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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    Default Re: On The Canyon's Illusions

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowknight12 View Post
    Well, the main issue is that the target of Meld into Stone is not the stone, but "you", so it's not really the stone being targeted by the spell and transmuted.
    I mean yeah, that’s what I’d rule. But Rich probably doesn’t remember, or care.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squire Doodad View Post
    I could write a lengthy explanation, but honestly just what danielxcutter said.
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  2. - Top - End - #32
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    Default Re: On The Canyon's Illusions

    And I just had an idea:

    A dwarf loved to meld into stone so much that he began to pick up pieces of stone and they incorporated into his body. Then he started to leave pieces of himself behind until he became living stone.

    Sorry, back to your previous program.

  3. - Top - End - #33
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    Default Re: On The Canyon's Illusions

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Havran View Post
    I just noticed a strange thing about True Seeing vs. Meld into Stone: Redcloak obviously thought TS will help him against MiS, but if so, why didn't Tarquin with his TS ring observe Durkon in the pyramid?
    He did not look to his left?
    Quote Originally Posted by brian 333 View Post
    And I just had an idea:

    A dwarf loved to meld into stone so much that he began to pick up pieces of stone and they incorporated into his body. Then he started to leave pieces of himself behind until he became living stone.

    Sorry, back to your previous program.
    Sounds like a fantasy cyborg.
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  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Default Re: On The Canyon's Illusions

    Quote Originally Posted by NerdyKris View Post
    Which would be a bad assumption to make, since the gates fell because each one relied on ONE aspect of defense instead of pooling their resources together. Part of the issue with the Order of the Scribble is that they all insist their way is the best way, which resulted in a system where the guardians at the different gates couldn't sufficiently defend each other.

    It's true that the fatal weakness in Girard's gate couldn't possibly have been foreseen, but it's still symbolic that his paranoia resulted in a situation where one spell wiped them all out. They absolutely were arrogant enough that they might not have considered a vampire or lich attacking them.
    Yeah in fairness that is basically the point of the Scribble vs the Stick -- I still think Serini is going to either be shocked or at least respect the overall cooperation and respect the OotS members have for each other.

    Whether she does that before or after taking them all out Rambo-style is yet to be determined

  5. - Top - End - #35
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    Default Re: On The Canyon's Illusions

    Quote Originally Posted by Ionathus View Post
    Yeah in fairness that is basically the point of the Scribble vs the Stick -- I still think Serini is going to either be shocked or at least respect the overall cooperation and respect the OotS members have for each other.

    Whether she does that before or after taking them all out Rambo-style is yet to be determined
    Hmm.

    I think that might be the problem I have with her, actually, besides the obvious “trying to hamstring the protagonists’ actions” thing.

    While her distrust with how well the OotS and the SG have done is understandable, her position is “well, let’s have someone clean up after this later” rather than “let’s do our best to stop it”.

    I mean seriously, does she know how dangerous the Snarl is at all? She just seems to think of it as a generic doomsday device and the Order as dime-a-dozen noob adventurers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squire Doodad View Post
    I could write a lengthy explanation, but honestly just what danielxcutter said.
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  6. - Top - End - #36
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    Default Re: On The Canyon's Illusions

    Quote Originally Posted by danielxcutter View Post
    Hmm.

    I think that might be the problem I have with her, actually, besides the obvious “trying to hamstring the protagonists’ actions” thing.

    While her distrust with how well the OotS and the SG have done is understandable, her position is “well, let’s have someone clean up after this later” rather than “let’s do our best to stop it”.

    I mean seriously, does she know how dangerous the Snarl is at all? She just seems to think of it as a generic doomsday device and the Order as dime-a-dozen noob adventurers.
    She likely knows just as much as Shojo did.
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  7. - Top - End - #37
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    Default Re: On The Canyon's Illusions

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    She likely knows just as much as Shojo did.
    Shojo knows that, well, the Snarl butchered GODS. And she’s willing to let control of it fall into his phalanges(and yes I know there’s no way it will either way) on the off chance that some adventurer team will eventually be able to defeat him. Well breaking news lady, this is that friggin’ team for the love of Jesus Christ.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squire Doodad View Post
    I could write a lengthy explanation, but honestly just what danielxcutter said.
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  8. - Top - End - #38
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    Default Re: On The Canyon's Illusions

    Quote Originally Posted by danielxcutter View Post
    Hmm.

    I think that might be the problem I have with her, actually, besides the obvious “trying to hamstring the protagonists’ actions” thing.

    While her distrust with how well the OotS and the SG have done is understandable, her position is “well, let’s have someone clean up after this later” rather than “let’s do our best to stop it”.

    I mean seriously, does she know how dangerous the Snarl is at all? She just seems to think of it as a generic doomsday device and the Order as dime-a-dozen noob adventurers.
    Well, kind of...I feel like her specific problem is the opposite in some ways. She's too afraid of the Snarl, so much so that she wants to take the Rogue mentality of "live to fight another day" to its logical extreme of "let the Villain win for a few decades/centuries, because that's preferable to total eradication of (this iteration of) life.

  9. - Top - End - #39
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    Default Re: On The Canyon's Illusions

    Quote Originally Posted by Ionathus View Post
    Well, kind of...I feel like her specific problem is the opposite in some ways. She's too afraid of the Snarl, so much so that she wants to take the Rogue mentality of "live to fight another day" to its logical extreme of "let the Villain win for a few decades/centuries, because that's preferable to total eradication of (this iteration of) life.
    Well, that too. Actually, that makes more sense.

    But also, she seems to think it won’t be forever, or is fooling herself that it won’t.

    Each Scribbler has parallels to members of the OotS, and this might be one. To Haley, perhaps?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squire Doodad View Post
    I could write a lengthy explanation, but honestly just what danielxcutter said.
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  10. - Top - End - #40
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    Default Re: On The Canyon's Illusions

    Quote Originally Posted by danielxcutter View Post
    Well, that too. Actually, that makes more sense.

    But also, she seems to think it won’t be forever, or is fooling herself that it won’t.

    Each Scribbler has parallels to members of the OotS, and this might be one. To Haley, perhaps?
    Girard seems a better fit for Haley, still. Maybe she's what Elan would look like if Haley and Roy started to try killing each other over Belkar's death.
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  11. - Top - End - #41
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    Default Re: On The Canyon's Illusions

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Girard seems a better fit for Haley, still. Maybe she's what Elan would look like if Haley and Roy started to try killing each other over Belkar's death.
    Personally I don't see a huge comparison between most of them. Girard was a great parallel to how Haley's upbringing screwed her up, and
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    Lirian's/Dorukan's arrogance towards Xykon (and how he beat both of them with unconventional tactics) could also play off of V's arcane arrogance,
    but that's about all I've got.

  12. - Top - End - #42
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    Default Re: On The Canyon's Illusions

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Girard seems a better fit for Haley, still. Maybe she's what Elan would look like if Haley and Roy started to try killing each other over Belkar's death.
    Hmm. Well, it’s not like a single Scribbler corresponds to a single OotS member. Girard was a dual-wielding ranger(Belkar) and Cha-based caster(Elan) who specialized in subterfuge(Haley), for example.

    But in personality, Elan seems to fit pretty well from what we know of her, yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ionathus View Post
    Personally I don't see a huge comparison between most of them. Girard was a great parallel to how Haley's upbringing screwed her up, and
    Spoiler: SoD
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    Lirian's/Dorukan's arrogance towards Xykon (and how he beat both of them with unconventional tactics) could also play off of V's arcane arrogance,
    but that's about all I've got.
    Well, Soon failed where Roy overcame, I think.
    Last edited by danielxcutter; 2021-06-01 at 12:07 PM.

  13. - Top - End - #43
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    Default Re: On The Canyon's Illusions

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Girard seems a better fit for Haley, still. Maybe she's what Elan would look like if Haley and Roy started to try killing each other over Belkar's death.
    I think even Elan would freak out if Haley and Roy started to try killing each other over Belkar's death of all things.
    (Also I'm pretty sure Serini wasn't Girard's girlfriend and I'm absolutely certain that she did not idolize Soon. (By which I mean the two situations are hardly comparable.))
    Last edited by Metastachydium; 2021-06-01 at 12:15 PM.

  14. - Top - End - #44
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    Default Re: On The Canyon's Illusions

    Quote Originally Posted by Metastachydium View Post
    I think even Elan would freak out if Haley and Roy started to try killing each other over Belkar's death of all things.
    (Also I'm pretty sure Serini wasn't Girard's girlfriend and I'm absolutely certain that she did not idolize Soon. (By which I mean the two situations are hardly comparable.))
    She did seem to entertain the idea of taking Paladin levels and she did draw hearts around Girard in her diary, FWIW.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squire Doodad View Post
    I could write a lengthy explanation, but honestly just what danielxcutter said.
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  15. - Top - End - #45
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    Default Re: On The Canyon's Illusions

    Quote Originally Posted by danielxcutter View Post
    She did seem to entertain the idea of taking Paladin levels
    I tend to read that as teasing Soon with the idea to annoy him (and if his facial expresiion is anything to go by, he might agree with that assessment).
    As for the hearts, „had a crush on him when Dorukan was still the new guy (and maybe later too)” and „they've been in a happy and fulfilling relationship for the last three-and-a-half books” are not quite the same thing if you ask me.

  16. - Top - End - #46
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    Default Re: On The Canyon's Illusions

    Quote Originally Posted by Metastachydium View Post
    I tend to read that as teasing Soon with the idea to annoy him (and if his facial expresiion is anything to go by, he might agree with that assessment).
    As for the hearts, „had a crush on him when Dorukan was still the new guy (and maybe later too)” and „they've been in a happy and fulfilling relationship for the last three-and-a-half books” are not quite the same thing if you ask me.
    I think Serini’s grown disillusioned by both, which is a foil to Haley and Elan developing a relationship and Elan and Roy getting along better now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squire Doodad View Post
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  17. - Top - End - #47
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    Default Re: On The Canyon's Illusions

    Are Serini and Minrah supposed to be parallel characters?

  18. - Top - End - #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by danielxcutter View Post
    I think Serini’s grown disillusioned by both, which is a foil to Haley and Elan developing a relationship and Elan and Roy getting along better now.
    Might be, but I still find the parallel made between the two trios at least somewhat forced.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ionathus View Post
    Personally I don't see a huge comparison between most of them. Girard was a great parallel to how Haley's upbringing screwed her up, and
    Spoiler: SoD
    Show
    Lirian's/Dorukan's arrogance towards Xykon (and how he beat both of them with unconventional tactics) could also play off of V's arcane arrogance,
    but that's about all I've got.
    I believe even those parallels are tenuous at best. The Scribblers are just different band of adventurers.
    There must be some sense of order - personal, political or dramatic - and if no one else is going to bring it to this world, I will.

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    Default Re: On The Canyon's Illusions

    Quote Originally Posted by Ionathus View Post
    Personally I don't see a huge comparison between most of them. Girard was a great parallel to how Haley's upbringing screwed her up, and
    Spoiler: SoD
    Show
    Lirian's/Dorukan's arrogance towards Xykon (and how he beat both of them with unconventional tactics) could also play off of V's arcane arrogance,
    but that's about all I've got.
    I mean, the Stickers aren't the reincarnations of the Scribblers or anything, but there is some intentional parallels/foiling going on. I don't think it's a coincidence there are six of them too.
    The Order of the Scribble is a more powerful but ultimately failed version of the Order of the Stick.
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  21. - Top - End - #51
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    Default Re: On The Canyon's Illusions

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    I mean, the Stickers aren't the reincarnations of the Scribblers or anything, but there is some intentional parallels/foiling going on. I don't think it's a coincidence there are six of them too.
    The Order of the Scribble is a more powerful but ultimately failed version of the Order of the Stick.
    As an Order, yes. I think the Scribblers' failures as a party are a much stronger parallel to the Stickers' hard-won cooperation than any tenuous comparisons to individual characters.

  22. - Top - End - #52
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    Default Re: On The Canyon's Illusions

    I think the parallels are less personal and more archetypal. Parties tend to have "someone who is idealistic and perhaps even naive," "someone who is distrustful and perhaps even paranoid," "someone who takes charge perhaps to the point of being callous," "someone who values some abstract goal (like magic, nature or their religion) perhaps even over people," "someone who is violent and might run the risk of being one-dimensional" and so on.

    The parallels aren't about the characters themselves, but about the repeated stereotypes D&D parties tend to see.

  23. - Top - End - #53
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    Default Re: On The Canyon's Illusions

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowknight12 View Post
    I think the parallels are less personal and more archetypal. Parties tend to have "someone who is idealistic and perhaps even naive," "someone who is distrustful and perhaps even paranoid," "someone who takes charge perhaps to the point of being callous," "someone who values some abstract goal (like magic, nature or their religion) perhaps even over people," "someone who is violent and might run the risk of being one-dimensional" and so on.

    The parallels aren't about the characters themselves, but about the repeated stereotypes D&D parties tend to see.
    Yeah, that sounds about right.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squire Doodad View Post
    I could write a lengthy explanation, but honestly just what danielxcutter said.
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  24. - Top - End - #54
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    Default Re: On The Canyon's Illusions

    And there are six because the same players, (minus that guy who was a jerk and the DM's ex-girlfriend,) are playing the DM's last attempt to salvage his setting.

    Yes, I know there are no players.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brian 333 View Post
    And there are six because the same players, (minus that guy who was a jerk and the DM's ex-girlfriend,) are playing the DM's last attempt to salvage his setting.

    Yes, I know there are no players.
    ...Not sure what this is supposed to be referring to even within the concept of there being players, since (as you say) there's the same number of PCs.
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  26. - Top - End - #56
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    Default Re: On The Canyon's Illusions

    In my experience there are four to six players at the table and when an ex-girlfriend or a player leaves another joins. The size of the party remains the same over long periods of time and across many campaigns.

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    Yeah but like, who is played by the newbie/person who left and why does the leaver need to be the DM’s Ex?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    I recognize that Conservation of Detail is Overrated, but I find the event that I am using as evidence for my theory above important enough/given enough focus to qualify for what I call Elan’s Exception, “Who wastes perfectly good foreshadowing like that?”. Also I have never correctly predicted any event in any piece of media so take this theory with a grain of salt (I call this Peelee’s Ye Old Reminder).

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    Default Re: On The Canyon's Illusions

    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    Yeah but like, who is played by the newbie/person who left and why does the leaver need to be the DM’s Ex?
    Well, DMs don't usually get Supernatural abilities...
    An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.

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  29. - Top - End - #59
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    Default Re: On The Canyon's Illusions

    Quote Originally Posted by Squire Doodad View Post
    Well, DMs don't usually get Supernatural abilities...
    Yes but DMs get way more feats than either.
    Arrrgh, here be me extended sig!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    I recognize that Conservation of Detail is Overrated, but I find the event that I am using as evidence for my theory above important enough/given enough focus to qualify for what I call Elan’s Exception, “Who wastes perfectly good foreshadowing like that?”. Also I have never correctly predicted any event in any piece of media so take this theory with a grain of salt (I call this Peelee’s Ye Old Reminder).

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