I Can't Believe It's Not An Index CCXXXIII - Jasdoif's Random Banter #233

[Form]

These naming systems offend my sense of order, at least the ones that appear to misuse number designations. I can get behind names like Yu-Gi-Oh ZEXAL and Yu-Gi-Oh! VRAINS or Mobile Suit Gundam and Gundam Wing because these are named instead of numbered and (I think?) are more like variations of the same basic concept (magical card game, specific type of war mech) than sequals. But for sequals or improvements of the same system... either go with names all the way or use the right numbers for consistency.

Naming all of your children "Herbert" when you have seven children

Eh, just slap an extra number on it and call it a day. Herbert I, Herbert II....

Not that it matters to me, as my brother's donating his gaming PC in a couple of months and my girlfriend's going to help me if I need to customise it.

Nice. Specs of the gaming PC?

[factotum]

Eh, just slap an extra number on it and call it a day. Herbert I, Herbert II....

Do what the father of the princes in "Stardust" did and cut out the middleman, just name them after numbers: Primus, Secundus, Tertius etc.

[LaZodiac]

Silly NAming conventions:

Almost every character in Dragonball's name is either a pun or just the word.

In order of introduction, skipping Goku whose name is not a pun, our heroes characters are bloomers, a kind of tea, the act of drinking tea, a different kind of tea, chestnut monk, lunch, Chinese-style crabmeat Omelet over rice, Chinese dumplings, balancing toy, a woodwind instrument, rice/a different word for lunch, vegetable, trunks(the underwear), literally just the number 18, Awakening to Heaven(which is actually a pretty cool name... wasted on kind of a nothing character) and the mother of all puns, Bread/Chimp/Other Woodwind Instrument/Demonized Greek Deity/Literally everything, followed by Gear, and then in a different continuity, we have Beer.

The difference here is that all of these names are obfuscated enough that until I told them, literally none of my friends noticed that every Saiyan is named after a vegetable.

[Fyraltari]

Do what the father of the princes in "Stardust" did and cut out the middleman, just name them after numbers: Primus, Secundus, Tertius etc.

What are you, Roman? Or do that but intentionally mess the order up. Just to mess up with people.

Edit: about Son Goku, is name isn't a pun it's a literary reference, and "Monkey King" isn't a bad description of the character if what I was told is accurate.

[Anonymouswizard]

Nice. Specs of the gaming PC?

Not certain, I'll get actual specs of the reason he's donating it doesn't fall through (it's almost certain at this point though). But it should run anything compatible to its graphics card at over 30FPS and was last upgraded a year or two ago.

So yes, it should run DOOM. Also Doom and Doom Eternal.

It'll be nice to have something that can run games properly. Until then I'll just try to play Alien: Isolation on the Xbox Full Circle (I tried Halo reach, and remember how much I suck at shooters).

[Peelee]

Do what the father of the princes in "Stardust" did and cut out the middleman, just name them after numbers: Primus, Secundus, Tertius etc.

A.) Stardust is amazing and everyone who hasn't seen it should.
2.) That was pretty standard Roman naming convention. And you skipped over the daughter, Una.

What are you, Roman? Or do that but intentionally mess the order up. Just to mess up with people.

Edit: about Son Goku, is name isn't a pun it's a literary reference, and "Monkey King" isn't a bad description of the character if what I was told is accurate.

Aye. Also, in DBZ he was soft of re-introduced as Kakarot, which goes straight back to the puns.

[LaZodiac]

What are you, Roman? Or do that but intentionally mess the order up. Just to mess up with people.

Edit: about Son Goku, is name isn't a pun it's a literary reference, and "Monkey King" isn't a bad description of the character if what I was told is accurate.

Yeah the entire initial set up of Dragonball is "parody of Journey to the West" that very quickly becomes its own thing once it introduces all the principle character who represent Journey characters.

EDIT: Pelee he was not "soft introduced" as Kakarot. That's what Raditz and Vegeta call him because it's what his original name was as a baby when they knew him, but he's Son Goku now, and always goes by that to everyone but Vegeta, who very clearly would not respect someone's pronouns which is like, the nastiest thing about him.

[Keltest]

Yeah the entire initial set up of Dragonball is "parody of Journey to the West" that very quickly becomes its own thing once it introduces all the principle character who represent Journey characters.

EDIT: Pelee he was not "soft introduced" as Kakarot. That's what Raditz and Vegeta call him because it's what his original name was as a baby when they knew him, but he's Son Goku now, and always goes by that to everyone but Vegeta, who very clearly would not respect someone's pronouns which is like, the nastiest thing about him.

Not having watched much Dragonball, does Goku ever actually, you know, ask Vegeta to not call him that? Or care at all?

[Peelee]

Pelee he was not "soft introduced" as Kakarot. That's what Raditz and Vegeta call him because it's what his original name was as a baby when they knew him, but he's Son Goku now, and always goes by that to everyone but Vegeta, who very clearly would not respect someone's pronouns which is like, the nastiest thing about him.

He was, though. Along with being re-introduced as a member of an alien race . He has two names, he answers to two names, he doesn't see this as the problem you do.

Not having watched much Dragonball, does Goku ever actually, you know, ask Vegeta to not call him that? Or care at all?

No, and no.

ETA: Well, he initially rejected the Kakarot name at the same time as rejecting that he was a Saiyan, but that was more about denial regarding his past and how he was supposed to subjugate or destroy the world. He doesn't object to Vegeta calling him that once they ally. Nor does anyone else, and everyone responds to it the same as they respond to Goku. Same for Broly calling him Kakarot.

[LaZodiac]

Not having watched much Dragonball, does Goku ever actually, you know, ask Vegeta to not call him that? Or care at all?

He was, though. Along with being re-introduced as a member of an alien race . He has two names, he answers to two names, he doesn't see this as the problem you do.

No, and no.

ETA: Well, he initially rejected the Kakarot name at the same time as rejecting that he was a Saiyan, but that was more about denial regarding his past and how he was supposed to subjugate or destroy the world. He doesn't object to Vegeta calling him that once they ally. Nor does anyone else, and everyone responds to it the same as they respond to Goku. Same for Broly calling him Kakarot.

I wouldn't say that's being re-introduced. He's being "revealed to be" an alien. Re-introduction would be if he showed up and said "I'm Kakarot now, and I'm an alien". I'm basically just nitpicking, sorry XP

To be fair this is because Goku is just a very nice boy. If it bothers him at all he just doesn't bring it up because eh, it makes his friend comfortable. Vegeta's a mess of emotions and trauma, there are four pure-blood saiyens left and he still insists he's the Prince.

[Peelee]

I wouldn't say that's being re-introduced. He's being "revealed to be" an alien. Re-introduction would be if he showed up and said "I'm Kakarot now, and I'm an alien". I'm basically just nitpicking, sorry XP

To be fair this is because Goku is just a very nice boy. If it bothers him at all he just doesn't bring it up because eh, it makes his friend comfortable. Vegeta's a mess of emotions and trauma, there are four pure-blood saiyens left and he still insists he's the Prince.

Both fair points.

[Anonymouswizard]

A.) Stardust is amazing and everyone who hasn't seenread it should.

Fixed it for you.

It's one of the most beautiful endings ever, and the film not including it is a crime.

[enderlord99]

there are four pure-blood saiyens left

I counted five (if you include the movies) or two (if you don't)

[LaZodiac]

I counted five (if you include the movies) or two (if you don't)

Dragon Ball Super canonized Broly and he's still around. Pure bloods include; Goku, Vegeta, Tarble, Broly, and... that's it for canon Saiyens unless I'm missing someone.

[Fyraltari]

Vegeta, who very clearly would not respect someone's pronouns which is like, the nastiest thing about him.

Isn't he a murderer?

[LaZodiac]

Isn't he a murderer?

He was raised in a culture that got taken over and turned into a warrior slave race. I'm conflicted on whether or not I can fully blame Vegeta for all of his actions. The "I choose to join Majin Buu to test my limits" moment is probably his most actually evil moment, but everything else... Saiyen's are Klingons who had their entire race conscripted into Frieza's real estate empire, so it's no wonder most of them are crazy murderers.

Also I was exaggerating for comedic effect

[Fyraltari]

The "I choose to join Majin Buu to test my limits" moment is probably his most actually evil moment

Keeping in mind that all my knowledge of the Dragon Ball universe comes from the abridged serie and one enthusiastic friend, why did he kill Nappa again?

Also I was exaggerating for comedic effect

Fair.

[enderlord99]

Dragon Ball Super canonized Broly and he's still around. Pure bloods include; Goku, Vegeta, Tarble, Broly, and... that's it for canon Saiyens unless I'm missing someone.

I didn't know Tarble was canon, but the fifth one I was referring to (from the movies) was Turles.

...

Wait... was he taken down lethally or non-lethally at the end oif Tree of Might? I haven't actually seen it, so I'm not sure.

[LaZodiac]

Keeping in mind that all my knowledge of the Dragon Ball universe comes from the abridged serie and one enthusiastic friend, why did he kill Nappa again?

Fair.

Because he "failed" and "showed weakness", which they were told to snuff out at any chance (also because he personally disliked the guy).

I didn't know Tarble was canon, but the fifth one I was referring to (from the movies) was Turles.

...

Wait... was he taken down lethally or non-lethally at the end oif Tree of Might? I haven't actually seen it, so I'm not sure.

He extremely dies. Also right they do canonize Turles as well in Super adjacent stuff if I recall... huh.

[Tvtyrant]

Isn't he a murderer?

He personally genocides multiple species, yes.

[Fyraltari]

He personally genocides multiple species, yes.

Gotta say, I'm not liking the use of the present tense, there.

[Peelee]

Keeping in mind that all my knowledge of the Dragon Ball universe comes from the abridged serie and one enthusiastic friend, why did he kill Nappa again?

The original Dragon Ball universe is pretty dissimilar to the Z-and-after universe, so it gets a little wonky.

Also, Abridged was roughly accurate as to why he killed Nappa.

[LaZodiac]

Gotta say, I'm not liking the use of the present tense, there.

He doesn't do it any more, and only destroyed one planet on screen, it's fine.

[Peelee]

All the other planet destruction is OK now because he protects Earth, the important planet.

[Tvtyrant]

Vegeta starts out as a planet clearing slave soldier.
He kills the bug planet on screen.
Murders a few million earthlings and tries to kill them all.
Murders all but three of the Namekians he meets.
Lets the androids get woken up after learning they kill everyone.
Let's Call transform after he killed millions of people.
Kills a few hundred people, helps free Buy and knocks out Goku leading to the extermination of all humans.

Vegeta is by numbers the most evil anti-hero in comics. The man is responsible for death tolls in the billions, including most of the named cast.

[Rater202]

What are you, Roman? Or do that but intentionally mess the order up. Just to mess up with people.

Edit: about Son Goku, is name isn't a pun it's a literary reference, and "Monkey King" isn't a bad description of the character if what I was told is accurate.

I don't think it counts as a literary reference when the first lines of the Manga is the narrator flat out saying "hey, you remember Journey tot he Wes? Well, he's a funny version of it. Not let's introduce our take on the Monkey King."

tha'ts not a reference so much as just... an Adaption. They just replaced the traveling monk with a self-centered female closet pervert, changed Pigsy's name, and turned the turtle into a dude.

Granted, Princess Iron Fan tried to murder Wukong by trapping him in a furnace instead of falling in love with him because he committed a technical sexual assault trying to figure out if she was a boy or a girl, but in the grand scheme of things that's a minor detail.

Isn't he a murderer?

Gotta say, I'm not liking the use of the present tense, there.

HE stops committing Genocide after Frieza is defeated on Namek.

However, it should be nted that Saiyans are explicitly psychologically different from humans: They aren't easy to traumatize, they instinctively crave combat, they're less in touch with their emotions than humans are, and except the royal family and higher nobles they have no nesting instinct due to the fact that Saiyan children are self-sufficient from a very young age.

(The "Saiyan Elites" selectively bred themselves to care about their spouses beyond basic "hey, I like this person" for the sake of maintaining familial bloodlines. Goku as presented in the manga is basically an ideal father by Siyan standards: He protects his child... When his child can't handle it himself. He's there when his kid needs him, barring the sAiyn Saga when he was dead, but otherwise leaves him to his own devices and has absolute confidence in his capabilities.)

As a bit of side trivia: Gohan seems to have the best traits of both human and saiyan

For example: In human culture, a pacifist is someone who doesn't like fighting and refuses to do so, either under most circumstances or at all. In saiyan Culture, a pacifist is someone who thinks that you should leave the other guy alive sometime so you can fight them again later and that you should pick on people your own size instead of just slaughtering weaklings.

Saiyan Pacifists tend to not last long in the army during the period where the Saiyans were subjected to the World Trade Organization. Goku's parents met when his mother Gine was serving under his father Bardock but Gine eventually quit the army and became a butcher at a meat dispensary because she preferred actual fair fights to just slaughtering people. Originally it was implied that Goku not being a murderous bastard was because he hit his head as a small child and forgot h was a Saiyan, but now it seems that he takes after his mom.

However: The Saiyans of universe 6 also have those traits, and they're heroic defenders protecting other galactic civilizations from pirates.

The implication is that it's cultural: According to an Interview with Akira Toriyama and explained on in various side-games that he surprervises, In the Ancient Past, there was a conflict between benevolent saiyans led by a saiyan named Yamoshi and more actively malevolent saiyans.

During his last stand, Yamoshi had six of his compatriots pour their power and spirits into him, which sparked a transformation into a powerful being of divine power.

This was not enough to defeat the Evil Saiyans, and eventually the transformation wore off.

With the last of his strength, and realizing that he was losing, Yamoshi transformed into a Super Saiyan but lost control of his power and destroyed Planet Sadal, original homeworld of the Saiyans.

The survivors colonized planet plant, eventually renaming it planet Vegeta after their King(The King and Prince are always named 'Vegeta')

Yamoshi is the Origninator of he SuperSaiyan Leend and the first Super Saiyan God.

The implication being that the Evil Saiyans were the ones who survived and recolonized and so they shaped Planet Vegeta's culture.

And then the World Trade organization took over the Saiyans and used them as soldiers to wipe out the native dominant life forms of planes that they wanted to sell and that's the status quo of Saiyans when we find out about them.

tha'ts the culture that Vegeta grew up in. When introduced, he's just a complete bastard, but after Frieza was defeated he alternate between training and just... Hanging out on Earth with "these losers" because he has no where see to go, and slowly... very slowly, exposure to a culture that isn't shaped to the whms of active malefactors and genocidal tryants causes him to soften and develop empathy.

The first real sign of it is at the end of the Cell Games.

For the entire Android Saga, after finding out that Trunks is his son from the future, Vegeta is just an ******* to Trunks. The nicest thing he does is use Trunks as a sparring partner, but he makes it clear that he does not give a damn about Trunks wellbeing or about preventing the horrible future he comes from, he just wants to get stronger and prove he's the best.

Until Cell kills Trunks. Then...

Well, I think Team Four Star's parody gets the point across better than I ever could.


In the Buu saga, wanting to become stronger and defeat Goku was part of why he submitted to Babadi's control... But he was also kind of having a midlife crisis.

He realized that he was starting to care about people and that he wasn't a monster anymore and the fact that he was changing scared him. He wasn't sure who he was anymore and part of him wanted to go back.

In Super, once Vegeta's gotten over that, we see him as... Kind of a good guy. He takes his family to an amusement park and does his best to deal with being annoyed everything, he fights to protect others, he expresses concern for others... He sort of takes a mentorship role with Cabba, the universe 6 Saiyan, and during the Tournament of power he openly admits that if he gets a wish on the Super Dragon Balls he's going to use it to restore at least Universe 6.

In the Planet Eater Moro Arc, which is, unfortunately, manga only at this time, Vegeta has a moment where he rescues a namekian child that Mor was goignt o drain the life from and says "I've done a great evil to these people, the least I can do is make sure that no other harm befalls them... And they are not your food." and later has a conversation with Elder Moori that bills down to Vegeta expressing remorse for slaughtering that one village of Namekians who didn't get to come back due to Vegeta not technically working for Frieza at the time and being relieved when Moori responds that Namekians don't forget, but they don't hold grudges either.

In the current arc in the Manga, Beerus lets slip that he gave the Okay for Frieza to destroy planet Vegeta and Vegeta point blank says that the Saiyans were evil and deserved to be wiped out, which is a... massive bit of character development for someone who takes such pride in his Saiyan heritage.

[Peelee]

Kills a few hundred people, helps free Buy and knocks out Goku leading to the extermination of all humans.

They got better.

[Rater202]

Yeah, once they realized that they could use the dragon alls to bring people back to life, dEath kind of becomes pointless.

In the anime version of the Ressurection F storyline, they add a sequence of Piccolo being killed taking blast for Gohan, which caused a flashback to Picolo's death in the Saiyan saga and causes Gohan to finally commit to training instead of letting his skills atrophy when there's not a threat...

But once Frieza is killed again we don't see Piccolo being wished back. He's just alive again at the "the earth is saved" party. He doesn't even seem bothered by the fact that he was dead maybe an hour beforehand.

Honestly, it bugs me that none of them ever bit the bullet and wished for immortality. Just cut out the middle man already.

[Tvtyrant]

They got better.

The city he and Nappa destroyed conspicuously did not though. I don't remember if the people Cell ate or the androids blew up did but he is still well within the running for "worst murderer in history."

[Anonymouswizard]

Sounds like one femtoEmperor to me. How would you expect me to take that seriously as the actions of a villain?