Mage Killer build

[Kaelik]

My understanding is Kaelik is restricing himself to core spells for this thread. In Post #132 Kaelik quotes kemmotar thinking he is fighting a lich wizard so why didn't Kaelik correct him regarding that point and name the spell he is using? I missed the post where the spell was cast. How is he doing what he is saying? Is he using a non core spell, Shapechange or the Lich template for his response?

Your understanding is wrong. First of all, I made one statement to one poster that I could build a Core Wizard that could defeat any Core non-caster. If you had actually been reading what I was saying before that statement and ever since that poster left I have made it abundantly clear that I have never played a game with the Core only restriction and I never intend to. I hate the core only restriction that people attempt to foist on others only because some commonly used option completely negates their strategy.

I didn't correct him on fighting a Lich (Or I didn't correct him on whether he was, I did correct him on what would happen.) because no one is duelling anyone else on this thread. Maybe he runs into Liches in game, I don't know. I would never tell someone else what they are allowed to fight in game.

So to answer your question, I never used the Shapechange spell, or the Lich Template. I also never claimed to be a Lich. I did however cast Elemental Body (and in some situations Veil of Undeath.) And some of my characters are also Necropolitians. (Mostly only the Necromancers.)

[Kaelik]

Why bother? He's still wrong.

About what? I said that the Lich doesn't need to make a Fort Save to ignore your Death Attack. He doesn't. That seems to be the very definition of being right to me.

[kemmotar]

Maybe he was talking about my mistake forgetting that undead are immune to death effects...

[Kaelik]

Maybe he was talking about my mistake forgetting that undead are immune to death effects...

Oh. Sorry. I actually have a fatal flaw in these forums. I usually just look at avatars. So the two of you confused me there, but even when I went back (after realizing there where actually two posters) I thought that was your comment, so I thought you were saying I was wrong.

Also
@CASTLEMIKE
Why would you expect me to be only using core when kemmotar was clearly talking about his use of Death Strike Bracers, an item that is very obviously not Core.

[Stephen_E]

Of course the counter to the Wizard with Forsight/Celerity/Timestop is a Magekiller Pixie design wielding a spiked chain (with a spell disruption effect to takeout overland flight) covered in Dust of Dissappearance. They move to 5' above you with a held action set to attack anyone casting a swift spell before going into inititive, with a contingency AMS triggered by any contingency spell cast within 15'.

If the mage moves more than 5' you get an AAO, if he swift casts you attack and should do enough damage (mageslayer feat chain) to cause him to fail his concentration spell to get the spell off, if he tries and casts a normal spell you attack because he can't defensively cast, if he has a contingency escape spell your contingency AMS kicks in killing all magic, that's assuming his Forsight even works on you given you're mindblanked, non-detection (Occult Slayer) with Dust of Diassappearance - so he can't even see you with True seeing.

Now while it's true the Wizard could just doing nothing, which pins the Mageslayer from doing anything without losing the readied action, that's what the rest of the mageslayers party is for, killing the Wizard. You can just imagine it. The Wizard and the Mageslayer locked in immobility because to act is to give the game away, watching the fight between the Wizard's minions and the mageslayers party, knowing if the otherside's support forces win they're screwed.

Stephen

[kemmotar]

So what classes are you going to be using? SA i would say is the most damaging way in few hits but then again can't be used if foresight isn't affected by mindblank. Also, you would lose 4 points of BAB so you can't really afford to take a low BAB class and lose more than that. Also i wonder how your contingency could kick in before the contingency teleport (as an example for an escape spell) kicks in. Besides, in order for contingency to activate you have to be able to see the trigger. So you can't say that as soon as his contingency escape spell kicks in AMF kick in since you wouldn't see the wizard casting anything. Thus the only indication that there was a contingency teleport is the wizard disappearing.

Maybe you could go around that with ring of spell battle. It allows you to sense any spell being cast within 30 ft and you can recognise it with a spellcraft check and then with another spellcraft check (1/day) as an immediate action redirect the target of the spell...you can also choose an invalid target to waste the spell...Thus you sense the teleport before it happens and since you know the spell is being cast contingency AMF kicks in.

Also, later in the battle you can redirect any really dangerous spells back to the caster as an immediate action to have a chance at killing him with his own spell (oh the irony...)

and there is a pretty easy way to go around dust of disappearance and any invisibility for that matter. Permanent arcane sight. You can see the magical auras, thus even when the other is invisible you can see the magical aura of his invisibility and items...

EDIT: and yes i do use more than core since i find using only core for this silly. In core wizards are the ultimate machines of destruction...only later was this realised and they got books out in the attempt to balance things out...Now how far they got is of no importance...with the materials given in both core and SRD we have to make the ultimate mage-killer

[Woot Spitum]

Now while it's true the Wizard could just doing nothing, which pins the Mageslayer from doing anything without losing the readied action, that's what the rest of the mageslayers party is for, killing the Wizard. You can just imagine it. The Wizard and the Mageslayer locked in immobility because to act is to give the game away, watching the fight between the Wizard's minions and the mageslayers party, knowing if the otherside's support forces win they're screwed.

Stephen

Wait, you're saying that your mageslayer can't actually kill his target and relies on other people to kill it? What about the wizard's party? Does that mean that the mageslayer only wins if his allies are better than the wizard's allies? What happens if the wizard took leadership? What if the wizard is being guarded by a greater planar ally? What if the wizard created an army of undead and/or golems?

When coming up with builds like this, you should assume that you are facing your target alone. While having allies makes sense, there's little limit on what they are, or how many of them there are.