Where do Wizards staffs come from?

[Tanarii]

A Wizard wielding a staff is a powerful piece of iconography. But where does it come from, originally?

I mean, I know where it comes from for me personally. Dragonlance and Raistlin, when I was about ten years old. But it was embedded in D&D long before that. And Gygax et al must have gotten it from somewhere, to make it such a strong part of the game, originally the only weapon a Magic User could use.

[Mastikator]

I thought it was because of Gandalf. Is it not Gandalf?

[Glorthindel]

Ultimately I guess it was Merlin (as he carries a staff in a lot of versions). Of course, Gandalf (and Saruman) also have their staffs, but they probably ultimately got that from Merlin, but it would have reinforced the imagery.

I believe Merlin's imagery draws a lot from Celtic Bards, and I believe staffs were common in their imagery. So ironically, the iconic imagery of a Wizard is actually a Bard. Gotta love how pop culture merges and reforms things.

[Khedrac]

Looking at the TV Tropes web-page the earliest listed examples I could see (under "Literature") were The Lord of the Rings and some of Conan's adversaries.

Now, Gandalf first has his staff in The Hobbit I think (and I just re-read it so I am annoyed that I am not certain) which gives a date of either 1937 (Hobbit) or 1954 (LotR)
The listed Conan opponents come from when he was a king, but I don't know how far down the Conan stories that is - and the first Conan stories were published in 1932.

Personally I cannot think of any example that I know predates the 20th century so it is likely that the influence for most is Tolkein, but he may have been influenced by other sources himself.

[Satinavian]

I always assumed staffs and wands drew from the same source and at least stage magicians seem to have used wands for a really long time. It seems that wands (and quite long ones) were also regularly used in 19ths century plays as accessories for magic users, so the public image is way older than Tolkien.

[Vahnavoi]

It's fair to say D&D got wizards' staves from Tolkien, since Gandalf has been carrying one since the Hobbit. But where did Tolkien get it? Gandalf's description (as well as the other wizards') echo {Scrubbed}, but staffs, scepters and rods have been around as symbols of power for ages. I mean, a dude in a fancy robe and a hat, carrying a staff, possessing of unearthly wisdom? {Scrubbed} Years of D&D may have brainwashed you into thinking wizards and clerics are two totally different things, but if you pay attention you'll realize the description of wizards owe much to the same sources.

[Willie the Duck]

Tolkien in the 20th century; Prospero, {Scrubbed} in the past 1000 years or so; {Scrubbed}

And Gygax et al must have gotten it from somewhere, to make it such a strong part of the game, originally the only weapon a Magic User could use.

There was no staff in the game originally. A Magic User's original singular weapon to use was daggers.

[OldTrees1]

Joke: A Druid picked it up in the woods. (Actually, this might be literal for Merlin)

Serious: The magic staff seems really old. {Scrubbed}

[Batcathat]

The influences already mentioned are probably the main reason, but I imagine the fact that wizards are traditionally often depticted as old men might contribute. Even someone who can reshape reality with a thought might need some help with walking at that point (especially when you're an adventurer, I suspect. Very active lifestyle).

[Morty]

Important people carrying staves, scepters and rods as a symbol of their authority is pretty old. This included scholars and priests, so it's not a big leap from that to wizards.

[Osuniev]

{Scrubbed}

[Willie the Duck]

Important people carrying staves, scepters and rods as a symbol of their authority is pretty old. This included scholars and priests, so it's not a big leap from that to wizards.

{Scrub the post, scrub the quote}

{Scrubbed}

[Calthropstu]

Man pick up stick. Hit big cat. He wise and strong. Stick have power.

Probably somewhere around there.

[Anonymouswizard]

The clearest part of the ancestry is {Scrubbed}

If course ultimately it probably comes down to how back in the old days before writing there was a point where he who had the biggest stick ruled, because he had the best weapon (I am simplifying social dynamics like crazy here). From there staffs became symbols of authority, and from there they began to be given to the folkloric (moving into mythical) old Wise Men as a mixture of a walking stick and sign of their intellectual authority. Then the Wise Men moved into being magicians, possibly before they gained the staffs, and so a magical Wise Man is associated with a staff.

{Scrubbed}

[Telok]

When a mommy wizard and a daddy wizard...

Really it's more these:

{Scrub the post, scrub the quote}

Man pick up stick. Hit big cat. He wise and strong. Stick have power.

Probably somewhere around there.

In ancient history the differences between the concepts of "priest", "wizard", "king", and "minor god" were very blurry. It mostly seems to stem from a "there's a person far away with a lot of power who can nod their head and wipe your town off the face of the earth" sort of thing. It helps to consider "miracle" = "magic" = "awesome power" and therefore the difference between an ancient king and a miracle worker is pretty immaterial to the farmers in the provinces.

Over 4k years and lots of language changes going from "leader's stick of command" to "magic staff" isn't a big leap.

[Man_Over_Game]

Man pick up stick. Hit big cat. He wise and strong. Stick have power.

Probably somewhere around there.

All this time, we thought it was the wizard, when it was actually the STICK.

[Martin Greywolf]

There are several sources, {Scrubbed}

What they have in common, though, is the effectiveness of staff as a weapon. If you have a story where a random old guy suddenly reveals himself as a shockingly competent fighter, your options for giving him a weapon are limited. Swords, axes and such are easy to spot and hard to conceal, daggers and knives are too short to be effective, and often associated with low status (though not always). Staff, on the other hand, is not only as effective as one of the most effective weapons of its time - the spear - it can also be a disguised spear.

That's where sticks as symbols of authority originate from - take a weapon associated with soldiering, like a sword, mace or a spear, and decorate it so much the original function is effectively lost.

[Tanarii]

So it sounds like D&D from Gandalf from {Scrubbed}

I did see that Wikipedia has an illustration of Merlin from the 1800s with a staff, so it goes back at least that far directly.

[Lord Raziere]

From trees, I would guess, like every other wooden tool.

[Duff]

From trees, I would guess, like every other wooden tool.

Or hired locally

[Willie the Duck]

Blue light special at Kmart?

[Calthropstu]

Blue light special at Kmart?

Dunno, but last time I tried to pick up a wizards staff it was brown and sticky.

[FrogInATopHat]

Man pick up stick. Hit big cat. He wise and strong. Stick have power.

Probably somewhere around there.

And the beauty of this is that clearly [whoever this was] was very wise.

[FrogInATopHat]

Over 4k years and lots of language changes going from "leader's stick of command" to "magic staff" isn't a big leap.

And in some cases, there was a formality to certain commands, so they had to be issued while the hat was on, or the stick was in-hand, or the mask was worn, or whatever.

So you might not have died if something to that effect was said while the stick wasn't held whereas you would if King Murderous IV was appropriately attired.

[LibraryOgre]

Blue light special at Kmart?

Shop Smart. Shop S-Mart.

[SpyOne]

The listed Conan opponents come from when he was a king, but I don't know how far down the Conan stories that is - and the first Conan stories were published in 1932.

The Conan stories were not written or published in chronological order, and he was a king in the very first one (which was probably chronologically last).

[Duiker]

{scrubbed}

[truemane]

Metamagic Mod: this subject probably can't be reasonably discussed without making real-world mythological references, even slightly or accidentally. Thread closed.