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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    thoroughlyS's Avatar

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    Default D&D 5.1E — Cantrips

    Index

    I have been playing Dungeons & Dragons for about half of my life, first introduced to the game at the tail end of v3.5. I have been playing 5E since its release, and it is my favorite version of the game. I feel like the rules are simple, elegant, and cohesive... for the most part. But no game is truly perfect, even to an individual, and there are some rules that I feel were suboptimally implemented. Some build options in the game outshine others, leading to an oversaturation in play. Meanwhile, other build options are so underwhelming that they are neglected an are often called for reworks.

    In this thread, I present my list of houserules (listed in red) which have the sole purpose of trying to make bad options good, and the best options merely great. In doing so, I hope to allow players at my table a greater breadth of concepts to explore, simply by making everything worth playing. These changes are to cantrips, many of which are just flatly too bad to consider taking with a limited number of cantrip slots.

    One general change was a boost to the damage of many of these cantrips with the following logic. The most basic damage-dealing cantrip is 1d8 with a rider at a range of 60 feet. From that base, there are trade-offs that can be made. For example, making the cantrip touch range should come with a sizable increase to damage to make up for having to get in close. Or a particularly good rider might require dropping the range or damage.

    Acid Splash
    Conjuration cantrip
    Casting Time: 1 action
    Range: 60 feet
    Components: V, S
    Duration: Instantaneous
    You hurl a bubble of acid at one creature within range, or at two creatures within range that are within 5 feet of each other. A target must succeed on a Dexterity saving throw or take 1d8 acid damage.
    This spell’s damage increases by 1d8 when you reach 5th level (2d8), 11th level (3d8), and 17th level (4d8).

    Caustic Touch
    Conjuration cantrip
    Casting Time: 1 action
    Range: Touch
    Components: V, S, M (a pinch of salt)
    Duration: Instantaneous
    You plant your palm firmly on a creature or object, and deliver a potent acid. Make a melee spell attack against the target. On a hit, the target takes 1d12 acid damage, and the first time it makes a saving throw before the end of your next turn, it must roll a d4 and subtract the number rolled from the save.
    The spell's damage increases by 1d12 when you reach 5th level (2d12), 11th level (3d12), and 17th level (4d12).

    Spoiler: Notes
    Show
    This cantrip is introduced because I changed primal savagery below. The theme of that spell made the acid damage feel inappropriate, but I liked having a touch range acid cantrip (plus there is only one other cantrip that deals acid damage). Compared to the official primal savagery, this has significantly better damage and an actual rider to account for the fact that your character is having to get into melee range for this.

    Frostbite
    Evocation cantrip
    Casting Time: 1 action
    Range: 60 feet
    Components: V, S
    Duration: Instantaneous
    You cause numbing frost to form on one creature that you can see within range. The target must succeed on a Constitution saving throw or take 1d6 cold damage, and have disadvantage on the next weapon attack roll it makes before the end of its next turn.
    The spell's damage increases by 1d6 when you reach 5th level (2d6), 11th level (3d6), and 17th level (4d6).
    Spoiler: Notes
    Show
    The incredibly narrow rider does not justify the low damage or bad saving throw. I understand not wanting to step on vicious mockery's toes, but this cantrip is still worse because it requires a CON save.

    Infestation
    Conjuration cantrip
    Casting Time: 1 action
    Range: 30 feet
    Components: V, S, M (a living flea)
    Duration: Instantaneous
    You cause a cloud of mites, fleas, and other parasites to appear momentarily on one creature you can see within range. Make a melee spell attack against the target. On a hit, the target takes 1d6 poison damage, and moves 5 feet in a random direction if it can move and its speed is at least 5 feet. Roll a d4 for the direction: 1, north; 2, south; 3, east; or 4, west. This movement doesn't provoke opportunity attacks, and If the direction rolled is blocked, the target doesn’t move. Creatures immune to poison damage aren’t affected by this spell.
    The spell's damage increases by 1d6 when you reach 5th level (2d6), 11th level (3d6), and 17th level (4d6).
    Spoiler: Notes
    Show
    The official version of this cantrip was absolutely abysmal. Terrible range, saving throw, damage, damage type, and rider. Why would you ever want to cast this? By allowing this to provoke opportunity attacks, this instantly becomes a strong (if unreliable) rider. I also make this a spell attack (to represent the bugs biting) which makes it significantly more likely to hit. Because of that, it doesn't need to require sight any more (sight is only required for cantrips with saving throws).

    Kinesis
    Evocation cantrip
    Casting Time: 1 action
    Range: 60 feet
    Components: S
    Duration: Instantaneous
    You thrust your fist forwards and project a focused beam of telekinetic force at one creature you can see within range. The target must succeed on a Strength saving throw or take 1d8 bludgeoning damage, and be pushed up to 10 feet away from you.
    The spell's damage increases by 1d8 when you reach 5th level (2d8), 11th level (3d8), and 17th level (4d8).

    Spoiler: Notes
    Show
    This is actually adapted from an old Unearthed Arcana. I include it because bludgeoning was the only damage type that wasn't represented yet.

    Lightning Lure
    Evocation cantrip
    Casting Time: 1 action
    Range: 30 feet
    Components: V, S
    Duration: Instantaneous
    You create a lash of lightning energy that strikes at one creature that you can see within range. The target must succeed on a Strength saving throw or take 1d8 lightning damage, and if they are Large or smaller, be pulled up to 10 feet in a straight line toward you.
    This spell's damage increases by 1d8 when you reach 5th level (2d8), 11th level (3d8), and 17th level (4d8).
    Spoiler: Notes
    Show
    The use case for official lightning lure was so niche. How often do you really want to pull something directly into melee range? I give this the same functionality as thorn whip which is still better because it requires an attack roll and therefore will hit more often.

    Mind Sliver
    Enchantment cantrip
    Casting Time: 1 action
    Range: 60 feet
    Components: V
    Duration: 1 round
    You drive a disorienting spike of psychic energy into the mind of one creature you can see within range. The target must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw or take 1d6 psychic damage, and the first time it makes a saving throw before the end of your next turn, it must roll a d4 and subtract the number rolled from the save.
    The spell's damage increases by 1d6 when you reach 5th level (2d6), 11th level (3d6), and 17th level (4d6).
    Spoiler: Notes
    Show
    Am I crazy, or is official mind sliver really good? Being based on an INT save meant it was incredibly likely to succeed, and the rider can enable fight-ending spells. And if your party has a single other caster, this can all happen in one round. I make this a Wisdom save to bring it back in line with other effects.

    Poison Spray
    Conjuration cantrip
    Casting Time: 1 action
    Range: Self (10-foot cone)
    Components: V, S
    Duration: Instantaneous
    You extend your hand and project a stream of noxious gas from your palm. Each creature in a 10-foot cone must succeed on a Constitution saving throw or take 1d12 poison damage.
    This spell's damage increases by 1d12 when you reach 5th level (2d12), 11th level (3d12), and 17th level (4d12).
    Spoiler: Notes
    Show
    The poster-boy of the bad cantrips. Terrible range, saving throw, and damage type for barely more damage than ray of frost. Not even a rider. I make it a cone so that you can theoretically hit multiple creatures.

    Primal Savagery
    Transmutation cantrip
    Casting Time: 1 action
    Range: Self
    Components: S
    Duration: Instantaneous
    You channel primal magic to cause your fingernails to sharpen into ferocious claws. Make a melee spell attack against a creature within 5 feet of you. On a hit, the target takes 1d12 slashing damage. After you make the attack, your fingernails return to normal.
    You can make additional attacks at higher levels: two attacks when you reach 5th level, three attacks at 11th level, and four attacks at 17th level. You can make these attacks against the same target or different ones, and can move between these attacks.
    Spoiler: Notes
    Show
    A huge and not-necessarily-warranted change. The theme of this spell causing you to grow claws and savagely tear into your enemies really felt like it should have some more oomph behind it. I model my change off of eldritch blast, making this the only other cantrip that grants additional attacks. I think this is fine because it is also a class exclusive spell, and it doesn't have any of the support to make it really beefy.

    Produce Flame
    Conjuration cantrip
    Casting Time: 1 action
    Range: Self
    Components: V, S
    Duration: 10 minutes
    A flickering flame appears in your hand. The flame remains there for the duration and harms neither you nor your equipment. The flame sheds bright light in a 10-foot radius and dim light for an additional 10 feet. The spell ends if you dismiss it as an action or if you cast it again.
    You can also attack with the flame, although doing so ends the spell. When you cast this spell, or as an action on a later turn, you can hurl some of the flame at a creature within 30 feet of you. Make a ranged spell attack against the target. On a hit, the target takes 1d8 fire damage.
    This spell’s damage increases by 1d8 when you reach 5th level (2d8), 11th level (3d8), and 17th level (4d8).
    Spoiler: Notes
    Show
    This change is just to make the spell less clunky to keep track of. If you are in a dark cavern, having to remember that the cavern is lit up when you cast this (and therefore when you make the attack roll), but dark afterwards is annoying.

    Sacred Flame
    Evocation cantrip
    Casting Time: 1 action
    Range: 60 feet
    Components: V, S
    Duration: Instantaneous
    Flame-like radiance descends on a creature that you can see within range. The target must succeed on a Dexterity saving throw or take 1d8 radiant damage. The target gains no benefit from cover for this saving throw.
    This spell’s damage increases by 1d8 when you reach 5th level (2d8), 11th level (3d8), and 17th level (4d8).
    Spoiler: Notes
    Show
    This might seem like an odd change, but if you think about it the rider for sacred flame doesn't really do much. Every spell with a WIS saving throw effectively has this rider by default. I understand that the cleric isn't supposed to have very powerful damage cantrips, which is why I didn't bump the damage or replace the rider. But if this is going to be a rider, I want it to actually have a use. So if you know for a fact that an enemy is behind total cover (e.g. you saw them run behind a corner) you can pray to your god and have holy fire appear on them even when they think they are untargetable.

    Shocking Grasp
    Evocation cantrip
    Casting Time: 1 action
    Range: Touch
    Components: V, S
    Duration: Instantaneous
    Lightning springs from your hand to deliver a shock to a creature you try to touch. Make a melee spell attack against the target. You have advantage on the attack roll if the target is wearing armor made of metal. On a hit, the target takes 1d12 lightning damage, and it can’t take reactions until the start of its next turn.
    This spell’s damage increases by 1d12 when you reach 5th level (2d12), 11th level (3d12), and 17th level (4d12).
    Spoiler: Notes
    Show
    As Treantmonk points out, the main use case for this spell is if you find yourself in melee range and want to get out of it. You take this cantrip so that you don't "waste" your action disengaging. But because you trade a guaranteed disengage for a potential disengage with some damage, you make it unreliable. And the damage you deal isn't worth the risk. So I just make the damage as close to worth it as I can.

    Sword Burst
    Conjuration cantrip
    Casting Time: 1 action
    Range: Self (5-foot radius)
    Components: V
    Duration: Instantaneous
    You create a momentary circle of spectral blades that sweep around you. Each other creature within 5 feet of you must succeed on a Dexterity saving throw or take 1d10 force damage.
    This spell's damage increases by 1d10 when you reach 5th level (2d10), 11th level (3d10), and 17th level (4d10).

    Thorn Whip
    Transmutation cantrip
    Casting Time: 1 action
    Range: 30 feet
    Components: V, S, M (the stem of a plant with thorns)
    Duration: Instantaneous
    You create a long, vine-like whip covered in thorns that lashes out at your command toward a creature within range. Make a melee spell attack against the target. On a hit, the target takes 1d8 piercing damage, and if the creature is Large or smaller, be pulled up to 10 feet in a straight line toward you.
    This spell's damage increases by 1d8 when you reach 5th level (2d8), 11th level (3d8), and 17th level (4d8).

    Thunderclap
    Evocation cantrip
    Casting Time: 1 action
    Range: Self (5-foot radius)
    Components: S
    Duration: Instantaneous
    You snap your fingers and create a burst of thunderous sound that can be heard up to 100 feet away. Each other creature within 5 feet of you must succeed on a Constitution saving throw or take 1d10 thunder damage and be unable to use its reaction until the start of its next turn.
    This spell's damage increases by 1d10 when you reach 5th level (2d10), 11th level (3d10), and 17th level (4d10).
    Spoiler: Notes
    Show
    For some reason, thunderclap got the worst deal of all of the "burst" cantrips. It is the only one which requires somatic components, and it has the worst saving throw. Rather than make it verbal only, which would still leave it the weakest, I give it a rider so now you have a reason to take it instead of the others.

    Vicious Mockery
    Enchantment cantrip
    Casting Time: 1 action
    Range: 60 feet
    Components: V
    Duration: Instantaneous
    You unleash a string of insults laced with subtle enchantments at a creature you can see within range. If the target can hear you (though it need not understand you), it must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw or take 1d6 psychic damage, and have disadvantage on the next attack roll it makes before the end of its next turn.
    This spell's damage increases by 1d6 when you reach 5th level (2d6), 11th level (3d6), and 17th level (4d6).
    Spoiler: Notes
    Show
    This is effectively the only cantrip with d4 damage dice and it really doesn't need to be. Even a 1d6 damage die is already bad.

    Word of Radiance
    Evocation cantrip
    Casting Time: 1 action
    Range: Self (5-foot radius)
    Components: V
    Duration: Instantaneous
    You utter a divine word, and burning radiance erupts from you. Each creature of your choice that you can see within 5 feet of you must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw or take 1d10 radiant damage.
    The spell's damage increases by 1d10 when you reach 5th level (2d10), 11th level (3d10), and 17th level (4d10).

    Blade Ward
    Abjuration cantrip
    Casting Time: 1 action
    Range: Touch
    Components: V, S
    Duration: 1 round
    You trace a sigil of warding in the air and touch one willing creature. Until the end of your next turn, the target has resistance against bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage dealt by weapon attacks.
    Spoiler: Notes
    Show
    The official blade ward is comparable to the Dodge action, which doesn't cost a cantrip slot. I make this more versatile to justify the opportunity cost.

    Control Flames
    Transmutation cantrip
    Casting Time: 1 action
    Range: 30 feet
    Components: S
    Duration: Up to 1 hour
    You choose an area of nonmagical flame that you can see within range and that fits within a 5-foot cube. You manipulate it in one of the following ways:
    • You instantaneously move the flame through the air to a space within range. The flame ignites flammable objects in that space that aren’t being worn or carried.
    • You instantaneously extinguish the flames within the cube.
    • You double or halve the area of bright light and dim light cast by the flame, change its color, or both. The change lasts for 1 hour.
    • You cause simple shapes—such as the vague form of a creature, an inanimate object, or a location—to appear within the flames and animate as you like. The shapes last for 1 hour.

    If you cast this spell multiple times, you can have up to three non-instantaneous effects created by it active at a time, and you can dismiss such an effect as an action.
    Spoiler: Notes
    Show
    A fun expansion to the effect that lets you feel like a fire bender.

    Dancing Lights
    Evocation cantrip
    Casting Time: 1 action
    Range: 120 feet
    Components: V, S, M (a bit of phosphorus or wychwood, or a glowworm)
    Duration: 1 minute
    You create up to four torch-sized lights within range, making them appear as torches, lanterns, or glowing orbs that hover in the air for the duration. You can also combine the four lights into one glowing vaguely humanoid form of Medium size. Whichever form you choose, each light sheds dim light in a 10-foot radius.
    As a bonus action on your turn, you can move the lights up to 60 feet to a new spot within range. A light must be within 20 feet of another light created by this spell, and a light winks out if it exceeds the spell's range. The spell ends if you cast it again or dismiss it as an action.
    Spoiler: Notes
    Show
    The official dancing lights is not worth concentration.

    Friends
    Enchantment cantrip
    Casting Time: 1 action
    Range: 30 feet
    Components: S
    Duration: Instantaneous
    You weave magic into your words, and attempt to beguile a humanoid you can see within range. The target must make a Wisdom saving throw. On a failed save, you immediately make a Charisma check with advantage directed at the target, and the target doesn’t realize that you used magic to influence its mood. A target automatically succeeds on this saving throw if it can’t be charmed, it can’t hear you, or if you or your companions are fighting it. A target has advantage on the saving throw if it has already succeeded on a saving throw against this spell within the last 24 hours.
    Spoiler: Notes
    Show
    A complete rework based on the "Jedi mind trick". The official friends cantrip is bad at the thing its supposed to do. I understand why. The designers wanted an enchantment cantrip that let you influence other creatures, but they didn't want it to be spammable so they saddled it with what they thought was a fair restriction. But this was early in the game, when it was impossible to tell how good things would be. The restriction ended up being too much, and no one takes this spell for its intended use.

    Gust
    Transmutation cantrip
    Casting Time: 1 action
    Range: 30 feet
    Components: V, S
    Duration: Up to 1 hour
    You seize the air and compel it to create one of the following effects at a point you can see within range:
    • One Medium or smaller creature within range must succeed on a Strength saving throw or be pushed up to 5 feet away from you.
    • You cause the air to swirl around an object that isn’t being worn or carried and that weighs no more than 10 pounds, suspending it in the air in its space for 1 hour. As an action, you can move any suspended objects to an unoccupied space within range. The effect ends on an object if a creature grabs it.
    • You create an instantaneous harmless sensory effect using air, such as causing leaves to rustle, wind to slam shutters closed, or your clothing to ripple in a breeze.

    If you cast this spell multiple times, you can have up to three non-instantaneous effects created by it active at a time, and you can dismiss such an effect as an action.
    Spoiler: Notes
    Show
    The official gust is the only element cantrip that the designers didn't give at least one non-instantaneous effect. I expanded the "push an object" effect into something more fun to whip out during downtime. I tried to keep it from being anywhere near as useful as mage hand.

    Mending
    Transmutation cantrip
    Casting Time: 1 action
    Range: Touch
    Components: V, S
    Duration: Instantaneous
    You trace your hand across a single break or tear on an object—such as two halves of a broken key, a torn cloak, or a leaking wineskin. As long as the break or tear is no larger than 1 foot in any dimension, you mend it, leaving no trace of the former damage.
    This spell can physically repair a magic item or construct, but the spell can't restore magic to such an object.
    Spoiler: Notes
    Show
    I never really got why this spell was so slow. It's already inherently slow in that it only fixes a single break at a time, so you can't repair something like shattered glass all at once.

    Message
    Transmutation cantrip
    Casting Time: 1 action
    Range: 120 feet
    Components: S, M (a short piece of copper wire)
    Duration: Instantaneous
    You point your finger toward a creature within range and whisper a message. The target (and only the target) hears the message and can reply in a whisper that only you can hear (no action required).
    You can cast this spell through solid objects if you are familiar with the target and know it is beyond the barrier. Magical silence, 1 foot of stone, 1 inch of common metal, a thin sheet of lead, or 3 feet of wood blocks the spell. The spell doesn't have to follow a straight line and can travel freely around corners or through openings.
    Spoiler: Notes
    Show
    This is moreso a clarification than anything. I've seen confusion as to if your message is the verbal component of the spell. In 5E verbal components are supposed to be the magical chants and stuff you do to cast a spell. Why would those kinds of components be on the spell for silently communicating? That just seems clunky. I also specify that the person talking back doesn't require any action.

    Mold Earth
    Transmutation cantrip
    Casting Time: 1 action
    Range: 30 feet
    Components: S
    Duration: Up to 1 hour
    You choose an area of dirt or stone that you can see within range and that fits within a 5-foot cube. You manipulate it in one of the following ways:
    • If you target an area of loose earth, you can instantaneously excavate it, move it along the ground, and deposit it in an unoccupied space within range. This movement doesn't involve enough force to cause damage and can’t move through a space occupied by a creature.
    • You cause shapes, colors, or both to appear on the dirt or stone, spelling out words, creating images, or shaping patterns. The changes last for 1 hour.
    • If the dirt or stone you target is on the ground, you instantaneously cause it to become difficult terrain. Alternatively, you can cause the ground to become normal terrain if it is already difficult terrain.

    If you cast this spell multiple times, you can have no more than two of its non-instantaneous effects active at a time, and you can dismiss such an effect as an action.
    Spoiler: Notes
    Show
    This change is to match the expansions to the other element cantrips, while still preventing you from digging a creature into a hole deeper than 5 feet. I don't see any problem with moving a mound of dirt 30 feet along the ground with magic.

    Resistance
    Abjuration cantrip
    Casting Time: 1 action
    Range: 30 feet
    Components: V, S
    Duration: Concentration, up to 1 minute
    You place a ward upon one willing creature within range. Once before the spell ends, the target can gain advantage on one saving throw. It can do so before or after making the saving throw. The spell then ends.
    Spoiler: Notes
    Show
    Unlike guidance, the use case for resistance is quite narrow. When you make a saving throw, there are very few times where 1d4 will change the outcome of the result. If you cast this spell, it might not ever go off, and that feels bad. I turn it into advantage, so that if your target rolls a 1, they can use this effect, and you have made a difference.

    Shape Water
    Transmutation cantrip
    Casting Time: 1 action
    Range: 30 feet
    Components: S
    Duration: Up to 1 hour
    You choose an area of water that you can see within range and that fits within a 5-foot cube. You manipulate it in one of the following ways:
    • You instantaneously move the water through the air to a space within range. This movement doesn't have enough force to cause damage.
    • You cause simple shapes—such as the vague form of a creature, an inanimate object, or a location—to appear within the water and animate as you like. The shapes last for 1 hour.
    • You change the water's color, clarity, or temperature for 1 hour. The water must be changed in the same way throughout and can’t be changed enough to deal damage.
    • You freeze the water for 1 hour, provided that there are no creatures in it.

    If you cast this spell multiple times, you can have no more than two of its non-instantaneous effects active at a time, and you can dismiss such an effect as an action.
    Spoiler: Notes
    Show
    A fun expansion to the effect that les you feel like a water bender.

    Thaumaturgy
    Transmutation cantrip
    Casting Time: 1 action
    Range: 30 feet
    Components: V
    Duration: Up to 1 minute
    You manifest a minor wonder, a sign of supernatural power, within range. You create one of the following magical effects within range:
    • Your voice booms and can be heard from up to 300 feet away for 1 minute.
    • You harmlessly manipulate the elements in simple ways—such as making flames flicker or change color, causing tremors in the ground within range, or making a bowl of water rise into a pillar—for 1 minute.
    • You create an instantaneous sound that originates from a point of your choice within range, such as a rumble of thunder, the cry of a raven, or ominous whispers.
    • You instantaneously cause an unlocked door or window to open or shut. This movement can be as drastic or subtle as you want, but it doesn’t have enough force to cause damage.
    • You alter one aspect of your appearance—such as the color of your eyes, or manifesting markings on your skin—for 1 minute. You can have this alteration produce dim light in your space.

    If you cast this spell multiple times, you can have up to three of its 1-minute effects active at a time, and you can dismiss such an effect as an action.
    Spoiler: Notes
    Show
    Of all the "show-off" cantrips, the official thaumaturgy has the most narrow set of use cases. You can basically only use it to evoke a "wrath of the gods" feel in conversation. I expand on the options given, so that you can use it to show off to peasants about as often as you could with druidcraft or prestidigitation.

    True Strike
    Divination cantrip
    Casting Time: 1 action
    Range: 30 feet
    Components: V, S
    Duration: Concentration, up to 1 minute
    You grant a brief insight to one willing creature within range. Once before the spell ends, the target can gain advantage on one attack roll. It can do so before or after making the attack roll. The spell then ends.
    Spoiler: Notes
    Show
    Another complete rework. this is basically the Help action with a range of 30 feet. Not great, but definitely better than the original. Now you can give the rogue sneak attack, or the paladin a better chance to crit.

    Spell Lists
    The following spells have been added to the class spell lists.
    Bard
    mind sliver
    Spoiler: Notes
    Show
    Bards already get vicious mockery, so I don't see a problem with adding the other psychic damage cantrip.

    Druid
    caustic touch
    shocking grasp

    Spoiler: Notes
    Show
    I added caustic touch to preserve the functionality of the official primal savagery. I also add shocking grasp, because I don't get why druids don't have a lightning damage cantrip.

    Sorcerer
    caustic touch
    kinesis

    Spoiler: Notes
    Show
    Now that the growing claws flavor is not a part of the acid cantrip, I think it fits for sorcerers.

    Warlock
    kinesis

    Spoiler: Additional Notes
    Show
    Some people may wonder why I don't give the wizard kinesis. I kind of like the idea that they don't have a spell for just throwing raw psychic energy out. Instead they have the "refined application" of mind sliver.
    Last edited by thoroughlyS; 2021-12-12 at 04:02 AM.
    Goblin in the Playground

    Most 3.5 thing I've ever seen: RAW on RAW. Love you, Curmudgeon.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Composer99's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2013

    Default Re: D&D 5.1E — Cantrips

    Pretty solid, overall.

    I'm assuming a cantrip that doesn't appear on this list isn't modified, but is still in the game - eldritch blast, fire bolt, and guidance, for instance?

    As usual, I feel kind of bad that most of the remarks below are negative/critical, but I guess that's often the case - the good stuff or stuff we agree with goes unremarked-upon, precisely because it's good or we agree with it.


    I'm not convinced primal savagery is a good pick-up for a druid, but I definitely dig the thematic change.

    A druid who wants to fight in melee is probably going to play moon druid and rely on their wildshape for the pool of extra hit points. Most wild shape forms can deal comparable damage to primal savagery because of some combination of adding an ability modifier to their damage rolls, getting multiattack, and/or becoming bigger. (Also, turning into elementals.)

    A druid who doesn't want to fight in melee probably isn't going to pick primal savagery.

    Dunno if there's a way to thread that needle. Of course, if your player druids are picking up and enjoying primal savagery, then I'm happy to be mistaken.


    I'm not convinced about the changes to resistance and true strike.

    IMO, with advantage they make the spells too strong. Sure, they take an action and use concentration, so they're very poor in-combat picks. But with their minute-long duration, they become spammable buffs, especially for characters who pick them up with a feat like magic initiate, dipping a level of a class that gets them, or getting them via a 1/3rd-caster subclass that doesn't have many better concentration-based buffs. Going to poke down a hall for traps? Spam resistance. About to open that dungeon door where you think there's a fight? Spam true strike.

    If you stick with the +1d4, they're still probably "just cast these all the time" spells in the same situations, but without the problems advantage gives you. Also, the one thing +1d4 gets you that advantage doesn't is that you can achieve DCs you can't otherwise.


    One last nitpick: the text in infestation about opportunity attacks was a clarification, not an exception to the rules.

    Opportunity attacks already don't trigger when you're moved against your will (that is, when you move without spending movement, an action, or reaction).

    Since I didn't see any changes to the base rules for opportunity attacks in your "Playing the Game" post, that hasn't changed, so infestation's forced movement still doesn't provoke opportunity attacks.
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    Default Re: D&D 5.1E — Cantrips

    Quote Originally Posted by Composer99 View Post
    I'm assuming a cantrip that doesn't appear on this list isn't modified, but is still in the game - eldritch blast, fire bolt, and guidance, for instance?
    Correct. I will note if stuff gets removed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Composer99 View Post
    As usual, I feel kind of bad that most of the remarks below are negative/critical, but I guess that's often the case - the good stuff or stuff we agree with goes unremarked-upon, precisely because it's good or we agree with it.
    That is the nature of critique, and I accept it as well. If you only have four problems with my list of changes to ~24 spells, then I call that a win.
    Quote Originally Posted by Composer99 View Post
    I'm not convinced primal savagery is a good pick-up for a druid, but I definitely dig the thematic change.
    Yeah, I can't really make it comparable to Wild Shape, but I felt like the flavor was deserving of eye-catching mechanics at the very least.
    Quote Originally Posted by Composer99 View Post
    I'm not convinced about the changes to resistance and true strike.

    IMO, with advantage they make the spells too strong. Sure, they take an action and use concentration, so they're very poor in-combat picks. But with their minute-long duration, they become spammable buffs, especially for characters who pick them up with a feat like magic initiate, dipping a level of a class that gets them, or getting them via a 1/3rd-caster subclass that doesn't have many better concentration-based buffs. Going to poke down a hall for traps? Spam resistance. About to open that dungeon door where you think there's a fight? Spam true strike.
    Because the game's rules emphasize combat over the other two pillars of the game, combat makes up a majority of the challenges in D&D. I want these to at least have a niche application in combat. I'm not really all that worried about affecting trap encounters, because I am not convinced they are that common. In a game which focusses on traps, maybe just have a gentleman's agreement to reserve it to combat? Because making a d4 restricted its usage to such a specific circumstance. You had to roll low enough to fail, but within 4 of the DC. That made the spell not worth casting.
    Quote Originally Posted by Composer99 View Post
    One last nitpick: the text in infestation about opportunity attacks was a clarification, not an exception to the rules.

    Opportunity attacks already don't trigger when you're moved against your will (that is, when you move without spending movement, an action, or reaction).
    The intention is that this spell can provoke opportunity effects. I will have to figure out a way to word that, I guess.
    Last edited by thoroughlyS; 2021-09-24 at 03:03 PM.
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    Default Re: D&D 5.1E — Cantrips

    Quote Originally Posted by thoroughlyS View Post
    Friends
    Enchantment cantrip
    Casting Time: 1 action
    Range: 30 feet
    Components: S
    Duration: Instantaneous
    You weave magic into your words, and attempt to beguile a humanoid you can see within range. The target must make a Wisdom saving throw. On a failed save, you immediately make a Charisma check with advantage directed at the target, and the target doesn’t realize that you used magic to influence its mood. A target automatically succeeds on this saving throw if it can’t be charmed, it can’t hear you, or if you or your companions are fighting it. A target has advantage on the saving throw if it has already succeeded on a saving throw against this spell within the last 24 hours.
    Spoiler: Notes
    Show
    A complete rework based on the "Jedi mind trick". The official friends cantrip is bad at the thing its supposed to do. I understand why. The designers wanted an enchantment cantrip that let you influence other creatures, but they didn't want it to be spammable so they saddled it with what they thought was a fair restriction. But this was early in the game, when it was impossible to tell how good things would be. The restriction ended up being too much, and no one takes this spell for its intended use.

    Okay, but what does it actually do? It says you can make a charisma check, but it doesn't say what that charisma check does...

    Do you mean that a charisma check that your would have made anyway is now made with advantage?

    Edit: Okay, I see that it makes the Wisdom save be unnoticed, but there's no mechanical description of the effects of the failed wisdom save. It just says "beguile," and then lists off the description of what the conditions are that allow resistance to the spell.
    Last edited by Argis13; 2021-05-16 at 12:32 PM.

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    Default Re: D&D 5.1E — Cantrips

    The usage for the new friends cantrip is: you encounter a humanoid that you want to influence in some way (e.g. deceive, intimidate, persuade). You cast this spell as part of a conversation with them. If they fail their save, you make your Charisma check to influence them with advantage and they explicitly do not realize you have used magic on them. The intention if they succeed on their saving throw is that they are aware that you just cast a spell. After all, you're waving your hand over them as you talk.
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    Default Re: D&D 5.1E — Cantrips

    Quote Originally Posted by thoroughlyS View Post
    The usage for the new friends cantrip is: you encounter a humanoid that you want to influence in some way (e.g. deceive, intimidate, persuade). You cast this spell as part of a conversation with them. If they fail their save, you make your Charisma check to influence them with advantage and they explicitly do not realize you have used magic on them. The intention if they succeed on their saving throw is that they are aware that you just cast a spell. After all, you're waving your hand over them as you talk.
    That's a helpful clarification (I was wondering the same thing as Argis13) but it still creates a little wrinkle. Generally, charisma checks to influence a creature socially is a DM-instigated thing, which is as it should be. I feel like this spell suddenly becomes almost mandatory for face-type characters, since it is now one of the only mechanical effects in the game that lets you, the player, dictate when and where your Charisma skills get rolled, by casting the spell, or at least it puts pressure on the DM to allow you to do so.

    Here's a change that would preserve what you intend for the spell while not shaking up roleplaying dynamics so dramatically: make the casting time "1 Reaction, which you take when you make a Charisma check to influence a creature", a la Shield or Feather Fall. That way it can be used reliably to help your Charisma checks, while still keeping whether those checks are made or not the purview of the DM.

    Yes, the cantrip still varies wildly in usefulness depending on your DM... but the same can be said of Charisma-based skills in the first place.
    Last edited by Catullus64; 2021-05-18 at 09:31 AM.
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    Default Re: D&D 5.1E — Cantrips

    I have updated thaumaturgy with broader effects I workshopped here.
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    Default Re: D&D 5.1E — Cantrips

    the good stuff or stuff we agree with goes unremarked-upon, precisely because it's good or we agree with it.
    Such an excellent point that I'm going to borrow that line.

    Infestation: Notice the synergy with booming blade + warcaster. Not sure if that's too much, but BB+WC are already popular.

    Sacred flame: This doesn't just let you cast at a target hiding behind a boulder; it lets you cast through walls, floors, and ceilings. With some source of telepathy, your caster can now deliver cantrip damage safe from anything that can't walk through walls. This is too much-- your players *will* exploit it.

    Swordburst, thunderclap: These were already good, but a point of damage isn't going to break anything. The reason they don't get taken is because they're too situational, not because they don't do enough damage. And note that while Con is *usually* a bad save, in the case of creatures that are actually going to swarm you, it's actually a pretty good one.

    Thorn whip: Depending on terrain and character mobility, this has an inobvious +D6 bludgeon damage in the form of falling damage. It doesn't need a boost. It might take players a while to recognize that boost-- I didn't immediately either-- but they'll recognize it eventually.

    Blade ward: Find a paladin (or a bladelock with armor of agathys) and a 5' wide corridor and I think this will get a little OP. Your players will make it happen.

    Friends: Woah! Jedi mind tricks are not cantrips. They are mimicked by the suggestion spell, and by modify memory, spells with significant slot cost. This is too much, and your reading of Friends works *against* diversity: it will be a mainstay of every cha caster, just as every one that can take Guidance has to.

    Mending: I'm not up on artificers, but remember that this has importance for other game effects than just darning your socks. I'd be careful of this one until doing an exhaustive search of those effects.

    Thaumaturgy: I don't think "subtle" is the name of the game with Thaumaturgy. But there's no balance issue, only flavor.

    Note that if you're messing with stuff for flavor, something like Primal Savagery can mimic people's burning desire to play a gish, without requiring hexlock. If you turned primal savagery into "lightsaber cantrip" people would take it.
    Last edited by nathanv; 2021-05-30 at 04:15 PM.

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    Default Re: D&D 5.1E — Cantrips

    Quote Originally Posted by nathanv View Post
    Sacred flame: This doesn't just let you cast at a target hiding behind a boulder; it lets you cast through walls, floors, and ceilings. With some source of telepathy, your caster can now deliver cantrip damage safe from anything that can't walk through walls. This is too much-- your players *will* exploit it.
    I would argue it takes slightly more investment than telepathy. Not much, because all it would really take is a familiar, but not just telepathy. That is beside the point however, because if your cleric is choosing to fight from behind a wall, they effectively can't target any other creatures for the duration of the combat with anything other than sacred flame. Yes, they can buff the party beforehand, but after that they really can't do anything else directly. Good luck using healing word through a wall.
    Quote Originally Posted by nathanv View Post
    Thorn whip: Depending on terrain and character mobility, this has an inobvious +D6 bludgeon damage in the form of falling damage. It doesn't need a boost. It might take players a while to recognize that boost-- I didn't immediately either-- but they'll recognize it eventually.
    And if you're not in a situation to benefit from gravity? It's got lack-luster damage. I acknowledge that the 10 foot pull is a good rider, but not good enough that I think this spell needs reduced damage.
    Quote Originally Posted by nathanv View Post
    Blade ward: Find a paladin (or a bladelock with armor of agathys) and a 5' wide corridor and I think this will get a little OP. Your players will make it happen.
    Sure, it can happen, but really how often is it happening? Even in a dungeon, monsters will usually have some capacity to attack at range, and if everyone is hiding behind the paladin that just means the monsters can take potshots at the paladin until they drop.
    Quote Originally Posted by nathanv View Post
    Friends: Woah! Jedi mind tricks are not cantrips. They are mimicked by the suggestion spell, and by modify memory, spells with significant slot cost. This is too much, and your reading of Friends works *against* diversity: it will be a mainstay of every cha caster, just as every one that can take Guidance has to.
    I'm open to suggestions on how to change my version, but the official friends cantrip is really janky. It's clear that the intention was that beguiler-style characters be able to use cantrips to manipulate NPCs in some way, but the way they chose to limit it was a death sentence. Now the only time people take the friends cantrip is when they want advantage to intimidate and don't care about the drawback, which is clearly an exploit. I mean, it's called the "friends" cantrip...
    Quote Originally Posted by nathanv View Post
    Mending: I'm not up on artificers, but remember that this has importance for other game effects than just darning your socks. I'd be careful of this one until doing an exhaustive search of those effects.
    I haven't done a full write-up of the artificer yet, mostly due to lack of experience, but I think it's really stupid that they can heal their stuff with a cantrip. Suffice to say, that feature would be removed from them.
    Quote Originally Posted by nathanv View Post
    Thaumaturgy: I don't think "subtle" is the name of the game with Thaumaturgy. But there's no balance issue, only flavor.
    That is my entire point. The official version of thaumaturgy is all shock-and-awe. I am intentionally expanding the flavor so that you can represent less bombastic "miracles", like opening a door for someone from across the room.
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