Results 1 to 25 of 25
Thread: Fenris vs Tiamat
-
2021-05-30, 10:37 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2011
- Location
- Virginia
- Gender
Fenris vs Tiamat
So, Fenris made the goblinoids, and I presume Tiamat made the Kobolds because they worship her and that seems to be how it works.
Both are lvl 1 encounters for adventurers, and we know at least 1 adventurer that just loves to hunt them down. So, what did Tiamat get right that Fenris got wrong? Dragon protection?
-
2021-05-30, 10:39 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2018
Re: Fenris vs Tiamat
Last edited by Worldsong; 2021-05-30 at 10:39 AM.
-
2021-05-30, 11:05 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2007
Re: Fenris vs Tiamat
The integration of kobolds on the Western Continent may be a factor - kobolds, lizardfolk, and humans form an integrated society where kobolds are not seen as monsters but as people.
Whereas on the Northern continent, Kobolds look to me to be in a similar same position as goblins, because no direct Tiamat involvement there.
That's why, in Origin of PCs, they're basically the Order's first combat encounter, with the Order, on seeing them, immediately preparing the attack - preempted by the kobolds attacking first.Marut-2 Avatar by Serpentine
New Marut Avatar by Linkele
-
2021-05-30, 02:10 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2019
- Location
- Magrathea
- Gender
Re: Fenris vs Tiamat
Tiamat had an active role in their existence, while Fenris apparently abandoned the Goblins within a few centuries (or possibly even before the world was finished).
This in turn meant the Goblins had fewer Clerics - thus, fewer in-house sets of goblin adventurers given how vital Clerics can be - and harder integration into other civilizations. Even if the gods a given group worships varies over time - maybe the Halflings that worship Loki were once part of a group of Skadi worshippers - the lack of exposure to any pantheon means that role in an adventuring party is harder to fill.
Even if it might end up being the thing that saves all the godsLast edited by Squire Doodad; 2021-05-30 at 02:15 PM.
An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.
See my extended signature here! May contain wit, candor, and somewhere from 52 to 8127 walruses.
Purple is humorous descriptions made up on the fly
Green is serious talk about hypothetical
Blue is irony and sarcasm
"I think, therefore I am,
I walk, therefore I stand,
I sleep, therefore I dream;
I joke, therefore I meme."
-Squire Doodad
-
2021-05-30, 03:09 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2018
Re: Fenris vs Tiamat
One assumes Freddy never answered the goblins’ prayers leading to never having clerics and so forth.
Which is strange as he does have clerics from at least one race'Utúlie'n aurë! Aiya Eldalië ar Atanatári, utúlie'n aurë! “The day has come! Behold, people of the Eldar and Fathers of Men, the day has come!" And all those who heard his great voice echo in the hills answered, crying:'Auta i lómë!" The night is passing!"
-
2021-05-30, 04:58 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2019
- Location
- Magrathea
- Gender
Re: Fenris vs Tiamat
He abandoned the goblins specifically; clearly he thought the half-troll or whatever his high priest is was sufficiently badass to qualify as a Cleric.
(I'd say he seems petty enough to refuse to interact with the goblins because they "didn't do their job", though that wouldn't be their fault and there's no actual evidence to imply he would do that.)An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.
See my extended signature here! May contain wit, candor, and somewhere from 52 to 8127 walruses.
Purple is humorous descriptions made up on the fly
Green is serious talk about hypothetical
Blue is irony and sarcasm
"I think, therefore I am,
I walk, therefore I stand,
I sleep, therefore I dream;
I joke, therefore I meme."
-Squire Doodad
-
2021-05-30, 05:02 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2015
Re: Fenris vs Tiamat
I'd say it's more likely he refuses to interact with the goblins because he refuses to admit he made a mistake with regards to the whole 'short lifespan, high reproductive rate' bit behind the goblin design. That's exactly the kind of petty negligence one would expect from a CE deity.
-
2021-05-30, 05:19 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2019
- Location
- Somewhere over th rainbow
-
2021-05-30, 05:23 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2008
Re: Fenris vs Tiamat
Well, Thor said Fenris always does that kind of monsters and always get bored when that doesn't work. So we know two things: that tactic is wrong, and Fenris is stubborn (and probably an imbecile).
Tiamat on the other hand looks pretty clever, and we know she care a lot about kobolds (from Malack).Last edited by Vikenlugaid; 2021-05-30 at 05:24 PM.
-
2021-05-30, 06:45 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2018
Re: Fenris vs Tiamat
Kobolds are inherently less powerful then her main focus (chromatic dragons) so they are more intense in their faith and produce actual clerics which chromatics rarely do.
'Utúlie'n aurë! Aiya Eldalië ar Atanatári, utúlie'n aurë! “The day has come! Behold, people of the Eldar and Fathers of Men, the day has come!" And all those who heard his great voice echo in the hills answered, crying:'Auta i lómë!" The night is passing!"
-
2021-05-31, 10:48 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2015
- Location
- Texas
- Gender
Re: Fenris vs Tiamat
So are skeletons. So are bandits.
Yeah, her most chaotic majesty is certainly going to demand worship from her created minions ... and for that matter, why aren't you worshipping her??!!
[Tiamat voice]
"How dare you ignore me??!!"
*Tiamat readies one of her five breath weapons*
Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2021-05-31 at 10:49 AM.
Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society
-
2021-06-03, 02:22 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2011
- Location
- Virginia
- Gender
Re: Fenris vs Tiamat
Wait, is the breed fast die young mechanic that horrible to Goblin-kind?
Sure, lots of kids means lots of resources, which implies the need to expand, but that doesn't preclude them from finding ways to peacefully expand or integrate with the other ( I guess to use a term or phrase here) "better engineered" species.
Kobolds integrate when they need to and have Halfling-thwarting Kobold villages when they have to. They also don't seem to be "rare" by any means. More clerics, and on friendly terms with Chromatic Dragons seem like big plusses, but that still makes them a Monster Species that is a Lvl 1 encounter. For some adventurers that is a moving chunk of XP....
Maybe Kobolds are actually more likely to be like KillKill and acutally tend to have non-monster NPC classes?
-
2021-06-03, 04:07 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2013
- Gender
Re: Fenris vs Tiamat
I'm not sure the kobolds are in a better position at all. Why would they be? Why would they need to be?
The few kobolds we've seen mostly fit into the "easy XP fodder" category as well, as far as they were treated by (humanoid) PCs.
-
2021-06-03, 06:10 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2018
Re: Fenris vs Tiamat
The wiki list 5 notable kobolds:
+ The Oracle
+ Kikil, the chancellor of the empire of Blood
+ Yikyik, Yokyok and Yukyuk, three successive members of the Linear Guild, so arguably PCs. The first two were killed by their nemesis (Belkar), the last one was killed by collateral damage.
=> Out of the "monster races", kobolds are probably those shown to be the most integrated in human societies.
(Additionally, Malack explicitly says that Tiamat prefers Kobolds to Lizardfolks. If this is correct, they do have some advantage compared to Goblinoids which are neglected by Fenrir)
-
2021-06-03, 11:32 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2020
Re: Fenris vs Tiamat
Tiamat went out of her way to give one of them the gift of prophecy, so I assume they are in her favor at least somewhat.
-
2021-06-04, 04:15 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2013
- Gender
-
2021-06-26, 12:05 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2020
Re: Fenris vs Tiamat
The Empire of Blood seems weirdly more egalitarian as far as monster races goes.
-
2021-06-28, 06:31 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2007
- Location
- Beverly, MA, USA
- Gender
Re: Fenris vs Tiamat
Number of Character Appearances VII - To Absent Friends
Currently playing a level 20 aasimar necromancer named Zebulun Salathiel and a level 9 goliath diviner named Lo-Kag.
-
2021-07-03, 09:15 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2018
- Location
- EU
- Gender
-
2021-07-03, 01:42 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2017
Re: Fenris vs Tiamat
Just had a thought that for a Dragon Goddess to get much devotion and souls, she'd need a kobold race. Dragons are few and immortal, they're kobe beef while kobolds are the carrots and peas. Tiamat observed Fenris' get-rich-quick scheme and perfected it by not forgetting the kobolds. So while Fenris lives off Minotaur steak, Tiamat has a better diet of souls.
-
2021-07-04, 11:38 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2016
- Location
- Seoul
- Gender
Re: Fenris vs Tiamat
Also if dragons are anything like their "canon" counterparts when it comes to religion... she probably doesn't actually get a whole lot of high-quality stuff besides their souls. Most chromatic dragons at least low-key worship her but devout worship isn't particularly common.
Of course we have absolutely no knowledge about how it works in OotSverse besides the barebones, and it's not like Rich's a stranger to shying away from deviating from the tendencies of "monstrous" races.Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Ao3 FanFiction.net DeviantArt
We also have a TvTropes page!
Currently playing: Red Hand of Doom(campaign journal)Campaign still going on, but journal discontinued until further notice.
Extended sig here.
-
2021-07-05, 08:29 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2020
Re: Fenris vs Tiamat
What Belkar did was put up a bounty poster that said "Kobold Menace Threatens Local Halfling, 20 gp per kobold head". While it was meant to kill Yokyok, who wasn't even evil in the first place, it also was just an excuse to kill other kobolds if an adventurer took up the offer on the poster. That 100% would not work if his enemy had been a human, elf, lizardfolk, etc.
-
2021-07-05, 08:54 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2016
- Location
- Seoul
- Gender
Re: Fenris vs Tiamat
I mean, I don’t think Belkar specifically did that to be racist. I think that and killing the goblins who surrendered was about being able to get away with it.
Also I think his enemy being a lizardfolk would have worked, because aside from the Empire of Blood they don’t have much representation.Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Ao3 FanFiction.net DeviantArt
We also have a TvTropes page!
Currently playing: Red Hand of Doom(campaign journal)Campaign still going on, but journal discontinued until further notice.
Extended sig here.
-
2021-07-05, 09:08 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2018
- Location
- EU
- Gender
Re: Fenris vs Tiamat
-
2021-07-05, 09:22 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2007
- Location
- Beverly, MA, USA
- Gender
Re: Fenris vs Tiamat
I don't think it would have worked the same way if Yokyok had been human, because adventurers don't typically go on adventures like "Human Menace Threatens Local Halfling, 20gp per human head." Belkar would have had to come up with a different hook, like sketching a picture of Yokyok and claiming he was an assassin or necromancer or something.
Number of Character Appearances VII - To Absent Friends
Currently playing a level 20 aasimar necromancer named Zebulun Salathiel and a level 9 goliath diviner named Lo-Kag.