OOTS #1235 - The Discussion Thread

[Fyraltari]

What i don't get is why she needs to hold it like this. She could lay it on her lap, that wouldn't make much difference.

Because if Team Evil come out in close proximity to one another, she'll have to act fast to split them up.

[toodeep]

You seem to be assuming that there would be an "after". I'm sure the Order is assuming that they have one chance - they defeat Xykon, or they lose and all die. And if that's the case, no one else is coming to stop him so eventually Team Evil would figure everything out regardless.

They know there is a chance that they lose. Doing it this way means that if they lose they also hand the secret of the gate location over to Xykon, whereas, if they just hid outside the door waiting for him to come back out they would get almost the same surprise and yet not reveal to traps hiding the gate. Plus, at this level kills are very difficult to accomplish. There is a nonzero chance that either they or Xykon will escape the fight somehow rather than have a final showdown, and giving him the final secret is dangerous if all you do is drive him off.

[Mike Havran]

It must be a real ordeal for those thoughts, to remain trapped inside Elan's brain. Kinda like being engulfed in a void.

[Ruck]

It must be a real ordeal for those thoughts, to remain trapped inside Elan's brain. Kinda like being engulfed in a void.

Elan's mind is the Astral Plane!

[Jay R]

Once again based Belkar is the only one making sense. If they care so much about the goblins' problems, try telling them who's actually responsible so they lash out at the right person, rather than victimize innocent people. Who in their right mind would feel sympathy for them at this point?

The gods are who are responsible. That's exactly who Redcloak already wants to lash out at, and it's exactly who Durkon and Roy want to convince Redcloak to help.

Your suggestion is an excellent way to ensure that Redcloak will not help them seal the Snarl's prison.

---

: How does anyone live like this?"

Elan, we all used to live like that most of the time, before the internet.

---

I wonder what the others would hear if Mr. Scruffy was in the bond?

: "When is Haley going to set that down so I can eat it?"

[WanderingMist]

Eh, probably Elan just did the peeling and Belkar did the cooking.

Elan's mom is a barmaid. Pretty sure he's probably got at least some cooking skill.

I just realized that V implied that all Roy brings to the team is his sword.

The sass this man has to live with, I tell you.

Well, it is a magical sword that's super effective against undead creatures on occasion, and while V may value Roy's advice, V probably still considers V the smartest person in the room.

"What can I do to help? Let me help!"

*sigh* "How about you peel the potatoes? You can use Roy's sword. I'm sure he won't mind."

"... Are you sure about that?"

"Maybe they're Evil potatoes. In which case that green energy stuff will also cook them."

Roy's sword works better on undead, not Evil. It'd be equally effective against an arch-lich as it would against Xykon.

The comic had a massive level jump for Xykon retroactively. Whereas before it was feasible Roy didn't have a magic sword (because they were low level dungeon crawlers), now its more feasible that Xykon has some Superb Shatter epic spell, researched and designed solely to be a git to anyone fighting in melee.

The sword wasn't magical before the starmetal got added.

It occurs to me that the team is making a huge strategic mistake here just to get a tactical advantage.

If they pop out of wherever they are now and attack Zykon as he passes by on his way out, it may give them a tactical advantage in the fight, but it draws attention to the area and how they did that. It may cause team evil to detect the traps that are working on them and keeping the gate safe. It seems careless to endanger the gate when there appears to be a protection that is actually working just for a fleeting tactical advantage.

Who is this Zykon, and does Xykon know of his existence?

It must be a real ordeal for those thoughts, to remain trapped inside Elan's brain. Kinda like being engulfed in a void.

Elan's mind is the Astral Plane!

Can't believe it's been this many pages and no one's made the obvious connection to when Haley was in cryptogram mode.

[KorvinStarmast]

Elan's mind is the Astral Plane!

With Timothy Leary

[Robots]

Roy's sword works better on undead, not Evil. It'd be equally effective against an arch-lich as it would against Xykon.

Well, the potatoes technically aren't "living"...

[bunsen_h]

Elan's mind is the Astral Plane!

"I've got to concentrate concentrate concentrate..." But that's a different plane disaster.

[DavidSh]

Well, the potatoes technically aren't "living"...

The potatoes I get from the store are definitely living. If I handle them wrong they will sprout.

[Robots]

The potatoes I get from the store are definitely living. If I handle them wrong they will sprout.

:P Yeah my joke was a little dumb.

[Rrmcklin]

Once again based Belkar is the only one making sense. If they care so much about the goblins' problems, try telling them who's actually responsible so they lash out at the right person, rather than victimize innocent people. Who in their right mind would feel sympathy for them at this point?

I find it fairly easy to both sympathize with the reasons that bring desperate people to their actions, even while also thinking they must be stopped or corrected. And I'm also capable of separating the acts of individuals from the people suffering at large. None of this strikes me as complicated or illogical.

[nolongeralurker]

Little did Elan know that HE would be the one to experience the light character development!!

[WanderingMist]

The potatoes I get from the store are definitely living. If I handle them wrong they will sprout.

Eh, potatoes will sprout no matter what you do. That's why they're a great food crop. You can just stick one in the ground and voilà, now you're growing potatoes.

[The_Weirdo]

I side with Palin here, this is not an argument.

Yes it is.

[Petrocorus]

Yes it is.

No, it isn't.

[Mastikator]

You say terrifying, but honestly, I'd love to see a Twitter account that's just an unadulterated stream of Elan's thoughts. I think it could be simultaneously hilarious and very intriguing to see how Elan thinks (even if we already get a lot of his throughs narrated to us (by him of course) in the strip.

Kind of like what Girl Genius did with the Othar Tryggvassen Twitter account. No pressure, but if ever anyone needs an OOTS related project to start...

I'm not so worried about Elan posting nonsense on social media, there's tons of that. What there's also a lot of is really mean people getting up in your face. They would eat him alive.

[The_Weirdo]

No, it isn't.

Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position.

Buuuuut I'll stop now lest the next reply is by someone else and in red, rather than in blue.

[Robots]

I'm not so worried about Elan posting nonsense on social media, there's tons of that. What there's also a lot of is really mean people getting up in your face. They would eat him alive.

Man, now I'm imagining Elan getting bullied on social media. I don't know why! I'm making myself upset!

[Teioh]

Dang, major points to Belkar for being exactly right about what Roy and Durkon were thinking.

And right about how lucky Elan and he were

[arimareiji]

If each +1 is "5% increase" then 5 +1s are "25% increase".

Thank you, that's about as authoritative (ha) as one can get. (^_^)b

---

Ah, there's a funny story about that title; the writer of the Artemis Fowl series was apparently not as fluent as Latin. The family motto of the Fowl family is "Aurum Est Potestas", which is grammatically incorrect as you note but is supposed to mean "Gold Is Power".

The title of the fic is an intentional parallel to that; "magic is power". Post-Pacifist Run, Post-The Last Guardian, on a bit of a hiatus but Somnium's got the outline for the next channel finally, probably a bit darker than most post-Pacifist fics.

Apparently it's quite good.

Thank you for indulging my nerditry about a subject almost no one would get. (^_^) But now I'm imagining the Stickverse with its own version of Shinra Power, to run Redcloak's trains... (^_~)

---

You hit things because they are moving and you don't want them to be.

Well-played.

He knew perfectly well that the castle wouldn't blow up until just after everyone got out.

Or if you're unwilling to accept genre savviness as knowledge, there's no reason to expect the self destruct spell to work as if a mechanical clock was triggered. The spell simply waited for everyone who was trying to flee to get out. Then Elan stopped fleeing and the Dungeon immediately exploded.

For a joke, that's an astonishingly-reasonable explanation. Also well-played. (^_^)b

---

Once again based Belkar is the only one making sense. If they care so much about the goblins' problems, try telling them who's actually responsible so they lash out at the right person, rather than victimize innocent people. Who in their right mind would feel sympathy for them at this point?

That's an extremely-unfortunate choice of words, considering how many people have been expressing it.

Also, as wiser people than I have observed: 1) Figuring out who's wrong does nothing to make it right. 2) War doesn't prove who's right, just who's left. 3) "Hate, it has caused a lot of problems in this world, but it has not solved one yet." 4) Evil causes problems for others. Neutral leaves problems for others because they didn't cause them. Good solves problems for others because they're problems, not because they caused them.

---

It must be a real ordeal for those thoughts, to remain trapped inside Elan's brain. Kinda like being engulfed in a void.

Reminds me of an old joke: "How did so-and-so's brain cells die?" ~ "Lonely, for the most part."

---

: How does anyone live like this?"

Elan, we all used to live like that most of the time, before the internet.

This deserves a drum sting. b

---

Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position.

Buuuuut I'll stop now lest the next reply is by someone else and in red, rather than in blue.

I'm afraid to ask... I know blue means sarcasm or at least non-seriousness, what does red mean?

---

Man, now I'm imagining Elan getting bullied on social media. I don't know why! I'm making myself upset!

But that's what social media is best at facilitating! (^_~)

[DavidSh]

I'm afraid to ask... I know blue means sarcasm or at least non-seriousness, what does red mean?

Red text is moderators acting in their official capacity. It's usually better to avoid that.

[Petrocorus]

Good solves problems for others because they're problems, not because they caused them.

No one has disagreed with this point.

I'm afraid to ask... I know blue means sarcasm or at least non-seriousness, what does red mean?

Red is for the moderators.

[Rrmcklin]

No one has disagreed with this point.

I'd say they have, even if not intentionally. A lot of people seem to be taking umbridge with Durkon's and Roy's line of thinking because they're extrapolating that anyone who doesn't agree is supposed to be a "bad" person. I don't think that's the intention, to say the average person is "bad" just that they (Durkon and Roy) strive to be better.

That, in itself, has been a pretty reoccurring theme throughout the story I think, and it's a bit puzzling and/or telling that it's apparently only now causing so much fuss.

[arimareiji]

Red text is moderators acting in their official capacity. It's usually better to avoid that.

Thank you, I don't know how I spaced that.

---

No one has disagreed with this point.

Not per se, but quite a few people have made arguments that the goblins' lot should never improve -- unless the only ones to be so much as inconvenienced in the process are those who can be proven to have committed explicit wrongs against them. Which is kindofa Catch-22, given the inevitable segue to "such as people who are long-dead". And the fact that even those who are living and don't have plausible deniability, are unlikely to have even a tiny fraction of the resources needed.

Red is for the moderators.

Thank you also.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Ha! I think Elan can stand to benefit quite a bit from some quietude, especially considering some of the reflection that was happening earlier. Belkar reacted pretty much as I'd expect him to. I think there should be more discussion about Minrah's great reaction to Elan's fairly invasive questioning.

This strip suddenly gave me a terrifying vision of Elan discovering social media.

Elan would absolutely be one of those Facebook users c. 2010 that posts just about everything that pops into their minds.

[elros]

When the Giant publishes the book about this story arc, I would love a couple of pages showing how Elan handles the alone time. Not only would it be entertaining, but it would probably give me ideas of how I can handle waiting.

[Ruck]

I'd say they have, even if not intentionally. A lot of people seem to be taking umbridge with Durkon's and Roy's line of thinking because they're extrapolating that anyone who doesn't agree is supposed to be a "bad" person. I don't think that's the intention, to say the average person is "bad" just that they (Durkon and Roy) strive to be better.

That, in itself, has been a pretty reoccurring theme throughout the story I think, and it's a bit puzzling and/or telling that it's apparently only now causing so much fuss.

Also telling how many people who complained vociferously about the last two strips haven't posted at all on this one. A more cynical person might think they don't care about the story and just wanted to complain about something they saw as paralleling real-life issues that they don't want to think about.

[Petrocorus]

I'd say they have, even if not intentionally. A lot of people seem to be taking umbridge with Durkon's and Roy's line of thinking because they're extrapolating that anyone who doesn't agree is supposed to be a "bad" person. I don't think that's the intention, to say the average person is "bad" just that they (Durkon and Roy) strive to be better.

That, in itself, has been a pretty reoccurring theme throughout the story I think, and it's a bit puzzling and/or telling that it's apparently only now causing so much fuss.

Not per se, but quite a few people have made arguments that the goblins' lot should never improve -- unless the only ones to be so much as inconvenienced in the process are those who can be proven to have committed explicit wrongs against them. Which is kindofa Catch-22, given the inevitable segue to "such as people who are long-dead". And the fact that even those who are living and don't have plausible deniability, are unlikely to have even a tiny fraction of the resources needed.

Thank you also.

The thing is that many people (me included) didn't read Durkon's and Roy's point as being:
"We must solve this problem for others because they're problems, not because we caused them."
But rather as being:
"We must solve this problem for others because we benefit from it, not because we caused them."
Or being:
"We must solve this problem for others because we don't have it, not because we caused them."
And this is what people have been debating.

I don't want to open this debate again, i'm just pointing out that "We must solve this problem because it needs to be solved." is not what people were debating. No one had an issue with Roy saying "We must stop Xykon because someone has to stop him" in previous strips.

[Spartan360]

Do I count?