How much should I have paid a person to house sit my cats?

[Silverraptor]

Hi all. I don't normally come out of the shadows of this forum, much less interact with so many of you at once, but I have a situation that I would like more perspectives on the issue at hand. Below is the scenario, all the facts, and I would like to ask anyone who has any input to put below how I handled the situation, what I should have done instead, and what should I do now to resolve the situation. Any and all feedback is appreciated. I put the situation in a spoiler box below so you're not confronted by a massive wall of text when you first come into this thread.

Spoiler: The whole situation

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So about a month ago, my dad broke his ankle and became wheelchair bound which was a problem because my mother is also wheelchair bound and now they had a problem where they couldn't take care of themselves completely at the time. After a bit of mass calling among family members, it was deemed that I was the one in the best situation to go up and take care of them, due to self isolation and being able to telecommute to work, regardless of location so I drove up. I traveled there under the assumption I would be gone a week and so I prepped my cats by filling up their food tower, their water tower, and putting fresh litter in their boxes (No, I couldn't have taken them with me). My grandmother, who also lives in the area, was coming over near daily to check on them and to make sure they don't feel too lonely. Long story short, my expected week long visit ended up being extended to a month due to different medical appointments being set up for my father's ankle and other things that I needed to get setup so that they could manage to live on their own without me. However, this proved a problem because while my grandmother was visiting, she wasn't able to handle the physical tasks necessary to easily fill up the food and water tower for the cats nor bend over the empty their cat box. So in desperation, we looked around the complex I live at to other tenants who would be willing to check on them daily as well and make sure the necessities of the cats were being met.

We ended up finding a college student going to a college nearby living with his dad in the complex. He agreed to come by and make sure to feed, water, and check on my cats. He was also unemployed and had no other obligations in his life other than school. I also gave him the location of the variety of cat toys should he want to play and interact with the cats (I let him use his own prerogative on if he wanted to do that) and if he wanted to watch TV or anything there. He began doing that near daily and occasionally met with my grandmother from time to time and II received the report he was doing a great job. I then heard some rumors from my grandmother that he was hoping to be paid $15 an hour for his work, but given that my grandmother's track record for actual facts to be unreliable, I had to completely disregard these rumors as hearsay. I have not, during my entire time away, received a direct message from this college student, in terms of pay. Anyways, with the time of me returning always being moved back, and back, I finally am able to make the trip back home and my kitties were happy to see me. They were indeed doing well and he did seem to have done a good job.

So it came to payment. We made an agreement that he was to come over at a certain time. When that time came, we met, made pleasant small talk, I thanked him for checking on them, then asked him all the time he spent checking in on them. He told me that it took about a half-hour to do the food, water, and cat boxes followed by an additional 30 minutes of play time whenever he came over, so about an hour of work each time. He did this except for the couple days of the week he had school, and with the start and end date provided we came to the conclusion that he put in roughly 15 hours of work towards my cats. Once we hammered out all the details, I asked him how much he thought would be fair payment for his services. After thinking about it for a bit, he stated his fair price would be $150. I decided to give him $180, essentially a 20% tip for the good work he did and for the fact my cats seemed to like him (They usually hide from all strangers). He seemed appreciative, we said our goodbyes and I thought that was that.

Yesterday I received a scathing message from his father denouncing me for the amount of pay I gave his son. Here is a redacted version of his message to me:

Spoiler: Angry Message

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Mr. [Silverraptor]. I was shocked to learn of the poultry compensation that you gave my son for the 21 days for the care of your 3 cats and cleaning/maintenance of the 4 litter boxes. You were in a bind for what was originally supposed to be a 1 week commitment which turned into 3 weeks and you compensated him at nearly half of minimum wage. Had you to board your 3 cats, it would have been $30 a day for each. He stepped up for you and in your predicament and you took advantage with what you paid him. Shame on you.

I don't quite know what to make of this message. Am I in the wrong or is this guy behaving as entitled as I believe him to be? He said 21 days, but I was informed that 2 days out of the week he couldn't check because of school. He made the cat boxes sound like there was so much with 4 cat boxes, but having had cats before, I know that having boxes equal to the number of cats you have plus 1 is the optimal amount to keep up with them without the boxes getting used up too much. He mentions a price as if I were to have to board them, which when I did the math for the 15 days (I'm ignoring the 21 day figure since that was already admitted to not be the case) is a total of $1350. He didn't list a price, so was he expecting me to pay this amount towards his son? Also, why is the father getting involved in a social contract between his adult son and myself when he himself was not involved with the ordeal? These are all my thoughts on this and I just wanted other point of views and opinions on whether I did take advantage of the situation, when I thought the amount I gave him to be perfectly fair.

So yeah, that's the situation. Any and all thoughts and opinions on the matter would be appreciated and any advice on what I should do next regarding this. I left a message with the son asking if he wanted to re-discuss the amount of pay I gave to him and I have yet to hear back from him. Although I am still unsure about what I really should do.

Thanks!


Edit: Also, obligatory pictures of my 3 cats he was taking care of:

Spoiler: My 3 Cats

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[Rynjin]

What matters, in the end, for any monetary transaction is whether both people were happy with what they got. You were satisfied with the service, and the student was satisfied with the pay; they named their own price, after all.

The guy's father doesn't factor into things at all. He can yell and cry all he wants; he wasn't part of the deal.

If I was hammering things out beforehand, I probably would have ended up paying the guy a bit more (maybe $200; nice round number), but $180 sounds plenty fair for a half hour job a few days a week.

[Gallowglass]

So I will tell you from my experience with two dogs and a cat. The professional dog sitter we had would come over three times a day, twice to feed the dogs and once more for an additional outside potty break. She charged us 20$ a visit, 60$ a day. that was for all three of them. So 15 days would've been 900$.

but that's Dogs. The Dogs need someone three times a day so they can go to the bathroom outside. The Cat, by herself, needs someone at minimum once a week to put out fresh water, fill up the food bowl, clean out her litter box and to yell at for our sins against her. Without the dogs, I would still want someone to come in once a day, at least once every other day. So I'd probably pay 20$ a day with a visit for her. If they come by 15 days, that would be 300$.

right now we have a non-professional dog sitter who comes over three times a day for 20$ a day total. So that's much more affordable.

All that being said, you are dealing with a college student with no employment who lives in the same complex as you, so all he has to do is pop down once or twice a day for a few minutes. So I would think 20$ a day would be sufficient and it's what I would've offered.

So if you want to give him another 120$ go for it. But it won't make the ******* father any happier.

I think, If I was you, i'd send an email like this:

Dear Mr. So and So,

No Sir. Shame on you. I did not take advantage of your son. I talked to him, asked him what he felt was a fair price for the service he provided and paid him more than he asked for. If he had a problem with it, he did not bring it up and he seemed quite happy when we last saw each other. If he felt cheated, I would've welcomed him to come back and explain why he felt that way and would've happily addressed it with him directly.

My suspicion is that he -is- perfectly happy with our agreement and its you and only you who seem to have a problem with it.

Your son is a grown man. Shame on you for this disgusting coddling behavior. Is this what you want to teach your son? If so, I can't imagine how we came out to be the model of a upstanding young man he turned out to be. Certainly not from your example or your parenting. You disgust me. Your son should be ashamed of you and I suspect that he is or would be if he knew about this email.

If your son wants to come and talk to me about renegotiating our arrangement, I'm happy to talk to him. However, based on this email and this email alone, I can say that I'm not particularly inclined to be persuaded.

In short, sir, keep your nose out of other people's affairs, stop coddling your grown son, and learn a lesson in tact and being a neighbor. I will be adding your email address to my do-not-read list as soon as I send this, so don't bother replying, you won't be getting any more of my attention.

Yours,

Mr Silverraptor

[JNAProductions]

First off, d’aw, kitties!

Second off, the student asked for $150. You gave him 20% more than that. If the father has anyone to be mad at, it’d be his son for not asking for a higher price. But with all due respect, he sounds like a massive tool. I’d just ignore the email.

[InvisibleBison]

It sounds to me like the dad either overestimated the amount of work his son did or is trying to pry more money out of you. In other words, he's either ignorant or a swindler. In neither case should you pay any additional money.

I do think you should have worked out compensation with your petsitter (not his dad) before the work was done, but things seem to have been amicable and you did pay more than he asked for, so I don't think you did anything wrong.

[Peelee]

I think, If I was you, i'd send an email like this:

Dear Mr. So and So,

No Sir. Shame on you. I did not take advantage of your son. I talked to him, asked him what he felt was a fair price for the service he provided and paid him more than he asked for. If he had a problem with it, he did not bring it up and he seemed quite happy when we last saw each other. If he felt cheated, I would've welcomed him to come back and explain why he felt that way and would've happily addressed it with him directly.

My suspicion is that he -is- perfectly happy with our agreement and its you and only you who seem to have a problem with it.

Your son is a grown man. Shame on you for this disgusting coddling behavior. Is this what you want to teach your son? If so, I can't imagine how we came out to be the model of a upstanding young man he turned out to be. Certainly not from your example or your parenting. You disgust me. Your son should be ashamed of you and I suspect that he is or would be if he knew about this email.

If your son wants to come and talk to me about renegotiating our arrangement, I'm happy to talk to him. However, based on this email and this email alone, I can say that I'm not particularly inclined to be persuaded.

In short, sir, keep your nose out of other people's affairs, stop coddling your grown son, and learn a lesson in tact and being a neighbor. I will be adding your email address to my do-not-read list as soon as I send this, so don't bother replying, you won't be getting any more of my attention.

Yours,

Mr Silverraptor

I would recommend a different email message.

Spoiler

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For reals, this guy isn't looking for a discussion. He's looking for "give more money", end of discussion. Any reply other than "I have sent him more money" is a waste of time.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Silverraptor
After thinking about it for a bit, he stated his fair price would be $150. I decided to give him $180…. He seemed appreciative, we said our goodbyes and I thought that was that.

First off, I can understand how awkward this sort of informal arrangement can be, especially when it comes to tackling the question of payment. Of course it would have been better to work out the terms up front, and the next time you need this type of service, securing an agreement ahead of the work should be a priority.

That said, you’ve done absolutely nothing wrong here. It sounds like you and the college student came to a price you both agreed to, he accepted the money, and that was the end of it. As others have said, you paid him a fair price for the work he did.

At this point you don’t owe him anything more, and you don’t owe his father the time of day on Pluto. I wouldn’t waste any time or energy answering the father’s message; all that will do is prove that you can be baited, and it may spiral further out of control.

Best thing at this point is to let the situation stand. Service provided, fair price paid, the two parties to the transaction were satisfied. No need for anything more.

[snowblizz]

Mr. [Silverraptor]. I was shocked to learn of the poultry compensation that you gave

Obviously the reply to this idiot should be:

Dear Sir or Madam,

I can attest to the fact that your son did not receive any chickens as compensation, there was no fowl play at all.

We agreed a price your son suggested. He didn't want any turkeys either. Probably because he has one for a father.

And this is why you always have to agree on a price beforehand.

[Trafalgar]

One thing I suggest to everyone is putting any agreements about money into writing. For example, in this situation I would have sent an email to the son outlining the agreement and payment amount and asking for a reply with any feedback or his consent. It's not a binding contract but something you can show to an angry father.

What is minimum wage where you are at? Is it really $20?

[Peelee]

One thing I suggest to everyone is putting any agreements about money into writing. For example, in this situation I would have sent an email to the son outlining the agreement and payment amount and asking for a reply with any feedback or his consent. It's not a binding contract but something you can show to an angry father.

What is minimum wage where you are at? Is it really $20?

While I agree about getting things in writing, I doubt it would ameliorate the father any. He'd more likely go into "now there's tangible evidence you took advantage of him!" mode.

Also, it likely would be a binding contract.

[Palanan]

At this point, engaging with the father in any way will only make things worse.

{Scrubbed} Best option for the OP is not to have anything to do with either of these people, since trying to work with the college student will just spur the father to invite himself into the mix again.

It's worth emphasizing that the OP has done nothing wrong and owes nothing more to either of these people.

[dancrilis]

I would ignore the father but might get back in touch with the student depending on a) your own financial situation, b) if you think you might need a cat sitter again and c) how annoyed you are at the father.

If he was a good cat-sitter you might need his services again and he might have felt put on the spot by being asked a number and potentially hard done by after he factored in travel time etc
This might be a case of a young person who didn't factor in things they should have when thinking about a price and who might also have not wanted a potential confronatation so choose a low number - it might also be worth considering if your grandmother might have been saying things like 'oh yes 15 sounds very reasonable I am sure Silverraptor will do that at least'.

Effectively if he was good at the job and you might need him again it might not hurt to make sure that he was happy with the arrangement after consideration.

On the otherhand now that the father has annoyed you then it might be better to have nothing to do with the family at all and if your own finances are tight you can't do anything even if the student does feel hard done by - then you might be better to just ignore the whole thing.

[Mastikator]

$30 per day is outrageous, not for 30 minutes of work.

However doing 30 minutes of work and counting it as 30 minutes is also outrageous. Commuting takes time and costs money, scheduling around doing 30 minutes of cat stuff is inconvenient. If we round it up to 1 hour as a minimum then you paid him $6, which I believe is below minimum wage in the US.

How much would be reasonable IMO? Round up those 30 minutes shifts to 1 hour, then pay minimum wage plus travel expenses. I doubt it's more than $30 a day, but it's more than $180.

[Eldan]

He's not commuting though. Says so right in the first post.

[Peelee]

However doing 30 minutes of work and counting it as 30 minutes is also outrageous.

That doesn't sound outrageous. That sounds accurate.

Commuting takes time and costs money

No it doesn't. The student lives in the complex.

scheduling around doing 30 minutes of cat stuff is inconvenient.

No it's not. The student only had school, and was not required to come in at specific times that needed to be scheduled around.

If we round it up to 1 hour as a minimum

Why would we round it?

How much would be reasonable IMO? Round up those 30 minutes shifts to 1 hour, then pay minimum wage plus travel expenses.

OP is not a business and is not bound by minimum wage requirements. As long as the recipient is happy with the amount, it's fine, since it's a small scale private transaction. And the recipient is the one who suggested the amount, which OP then raised, so we can assume the recipient was indeed happy with it.

Frankly, doubling the amount of time worked and adding in travel expenses to estimate a reasonable amount is what is outrageous.

[Mastikator]

That doesn't sound outrageous. That sounds accurate.

No it doesn't. The student lives in the complex.
So no commuting cost.

No it's not. The student only had school, and was not required to come in at specific times that needed to be scheduled around.
This work would affect how he scheduled his free time.

Why would we round it?
Because scheduling your free time over 30 minutes of work is ridiculous and demeaning. Some would round it up to more.

OP is not a business and is not bound by minimum wage requirements. As long as the recipient is happy with the amount, it's fine, since it's a small scale private transaction. And the recipient is the one who suggested the amount, which OP then raised, so we can assume the recipient was indeed happy with it.
Lots of suckers get screwed every day and are happy about it. That is not an excuse for exploiting this young man's ignorance of his worth. Many underpaid people don't know they're underpaid and are happy. Using his lack of experience for your own benefit is pretty crappy if you ask me.

Frankly, doubling the amount of time worked and adding in travel expenses to estimate a reasonable amount is what is outrageous.
30h * 7.25dollars/hour = $217.5
Not exactly double $180, but more

I bolded some answers. Too lazy to split up your quote into microquotes

[farothel]

I did some cat sitting back in the day when I was a student at university (now almost 20 years ago). I went to my holiday job during the day, but I stayed at the people's house (friends of my father) in the evening (I ate at my parent's place though). I'm not sure what I was paid (it was 2 weeks in total), but adjusted for inflation it was around that ballpark I think. The only extra thing I had was that I slept at their place, I could use their broadband internet during the evening (in those days that was something a bit more special than it is now) and they asked me to buy something special to eat for the cat like once a week (as I worked at a supermarket, again not really a big deal). And I was asked to cut the lawn in the middle of their holiday, but that was no problem because if I didn't do it there, I would have had to do it at my parent's place.

So all in all I don't think you underpaid all that much, especially since there was no commute and he could come around whenever it suited him the best.

[Peelee]

How one schedules free time is not a cost put upon an employer (this is another example of something that is actually outrageous). Further, if scheduling 30 minutes is demeaning then one is perfectly free to not do it. The student disagrees with you and clearly does not see it as demeaning (nor do I, and I believe I have a fairly worker-friendly attitude towards what counts as demeaning). Further, minimum wage is also subject to income taxes, social security, etc., and yet I do not see you pushing for those deductions. Nor do i see you pushing to file out the 1099 paperwork for a contractor. Based on this, I think I can safely assume that you recognize this is an informal agreement. There's no requirement legally to pay the minimum wage, there is significant debate which we should not go into here on whether the minimum wage is even ethically acceptable, and again, the recipient named his own price, got more than that, and was satisfied. It doesn't matter if you think the student shouldn't be happy or is a sucker. They are clearly happy for receiving more than their asking price for remarkably simple and easy work. I'm not saying that OP should absolutely not pay more, but I do believe they are not obligated to pay more.

[asda fasda]

I bolded some answers. Too lazy to split up your quote into microquotes

Hmm I think you are mistaken, the total time spent on cat-care was 15h - 1h a day (0,5 feeding and 0,5 playtime each day), so the wage was finally 12$/hour so it seems it's above minimum wage and seems decent (it's hard to me to asses as I live outside of US and 12$/hour would be in a fact a dream salary for many : ).
Of course it's always better to agree wage beforehand, discussion on price after the service was rendered are always problematic and stressful for both sides, and I would agree with Mastikator that just because other side agrees for something doesn't mean it's fair transaction, and especially that we all agree that in this scenario kid is in more vulnerable position. But even if the kid feels slightly cheated because of this misunderstatement, for sure in the future he will remember to agree price beforehand and that may be quite valuable lesson, as there will be people who will actually try to cheat him : )

This said the father of the kid is a jerk.

They are clearly happy for receiving more than their asking price for remarkably simple and easy work. I'm not saying that OP should absolutely not pay more, but I do believe they are not obligated to pay more.

I would disagree, just because someone agrees for something doesn't mean he is happy about this, as said above, the kid was put in quite stressful situation and might just tried to avoid conflict.

[Peelee]

I would disagree, just because someone agrees for something doesn't mean he is happy about this, as said above, the kid was put in quite stressful situation and might just tried to avoid conflict.

The student thought about how much to ask for a bit, and then seemed appreciative. I'd say that, from the information we are given, he seems to be happy with it.

[asda fasda]

I understand but what i ment was that when someone doesn't know what to expect and is under pressure may seam happy but after he was able to think this through noticed that this wasnt what he wanted, I know i was in that situation few timese

[JNAProductions]

I understand but what i ment was that when someone doesn't know what to expect and is under pressure may seam happy but after he was able to think this through noticed that this wasnt what he wanted, I know i was in that situation few timese

So talk to the student-NOT the father. The student seems a reasonable lad, the father... Not so much.

[Peelee]

I understand but what i ment was that when someone doesn't know what to expect and is under pressure may seam happy but after he was able to think this through noticed that this wat he wanted, I know i was in that situation few timese

I get that and have been in that situation myself, but this seems like a very light version of that, if at all. And I'm trying to work off making as few assumptions as possible.

[Fyraltari]

{Scrub the post, scrub the quote}

If you think a post violates the forum rules you can click on the little triangle beneath it to report it. The mods don't have super-powers, it can take a while for a post to be redtexted.

And if you think you've been treated unfairly you can PM Roldand St Jude as per the Forum Rules.

[Taffimai]

First of all, I want to say that I admire you for being so well organised that you had a month's worth of cat litter available without the expectation that it would be needed.

I agree with the other posters that you shouldn't engage with the father, he's being unreasonable, rude, and probably a cheapskate who wants to pull the "I don't need to pay your X because you've just gotten paid for that cat-sitting job" on his poor son. Just like you, I would have checked in with the son, though probably more from the angle of "what's this I hear about you not being happy with what I paid you and why didn't you say something at the time".

If there's a lesson to be learned here, it's that payment should be discussed up front to avoid this kind of unpleasantness, but all in all you did the right thing imo. I'm purposely not commenting on the amount you paid, because what is or isn't appropriate depends very much on where you live (which country/state, rural or urban,...) so I don't think the input from someone in rural Ireland is of much use to you.

[Silverraptor]

I made a decision on what to do based on the different comments that were given so far. I decided to send a text message to the son politely asking if he was unhappy with the amount I gave him and for him to contact me at his convenience to discuss it. I've also decided to not engage with the father at all, as I was glad to see that based on the other comments he was being overtly aggressive and was not involved with the deal at all. The main reason I created to this thread for advice is this is the first time where I have been on the paying end of an informal transaction for quick services rendered. I have done odd jobs here and there and thought that $180 would have been a fair amount if I would have collected, given the ease of the work. I would have thought of it as being paid for easy babysitting where I could set my own hours and come and go whenever I saw fit. So I used my past experience of how much I would usually get paid for these informal jobs and thought I would have been more than happy with that amount. But I wanted to make sure that just because I thought an amount would have been fair if I was on the receiving end didn't mean I was unintentionally short changing the college student. I wanted to see if anyone else had any additional insight to this and had a better idea on what would be a more balanced amount. The general consensus seems to be that I should have paid a little more, which is fine. I had no intention of cheating anyone and if he wanted the minimum wage amount of $15, I would have paid him the $300. I know I should have asked him for payment at the start, but I had a lot on my mind, like resettling to take care of 2 parents, plus setting up my work computer and traveling under pandemic restrictions and operating for a time that had to be extended due to medical appointments and scheduling popping up here and there.

So yeah, I sent a message to the College student and I'm awaiting his response back. Not going to deal with the father at all, could to make sure everything is good with the one I made the deal with, and then go about my life.

[JNAProductions]

I made a decision on what to do based on the different comments that were given so far. I decided to send a text message to the son politely asking if he was unhappy with the amount I gave him and for him to contact me at his convenience to discuss it. I've also decided to not engage with the father at all, as I was glad to see that based on the other comments he was being overtly aggressive and was not involved with the deal at all. The main reason I came to this thread for advice is this is the first time where I have been on the paying end of an informal transaction for quick services rendered. I have do odd jobs here and there and thought that $180 would have been a fair amount I would have collected, given the ease of the work. I would have thought of it as being paid for easy babysitting where I could set my own hours and come and go whenever I saw fit. So I used my past experience of how much I would usually get paid for these informal jobs and thought I would have been more than happy with that amount. But I wanted to make sure that just because I thought an amount would have been fair if I was on the receiving end didn't mean I was unintentionally short changing the college student. I wanted to see if anyone else had any additional insight to this and had a better idea on what would be a more balanced amount. The general consensus seems to be that I should have paid a little more, which is fine. I had no intention of cheating anyone and if he wanted the minimum wage amount of $15, I would have paid him the $300. I know I should have asked him for payment at the start, but I had a lot on my mind, like resettling to take care of 2 parents, plus setting up my work computer and traveling under pandemic restrictions and operating under pandemic conditions for a time that had to be extended due to medical appointments and scheduling popping up here and there.

So yeah, I sent a message to the College student and I'm awaiting his response back. Not going to deal with the father at all, could to make sure everything is good with the one I made the deal with, and then go about my life.

Good luck, and keep us updated!

I think you made a good decision on what to do. :)

[Peelee]

Good luck, and keep us updated!

I think you made a good decision on what to do. :)

Seconded. You seem like a good ma-er, a good silver raptor.

[tomandtish]

However doing 30 minutes of work and counting it as 30 minutes is also outrageous. Commuting takes time and costs money, scheduling around doing 30 minutes of cat stuff is inconvenient. If we round it up to 1 hour as a minimum then you paid him $6, which I believe is below minimum wage in the US.

That doesn't sound outrageous. That sounds accurate.

No it doesn't. The student lives in the complex.

No it's not. The student only had school, and was not required to come in at specific times that needed to be scheduled around.

Why would we round it?

OP is not a business and is not bound by minimum wage requirements. As long as the recipient is happy with the amount, it's fine, since it's a small scale private transaction. And the recipient is the one who suggested the amount, which OP then raised, so we can assume the recipient was indeed happy with it.

Frankly, doubling the amount of time worked and adding in travel expenses to estimate a reasonable amount is what is outrageous.

More importantly, unless travel is part of the job very few jobs pay you for your commute to and from work. Minimum wage is based strictly on the hours worked, not travel time (and officially not lunch time either unless you have a generous employer).

As others have said, if you negotiated an amount that you were both happy with then there's no NEED to do anything else. Having said that, if you were planning to use him again in the future you might want to reach out and see if he was OK with it.

I'd also note that unless your cat is high-maintenance (medical needs, etc.) every other day is almost certainly fine. My parents live about 45 miles away, and when I checked on their cat I would go twice a week. MOST cats tend to be good about not gorging all their food at once.

(If we left our dogs alone for 48 hours the food would be gone hour one and I suspect two dogs would have become kibble....).

[Roland St. Jude]

Sheriff: Thread closed for review.