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  1. - Top - End - #61
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    Default Re: How Do Slient Sounds Break Glass?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bartmanhomer View Post
    He's a real scientist, so yes.
    "Real scientist" is difficult to define. He had a bachelor's degree, one commonly assumes a scientist has a PhD. He has a few honorary doctorates, but not a research doctorate. He's also an engineer, which is not generally called a science. And while he's a great science communicator (i.e. guy who talks about science, also an important position), I don't think he actually ever worked in a scientific position, which a quick glance at his biography seems to support.

    So, no, I wouldn't say he's a scientist.
    Last edited by Eldan; 2021-05-27 at 03:21 AM.
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  2. - Top - End - #62
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    Default Re: How Do Slient Sounds Break Glass?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bartmanhomer View Post
    Scientists focus on facts, data, research, and truth based on science.
    As someone whose job title is actually 'scientist'... *collapses into hysterical laughter*

  3. - Top - End - #63
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    Default Re: How Do Slient Sounds Break Glass?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Oni View Post
    As someone whose job title is actually 'scientist'... *collapses into hysterical laughter*
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    http://smbc-comics.com/comic/science-2

    Another SMBC comic that seems approbriate here.
    And as a quasi-scientist, I share Brother Oni's laughter.


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  4. - Top - End - #64
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    Default Re: How Do Slient Sounds Break Glass?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Oni View Post
    As someone whose job title is actually 'scientist'... *collapses into hysterical laughter*
    But, but, but... once I'm done with my PhD, I will actually conduct real, beautiful clean experiments that give perfect and true data!
    "In dark times, should the stars also go out?"

  5. - Top - End - #65
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    Default Re: How Do Slient Sounds Break Glass?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bartmanhomer View Post
    What about Bill Nye The Science Guy? Does he fall under that category?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bartmanhomer View Post
    He's a real scientist, so yes.
    Bill Nye has I believe an engineering degree, and was the host of a science education show. If I had to define him, I would call him and educator.

    As to what about him? I'd say he did exactly what he set out to do, and what his show was advertised as, very well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    "Real scientist" is difficult to define. He had a bachelor's degree, one commonly assumes a scientist has a PhD. He has a few honorary doctorates, but not a research doctorate. He's also an engineer, which is not generally called a science. And while he's a great science communicator (i.e. guy who talks about science, also an important position), I don't think he actually ever worked in a scientific position, which a quick glance at his biography seems to support.

    So, no, I wouldn't say he's a scientist.
    I would say one commonly assumes a scientist is someone employed doing science. Someone with a bachelor's degree (or less) doing benchwork, field work, or (since my focus is healthcare/social science) survey work is definitely a scientist. Someone with a PhD who got the degree and then for some reason went on to become a pianist or painter would be an artist instead (although I guess they would be a scientist as well in a 'once a ____, always a ____' kind of way).
    Last edited by Willie the Duck; 2021-05-27 at 11:54 AM.

  6. - Top - End - #66
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    Default Re: How Do Slient Sounds Break Glass?

    Ah, well. Language differences, I guess. I live in a country where "scientist" is an actually defined job title and usually comes with a PhD. People with a BSc who do bench work are usually called assistants or technicians.
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  7. - Top - End - #67
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    Default Re: How Do Slient Sounds Break Glass?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bartmanhomer View Post
    He's a real scientist, so yes.
    I'm going to go with the others and respond with a firm 'no' as well. He's a great edutainer though (like the mythbusters, were/are as well, in addition to their other qualifications)!

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    Ah, well. Language differences, I guess. I live in a country where "scientist" is an actually defined job title and usually comes with a PhD. People with a BSc who do bench work are usually called assistants or technicians.
    It's not necessarily a language difference, but one where the language is adapting to the times, sort of like 'engineer' 'or architect' titles are not applied to so many different job profiles that does not fit the classic definition of what those jobs roles are. Does it demean or cheapen the additional years of work, study and development that people that have earned academic PhD's who once were the only ones that carried those titles? I think that is a question for another thread ;)
    Last edited by Maelstrom; 2021-05-27 at 09:46 AM.

  8. - Top - End - #68
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    Default Re: How Do Slient Sounds Break Glass?

    I'm now wondering if tvtropes has a No Real Scientist trope. Or do we have to suffer under the tyranny of the No Real Scotsman one?

  9. - Top - End - #69
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    Default Re: How Do Slient Sounds Break Glass?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Oni View Post
    As someone whose job title is actually 'scientist'... *collapses into hysterical laughter*
    Shh... do not spoil our image - it might affect our future funding.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    But, but, but... once I'm done with my PhD, I will actually conduct real, beautiful clean experiments that give perfect and true data!
    Good joke that one.

    Some examples

    Also, if you never watched PhD The Movie, I strongly recommend it.
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  10. - Top - End - #70
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    Default Re: How Do Slient Sounds Break Glass?

    TBH, I've never quite understood the "engineers aren't scientists" train of thought. Or is the idea that only people working solely with theoreticals and never practical applications are scientists?

  11. - Top - End - #71
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    Default Re: How Do Slient Sounds Break Glass?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
    TBH, I've never quite understood the "engineers aren't scientists" train of thought. Or is the idea that only people working solely with theoreticals and never practical applications are scientists?
    More or less. It's usually even wider than that. The Real Scientists (tm) tend to gatekeep a lot of stuff out from their precious Science (tm, r, c).

    It's not entirely without a kernel of truth though. You can be an engineer without ever really coming into contact with science.

  12. - Top - End - #72
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    Default Re: How Do Slient Sounds Break Glass?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
    TBH, I've never quite understood the "engineers aren't scientists" train of thought. Or is the idea that only people working solely with theoreticals and never practical applications are scientists?
    Quote Originally Posted by snowblizz View Post
    More or less. It's usually even wider than that. The Real Scientists (tm) tend to gatekeep a lot of stuff out from their precious Science (tm, r, c).
    It's not entirely without a kernel of truth though. You can be an engineer without ever really coming into contact with science.
    As usual, arbitrary boundaries serve a purpose, but often become the purpose in and of themselves. It has pros and cons and is only sometimes meaningful. I've seen any number of people with terminal degrees that really aren't anything special (I work at the intersection of law, medicine, and computer science. Honestly I see it quite a lot), yet also anyone with any online social media presence has that one relative with no formal background in a thing that thinks they're 'an expert' because they read a lot of articles telling them what they already want to believe.

    Engineer vs. Scientist though is a sub-category of that where theoretical and applied posture for whose work is actually meaningful (and the true answer, as always, is 'both, depending on context').

  13. - Top - End - #73
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    Default Re: How Do Slient Sounds Break Glass?

    Quote Originally Posted by Radar View Post
    Shh... do not spoil our image - it might affect our future funding.
    Don't worry, jokes about funding help cement your image.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
    TBH, I've never quite understood the "engineers aren't scientists" train of thought. Or is the idea that only people working solely with theoreticals and never practical applications are scientists?
    I, for one, take it from STEM; if the the fields are going to separate science and engineering amongst themselves, who am I to argue?
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  14. - Top - End - #74
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    Default Re: How Do Slient Sounds Break Glass?

    I have an engineering degree so Iíll weigh in here.

    The way I see it is science is more about gathering new information whereas engineering is applying it as a means to some end.

    For example, a materials scientist might do experiments to determine the properties of a certain metal (weight, strength, elastic modulus, ect) whereas a civil engineer working on a bridge would use that data to decide what material and how much of it is needed to build a bridge that can needs to support x amount of weight.

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    Default Re: How Do Slient Sounds Break Glass?

    Quote Originally Posted by Beeftank View Post
    I have an engineering degree so Iíll weigh in here.

    The way I see it is science is more about gathering new information whereas engineering is applying it as a means to some end.

    For example, a materials scientist might do experiments to determine the properties of a certain metal (weight, strength, elastic modulus, ect) whereas a civil engineer working on a bridge would use that data to decide what material and how much of it is needed to build a bridge that can needs to support x amount of weight.
    And I mean no disrespect to engineers. There's that old saying, "anyone can build a bridge, but it takes an engineer to build a bridge that barely stands".
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    Quote Originally Posted by pearl jam View Post
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  16. - Top - End - #76
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    Default Re: How Do Slient Sounds Break Glass?

    Quote Originally Posted by Beeftank View Post
    I have an engineering degree so Iíll weigh in here.

    The way I see it is science is more about gathering new information whereas engineering is applying it as a means to some end.

    For example, a materials scientist might do experiments to determine the properties of a certain metal (weight, strength, elastic modulus, ect) whereas a civil engineer working on a bridge would use that data to decide what material and how much of it is needed to build a bridge that can needs to support x amount of weight.
    Funny thing, the way science gathers new information is also generally through applying what's known to some end -- both in preparing for the experiment (e.g. how to isolate a peptide fragment for study) and in carrying it out (e.g. how to determine its properties).

    If science were a game of pool, with the pool balls being scientific principles, it wouldn't be some rarefied observation of how pool balls move in isolation. It would be bumping them against each other at different angles and spin rates to see what happens.
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  17. - Top - End - #77
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    Default Re: How Do Slient Sounds Break Glass?

    Quote Originally Posted by Beeftank View Post
    I have an engineering degree so Iíll weigh in here.

    The way I see it is science is more about gathering new information whereas engineering is applying it as a means to some end.
    What if that end is designing the LHC or the ISS?
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  18. - Top - End - #78
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    Default Re: How Do Slient Sounds Break Glass?

    I would call designing both of those things engineering.

    I feel like itís worth pointing out the fields are all related, and there is definitely some overlap in certain areas. Thereís a reason all the STEM fields were all put together under one umbrella. Hell, math has its own letter in the acronym but math is a type of science.

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    Default Re: How Do Slient Sounds Break Glass?

    Science is knowing that you need a particle accelerator that has X MeV in energy to do the experiment. Engineering is actually building that.
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    Default Re: How Do Slient Sounds Break Glass?

    Science is a method for empirically establishing causality.

    Engineering is applying known principles to make things.

    The two aren't actually innately related to each other. Engineers constantly make due with principles that are retroactively known to be wrong, and may be known to be wrong when they apply them. Science is about 9K years more recent than engineering is, and the synthesis of the two only began in the Nineteenth Century several centuries after science started being used in earnest.

    I would say that Myth Busters is a performance of science rather than an actual application of it, in the same way a play about depression isn't actually psychiatry.
    Last edited by Tvtyrant; 2021-05-30 at 01:24 PM.

  21. - Top - End - #81
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    Default Re: How Do Slient Sounds Break Glass?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    Science is knowing that you need a particle accelerator that has X MeV in energy to do the experiment. Engineering is actually building that.
    In theory there is no difference between practice and theory, in practice there is.
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    Default Re: How Do Slient Sounds Break Glass?

    Quote Originally Posted by halfeye View Post
    In theory there is no difference between practice and theory, in practice there is.
    Sure. In theory, there are a lot more spherical frictionless cows.
    ďEvil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.Ē

  23. - Top - End - #83
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    Default Re: How Do Slient Sounds Break Glass?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    Sure. In theory, there are a lot more spherical frictionless cows.
    It was a quote, I don't remember from whom.

    It is also deeply self referential.
    Last edited by halfeye; 2021-05-31 at 05:11 PM.
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  24. - Top - End - #84
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    Default Re: How Do Slient Sounds Break Glass?

    Quote Originally Posted by halfeye View Post
    It was a quote, I don't remember from whom.

    It is also deeply self referential.
    It is often attributed to Yogi Berra, but apparantly goes back to at least February 1882 (Benjamin Brewster, in The Yale Literary Magazine)
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  25. - Top - End - #85
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    Default Re: How Do Slient Sounds Break Glass?

    Yogi Berra didnít say a lot of the things he said.

  26. - Top - End - #86
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    Default Re: How Do Slient Sounds Break Glass?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bartmanhomer View Post
    I was watching CSI: NY and there was a bank robbery that the robbers who dressed like Holly Golightly look-alikes rob a jewelry store used a device with a silent sound capable of breaking glass. I was so amazed at how did they do that? How did a silent sound be able to break glass?
    In principle a ultrasonic sound or some multiple of the glasses resonance frequency could be used at a high volume. In practice, no.

    If you're doing multiples of the frequency, you need more precision in the frequency you produce and aim for. The typical demonstration of breaking glass with sound involves carefully measuring the glasses resonant frequency before hand. I'd expect any measurement precise enough couldn't be done inconspicuously. The glass is also (presumably) affixed and so it will not tend to vibrate freely.

    You'll also want the various parts of the glass to be equidistant from the sound source (otherwise the crests of the soundwave will hit one part and the throughs another), which means (for a glass object much larger than a wine glass) a speaker, which means a louder speaker.

    That much ultrasound is bound cause other noticeable effects.

    Also, I'd assume any glass in a jewelry store used to secure is bulletproof glass and not the pure crystal used in wineglasses (in fact, even regulars window are usually made of much sturdier stuff now).
    Last edited by Quizatzhaderac; 2021-06-10 at 06:07 PM. Reason: removed response that I decided I was misinterpreting
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  27. - Top - End - #87
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    Default Re: How Do Slient Sounds Break Glass?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bartmanhomer View Post
    robbers who dressed like Holly Golightly look-alikes
    I j just noticed that says "dressed like Holly Golightly look-alikes" and not "dressed like Holly Golightly". Which gives the impression that the robbers hadn't even seen the movie, and just modeled their outfits off a contest or something.
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