A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2
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    Pixie in the Playground
     
    BarbarianGuy

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    Default The Frostbrand 2e. to save or to not save when deliberately engulfing in magic fire.

    From the dmg- Sword +3, Frost Brand, +6 vs. fire-using/dwelling creatures: This sword always provides a +3 bonus. The +6 bonus
    takes effect against creatures that use fire or live in fiery environments. The weapon does not shed any light, except when the air
    temperature is below 0 degrees F. It does give special benefits
    against fire, for its wielder is protected as if he were wearing a ring
    of fire resistance
    The frost brand sword also has a 50% chance of extinguishing
    any fire into which its blade is thrust. This power extends to a 10-foot
    radius—including a wall of fire but excluding a fireball, meteor
    swarm, or flame strike.

    So lets say a player deliberately sticks his frostbrand in a wall of fire...It fails the 50% chance to put out the fire...So now we have a magic weapon in a wall of fire..

    Should we now have an item saving throw? I think it would be a save of metal +6 because it its unique properties....

    Thanks

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    JadedDM's Avatar

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    Default Re: The Frostbrand 2e. to save or to not save when deliberately engulfing in magic fi

    That seems reasonable to me.

    Although if you want to be pedantic about it, the spell description for Wall of Fire specifically says it only deals damage to 'creatures' and one could argue it wouldn't harm an inanimate object at all.

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    Librarian in the Playground Moderator
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    Default Re: The Frostbrand 2e. to save or to not save when deliberately engulfing in magic fi

    I would say yes, it has to deal with an item saving throw, but I would give it the +6, and since it's metal, anyway, it's already pretty good against magical fire.
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    BarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: The Frostbrand 2e. to save or to not save when deliberately engulfing in magic fi

    Wall of Fire does say creatures. Not only creatures but creatures. At least the spell is specific about being magical fire that corresponds to the item saving throw table. The player argument that it’s a frost brand and cannot be harmed by fire does not seem to hold water to me either. I don’t see the magic fire not harming inanimate objects argument holding much water either. Burning bushes notwithstanding. Thanks guys.
    Last edited by Akyron; 2021-05-26 at 10:45 PM.

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    Lord Torath's Avatar

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    Default Re: The Frostbrand 2e. to save or to not save when deliberately engulfing in magic fi

    Also, metal saves vs magical fire on a 6 or higher. With a +6 bonus to the save, Frostbrand saves on a 0+, meaning it is immune to damage from magical fire.

    There's nothing in the PHB or DMG about autopassing on a nat 20 or autofailing on a nat 1, either.
    Warhammer 40,000 Campaign Skirmish Game: Warpstrike
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  6. - Top - End - #6
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    BarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: The Frostbrand 2e. to save or to not save when deliberately engulfing in magic fi

    Saving Throws

    N.B.:A roll of 1 is always failure, regardless of magical protections, spells, or any other reasons which indicate to the contrary.

    Dungeon Masters Guide page 79

    The issue was “Is the Frostbrand immune to magic fire?” At this point, if the fb fails to put out the fire, it is nearly immune. You can still roll a 1 and lose it to the magic fire. It is probably for the best to think twice before sticking your valued items in potentially dangerous places even if they are hardened against damage.

    Thank you

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    Lord Torath's Avatar

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    Default Re: The Frostbrand 2e. to save or to not save when deliberately engulfing in magic fi

    Quote Originally Posted by Akyron View Post
    Saving Throws

    N.B.:A roll of 1 is always failure, regardless of magical protections, spells, or any other reasons which indicate to the contrary.

    Dungeon Masters Guide page 79
    Which version of the 2E DMG are you looking at? In the first printing ('blue' version with Dragon and mage on the cover), p79 is about underwater combat. On the revised printing ('black' version with really ugly adventurers breaking down a door) p79 is about Initiative.
    Last edited by Lord Torath; 2021-05-28 at 07:09 AM.
    Warhammer 40,000 Campaign Skirmish Game: Warpstrike
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    Thri-Kreen Ranger/Psionicist by me, based off of Rich's A Monster for Every Season

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    BarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: The Frostbrand 2e. to save or to not save when deliberately engulfing in magic fi

    AD&D 1979 Gygax version. He tends to ramble but I can appreciate the clarifications.

    You are correct and 2e appears remiss in neglecting that aspect of game balance where there is a chance of success and failure at the extreme ends of the die.

    Thank you

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: The Frostbrand 2e. to save or to not save when deliberately engulfing in magic fi

    Quote Originally Posted by Akyron View Post
    AD&D 1979 Gygax version. He tends to ramble but I can appreciate the clarifications.

    You are correct and 2e appears remiss in neglecting that aspect of game balance where there is a chance of success and failure at the extreme ends of the die.

    Thank you
    FWIW this rule is implemented in Baldurs Gate etc.

    I remember using it when I was playing 2e and I had no contact with rules pre 2e. So I either have taken it from Baldurs Gate or it does appear in my (german) printing of the AD&D 2e rules.

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    BarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: The Frostbrand 2e. to save or to not save when deliberately engulfing in magic fi

    I stand corrected.

    The concept of 20 success and 1 fail is indeed carried over from the 1979 dmg into the 2e players handbook page 121 on the topic of impossible to hit numbers. It is not a giant leap to carry the principle to saves which is where the reference came from previously..

    "No matter what number a character needs to hit, a roll of
    20 is always considered a hit and a roll of 1 is always a miss,
    unless the DM rules otherwise. Under most circumstances, a
    natural 20 hits and a natural 1 misses, regardless of any
    modifiers applied to the die roll."

    I would not be surprised to find more references if I looked a bit longer.


    I guess it might be fun for a few mins if my player characters were gods but in the end, we would all get bored and go do something else with little to no challenge keeping us interested.

    Thank you
    Last edited by Akyron; 2021-05-28 at 03:29 PM.

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