.

Therefore, the draw of "fixing" true strike is that it's such a bad spell it's practically begging to be fixed. There are many threads about it, so we don't need to get into it too much here, but the general consensus about homebrewing true strike is either
1) Make it a bonus action, but give it some negative that makes you not spam it every turn (takes concentration)
or
2) Make it a blade cantrip that has a fixed bonus to hit, but scaling bonus to damage.

I agree that attacking twice is often better than true strike: As anyone will notice, if both the rolls were good enough to score a hit, you have wasted a damage roll! If you have multiple attacks per action, True Strike is even less impressive since you are sacrificing even more potential damage rolls.

However, that holds true for very specific circumstances:

1. You are free to make a normal attack on the both the first and second turn.
2. That's it.

There are already in-game situations that, albeit are more seldom, are still situations where RAW TS is a relevant tool.

Sometimes you can't attack on your turn. Perhaps the enemy is out of range by just a few dozen feet. Maybe the combat hasn't started yet because your are planning an ambush or the bad guy is giving his speech and the GM is holding you back. If you can't attack this turn, but you can plan ahead and make an attack in the next, TS is one way spend your action so that it isn't wasted.

Sometimes you're not making normal attacks: You too can be at a disadvantage against an enemy where this means the chance of missing with each attack is high, meaning you are at risk of missing with each of your attacks. Instead of having to hope for two high rolls per attack, TS changes the situation to only require one high roll.

Sometimes your attacks aren't free. If your attack consumes a valuable resource, TS gives you two tries for the price of one.

(It is unfortunate that TS doesn't boost opportunity attacks - combined with Polearm Mastery or Sentinel would make for a great defensive line.)

As for the proposed fixes...

1. Cast as bonus action. As OP points out, a change like this also needs to introduce a cost. At the moment, that cost is the 1 action cast. Change that to a bonus action and True Strike is going to be always on. I don't see how the cantrip itself could be modified to work as a bonus action to cast and still remain what it already is, but see below!

2. Changing TS to do something else is effectively the same as removing it from the game and introducing a new cantrip in its place. And in that case we might just as well keep TS in circulation as is and add the new spell with its own name...

So here's my suggestion: First introduce a home-brew mechanic that places a limit on how many times or how often a character can cast cantrips. This could really be anything that suits your campaign. Five cantrips after any short rest? Ten? Maybe you can only cast a cantrip every second turn, or you can cast as a cantrip each turn, but the same cantrip only once per three turns, or five?

Then consider changing TS to a bonus action to cast, and leave the rest of the spell as-is.

-DF

[Amnestic]

As for the proposed fixes...

1. Cast as bonus action. As OP points out, a change like this also needs to introduce a cost. At the moment, that cost is the 1 action cast. Change that to a bonus action and True Strike is going to be always on. I don't see how the cantrip itself could be modified to work as a bonus action to cast and still remain what it already is, but see below!

It has a cost. It costs: a cantrip slot, a bonus action, and concentration. None of those are free, and depending on your build some aspects will be more "costly" than others.

[Stabbey]

I don't think I have enough experience to make good suggestions, but the best change I can think of is to make it an "you absolutely, positively want to hit this round." So it would be a bonus action which grants advantage to all attacks on your current turn, and the cost is all attacks on your next turn will be at disadvantage. In theory, that gives it a very special niche of wanting to have the best chance to land a hit in that round, while also not being something you want to use every round. I guess I've also changed the spell from being a target of one creature to a target of self so that you can't ignore the downside by attacking something else..

Some things which are not ironed out are that it also doesn't say what happens if your next attack is a reaction, or what happens to your "next attack disadvantage" if combat ends before your next turn. Even if it persists literally until your next attack, if there's a long time before the next fight, that's likely to be forgotten anyway.

So at best my idea has some problems.

[sayaijin]

After the thread got deleted for thread necromancy, I had to reread the rules for thread necromancy. I had forgotten.

As to the post itself, I guess I've just never seen anyone ever take true strike... without asking to swap it out by the next session or two.

It has its uses, but they are very niche. In 3.5 it was a first level spell and it essentially made the next hit guaranteed. Now we have it as a cantrip and it gives a much less meaningful bonus to hit.

I've been around on this forum long enough to see several threads about reworking it. Some recommending it do double damage, some (like my DM wanted) who wanted it to crit more, and others have pointed out that giving it both accuracy and damage scaling makes it better than a magic weapon.

[Dalinar]

Bonus action TS is not the same as a free TS. There are plenty of other things you could wish to do with your bonus action that aren't TS (Cunning Action, Misty Step, BA attacks where applicable, Bladesong all come to mind) and that's not even getting into the interrupting-concentration part.

[Segev]

My suggestion is always this: change the target to "self" so it modifies the next attack roll you make before the end of your next turn, and then make it cause that attack roll to lose disadvantage if it would have had it, and then gain advantage.

This makes it do something unique, keeps the basic idea intact, and removes the weird need to pick a nearby target for your attack a round early. It still isn't breaking bounded accuracy, but it is guaranteeing advantage if you dont lose concentration, even in situations where disadvantage would normally make that impossible. A genuine divination-assisted bit of accuracy.

[DwarfFighter]

Bonus action TS is not the same as a free TS. There are plenty of other things you could wish to do with your bonus action that aren't TS (Cunning Action, Misty Step, BA attacks where applicable, Bladesong all come to mind) and that's not even getting into the interrupting-concentration part.

Sure, you can occasionally have other uses for your bonus action aside from using it to cast TS. But otherwise TS is effectively "on" every waking second of your life. And that is too much, I think.

-DF

[Amnestic]

Sure, you can occasionally have other uses for your bonus action aside from using it to cast TS. But otherwise TS is effectively "on" every waking second of your life. And that is too much, I think.

-DF

What's your build in this case?

[DwarfFighter]

What's your build in this case?

High Elf.

-DF

[sayaijin]

Sure, you can occasionally have other uses for your bonus action aside from using it to cast TS. But otherwise TS is effectively "on" every waking second of your life. And that is too much, I think.

-DF

Dalinar is right. Characters that would use a cantrip like this would be mostly EK Fighters, Arcane Tricksters, Hexblades, and Bladesingers.

EK is likely using polearm master, AT is using cunning action (including the new Aim), Hexblades have curse/Hex and are also likely using polearm master, Bladesingers are using bladesong or misty step or other BA spells.

So while the bonus action rework is an improvement, I'm not sure who would use it. Of that list, most likely the EK/Bladesinger, but then it uses a precious cantrip slot.


It is "always on", when there isn't something better to do.

[Amnestic]

High Elf.

-DF

High elf what? Your class(es) make a lot of impact on this, along with your level range.

Is a 20th level wizard really spending their concentration on True Strike? No, probably not, except maybe in Disintegrate circumstances.

[GeneralVryth]

I think the real answer (at least if the goal is to make it keep the same theme), is make it a first level spell, and the offense equivalent of Shield. Reaction or Bonus action to cast, next attack gets +10 (or +20, or is a guaranteed hit, or a guaranteed crit depending on balance). Or Reaction or Bonus action and the rest of your attacks this get +5 to hit.

Personally, I think I like the idea of:
True Strike
1st-level divination
Casting Time: reaction
Range: Self
Components: V
Duration: Instantaneous
Your next attack this turn is considered to be a natural 20 for its attack roll.


Simple and to the point, a nice synergy with attack cantrips and the handful of attack spells, while also having a distinct cost (competing directly with Shield/Absorb Elements).

[DwarfFighter]

Reaction to what, and why Verbal?

[Segev]

Reaction to what, and why Verbal?

Reaction to seeing the arrow flying, and the verbal component is saying "Come on... come on...!" as you will it to veer towards the target.

[GeneralVryth]

Reaction to what, and why Verbal?

Reaction to performing an action that requires an attack roll (and then adjusting the results of that action). Reaction also doesn't interfere with casting a normal action spell (which are ones that may require an attack roll), while also directly competing with Shield and Absorb Elements in terms of action type.

As for why verbal, the honest answer is I copied a template I used for a better scaling Misty Step and that was the component type and I couldn't think of a reason to change it. Shield itself is V,S and given the feel I am going for, that would also make sense. But an S component could interfere with uses that would make sense for the spell (I imagine an "Arcane Archer" drawing a bow and using magic to ace his target).

[Angelalex242]

Hmm. I think I might set it up like this.

Make it not concentration, make it last 10 minutes, and now it's a prep spell that gives you an advantage to start a fight.

[Kuulvheysoon]

What I've ruled at my table is as follows:

• It's a BA cast.
• It removes disadvantage from all attacks until the start of your next turn, but doesn't grant advantage if you weren't attacking at disadvantage.
• Still Concentration.

I find that it strikes a nice balance (for my players, at least). Concentration, even if only the one round, breaks up shenanigans. ATs still like it, because it lets them ignore disadvantage (if they're willing to use their BA and a cantrip slot), but it doesn't break the game wide open.

Honestly, I waver back and forth every week or so on whether or not it should take Concentration. If it doesn't, it's a really obvious BA use for EKs and others. If it does, it's a relatively high cost for "little" effect.

[gooch]

My suggestion is always this: change the target to "self" so it modifies the next attack roll you make before the end of your next turn, and then make it cause that attack roll to lose disadvantage if it would have had it, and then gain advantage.

This makes it do something unique, keeps the basic idea intact, and removes the weird need to pick a nearby target for your attack a round early. It still isn't breaking bounded accuracy, but it is guaranteeing advantage if you dont lose concentration, even in situations where disadvantage would normally make that impossible. A genuine divination-assisted bit of accuracy.

I like this. It fits the flavour of the spell and gives it the right amount of buff. Nowhere near a 'must pick' but situationally good.

[kazaryu]

Dalinar is right. Characters that would use a cantrip like this would be mostly EK Fighters, Arcane Tricksters, Hexblades, and Bladesingers.

EK is likely using polearm master, AT is using cunning action (including the new Aim), Hexblades have curse/Hex and are also likely using polearm master, Bladesingers are using bladesong or misty step or other BA spells.

So while the bonus action rework is an improvement, I'm not sure who would use it. Of that list, most likely the EK/Bladesinger, but then it uses a precious cantrip slot.


It is "always on", when there isn't something better to do.

warlcoks aren't using their hex every turn. and AT would prefer to cast a BA 'true strike' than aim. because using the aim cunning action prevents movement, whereas true strike would give the same benefit with a different limitation (conc.).

BS use their BA once to start the fight and then...occasionally throughout. they're certainly not casting a BA spell every round.

just because a class *has* a BA they can do, doesn't mean they're using it all the time. 'competition' only matters if there's not enough of whatever's being competed for.

[Kane0]

I model True Strike, Blade Ward and Resistance the same way as Guidance functions.
They all use an action to cast, affect someone you touch so it can be self or shared, last up to a minute until used and give you an extra d4 that can be used to add to attack roll, reduce from damage taken or add to saving throw respectively. In the cast of blade ward the 1d4 scales to 1d6 at level 5, 1d8 at level 11 and 1d10 at level 17 but the other three dont scale.

[sayaijin]

warlcoks aren't using their hex every turn. and AT would prefer to cast a BA 'true strike' than aim. because using the aim cunning action prevents movement, whereas true strike would give the same benefit with a different limitation (conc.).

BS use their BA once to start the fight and then...occasionally throughout. they're certainly not casting a BA spell every round.

just because a class *has* a BA they can do, doesn't mean they're using it all the time. 'competition' only matters if there's not enough of whatever's being competed for.

I'm glad we agree. Bonus action true strike would not "always be on".

Also, if you take BA true strike and booming blade, then your EK or AT are really limited on their other cantrips.

I model True Strike, Blade Ward and Resistance the same way as Guidance functions.
They all use an action to cast, affect someone you touch so it can be self or shared, last up to a minute until used and give you an extra d4 that can be used to add to attack roll, reduce from damage taken or add to saving throw respectively. In the cast of blade ward the 1d4 scales to 1d6 at level 5, 1d8 at level 11 and 1d10 at level 17 but the other three dont scale.

I had considered this. I feel like it would be a different name because "true strike" sounds like one hit as opposed to all hits within a minute.
Alternatively, I thought about making it similar to magic stone where you bless a number of weapons, and those weapons get a bonus for a minute.

[Kane0]

I had considered this. I feel like it would be a different name because "true strike" sounds like one hit as opposed to all hits within a minute.

It is still your next attack (within 1 min). All attacks (within 1 min) would be Bless.

[kazaryu]

I'm glad we agree. Bonus action true strike would not "always be on".

:eyeroll: oh wow, i've never seen anyone be deliberately obtuse so they could ignore what was meant in favor of a strawman. not on the internet.

Also, if you take BA true strike and booming blade, then your EK or AT are really limited on their other cantrips.

ok? so? what argument did you think i was trying to make? or is this just an extension of you being deliberately obtuse?

[sayaijin]

:eyeroll: oh wow, i've never seen anyone be deliberately obtuse so they could ignore what was meant in favor of a strawman. not on the internet.

No strawman. You were talking about other ways those characters could use their bonus actions, so I was agreeing that they wouldn't [B]always[\B] be on. I thought we were agreeing more than disagreeing.

ok? so? what argument did you think i was trying to make? or is this just an extension of you being deliberately obtuse?

I've ruffled some feathers. Sorry about that, didn't mean to. There is a real cost to a bonus action true strike that still costs concentration. No Spirit Shroud, no Shadow Blade, no Hex or Haste. On top of that, some of these characters don't get many cantrips known. That's a real cost too.

Again, sorry that I came across as obtuse. I genuinely thought you were agreeing that there is a lot of competition in the bonus action economy.

[kazaryu]

No strawman. You were talking about other ways those characters could use their bonus actions, so I was agreeing that they wouldn't [B]always[\B] be on. I thought we were agreeing more than disagreeing.


I've ruffled some feathers. Sorry about that, didn't mean to. There is a real cost to a bonus action true strike that still costs concentration. No Spirit Shroud, no Shadow Blade, no Hex or Haste. On top of that, some of these characters don't get many cantrips known. That's a real cost too.

Again, sorry that I came across as obtuse. I genuinely thought you were agreeing that there is a lot of competition in the bonus action economy.

i find it difficult to believe that you genuinely misunderstood me, considering my post was entirely about pointing out how little a BA is actually used in many of the classes you referenced.

and im not actually arguing about whether a BA true strike is balanced. which was the second half of the post you quoted. i was just pointing out that, no, most of those classes (the ones i mentioned) don't actually have options that compete heavily with the BA. at least not in the way you implied. backing up the previous assertion that 'while some classes my occasionally use a BA, they tend to have them free. which is true'. that was the original point being made as well. obviously noone thinks that BA's are going to be available literally always, but in certain classes/builds? they can be left open most of the time, to allow for a BA true strike.

again, im not saying its unbalalnced. im specifically only speaking regarding the availability of BA aspect.

[sayaijin]

i find it difficult to believe that you genuinely misunderstood me, considering my post was entirely about pointing out how little a BA is actually used in many of the classes you referenced.

I can see that now. I think I was skimming the fact that you were listing other things those classes are using BA for.