A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2
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  1. - Top - End - #421
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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Percy Jackson

    Valmark to give us some extra candidates.
    Quotes:
    Spoiler
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    Quote Originally Posted by lamech View Post
    Trusting Murska worked out great!
    Quote Originally Posted by happyturtle View Post
    A Murska without lies is like a day without sunshine.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xihirli View Post
    I say we completely leave our fate in the hands of the trustworthy Murska and continue in complete safety.

  2. - Top - End - #422
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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Percy Jackson

    Well. Everyone (almost) is trying to kill me. What a surprise. I was expecting to be vigged last night, so I'm grateful for 48 hours' more life, I suppose.

    My only defence is "I'm an idiot" which I know isn't even provable. So I'm just going to have to accept this.

    I've got some analysis in my Apogee QT which I will paste into here - it's all from day one so will be a little outdated by now - and then I can try and do some more. Not that it's likely to do me any good, but maybe I can make up for the day when you could have been killing a wolf instead of an idiot neutral. And then I can go and laugh at myself in deadchat, which will at least be less stressful.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Wait... why is Murska not trying to kill me?

    Do you think Valmark is likely to be my partner?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Spoiler: Now-useless wolf!Batcathat analysis
    Show

    Assuming wolf!Batcathat:
    AvatarVecna remains unreadable.
    Bladescape gets town points for being early on the Batcathat wagon, but loses them for hopping off again
    Caoimhin could easily be a partner - their first post was pretty wishy-washy on them and I don't think they've answered my question about their townread yet.
    Elenna soft-defended Batcathat early on so could be a partner I guess?
    EmmyNecromancer is probably telling the truth (I believe her claim anyway, but sheeping onto a partner wagon that early is highly unlikely)
    JeenLeen was the first Batcathat vote and one of the earliest serious votes of the game so is unlikely to be bussing.
    Libro is more or less confirmed town for the counterclaim
    Murska exists, despite the fact I keep forgetting it. He voted for Batcathat which I guess is good?
    Xihirli claimed not to like any of the wagons without actually elaborating which could be partnery but on the other hand did we really have w/w wagons earlier?
    Zelphas voting Batcathat is also probably town especially just after your claim when there was a distraction to talk about.
    Not wolves:
    Apogee1
    EmmyNecromancer
    JeenLeen
    Libro
    Zelphas

    Maybe wolves *shrug*
    AvatarVecna
    Bladescape
    Book Wombat
    flat_footed
    MornShine
    Murska
    Rogan
    rogue_alchemist
    Shal06
    Totadileplayz
    Valmark
    Xihirli

    Likely wolves:
    CaoimhinTheCape
    Elenna

    Which... I feel all right about that. My likely wolves are both people I suspected to some extent before the Batcathat claims happened. That being said I have far too many null reads. I'll work through them if you don't decide to have me killed first.


    Spoiler: More-useful neutral!Batcathat analysis
    Show
    Okay, too busy being mad at myself to focus on other stuff.

    Assuming neutral!Batcathat:
    I think there's a good chance of there being a wolf in the other neutral claims. Yes, I am aware I'm now the most suspicious neutral claim. (I still have a chance of winning even if I die, and honestly I probably deserve to. Die, that is. Not win.)

    Unless you have any private neutral claims I'm not aware of, I'd vote for JeenLeen over Emmy every time, just because I can't imagine a newbie wolf fakeclaiming in the way Emmy did. Plus Emmy's claim is easy(ish) to test whereas we don't even know what Jeen's win-con is.

    Beyond that... I can't really clear anyone. Even Libro has a chance to be a wolf truthfully counterclaiming. So... I'm just at "hope Batcathat is a wolf because otherwise I have barely any useful reads and am probably a dead demigoddess walking in any case".

    I may be back to scream into the abyss about my own stupidity for a while, but if not see you when you wake up and order my death.


    Spoiler: General readslist
    Show
    Reads list from yesterday, updated with more recent events. Alphabetical within tiers.

    Town:
    Apogee1 is a child of Demeter until proven otherwise.

    Bladescape... I think I like him. I agreed with a few of his early reads, but looking back I'm with AV in thinking he'd contributed more than he had. Though I like that he's not afraid to argue with AV. The Batcathat vote and switch evens out to mildy town at best.

    Valmark's reaction to the Apogee claim fits with his town meta iirc- not particularly confident on this but with my lack of other townreads it's enough for day one.

    Null:
    AvatarVecna. I actually like quite a few of their points and my gut says vaguely town, but they're AV and they could definitely fake them as wolf. My gut is unreliable when it comes to AV.

    Book Wombat: lack of AI content

    EmmyNecromancer: claimed neutral. I think I believe their claim at this point - it seems a weird thing to do publicly and unprompted as a wolf.

    flat_footed: lack of AI content

    JeenLeen: claimed neutral. More sceptical of this than Emmy, given the lack of win-con or powers claimed, but not interested in killing them today when there's wolfy people around.

    Libro: conftown if Batcathat flips wolf for obvious reasons. Otherwise null, maybe a slight townlean as a wolf would be less likely to counter a claim they knew didn't come from a wolf?

    MornShine: hmm. I kind of agree Xihirli is acting odd, but then Xihirli is always odd. The post itself is... saying "incredibly suspicious" and then in the same post "this could also be town" feels a little off but not necessarily wolfy.

    Murska: lack of AI content

    Rogan: *shrug* I don't know them at all, and there's quite a few mechanics-based posts that I'm bad at reading, so I'll just go with null for now.

    rogue_alchemist: my gut says mildly wolfy, but I seem to remember he used to be That One Player I scumread regardless of his actual alignment, so leaving him at null.

    Shal06: lack of AI content early on. Didn't respond that well to my questions but cutting him slack for being new.

    Xihirli... is Xihirli but isn't acting like Xihirli?!? I mean. It's odd, but not necessarily wolfy odd. And I'm not really inspired by the case against her. Hmm. She has been entertaining though!

    Zelphas exists and jumped on the Batcathat wagon, so town if Batcathat is a wolf... or then again, they hopped off before the claim, which I didn't notice earlier. So only a slight townlean. Otherwise *shrug* nothing they've done has really made much of an impression, so null?

    Scum:
    Batcathat: okay, not actually an outed wolf, despite what people who don't know about my stupidity think. But still likely to be a wolf, with the Libro cc and the switch to a hard-to-test neutral claim.

    CaoimhinTheCape. I didn't really like the switch to a random vote when quite a lot had already happened, but looking back through the ISO I don't hate it as much as I remember. But the unexplained Batcathat townread is concerning regardless of Bat's alignment.

    Elenna. I also had a gut dislike of that opening post, and until now didn't really remember much she's done. Reading through her ISO her posts are Fine but still aren't really doing much for me. Has partner equity with Batcathat.

    Totadileplayz: again, another "random vote late in the game". Not a fan of the focus on Jeen, it could be an easy thing to hide behind as a wolf, and I'm not inspired by the Book Wombat case. Their explanation didn't really make me feel any better about them - though I don't know them at all so this could just be a playstyle thing. Didn't notice any significant interactions with Batcathat.


    Iím slightly less keen on ďkill the neutral claimsĒ than I was yesterday (my gut is telling me Jeen is telling the truth) but other than that my reads remain more or less the same as I didnít do much work on this overnight. So... hmm, where shall I start? ISOs? Yeah, I guess that makes most sense.
    I have returned.

    Werewolf games won: 8
    Werewolf games lost: 6
    Games as town: 8
    Games as neutral: 2
    Games as wolf: 4
    Games narrated: 1
    Deaths: 7

    I have no clue what Iím doing, but you still shouldn't trust me.

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  3. - Top - End - #423
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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Percy Jackson

    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    I'm inclined to believe Snowblaze, and also have reason (being a neutral) to try to keep neutrals around. I know Elenna isn't one of the Zeusling via my Night power, so I'll go with Valmark. They looked iffy D1 according to AV, but suspicions kinda died out with the focus on Batcathat and EmmyNecromancer. Perhaps he killed her in hopes that suspicion didn't rearise?
    This reminds me of when I was a wolf in another game and we killed a player out of fun, no plan behind it, and then people were all "That's such an obvious cheap attempt at making us suspicious of those the (dead) player suspected"

    Aaaaanyway... Ugh, sorry Snowblaze. Not having a power in an all power roles game just looks so weird.

    What was the time of your claim to Apogee1 compared to the claim of BatCatHat? You'd be considerably less suspicious if you claimed after BCH claimed (you'd have had to willingly fake-counterclaim with apparently no whatsoever plan behind it).
    Last edited by Valmark; 2021-06-06 at 01:56 PM.
    I won an argument with my GM -15/08/2017- (20:32 GMT +1)

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  4. - Top - End - #424
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    BlueWizardGirl

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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Percy Jackson

    Apogee1 is conftown, AV is dead, Batcathat is dead (are we killing in alphabetical order? I finally found why I shouldn't die!) so... Bladescape. I came out with a townlean earlier, but my confidence was fairly low.
    Spoiler: Bladescape ISO
    Show

    - I like his first post (#22) - early reads but not the kind that feel like "I'm under pressure to have early reads because I'm a wolf".

    - his next post is putting pressure on AV which I don't think is a route a wolf goes down, as there's been enough posting in recruitment about AV being dangerous that I don't think a wolf goes there.

    - self-voting complaint is NAI

    - 106 is blunt, in what I think is a good way.

    - yeah, 111 is getting into "too aggressively provoking the Big Scary AV to be a wolf" although AV did make a good point about "if Cao is a wolf one of AV/Valmark/Bat is a wolf" being not particularly-saying-much (looking at it now when two have flipped not-wolf and I townread the third, on the other hand...)

    118 - more arguing with AV, which I've already made my point about; the vote for Caoimhin coming after mine is less of a good look but in the bigger picture isn't a massive concern (unless he flips wolf, in which case this is what I'm going to point to in postgame to say "See, I called him out"!)

    121 is... probably NAI.

    126, questioning me, is good - he's not just thinking "oh, she's voting with me, I'll call her town".

    There's quite a while until the next Bladescape post (sleep is a good reason, though!) and just joining in with the tie plan is NAI, more or less.

    247 - NAI.

    249 is good pro-town advice, but I'm refusing to townread mechanics stuff.

    251 - NAI.

    280 - ...probably NAI.

    293 - I'm an idiot, okay?

    295 - fair point.

    297 - mistakes aren't necessarily wolfy (my flip will prove that). NAI, although my gut says slightly wolf.

    301 - NAI

    304 - NAI

    309 - NAI

    370 - NAI

    378 - NAI

    416 - yeah, makes sense *sigh*




    ...yeah, I'm okay calling him town for today, and I'll be dead after anyway. Also I have a lot more respect for AV now, that took a while.

    Apology accepted, Valmark, this is my own fault. Although wouldn't I be more likely to fake having a night action as a wolf?

    My Iris claim was a few hours before Batcathat's; my Ariadne claim was the next morning.
    I have returned.

    Werewolf games won: 8
    Werewolf games lost: 6
    Games as town: 8
    Games as neutral: 2
    Games as wolf: 4
    Games narrated: 1
    Deaths: 7

    I have no clue what Iím doing, but you still shouldn't trust me.

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  5. - Top - End - #425
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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Percy Jackson

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowblaze View Post
    Apology accepted, Valmark, this is my own fault. Although wouldn't I be more likely to fake having a night action as a wolf?

    My Iris claim was a few hours before Batcathat's; my Ariadne claim was the next morning.
    ...when you say that you have no power do you mean that you have no night action? Because those are different things.

    And only if you have a way to prove it, really. Imagine if you were the Ares who kills their killers, for example.

    Also you are the one who basically went "People I'm a wolf" in public and literally nobody voted you so I'd be very worried if I didn't vote you at this time (you hadn't explicitely said 'I'm a wolf' but rather made a good and strong argument that basically meant you were 100% a wolf. And it was true!)

    Uh... Hey @Apogee1, what was it that made you doubt BCH (who claimed in public) over Snowblaze by the way? I don't think that was said (Sorry if it was).
    I won an argument with my GM -15/08/2017- (20:32 GMT +1)

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  6. - Top - End - #426
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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Percy Jackson

    Quote Originally Posted by Valmark View Post
    ...when you say that you have no power do you mean that you have no night action? Because those are different things.

    And only if you have a way to prove it, really. Imagine if you were the Ares who kills their killers, for example.

    Also you are the one who basically went "People I'm a wolf" in public and literally nobody voted you so I'd be very worried if I didn't vote you at this time (you hadn't explicitely said 'I'm a wolf' but rather made a good and strong argument that basically meant you were 100% a wolf. And it was true!)

    Uh... Hey @Apogee1, what was it that made you doubt BCH (who claimed in public) over Snowblaze by the way? I don't think that was said (Sorry if it was).
    Yeah, I donít have a night action.

    And yeah, I did do that. Though ďI was roleblocked on a night no-one diedĒ is less incriminating than ďI typed the wrong role name in the exact way that let me switch my claim to no longer be countering a truthful claimantĒ.

    Iíve made my peace with having to die, anyway. Can I have irises at my funeral? The irony will entertain me.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Spoiler: Book Wombat ISO
    Show

    70 - NAI
    72 - NAI
    351 - NAI
    353 - NAI
    And... thatís it?


    Yeah, I canít really say anything other than ďdead nullĒ here.

    @Book Wombat: Can you give me your top non-confirmed townread and your top scumread excluding me (because agreeing that I look suspicious doesnít tell me much!)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Spoiler: CaoimhinTheĒUnspellableĒCape ISO
    Show

    27 - I got gut pings from this first time around; in hindsight it doesnít look quite as bad.

    43 is a bit non-commital.

    45 feels... pointless? It could be a wolf trying to join in with the speculation on Apogeeís claim.

    51 - I donít hate the switching to a random vote as much as I did, but on the other hand I now agree with Bladescape on not being a fan of the reasons for not joining the wagons. Not so much the fact they existed, but the way they were kind of waffly lots-of-words-not-much-conclusions stuff


    141 - the defence doesnít really sway me either way. I already talked about the Batcathat townread and the MornShine vote is... *shrug* I can barely remember anything MornShine has done this game, but ďonly having one game-related postĒ wasnít exactly unique at this stage. Why MornShine over any other inactive?

    206 - NAI, though Iím actually the secret love-Child of Iris and Ariadne. Also Iím a cultist, and a Russian spy.

    208 - NAI

    210 - mechanics which I will treat as NAI

    214 - more of the same

    228 - vaguely townish if I squint?

    230 - NAI

    244 - more mechanics

    282 - *shrug* doesnít really do much for me. I guess itís an answer to a concern, though.

    305 - NAI

    310 - NAI (although trying to organise the tie as a whole is... maybe mildly towny?)

    316 - yet more tie-organising

    356 - NAI

    403 - fine, I guess, if a bit lacking in analysis.



    Well, avatar confusion made my job harder on this one. I have concerns, and I could definitely see myself voting here. Taking a break for now, will carry on this afternoon.
    I have returned.

    Werewolf games won: 8
    Werewolf games lost: 6
    Games as town: 8
    Games as neutral: 2
    Games as wolf: 4
    Games narrated: 1
    Deaths: 7

    I have no clue what Iím doing, but you still shouldn't trust me.

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  7. - Top - End - #427
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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Percy Jackson

    Side note, btw, I like Cao a lot more today after doing a re-read last night.

    I'm sorry Cao for tunnelling on you Day 1.
    "Trust bladescape, Shadow of Doubt,"




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  8. - Top - End - #428
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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Percy Jackson

    Quote Originally Posted by Valmark View Post
    This reminds me of when I was a wolf in another game and we killed a player out of fun, no plan behind it, and then people were all "That's such an obvious cheap attempt at making us suspicious of those the (dead) player suspected"
    But this time, it seems like the kill was not by the wolves. Unless the child of Zeus is a wolf. Or the kill was made by the target switch zeusling and still got a fluff of electricity?
    So it is rather unlikely to be a plot of the wolves to discredit you.

    And there is another thing, but your could not know this.
    Quote Originally Posted by AV in QT
    I'm honestly kinda hoping I get killed tonight. I've put a lot of thoughts into the thread, but nobody trusts them because...well, I'm me. But after I die, people will have reason to trust the things I've said were my genuine attempts at being helpful.
    I'm practically honoring the last request of dead person.

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowblaze View Post
    Yeah, I donít have a night action.
    So instead, you have a passive power?
    Did you tell this to Apogee?
    Did you tell him what your power does?

    If you claimed your passive power to Apogee before it was pointed out that having no power at all would be strange, it might give you some credit. Nothing to guarantee your survival of course, but every bit can help?!

    What is your power?
    Or maybe even better, can you quote your complete Role description here?

  9. - Top - End - #429
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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Percy Jackson

    *sigh* I donít have a power. Or a night action. I canít do anything other than vote and talk. And, apparently, get myself killed by stupid mistakes.

    Would rather not post my full description as it feels like it kind of ruins the point of the game. Also because itís not likely to save me anyway.

    @Bladescape I was going to ask you to elaborate on the Caoimhin read but then I realised thereís a good chance itís something you donít want to share publicly. But if itís not, elaborate anyway?
    I have returned.

    Werewolf games won: 8
    Werewolf games lost: 6
    Games as town: 8
    Games as neutral: 2
    Games as wolf: 4
    Games narrated: 1
    Deaths: 7

    I have no clue what Iím doing, but you still shouldn't trust me.

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  10. - Top - End - #430
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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Percy Jackson

    My only hold-up at voting Snowblaze is that it feels like such a weird lie to hang on to at this point (if it's a lie).

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    But this time, it seems like the kill was not by the wolves. Unless the child of Zeus is a wolf. Or the kill was made by the target switch zeusling and still got a fluff of electricity?
    So it is rather unlikely to be a plot of the wolves to discredit you.

    And there is another thing, but your could not know this.

    I'm practically honoring the last request of dead person.
    I was just telling about something that happened, not drawing parallels- especially since that time nobody was trying to discredit anybody either- if anything that should be an example of wolves not trying to discredit anybody with their kill.

    I hope you're voting me because you think I'm suspicious, not because AV wanted to be trusted.
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  11. - Top - End - #431
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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Percy Jackson

    Spoiler: Elenna ISO
    Show

    23 I donít like, for reasons that have already been discussed.

    26 is a valid point but could also be a wolf trying to discredit early reads. Though two of the three names having flipped neutral makes it look less like soft-defending a partner.

    38 is *shrug* not really doing much for me.

    101... big wallpost, how do I analyse it? I donít dislike any of the points - I disagree with the Valmark read but thatís not wolfy. And I like taking the initiative to try and get a Xihirli wagon.

    145 is similar really, a big wallpost with a lot of thoughts that donít really give me much of a read.

    166: trying to kill Batcathat yesterday is about as controversial and informative as trying to kill me today.

    190: mildly towny if I squint

    192: NAI, although I lied earlier. Iím actually Harry Potter who is the son of Zeus. Oh yeah, and Iím the Seer. AV had a power to flip as a different role.

    212: mechanics, NAI

    283: I donít dislike this but I donít particularly like it either. A bit of a theme emerging here.

    285: NAI

    320: I disagree on me/Batcathat wolfbuddies being anything other than ďutterly crazyĒ. Though, considering this game so far...

    375: NAI

    377: also NAI

    390: mechanics, NAI

    392: NAI

    405: mechanics, also trying to kill me which doesnít tell us much

    409: NAI

    412: NAI. You will be very confused.

    415: NAI



    ...slight scum lean???

    Iím struggling a bit here - thereís a lot of content but none of it screams town. And there are a few points of concern.
    I have returned.

    Werewolf games won: 8
    Werewolf games lost: 6
    Games as town: 8
    Games as neutral: 2
    Games as wolf: 4
    Games narrated: 1
    Deaths: 7

    I have no clue what Iím doing, but you still shouldn't trust me.

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  12. - Top - End - #432
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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Percy Jackson

    @Val
    After a good night's sleep and rereading the thread, I have to admit there is not that much reason to suspect you than I had originally thought.
    AVs read vs you was strong, but I can't honestly say that I agree with her. I mean, I was not comfortable about telling Apogee everything on day 1 myself.

    Therefore, I will change my vote to Snow for the moment.

    If snow flips red, I think you could still be a valid target:

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowblaze View Post
    Can we not kill Valmark, please? I think he’s town. Okay, I’m not incredibly confident, but I’m confident enough not to want him to die day one. (I stated my reason earlier: his response to the claim reminds me of HP when he was town). And I was getting good at reading him before I left last year.
    Although I'm not sure if this would be too obvious as a try to save a wolf accomplice...

    Spoiler: My stance regarding Apogee
    Show


    Something else I would like to let the public know, I have had a conversation with Apogee since the beginning, but only now I have shared everything about my role and my night 1 action.
    My reason for not cooperating earlier was my belief that handing out info to a wolf would be devastating. But I thought the risk of Apogee actually being a wolf to be low.

    Last edited by Rogan; 2021-06-06 at 07:25 AM. Reason: Changed vote

  13. - Top - End - #433
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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Percy Jackson

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowblaze View Post
    Spoiler: Book Wombat ISO
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    70 - NAI
    72 - NAI
    351 - NAI
    353 - NAI
    And... thatís it?


    Yeah, I canít really say anything other than ďdead nullĒ here.

    @Book Wombat: Can you give me your top non-confirmed townread and your top scumread excluding me (because agreeing that I look suspicious doesnít tell me much!)
    I wonder if anyone saw ithis.
    Uhh, I don't have any.
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  14. - Top - End - #434
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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Percy Jackson

    EmmyNecromancer is confirmed neutral, so... flat_footed.

    Spoiler: flat_footed ISO
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    5 - NAI
    323 - NAI
    328 - NAI
    371 - NAI



    Oh, look, another dead null. Same question as to Book Wombat: top non-confirmed townread, top non-me scumread, please.
    I have returned.

    Werewolf games won: 8
    Werewolf games lost: 6
    Games as town: 8
    Games as neutral: 2
    Games as wolf: 4
    Games narrated: 1
    Deaths: 7

    I have no clue what Iím doing, but you still shouldn't trust me.

    Extended Signature

  15. - Top - End - #435
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Percy Jackson

    Quote Originally Posted by gac3 View Post
    End of Night 1

    ...

    Day 1 Begins. You have 48 ish hours. Since it will be Sunday evening, I may not be quite as exact as I was the past two times but if I don't end on time, I'll make sure I'm at least late so people have their full chance.
    Oh, looks like we have a time manipulation power in the game!

    Quote Originally Posted by totadileplayz View Post
    Snowblaze
    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    Valmark..
    Quote Originally Posted by CaoimhinTheCape View Post
    Snowblaze
    Quote Originally Posted by Elenna View Post
    Snowblaze
    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    Snowblaze
    Quote Originally Posted by bladescape View Post
    Snowblaze
    Quote Originally Posted by Murska View Post
    Valmark
    Quote Originally Posted by Valmark View Post
    Snowblaze
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    Snow
    These seem to be the current votes.
    A very bad situation for Snowblaze and a few votes for Valmark. (7/2)

    I'm looking forward to hear from Apogee and or Libro.

  16. - Top - End - #436
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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Percy Jackson

    Quote Originally Posted by Book Wombat View Post
    Uhh, I don't have any.
    Yup, but only because I quoted it
    Could you try and get some reads, then? Find a post that looks suspicious and tell people why.

    @Rogan I probably wouldnít do that as a wolf with Valmark especially in a game with so many ways to get mechanically caught. Though I may not be the best source on that!
    I have returned.

    Werewolf games won: 8
    Werewolf games lost: 6
    Games as town: 8
    Games as neutral: 2
    Games as wolf: 4
    Games narrated: 1
    Deaths: 7

    I have no clue what Iím doing, but you still shouldn't trust me.

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  17. - Top - End - #437
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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Percy Jackson

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowblaze View Post
    *sigh* I donít have a power. Or a night action. I canít do anything other than vote and talk. And, apparently, get myself killed by stupid mistakes.

    Would rather not post my full description as it feels like it kind of ruins the point of the game. Also because itís not likely to save me anyway.

    @Bladescape I was going to ask you to elaborate on the Caoimhin read but then I realised thereís a good chance itís something you donít want to share publicly. But if itís not, elaborate anyway?
    Nah it's just reads in thread.

    The initial read on him was of a wolf hiding a defense of a wolf in a argument against all the wagons on D1. This implies one of BHC/AV/Valmark is wolf with him. BHC was neutral, AV was the one I actually thought was linked to Cao due to AV's later defense of Cao as null.

    Now that AV's flipped town, the only possible way my original theory holds up is Valmark, and to be honest I don't see Valmark as a wolf right now.

    Side note:
    It doesn't matter if Snow is telling the truth or lying.

    We should lynch her anyway.
    "Trust bladescape, Shadow of Doubt,"




    My almighty and all knowing extended Signature lies HERE! Now includes awesome quotes!

  18. - Top - End - #438
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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Percy Jackson

    Quote Originally Posted by bladescape View Post
    Nah it's just reads in thread.

    Side note:
    It doesn't matter if Snow is telling the truth or lying.

    We should lynch her anyway.
    Is this because you want to kill neutral!me because I could betray town, or because if I donít die today every day from now will become ďso, shall we kill Snowblaze todayĒ and discussion will never get anywhere?

    Also why am I providing arguments for my own death?

    (Because youíre probably right, sadly. Unless a Hades kid wants to claim AV scried me as neutral from beyond the grave? No? Worth hoping.)
    I have returned.

    Werewolf games won: 8
    Werewolf games lost: 6
    Games as town: 8
    Games as neutral: 2
    Games as wolf: 4
    Games narrated: 1
    Deaths: 7

    I have no clue what Iím doing, but you still shouldn't trust me.

    Extended Signature

  19. - Top - End - #439
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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Percy Jackson

    I'd throw a vote on Snowblaze but it doesn't seem necessary.
    Valmark for the sake of a counter-wagon I guess? I'll move it if something crazy happens and someone else is on the chopping block.
    Last edited by Xihirli; 2021-06-06 at 09:52 AM.
    Spoiler: Quotes
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zar Peter View Post
    Supagoof took the most blows and incidentally took exactly the same damage Xihirli inflicted.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silent_Interim View Post
    Xihirli: Being a better target since 2015.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elenna View Post
    Xihirli, bastion of murder and betrayal.
    Quote Originally Posted by BasketOfPuppies View Post
    Wow I missed a lot today. So, kill Xihirli?
    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    Nobody else is gonna be right behind me, right now. Only Xihirli.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    If Xi and I agree some more, I will start to doubt my own alignment!
    Quote Originally Posted by flat_footed View Post
    I still prefer to see you as the dagger hanging over us all, Xi.

  20. - Top - End - #440
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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Percy Jackson

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowblaze View Post
    Is this because you want to kill neutral!me because I could betray town, or because if I donít die today every day from now will become ďso, shall we kill Snowblaze todayĒ and discussion will never get anywhere?

    Also why am I providing arguments for my own death?

    (Because youíre probably right, sadly. Unless a Hades kid wants to claim AV scried me as neutral from beyond the grave? No? Worth hoping.)
    Hey look, it's both reasons you need to die!
    "Trust bladescape, Shadow of Doubt,"




    My almighty and all knowing extended Signature lies HERE! Now includes awesome quotes!

  21. - Top - End - #441
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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Percy Jackson

    Oh well. Onwards. For - actually, why am I doing these again?

    Spoiler: JeenLeen ISO
    Show

    17 is mildly towny, I guess. (Using towny to mean ďthe opposite of wolfyĒ here. I know Iím referring to a claimed neutral who canít reasonably be town.)

    42 - analysis of the Apogee claim... yeah, letís go with ďmechanics, NAIĒ

    55 is waffly, but itís an understandable topic to be confused on.

    57 is... my gut says slightly wolfy but my brain says NAI

    62 - NAI

    71 - also NAI. Iím a survivor, by the way. Iíve just been possessed by an evil spirit forcing me to play against my win condition - ignore that. Iím a Child of Iris. I mean Ariadne.

    136 - neutral claim. Unprompted but I could see Jeen making that move as a wolf.

    138 - not so much a fan of ďI just claimed neutral, now Iíll pressure the other neutral claimantĒ

    142 - NAI

    153 - mechanics, NAI

    169 - ...probably NAI

    187 - seems a believable thought process

    189 - continuation of the process in 187

    195 - mechanics, NAI

    203 - wait, what? I must have missed that the first time. Why would they vote for Libro before Batcathat even flipped? Maybe itís just a Weird Post, but it feels wolfy.

    209 - mechanics

    225 - NAI

    232 - NAI

    253 - NAI

    289 - a lot of words to say something fairly obvious and about to become irrelevant

    291 - disagree on Emmy sticking around but thatís mechanical stuff.

    294 - NAI

    312 - NAI

    338 - NAI

    344... yup, you guessed it.

    347 can you tell Iím getting bored of typing those three letters?

    363, 365, 367, 381 yes, you can

    385 feels too elaborate and risky for a wolf to make up.

    400 *shrug* I guess I appreciate not trying to kill me?

    402, 406 back to good old NAI

    408 I like trying to work out the Xihirli thing, which I probably should pay more attention to.

    410, 420 NAI.



    More avatar confusion. Delightful. I think my problem here is that JeenLeen is a very mechanically-oriented player, so my default ďtreat mechanics as nullĒ is meaning Iím calling half their posts null. Iím leaning towards believing their claim, though. So maybe my ďwolf in the neutral claimsĒ was wrong?
    I have returned.

    Werewolf games won: 8
    Werewolf games lost: 6
    Games as town: 8
    Games as neutral: 2
    Games as wolf: 4
    Games narrated: 1
    Deaths: 7

    I have no clue what Iím doing, but you still shouldn't trust me.

    Extended Signature

  22. - Top - End - #442
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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Percy Jackson

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowblaze View Post
    Oh well. Onwards. For - actually, why am I doing these again?

    Spoiler: JeenLeen ISO
    Show

    17 is mildly towny, I guess. (Using towny to mean ďthe opposite of wolfyĒ here. I know Iím referring to a claimed neutral who canít reasonably be town.)

    42 - analysis of the Apogee claim... yeah, letís go with ďmechanics, NAIĒ

    55 is waffly, but itís an understandable topic to be confused on.

    57 is... my gut says slightly wolfy but my brain says NAI

    62 - NAI

    71 - also NAI. Iím a survivor, by the way. Iíve just been possessed by an evil spirit forcing me to play against my win condition - ignore that. Iím a Child of Iris. I mean Ariadne.

    136 - neutral claim. Unprompted but I could see Jeen making that move as a wolf.

    138 - not so much a fan of ďI just claimed neutral, now Iíll pressure the other neutral claimantĒ

    142 - NAI

    153 - mechanics, NAI

    169 - ...probably NAI

    187 - seems a believable thought process

    189 - continuation of the process in 187

    195 - mechanics, NAI

    203 - wait, what? I must have missed that the first time. Why would they vote for Libro before Batcathat even flipped? Maybe itís just a Weird Post, but it feels wolfy.

    209 - mechanics

    225 - NAI

    232 - NAI

    253 - NAI

    289 - a lot of words to say something fairly obvious and about to become irrelevant

    291 - disagree on Emmy sticking around but thatís mechanical stuff.

    294 - NAI

    312 - NAI

    338 - NAI

    344... yup, you guessed it.

    347 can you tell Iím getting bored of typing those three letters?

    363, 365, 367, 381 yes, you can

    385 feels too elaborate and risky for a wolf to make up.

    400 *shrug* I guess I appreciate not trying to kill me?

    402, 406 back to good old NAI

    408 I like trying to work out the Xihirli thing, which I probably should pay more attention to.

    410, 420 NAI.



    More avatar confusion. Delightful. I think my problem here is that JeenLeen is a very mechanically-oriented player, so my default ďtreat mechanics as nullĒ is meaning Iím calling half their posts null. Iím leaning towards believing their claim, though. So maybe my ďwolf in the neutral claimsĒ was wrong?
    If you are truthful about being a neutral wanting to help town, it enlightens us on your reads and views of other people, and can help shed some light on some sus behavior other people would have missed. It's also a mildly teeny thing you can do which can cause some doubt in people who would have originally voted for you. At least that's my understanding of why your doing this.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Though I should say you should actually quote all of the posts instead of just refer to the number, your isos are suffering because it's a struggle to find the posts your referring to.

  23. - Top - End - #443
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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Percy Jackson

    Quote Originally Posted by totadileplayz View Post
    If you are truthful about being a neutral wanting to help town, it enlightens us on your reads and views of other people, and can help shed some light on some sus behavior other people would have missed. It's also a mildly teeny thing you can do which can cause some doubt in people who would have originally voted for you. At least that's my understanding of why your doing this.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Though I should say you should actually quote all of the posts instead of just refer to the number, your isos are suffering because it's a struggle to find the posts your referring to.
    The question was meant to be rhetorical. But thatís probably an accurate answer, yeah.

    And trust me, itís struggling nowhere near as much as it would struggle via my repeated messing up of quotes. I donít trust myself to do them properly. Sorry, I guess.
    I have returned.

    Werewolf games won: 8
    Werewolf games lost: 6
    Games as town: 8
    Games as neutral: 2
    Games as wolf: 4
    Games narrated: 1
    Deaths: 7

    I have no clue what Iím doing, but you still shouldn't trust me.

    Extended Signature

  24. - Top - End - #444
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    annoyed Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Percy Jackson

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowblaze View Post
    The question was meant to be rhetorical. But thatís probably an accurate answer, yeah.

    And trust me, itís struggling nowhere near as much as it would struggle via my repeated messing up of quotes. I donít trust myself to do them properly. Sorry, I guess.
    Well, then I suppose you won't mind me fixing your isos myself?

    - - - Updated - - -

    I need to test how this works.


    Quote Originally Posted by totadileplayz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowblaze View Post
    The question was meant to be rhetorical. But thatís probably an accurate answer, yeah.

    And trust me, itís struggling nowhere near as much as it would struggle via my repeated messing up of quotes. I donít trust myself to do them properly. Sorry, I guess.
    Well, then I suppose you won't mind me fixing your isos myself?

  25. - Top - End - #445
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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Percy Jackson

    No, I donít mind. Thank you!
    I have returned.

    Werewolf games won: 8
    Werewolf games lost: 6
    Games as town: 8
    Games as neutral: 2
    Games as wolf: 4
    Games narrated: 1
    Deaths: 7

    I have no clue what Iím doing, but you still shouldn't trust me.

    Extended Signature

  26. - Top - End - #446
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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Percy Jackson

    It's time I come honest to the Town. I already told this to Apogee, Snowblaze, and another person earlier this Day, but I'm actually the Champion of Hera.

    I fakeclaimed Champion of Zeus because I didn't want the vigilante to kill me N1. Hoping that N2 onward there's a better target, e.g., someone likely a wolf. I was hoping the misinfo, or giving some hooks, might help me catch a wolf (or Zeusling), but it didn't work. At this point, I think the misinfo about the number of neutrals will hurt the town instead of being indifferent, so coming clean.

    I still think my best bet is to ally with the Town. My hope is that we find the NKer and kill them (as a wolf Zeusling), and that the wolves randomly kill the other Zeusling before the game ends.
    So Town Zeusling, I do want you dead, but I think it probably better you spend time killing others, because I don't really have any means to help kill you beyond my vote.

    Here's my true, full Role.
    You are a champion of Hera.

    Hera has chosen to elevate you with the power of a demigod. Enough to get you into camp halfblood. Zeus has been cheating again.

    Hera's sight: Each night choose one player and learn if they are a child of Zeus. If you target a child of Zeus, you will be informed and they will not be able to act that night.

    You are neutral. Win condition: Survive until all children of Zeus are dead.
    Also, I find it really odd that Snowblaze is claiming no power. Did I read that right? Especially since her Role is kinda the inverse of mine, so I'd think it'd have a scry or something at least.
    Also also, I doubt there's more than 4 neutrals. So if anyone else beyond me and Snowblaze claims neutral, probably a lying wolf.

    I still lean towards believing Snowblaze, and think it more likely Valmark or Xi are wolves than her.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I forgot something.

    gac3 said, at some point, that some Roles might have a bit of extra info other than what was supplied in the opening post/recruitment. (Right?)
    Apogee told me, when I claimed Champion of Zeus, that someone told him a Champion of Hera existed.

    My guess is that the wolf Zeusling is the one with a NK power, and to balance how that is effectively no power for a wolf, they were told that someone (Champion of Hera) is hunting them.
    Though Apogee knows best who his source is.

    On RNG of the Roles

    It seems that gac3 said literally any named Role (even vig-Zeus or one of the Children of Demeter) can be a wolf, based on the RNG process he used. It's weighted, so it's unlikely, but it's still possible (just not probable.)

    I'm not saying we should suspect Apogee, nor do I exactly care given my neutrality, but the Town should keep that in mind. Or Apogee should doubt this sibling.
    Though I reckon the probability that both the vig-Zeus and a Demeter-kid both RNGed as wolf is exceptionally low... so if one of them flips wolf, the other is probably town just due to probability. Not proven, but literally probably Town just via the likelihood of things.
    Finally using my Stats degree in a game. Yay.

    Apogee's silence thus far is making me more suspect of him. BUT it is the weekend, and I know I'm usually more quiet during the weekend than not, so I'm willing to give benefit of the doubt to him. E.g, that he's silent due to real life, not because he's a wolf and realizes that something he needs to say will look bad for him or a scumbuddy.

  27. - Top - End - #447
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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Percy Jackson

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowblaze View Post
    Apogee1 is conftown, AV is dead, Batcathat is dead (are we killing in alphabetical order? I finally found why I shouldn't die!) so... Bladescape. I came out with a townlean earlier, but my confidence was fairly low.
    Spoiler: Bladescape ISO
    Show

    - I like his first post
    Quote Originally Posted by bladescape View Post
    You. I like you.

    Assuming Murska hasn't evolved too much since I last played, I'm not too bothered by his vote yet. He tends to push pressure on D1 to try and get more meaningful discussions than the random-ness that is traditional for Day 1. (This does not tell us anything of his side tbh)

    My (Very weak) wolfdar so far:
    Shal06
    EmmyNecromancer
    batcathat

    Reasons:
    Shal06 pushing where the flow goes, weak read but for newer players it's a common attempt to blend in with crowds.

    EmmyNecromancer went from no vote (no information provided) to wagon vote. Alternate wagon to main wagon.

    Batcathat has been wishy-washy from aggressive bandwagon to switching to someone random when the bandwagoning got called out.

    EDIT:
    Note that after this post I'm crashing asleep, I'll next be around in 8ish hours after a long rest
    - early reads but not the kind that feel like "I'm under pressure to have early reads because I'm a wolf".

    -
    Quote Originally Posted by bladescape View Post
    So first thing's first, we aren't going to get much more from batcathat. I'm gonna rescind my vote on them because the only point voting them now is to lynch them. (Not saying they're not a wolf, but anyway.)

    But what I do want to do is put some pressure on AvatarVecna who has shown up and posted big long walls of so far obvious information. Everything she's put up has felt like a contribution without contribution.

    Can you put up any suspicions you have? (This is not meant as a serious lynch target yet, I just want more concrete present contribution from them.)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also can someone verify Xih's past actions because that lynch pleading is bloody weirding me out
    his next post is putting pressure on AV which I don't think is a route a wolf goes down, as there's been enough posting in recruitment about AV being dangerous that I don't think a wolf goes there.

    Quote Originally Posted by bladescape View Post
    Who the bloody hell popularised self-voting while I was out.
    - self-voting complaint is NAI

    Quote Originally Posted by bladescape View Post
    It's called content. People interact with stuff and therefore my name pops up a lot. Or maybe I'm just that handsome.

    2nd:
    I don't like Cao. And I don't like AV defending or nullifying the potential points against him.

    Feel free to read through AV's ISO above to form your own opinions on it, but if you're going to call BookWombat a wolflean on two posts and negligible content it seems a little incongruous to then say a null on Cao.

    (The exception is if everyone agrees this is some meta about Cao I don't know, but right now we call that S U S)
    - 106 is blunt, in what I think is a good way.

    Quote Originally Posted by bladescape View Post
    Let me elaborate for you.

    1. Number of words don't mean ****. Until it's substantial enough of content vs no content. Pre-400 word counts are, at best, misleading.

    2. I'll pay you that he pointed out one thing. I did kinda breeze over that one, so my bad.

    3. Pending his response, to be honest I dislike that play a lot from him in the first place.

    4. Thank you for the response, I was poking the bear to see how it reacted so that was a nice meaty response.


    Finally:
    I take some minor offense that you think my contribution quality is the same as Cao's. He has so far waffled on, made irrelevant votes, (Both times voting for people who were not near lynch contender.) made no strong arguments for anyone bar one minor note which could've been an easy throwaway, and provided null analysis. Particularly:


    There's a decent chance that if Cao is wolf then one of AV/Valmark/Batcat is also wolf.


    (That being said, direct correlation to BookWombat was a little inaccurate of a statement on reflection. I was just incensed by seeing "null" on someone I thought obvious wolf-telling.)
    - yeah, 111 is getting into "too aggressively provoking the Big Scary AV to be a wolf" although AV did make a good point about "if Cao is a wolf one of AV/Valmark/Bat is a wolf" being not particularly-saying-much (looking at it now when two have flipped not-wolf and I townread the third, on the other hand...)

    Quote Originally Posted by bladescape View Post
    See, you vacillate between looking good at analysis and then you pull this. Sarcasm doesn't become you.

    That being said, after reading your ISOs over, I'm going to move vote off you, I don't need anything more.

    TO explain the thing that was sarcasmed:
    No one else has tried discrediting every wagon so far. Generally a "I don't like all the wagons" is what a lot of town will do, or they'll acknowledge the ones they don't mind.

    To go to the effort of describing the reasons he doesn't like all the wagons? Leans wolf for me. Wolves in the absence of scrutiny are more likely to attempt to justify something they don't need to justify.

    That being said, all that everyone has said is Day 1 reads. None of them are going to have the strength of a lategame ISO finding trends or interesting information uncovered in hindsight.

    - - - Updated - - -

    CaoimhinTheCape

    Please tell us your reads and thoughts on the current situation.
    118 - more arguing with AV, which I've already made my point about; the vote for Caoimhin coming after mine is less of a good look but in the bigger picture isn't a massive concern (unless he flips wolf, in which case this is what I'm going to point to in postgame to say "See, I called him out"!)

    Quote Originally Posted by bladescape View Post
    I just want to say I reserve the right to tunnel on you if Cao flips wolf.
    121 is... probably NAI.

    Quote Originally Posted by bladescape View Post
    While I appreciate the vote you have on my major sus, I have to ask:

    Why are you voting Cao if you are the "same mostly as AV"? Cao has no particular suspicion according to AV, and if you haven't noted that as a particular difference it seems weird you are voting them?
    126, questioning me, is good - he's not just thinking "oh, she's voting with me, I'll call her town".

    Quote Originally Posted by bladescape View Post
    I'm actually down for this. EmmyNecromancer

    I go to sleep for eight hours and all the fun stuff happens.
    There's quite a while until the next Bladescape post (sleep is a good reason, though!) and just joining in with the tie plan is NAI, more or less.

    Quote Originally Posted by bladescape View Post
    The curse of non-American timezones
    247 - NAI.

    Quote Originally Posted by bladescape View Post
    Please don't.

    If the wolves have ANY of the swapper powers, they get an extra NK from that.

    Secondly, even if they don't have anything tha would protect Batcat, there's the chance they've got something like a watcher, and then they know who the Vig is. Too many dangers to publicly say who the Vig will snipe.

    Also if you ever have a solid target for the Vig, please don't mention it in public again. Keep that to QTs with people relevant to the action, okay?
    249 is good pro-town advice, but I'm refusing to townread mechanics stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by bladescape View Post
    Welp. I guess I'll just sit by my own sad lonesome Australian self.
    251 - NAI.

    Quote Originally Posted by bladescape View Post
    Can you hand me that shovel you got?

    Six feet is all you need mate.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I just want to point out that two of these are now probably neutral and Wolf, with Shal still up in the air.

    Seems rust has only made my "This isn't town" senses stronger.
    280 - ...probably NAI.

    Quote Originally Posted by bladescape View Post
    How do you... mess up the name... of your role?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also tiebreaker requires 1 more on BHC due to double-vote power I believe?
    293 - I'm an idiot, okay?

    Quote Originally Posted by bladescape View Post
    That was meant more of a "Smells like bull****" sense than "Explain this to me" sense.
    295 - fair point.

    Quote Originally Posted by bladescape View Post
    No that's the correct one that BHC claimed. They've implied they lied about their power though.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Now that Rogan's pointed that out, I want to paint a light red sus on Zelph if Cat flips red.
    297 - mistakes aren't necessarily wolfy (my flip will prove that). NAI, although my gut says slightly wolf.

    Quote Originally Posted by bladescape View Post


    That was the original plan, my friend. I've no clue where the claimant double voter is right now, only Apogee can say that for sure.
    301 - NAI

    Quote Originally Posted by bladescape View Post
    See below:
    304 - NAI

    Quote Originally Posted by bladescape View Post
    Auto-forum addition for double posts. Merges them and adds the updated line.

    That being said, it's possible some people could copy/paste it? Idk why

    - - - Updated - - -

    Alright I'm off to bed. Let's not have too many people claim while I'm gone this time, alright?
    309 - NAI

    Quote Originally Posted by bladescape View Post
    I think that has to count as one of the easiest neutral wins I've had the honour of spectating.
    370 - NAI

    Quote Originally Posted by bladescape View Post
    Ninjas are everywhere.
    378 - NAI

    Quote Originally Posted by bladescape View Post
    Snowblaze

    As advocated. Further analysis is going directly to Apogee rn.
    416 - yeah, makes sense *sigh*




    ...yeah, I'm okay calling him town for today, and I'll be dead after anyway. Also I have a lot more respect for AV now, that took a while.

    Apology accepted, Valmark, this is my own fault. Although wouldn't I be more likely to fake having a night action as a wolf?

    My Iris claim was a few hours before Batcathat's; my Ariadne claim was the next morning.
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowblaze View Post
    Yeah, I donít have a night action.

    And yeah, I did do that. Though ďI was roleblocked on a night no-one diedĒ is less incriminating than ďI typed the wrong role name in the exact way that let me switch my claim to no longer be countering a truthful claimantĒ.

    Iíve made my peace with having to die, anyway. Can I have irises at my funeral? The irony will entertain me.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Spoiler: Book Wombat ISO
    Show

    Quote Originally Posted by Book Wombat View Post
    Whoops, almost missed the start since I thought it was on the 2nd, thanks for the network PM Redacted.
    Random vote goes to rogue_alchemist, going to read the thread a bit more thoroughly soon (probably).
    70 - NAI
    Quote Originally Posted by Book Wombat View Post
    Its power reminds me of Zorc from the last game.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I skimmed through a bit, too lazy to look at it properly since I'm going to bed soon.
    72 - NAI
    Quote Originally Posted by Book Wombat View Post
    Damn, a lot happened while I was asleep and at school.
    So... should I change my vote or is everything fine?
    351 - NAI
    Quote Originally Posted by Book Wombat View Post
    Now the only thing left to do is wait (to mess everything up, muahahaha)...

    Now off to the land of dreams.
    353 - NAI
    And... thatís it?


    Yeah, I canít really say anything other than ďdead nullĒ here.

    @Book Wombat: Can you give me your top non-confirmed townread and your top scumread excluding me (because agreeing that I look suspicious doesnít tell me much!)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Spoiler: CaoimhinTheĒUnspellableĒCape ISO
    Show

    Quote Originally Posted by CaoimhinTheCape View Post
    Actually, I'm pretty sure Apogee1 is the first person who hasn't posted yet, alphabetically.




    Vote Count:

    AvatarVecna (3): Snowblaze, Murska, Shal06
    Apogee1 (2): Valmark, CaoimhinTheCape
    Rogue_Alchemist (1): Flat_Footed
    Valmark (3): AvatarVecna, Xihirli, Elenna
    Elenna (1): Rogue_Alchemist
    Batcathat (3): Jeenleen, Bladescape, EmmyNecromancer
    Totadileplayz (1): Batcathat
    Bladescape (1): Libro

    Not Voting (8): Apogee1, BookWombat, Mornshine, Rogan, Totadileplayz, Zelphas
    27 - I got gut pings from this first time around; in hindsight it doesnít look quite as bad.
    Quote Originally Posted by CaoimhinTheCape View Post
    So, my post was to point out that Libro voted "the earliest person alphabetically" while conveniently skipping Apogee. Could have been a wolf conveniently avoiding a vote for his wolf buddy.

    Given Apogee's claim, I no longer suspect that's the case. Gonna remove my vote for now and think about where it's gonna go.
    43 is a bit non-commital.
    Quote Originally Posted by CaoimhinTheCape View Post
    There is the chance that the wolves know what roles are in the game and could have seen that Masons are not in the game. But as people have mentioned, that seems unlikely.
    45 feels... pointless? It could be a wolf trying to join in with the speculation on Apogeeís claim.
    Quote Originally Posted by CaoimhinTheCape View Post
    Gonna do a cheap vote against Totadileplayz for now. If we have such a large game I'm more OK spending Day 1 with a vote on someone who hasn't posted yet, so we don't run into too many afk players going forward. I'm also not a huge fan of any of the wagons:


    The AvatarVecna wagon did build very quickly so there's a little worry that it was wolves jumping on a good wagon for them.

    Valmark's counterwagon seems to be for the sake of having someone else to vote. I didn't get any wolf vibes from his post so of the three that's the lest likely for me to get a vote.

    I haven't seen Batcat play as wolf yet so I don't know what is a wolf read and what is regular posting. Lampshading anything that might look bad feels wolf like to me but that's been pretty standard. On the other hand, Batcat has been engaging people in conversations and I like that.


    Vote Count:

    AvatarVecna (3): Snowblaze, Murska, Shal06
    Rogue_Alchemist (1): Flat_Footed
    Valmark (3): AvatarVecna, Xihirli, Elenna
    Elenna (1): Rogue_Alchemist
    Batcathat (4): Jeenleen, Bladescape, EmmyNecromancer, Zelphas
    Totadileplayz (2): Batcathat, CaoimhinTheCape
    Bladescape (1): Libro

    Not Voting (2): Apogee1, Valmark
    No Posts (4):BookWombat, Mornshine, Rogan, Totadileplayz
    51 - I donít hate the switching to a random vote as much as I did, but on the other hand I now agree with Bladescape on not being a fan of the reasons for not joining the wagons. Not so much the fact they existed, but the way they were kind of waffly lots-of-words-not-much-conclusions stuff

    Quote Originally Posted by CaoimhinTheCape View Post
    At the time Apogee claimed, he basically had 3 votes against him (Emmy had just unvoted) and all of the biggest wagons at the time were at 3. Maybe a little early but claiming to get a network set up (especially when we hopefully have a doc) makes sense to me.



    At the time I posted my explanation (the post you quoted) I was seeing a possible wolf connection from Libro's vote. I explained myself in the post and assumed there was no connection there. Until you asked this question, I wasn't thinking of any other possibilities.



    I'll agree that number of words really shouldn't amount to anything. This line boosts me by almost 20 for nothing important.

    I've address what you're referring to above but tl;dr at the time I was not thinking about any additional repercussions of what I said. Just that at first it looked like there was a wolf connection between the two but in my explanation didn't think there was any connection.

    I'm confused at how my explanations are suspicious? I haven't made impactful votes, that's true. But it's Day 1 and I didn't feel strongly suspicious about any of the wagons. I wanted to say why I wasn't voting any of them - that I didn't really see evidence against them.



    That's going to be a difference of opinion then. I would see it more wolfish if someone just said "I don't like these" and left it at that.




    The current situation

    BatCatHat's claim makes sense to me. He's been the leading wagon. I'm taking it as truth, since a wolf claiming to draw out a different role would have picked something else. But the problem is that role works well for either side, since I can see Wolves having a Seer power that narrows down the roles somewhat. I still think BatCat reads more town than wolf so I won't put my vote there. If nothing else this can verify Apogee overnight or verify the Neutral(s).

    Emmy's Neutral claim didn't feel particularly necessary but I also don't know that it is wolfish. Gonna leave that as a Null (or, well, Neutral) read. Waiting to see what Emmy's win condition is.

    I don't like the Xi wagon. The main drive behind it is that Xi's grammar is weird? Especially when there are other wagons that seem more relevant? Don't like it. I'll vote MornShine. Their one post only talks about the Xi wagon, nothing else going on in the game.

    AvatarVecna's ISO on Valmark made some good points, but the thing is I would assume that Wolves would just let the Apogee thing go. There's obviously not going to be a wagon on Apogee so mentioning suspicion will only draw negative attention.

    Aside from that, the people I will not vote today: Apogee, BatCatHat, AvatarVecna, Bladescape, Xihirli.
    People I have a town lean on: Elenna, Zelphas
    Null read, other people I'd vote first: Snowblaze, Totadileplayz, Valmark
    People I'm comfortable voting: BookWombat, Flat_Footed, Libro, Mornshine, Rogue_Alchemist, Murska
    Players who haven't played recently, so I won't vote them D1: Rogan, Shal06
    Claimed Neutrals, on Day 1?: EmmyNecromancer, JeenLeen






    On the topic of vote counts, I do them because I can't keep track of all the votes in my head and if I'm going to bother putting together a votecount for myself I might as well share with the class. As town it makes sure people are aware of who is in the lead/close to the most votes. As wolf, I am not acting any different from when I'm town. Gonna keep doing them unless people really want me to stop. It shouldn't be an indicator either way for me, but that's up to y'all to decide.




    Vote Count:

    AvatarVecna (2): Shal06, AvatarVecna
    Rogue_Alchemist (2): Flat_Footed, BookWombat
    Valmark (3): Xihirli, Elenna, Zelphas
    Batcathat (3): EmmyNecromancer, Murska, Apogee1
    Totadileplayz (1): Batcathat
    BookWombat (2): Libro, Totadileplayz
    Xirili (3): Rogue_Alchemist, Rogan, Mornshine
    Mornshine (2): Valmark, CaoimhinTheCape
    CaoimhinTheCape (2): Snowblaze, Bladescape
    EmmyNecromancer (1): Jeenleen
    141 - the defence doesnít really sway me either way. I already talked about the Batcathat townread and the MornShine vote is... *shrug* I can barely remember anything MornShine has done this game, but ďonly having one game-related postĒ wasnít exactly unique at this stage. Why MornShine over any other inactive?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaoimhinTheCape View Post
    After all this, I am no longer backing BatCatHat.

    If we want to use this Day for something more, we can set up a tie between Emmy and BatCat. Emmy can hopefully prove her power (though I think we're still waiting on some info from her) and BatCat will get lynched anyway. Or Emmy is lying about her power and we get a wolf that way.




    Vote Count:

    Rogue_Alchemist (2): Flat_Footed, BookWombat
    Valmark (1): Zelphas
    Batcathat (9): EmmyNecromancer, Murska, Apogee1, AvatarVecna, Valmark, Elenna, Rogue_Alchemist, Totadileplayz, Xihirli, CaoimhinTheCape
    Totadileplayz (1): Batcathat
    BookWombat (2): Libro,
    Xirili (2): Rogan, Mornshine
    CaoimhinTheCape (2): Snowblaze, Bladescape
    EmmyNecromancer (2): Jeenleen, Shal06
    206 - NAI, though Iím actually the secret love-Child of Iris and Ariadne. Also Iím a cultist, and a Russian spy.
    Quote Originally Posted by CaoimhinTheCape View Post
    Ninja'd a lot, but I still think we can test Emmy if Apogee (the most trusted townie right now) organizes the vote.




    Vote Count:

    Rogue_Alchemist (2): Flat_Footed, BookWombat
    Valmark (1): Zelphas
    Batcathat (9): EmmyNecromancer, Murska, Apogee1, AvatarVecna, Valmark, Elenna, Rogue_Alchemist, Totadileplayz, Xihirli, CaoimhinTheCape
    Totadileplayz (1): Batcathat
    BookWombat (1): Libro
    Xirili (2): Rogan, Mornshine
    CaoimhinTheCape (2): Snowblaze, Bladescape
    EmmyNecromancer (1): Shal06
    Libro (1): Jeenleen
    208 - NAI
    Quote Originally Posted by CaoimhinTheCape View Post
    That is not at all what I'm suggesting.

    11 of us vote BatCat
    10 of us vote Emmy

    Apogee makes sure that the person who claims being doublevoter is on Emmy.

    If Emmy has the ability as her Neutral to decide ties, she will pick for BatCat to die.
    Everyone knows that the doublevoter was on Emmy.

    If Emmy is lying, then it goes to a coinflip between two claimed Neutrals including an Emmy who lied.

    If the doublevoter lies and is voting Emmy anyway, same scenario as above. If doublevoter lies and is voting BatCat then BatCat dies.

    I don't see how there's a downside?
    210 - mechanics which I will treat as NAI
    Quote Originally Posted by CaoimhinTheCape View Post
    We don't have to do the testing plan, but there is a way to do it where we don't risk any of the town and a truthful Emmy can keep herself safe.

    Activity/everyone lining up their votes right could be an issue, but at the moment we have a comfortable amount of votes on BatCat. If we don't get a plan together, at least we'll still have the lynch we want.

    - - - Updated - - -

    And if anyone breaks from where they're supposed to be voting, then we know to lynch them next.
    214 - more of the same

    Quote Originally Posted by CaoimhinTheCape View Post
    That's very true. No way we vote can prove her alignment through this vote.



    Emmy's full name is EmmyNecromancer. I'm guessing that's what he meant.


    Also, if you like my idea... any interest in voting either BatCat or Emmy, rather than RA?





    Vote Count:

    Rogue_Alchemist (3): Flat_Footed, BookWombat, Jeenleen
    Batcathat (11): EmmyNecromancer, Murska, Apogee1, AvatarVecna, Valmark, Elenna, Rogue_Alchemist, Totadileplayz, Xihirli, CaoimhinTheCape, Zelphas, Rogan
    Totadileplayz (1): Batcathat
    BookWombat (1): Libro
    Xirili (1): Mornshine
    CaoimhinTheCape (2): Snowblaze, Bladescape
    EmmyNecromancer (1): Shal06
    228 - vaguely townish if I squint?
    Quote Originally Posted by CaoimhinTheCape View Post
    Oh, you're right Rogan. It would confirm it as a role not in the opening post and therefore not Town or Wolf.
    230 - NAI
    Quote Originally Posted by CaoimhinTheCape View Post
    Yeah, I just didn't update the number. But with totadile's change (and soon mine), it ends up at 10. EmmyNecromancer

    RA and Emmy now have the same number of votes and we should have a comfortable lead for BatCat at the moment, so we should have a better shot of setting up a tie. Though, I am curious as to what Emmy would do if she won.




    Vote Count:

    Rogue_Alchemist (3): Flat_Footed, BookWombat, Jeenleen
    Batcathat (10): EmmyNecromancer, Murska, Apogee1, AvatarVecna, Valmark, Elenna, Rogue_Alchemist, Xihirli, Zelphas, Rogan
    Totadileplayz (1): Batcathat
    BookWombat (1): Libro
    Xirili (1): Mornshine
    CaoimhinTheCape (2): Snowblaze, Bladescape
    EmmyNecromancer (3): Shal06, Totadileplayz, CaoimhinTheCape
    244 - more mechanics
    Quote Originally Posted by CaoimhinTheCape View Post
    BatCat seemed to be engaging in a way that I felt was Townish, like his questioning Apogee in posts #33-35 and asking about Apogee's reads in #48. I definitely brushed over the comments saying "I hope I don't look like a wolf" since that's pretty typical of them. But basically BCH's activity on pages 1 and 2 of the thread seemed like town, nothing on 3 or 4 changed my mind, and the initial claim seemed legit enough at the start of page 5 (until Libro came in).

    It wasn't the strongest town read I've ever had but it was ahead of most other players so i was confident enough to not want to vote BatCat.



    Jeez, I've been terrible with my vote counts this game, haven't I. I'll try to do an updated one now but someone should check me on it. Fixed my own votes, the only one left should be for Emmy (as per the plan).




    I believe I got the votecount below (Thanks AV). My only worry now is that we get near the end of the Day and line up a tie before BatCat moves his vote. That gives him the opportunity to break the tie before EoD and survive. Ideally BatCat should move his vote onto Emmy before we organize a tie ourselves.

    We would also need one more vote on BatCat anyway to bring him up to 11.


    Possible Vote Count

    rogue_alchemist (2): flat_footed, Book Wombat
    totadileplayz (1): Batcathat
    Batcathat (10): EmmyNecromancer, Murska, Apogee1, AvatarVecna, Valmark, Elenna, rogue_alchemist, Xihirli, Zelphas, Rogan
    CaoimhinTheCape (1): Snowblaze
    EmmyNecromancer (6): Shal06, totadileplayz, CaoimhinTheCape, bladescape, JeenLeen, Mornshine

    Not Voting (1): Libro
    282 - *shrug* doesnít really do much for me. I guess itís an answer to a concern, though.
    Quote Originally Posted by CaoimhinTheCape View Post
    Totadile did cross out his last vote, appreciate you moving back to BatCat.
    305 - NAI
    Quote Originally Posted by CaoimhinTheCape View Post
    So, we're at 9 vs 8 (9 with the doublevoter). There's still the threat that BatCat saves himself by voting Emmy and making it 10. Looking at Libro, flat_footed, or BookWombat for vote BatCat and balance things out.






    Vote Count

    rogue_alchemist (2): flat_footed, Book Wombat
    totadileplayz (1): Batcathat
    Batcathat (9): EmmyNecromancer, Murska, Apogee1, AvatarVecna, Valmark, rogue_alchemist, Xihirli, Rogan, Snowblaze
    EmmyNecromancer (8!): Shal06, CaoimhinTheCape, bladescape, JeenLeen, Mornshine, Elenna, Zelphas, totadileplayz

    Not Voting (1): Libro
    310 - NAI (although trying to organise the tie as a whole is... maybe mildly towny?)
    Quote Originally Posted by CaoimhinTheCape View Post
    OK, we should be all set for now. If BatCat plays ball, we get a tie and that means we get to test Emmy. If not, we lynch BatCat.

    BookWombat and flat_footed should vote opposite of each other (with BatCat getting the first vote) to be safe. Can't guarantee we'll get the split we want but better safe than sorry.





    Vote Count

    rogue_alchemist (2): flat_footed, Book Wombat
    totadileplayz (1): Batcathat
    Batcathat (10): EmmyNecromancer, Murska, Apogee1, AvatarVecna, Valmark, rogue_alchemist, Xihirli, Rogan, Snowblaze, Libro
    EmmyNecromancer (8!): Shal06, CaoimhinTheCape, bladescape, JeenLeen, Mornshine, Elenna, Zelphas, totadileplayz
    316 - yet more tie-organising
    Quote Originally Posted by CaoimhinTheCape View Post
    Yeah, comments like those are making me gun shy but everything is lined up correctly now. If anyone changes from what's happening right now (anyone leaving BatCat) anyone online should just jump over to Bat and make sure we get the lynch we want. I should be around till deadline if needed. But, fingers crossed, this will all work out.
    356 - NAI
    Quote Originally Posted by CaoimhinTheCape View Post
    So, if a Town Vig targeted or was redirected to AV, that would mean that the Wolf kill didn't go through for one reason or another.

    We should also get info from the Child of Hades: Highway to Hades. AV would have gotten a result, can pass it along to the Child of Hades who would pass it along to Apogee. If AV got someone guilty then Apogee can pass along the info, if innocent then Apogee has someone new to trust.



    So, in short, we're waiting on info to travel through the grapevine. I'm comfortable placing a vote on Snowblaze while we wait.
    403 - fine, I guess, if a bit lacking in analysis.



    Well, avatar confusion made my job harder on this one. I have concerns, and I could definitely see myself voting here. Taking a break for now, will carry on this afternoon.
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowblaze View Post
    Spoiler: Elenna ISO
    Show

    Quote Originally Posted by Elenna View Post
    Well, I did say I'd vote [COLOR="#FF0000"]Valmark[/COLOR]

    Might change that later though, I also don't really like the fast wagon on AV. But I don't want to vote Shal sine they're new, Murska started an early wagon last game as town, and I don't think the first or second voters ae really suspicious since they couldn't know it would take off. Also, it's AV, who is always a reasonable voting target
    So for now I'll just go with pushing the counterwagon on Valmark.
    23 I donít like, for reasons that have already been discussed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elenna View Post
    Oh, I missed batcathat moving their vote. I think that puts it 3-3 for AV and Valmark? I'm fine with tied wagons.



    Interesting that all three of these are three of the newest players... I'm currently pretty unsure of all of them, but it seems likely you're just picking up signs of inexperience rather than signs of wolfiness.
    26 is a valid point but could also be a wolf trying to discredit early reads. Though two of the three names having flipped neutral makes it look less like soft-defending a partner.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elenna View Post
    Yeah, I think this is the only realistic way Apogee's claim could be a lie. But I agree that wolf masons would be pretty unusual.

    I guess Apogee could also be lying and betting on there being no real masons? But that would be a pretty weird bet, with so many players it seems likely most roles have been used.
    38 is *shrug* not really doing much for me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elenna View Post
    Could be a wolf trying to throw some shade on the mason as an attempt to stop a town network? There were several people (including me) who suggested far-fetched ways Apogee could be a lying wolf, but basically everyone except Valmark agreed that it's much more likely Apogee was town. Kinda weird that Valmark wouldn't realize that.

    Valmark switching off Apogee:

    Could be a townie realizing they're wrong. Could definitely also be a wolf realizing that their attempt to throw shade has failed and quietly backing off in the hopes of not looking too suspicious. It feels kinda off to me that Valmark didn't acknowledge Apogee's response to the above post, or even mention whether or not he still suspects Apogee. Maybe a sign of a wolf that never suspected Apogee in the first place?


    Agreed, the lampshading feels weird but also it's pretty in line with how batcathat has been posting in the last couple games. I'm pretty neutral on them right now. I'd be more suspicious if they were more experienced.


    Yeah, I don't like this either. Town always has a numbers advantage over wolves at the start of the game, and yet in other all-PR games we've still decided to lynch D1. And I know Xi knows that, so what's up with bringing up this suggestion in this game, and not any other all-PR game?
    (Also, Xi calling to stop the bloodshed and violence is definitely weird. )


    Any particular reason? There's a few different reasons people have given for voting batcathat, I'm curious which of them you agree with.


    To clarify, I wasn't debating between voting for Valmark or you, I was debating between voting for Valmark versus voting for someone who voted for you, because your wagon sprang up suspiciously quickly.
    I guess I could have left off the second paragraph and just voted Valmark, but I wanted to flag that the wagon was weird. And then I had to explain why I was voting Valmark instead of pursuing that suspicion.



    FWIW Xi trying to get lynched and AV self-voting are both pretty typical for them regardless of alignment. Not that I don't think Xi is suspicious, because I definitely do, but not because of the asking to be lynched.
    I wouldn't say self-voting is popularized, it's mostly just AV and occasionally Xi.


    I think it's just Mornshine who's inactive now. But given the amount of activity that's happened so far, I think we can do better than "get rid of the inactive".

    ---

    So I'm basically debating between voting Valmark or Xihirli right now. And looking at the votecount, I'm pretty surprised that Xihirli has so few votes given what felt like several people voicing suspicion of her? Kinda makes me wonder if it's because her wolf teammates are holding out on voting her.

    I'm ... moderately certain that this is a correct votecount. Hopefully.

    Batcathat (5): Jeenleen, Bladescape, EmmyNecromancer, Zelphas, Murska
    Valmark (3): AvatarVecna, Xihirli
    AvatarVecna (2): Snowblaze, Shal06
    Rogue_Alchemist (2): Flat_Footed, BookWombat
    Totadileplayz (2): Batcathat, CaoimhinTheCape
    BookWombat (2): Libro, Valmark
    Xihirli (3): rogue_alchemist, Rogan, Elenna
    JeenLeen (1): Totadileplayz

    Not Voting (2): Apogee1, Mornshine

    Apogee, I guess you're waiting to vote until you get more information from QTs?
    101... big wallpost, how do I analyse it? I donít dislike any of the points - I disagree with the Valmark read but thatís not wolfy. And I like taking the initiative to try and get a Xihirli wagon.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elenna View Post
    Now that you've claimed, mind clarifying who might want to kill you for it?

    I'm inclined to trust batcathat right now, since it's not too hard to verify this claim, but then I wasn't all that suspicious of them in the first place.


    When there was already most of a page of discussion including a 4-vote wagon, it seemed a bit late for "it's my firsr post, who cares". (And, like I said, I wanted to call out the quick wagon.)


    If you count two as "a few", then sure. It was more of a general feeling - I was under the impression that several (at least 4-5) people had expressed suspicion of Xi, so I was surprised and suspicious to see only two votes.
    That being said, having actually gone and looked it seems like it was mostly rogue_alchemist expressing suspicion a lot. The only people who said Xi's post was suspicious and didn't vote were you and JeenLeen, and you both had decent reasons - Jeen thought Xi was a neutral and you were less suspicious and also presumably waiting to pick a vote until after doing ISOs. So the low vote count apparently wasn't as weird as I thought it was.


    Okay, the fact that you unvoted makes me a touch less suspicious, but I still don't like the continued throwing of shade on Apogee.

    As has been (also repeatedly) mentioned, Apogee's partner was told that Apogee was town. So they can't be town and wolf, unless gac is lying, which seems quite unlikely.
    Do you really think two wolf masons is plausible? Wolf+neutral masons would also be really weird, and my impression from the role list is that neutral roles are seperate from the above list (which fits with the two neutral claims we've seen).
    Moving my vote back to Valmark.


    Okay, I've done the "unprompted claim D1 as neutral and hope nobody cares enough to kill you" thing too, but it helps if you actually explain your win condition so people know you're not threatening them. Also this power seems weirdly weak and super easy to fake.


    Hmm. I could maybe see 4 neutrals with 12-13 town and 4-5 wolves. Five seems like a lot.


    Throwing shade on Apogee can help wolves even if it doesn't result in a lynch though. It could make people more reluctant to claim to Apogee if they don't 100% trust him, which makes it harder for Apogee to figure stuff out. It can also provide an excuse for wolves to not claim.
    145 is similar really, a big wallpost with a lot of thoughts that donít really give me much of a read.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elenna View Post
    So your claim is that the wolves decided to sacrifice a wolf (since if you die and are revealed to be telling the truth, Libro will definitely be lynched next) just in order to get rid of an alignment seer who can't even reliably identify wolves? That seems... unlikely, to say the least, Batcathat.
    166: trying to kill Batcathat yesterday is about as controversial and informative as trying to kill me today.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elenna View Post
    The way I'm interpreting this (and the way I've seen people do it in the past) is that wolves win if it's guaranteed they'll be able to kill all townies. Normally if wolves outnumber town then they control both the lynch and the NK, so they win because town can't stop them. But if neutrals can prevent wolves from killing all the townies, then wolves don't win even if they outnumber town.
    gac, does that sound right to you?


    Yeah, I'm keeping my vote on you. Mind telling us your actual power/wincon, though? Mostly for my own curiosity, I'm having trouble imagining an answer that would cause me to move my vote.

    Also, there's more than 24 hours left in the day, it's pretty early to panic and claim, especially with a fakeclaim, and especially given the amount of vote movement that's been happening...
    190: mildly towny if I squint
    Quote Originally Posted by Elenna View Post
    I... don't think they claimed any ability for their supposed neutral role? They claimed Child of Athena, yeah, but it's pretty clear that's not their real ability.
    192: NAI, although I lied earlier. Iím actually Harry Potter who is the son of Zeus. Oh yeah, and Iím the Seer. AV had a power to flip as a different role.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elenna View Post
    I'm leery of schemes that require everyone to vote a certain way. Too easy for someone to mess it up, deliberately or not. Also I think it's better for town if Emmy stays in the game. (Also also, did Emmy ever actually confirm that their wincon was breaking a tie? Not sure if I missed something.)

    EDIT: Ninja'd. I like the version where we test Emmy a little better, since the consequences for screwing up the test are lower. Still think it's likely to not work, though.
    212: mechanics, NAI
    Quote Originally Posted by Elenna View Post
    Okay, if most people, including Apogee, are okay with this vote split plan, then l guess I'm fine wth it. I oike that the other target is a neutral.

    EmmyNecromancer since more people are on BCH right now. I'll try to be around for EOD, but no promises.


    If I were wolf buddies with BCH, I wouldn't be that obvious in defending them. At least not after it became clear that they were a likely lynch target (which did happen some time before the claim/counterclaim).

    Other buddies... I've talked about suspecting Valmark and Xihirli, obviously, but that's not for any connection with batcathat. Caoimhin is the obvious suspect, but he's an obvious suspect for the same reason I am, which makes me less inclined to suspect him, since I know the suspicion is wrong when it comes to me. Beyond that, I'm gonna have to look at the vote movement sometime before D2 and think about it.

    Emmy staying in the game obviously gives the advantage of one extra vote with which to control the lynch, but in practice that only works if Emmy votes in a way that will help town, and she has no incentive one way or the other. She could just as well help out the wolves. I'd be surprised if wolves hadn't already reached out to her through batcathat, which makes it super easy for them to coordinate.
    I'm inclined to say that I'd prefer Emmy leave the game, for less uncertainty, but obviously it's up to her.


    What? If/when batcathat flips wolf, that basically confirms that the actual Child of Iris is actually neutral, right? Why would two wolves counterclaim each other?

    In the bizzaro world where they flip neutral, I guess the options are a) there are two neutral children of Iris, or b) I guess a wolf happened to claim the same role as a real neutral role? The former seems more likely to me, given the large number of minor gods. Haven't put much thought into it though so there might be a possibility I'm missing.
    283: I donít dislike this but I donít particularly like it either. A bit of a theme emerging here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elenna View Post
    Actually I guess wolf!batcathat did claim the same role as a real neutral role, huh. So I guess we just have an unlikely coincidence happening.
    285: NAI
    Quote Originally Posted by Elenna View Post
    Not as relevant now, but:
    Basically Iris is the goddess in charge of sending magical messages back and forth (IIRC cellphones attract mythical monsters or something like that). I wouldn't have said she's super important at any point, but obviously she plays an important role in the background.
    I would definitely not have thought of her first, or even close to first, if you asked me to name a minor god/goddess who shows in Percy Jackson. But I'm more familiar with the second series (Heroes of Olympus), which I believe had more minor gods showing up compared to the first series. If you're focusing on minor gods from the first series, I guess I could see both gac and the wolves going with Iris.


    Uh. What.

    So, they're saying they gave you the wrong name by accident? I guess? Or are they saying they fakeclaimed to you originally for... some reason??

    Just gonna assume it's the first one, i.e. they're claiming to have said the wrong name by accident earlier.

    Hmm, are people more likely to mess up a fakeclaim or a real claim? I could see a wolf discussing multiple fakeclaims and losing track of what they decided to use. I could maybe also see someone who's not very familiar with Percy Jackson or Greek mythology, who forgot the name of their role, but in that case it would be really weird for them to come up with the name of a different real goddess. Unless they claimed after batcathat and mixed it up with that? Idk, still seems weird.
    FWIW the only time I've messed up my claim, it was a fakeclaim. But that's just one data point.

    Going through all the possibilities, in no particular order:
    1. Both are neutrals telling the truth. This requires batcathat to have enacted a really bad plan instead of just claiming their real role, and also requires the Child of Ariadne to have failed to remember their actual role name and instead mixed it up with the name of another role that wasn't even in the role list. If they claimed before BCH, where did they pull Iris from? If they claimed after BCH, how did they not double-check their role name before counterclaiming? Just seems really weird either way.

    2. BCH is a neutral who made bad decisions, Child of Ariadne is a lying wolf who wants to avoid suspicion after BCH's flip. I don't see why a wolf in that position would go back on their claim and make themselves look even weirder, instead of just claiming to be a second Child of Iris, but maybe they panicked? Again, requires really weird decisions on BCHs part, too.

    3. BCH is a lying wolf, Child of Ariadne is a real neutral. BCH's decisions make slightly more sense in this case. Still really weird for the real neutral to get their name wrong, same as possibility 1. I guess in this world it would just be a coincidence that the real neutral used the wrong name and then BCH picked the same name for a fakeclaim??

    4. Both are wolves who got really confused about their fakeclaims and/or both accidentally used the same fakeclaim. I could easily see that happening, but I don't understand why the "Child of Ariadne" would change their claim instead of just continuing to pretend to be a child of Iris and getting neutral cred when batcathat was lynched. Maybe panic? Maybe they really hate bussing their buddy??

    All these options are really weird. I think 3 or 4 are most likely, probably. I definitely still think we should vote BCH today (or do the vote split plan with the intention of lynching BCH). Even if they're somehow telling the truth, it's worth it to kill a neutral in order to get more info on this weirdness.

    Apogee, I'd like to see that conversation regardless of batcathat's flip, if that's fine with you.

    EDIT: So many ninjas... then again it did take me like 50 min to write this post.
    320: I disagree on me/Batcathat wolfbuddies being anything other than ďutterly crazyĒ. Though, considering this game so far...
    Quote Originally Posted by Elenna View Post
    Congrats Emmy!

    We should probably save the detailed public discussion of batcathat and the "Child of Ariadne" until Day phase, in case it helps the wolves pick their actions. (Saying this mostly for the benefit of the new players.)
    375: NAI
    Quote Originally Posted by Elenna View Post
    And yeah, I think it helped that there was one obvious non-Emmy target.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Really? A ninja in the literally 30 seconds since my last post?
    377: also NAI
    Quote Originally Posted by Elenna View Post
    Okay, I guess we're discussing this now.

    5 wolves and 5 neutrals isn't really LYLO, that would only be the case if all the neutrals were guaranteed to side with the wolves, which I would assume is not true. Also, there could be four wolves. Actually, totadile, what makes you think there are exactly 5 wolves?
    That being said, I'll agree that 5 neutrals seems like too many for a 21-player game.

    (Do we have 5 neutral claims? I also thought there were five but can't remember why now. Batcathat, Emmy, Jeen, supposedly Snowblaze... who else?)

    I'll also agree that "I don't have any power" is super weird in an all PR game and reads to me like "I didn't want to fake a power that I couldn't actually do".
    390: mechanics, NAI
    Quote Originally Posted by Elenna View Post
    Lynch or You Lose - it's the situation where town has to lynch correctly or lose the game. Eg if there's two wolves snd three town.
    392: NAI
    Quote Originally Posted by Elenna View Post
    Right, yeah, that's what I was forgetting.


    By the way, I'm waiting for an answer about why you're sure there's 5 wolves.

    Yes, technically if 5 wolves and 5 neutrals were alive as of D2 they could win the game. Technically. But that would a wolf to randomly out themselves, hoping that there are 5 neutrals, and hoping that they are all willing to cooperate with the wolves. I can't imagine a wolf team ever making that gamble, so I wouldn't consider it LYLO. (Also, it sounds like Jeen and the Champion of Hera are opposed somehow, if Jeen is telling the truth, so I doubt they would both work with wolves.)

    Anyways, that's mostly a theoretical comment on the definition of LYLO. I agree that in this particular game, it seems unlikely that there are five neutrals.

    If there aren't actually five neutrals, that means either Jeen or Snowblaze is lying, and I know which one seems more suspicious to me. Besides, Snow's lack of a power seems really weird, as I said earlier.


    Oh, I missed that bit in the narration. Yes, I think the vigilante probably killed AV. Apogee, if you have any comments you can share on how the vigilante ended up hitting the seer, I'm very interested to hear them.
    I guess one possible answer is "the vigilante is a wolf". I really hope that's not the case, but IIRC gac said no role was absolutely 100% town or 100% wolf, so it's possible?

    There's a few possible ways that the wolf kill could have been prevented
    - The baner (child of Poseidon) protected the wolf target.
    - The wolves targeted the child of Ares who has Hard to Kill.
    - The voider (the person with Drunken Fun) targeted the wolf who did the kill.

    This is probably obvious, but the baner and voider should let Apogee know who they targeted tonight if they haven't already.

    @gac: Does the person with Hard to Kill get notified if they lose their extra life?
    405: mechanics, also trying to kill me which doesnít tell us much
    Quote Originally Posted by Elenna View Post
    Ninja'd. I guess the voider doesn't have to say who they voided. Unless they voided someone who's not Xi, in which case I'm going to have a lot of questions.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Aaaand more ninjas
    409: NAI
    Quote Originally Posted by Elenna View Post
    Well, if the voider says they didn't target Xi, there could also be a vortex (or two) involved. Anyways at this point I'm just waiting for Apogee to pass on anything he wants to pass on. Although if he doesn't want to say anything, I'm also 100% fine with lynching Snowblaze.

    ...if Snowblaze is somehow another neutral telling the truth about having made an incredibly bad and unlikely play, I will... be very confused, I guess.
    412: NAI. You will be very confused.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elenna View Post
    That makes some sense, although that post also assumes there's one neutral when we now know there's significantly more, so the numbers aren't really applicable. But I can understand getting the number in your head and forgetting it was just speculation, I guess.
    415: NAI



    ...slight scum lean???

    Iím struggling a bit here - thereís a lot of content but none of it screams town. And there are a few points of concern.
    It Got Too Long Jeenleen's and Flatfooted's Will be posted subsequently.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Here is a serious question though why is it that the list changes to other emojis?

    - - - Updated - - -

    And can someone please post something? I Can't make a new post, to send the others until someone does so.

  28. - Top - End - #448
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Percy Jackson

    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    It's time I come honest to the Town. I already told this to Apogee, Snowblaze, and another person earlier this Day, but I'm actually the Champion of Hera.

    I fakeclaimed Champion of Zeus because I didn't want the vigilante to kill me N1. Hoping that N2 onward there's a better target, e.g., someone likely a wolf. I was hoping the misinfo, or giving some hooks, might help me catch a wolf (or Zeusling), but it didn't work. At this point, I think the misinfo about the number of neutrals will hurt the town instead of being indifferent, so coming clean.

    I still think my best bet is to ally with the Town. My hope is that we find the NKer and kill them (as a wolf Zeusling), and that the wolves randomly kill the other Zeusling before the game ends.
    So Town Zeusling, I do want you dead, but I think it probably better you spend time killing others, because I don't really have any means to help kill you beyond my vote.

    Here's my true, full Role.


    Also, I find it really odd that Snowblaze is claiming no power. Did I read that right? Especially since her Role is kinda the inverse of mine, so I'd think it'd have a scry or something at least.
    Also also, I doubt there's more than 4 neutrals. So if anyone else beyond me and Snowblaze claims neutral, probably a lying wolf.

    I still lean towards believing Snowblaze, and think it more likely Valmark or Xi are wolves than her.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I forgot something.

    gac3 said, at some point, that some Roles might have a bit of extra info other than what was supplied in the opening post/recruitment. (Right?)
    Apogee told me, when I claimed Champion of Zeus, that someone told him a Champion of Hera existed.

    My guess is that the wolf Zeusling is the one with a NK power, and to balance how that is effectively no power for a wolf, they were told that someone (Champion of Hera) is hunting them.
    Though Apogee knows best who his source is.

    On RNG of the Roles

    It seems that gac3 said literally any named Role (even vig-Zeus or one of the Children of Demeter) can be a wolf, based on the RNG process he used. It's weighted, so it's unlikely, but it's still possible (just not probable.)

    I'm not saying we should suspect Apogee, nor do I exactly care given my neutrality, but the Town should keep that in mind. Or Apogee should doubt this sibling.
    Though I reckon the probability that both the vig-Zeus and a Demeter-kid both RNGed as wolf is exceptionally low... so if one of them flips wolf, the other is probably town just due to probability. Not proven, but literally probably Town just via the likelihood of things.
    Finally using my Stats degree in a game. Yay.

    Apogee's silence thus far is making me more suspect of him. BUT it is the weekend, and I know I'm usually more quiet during the weekend than not, so I'm willing to give benefit of the doubt to him. E.g, that he's silent due to real life, not because he's a wolf and realizes that something he needs to say will look bad for him or a scumbuddy.
    I intended to wait until I get a reply from Apogee to some questions, but it seems like he is busy today.

    I think your explanation for the fake claim is in line with what you have said before. Especially if Apogee can confirm he told you he knew about the existence of your real role.

    Your power feels a bit strange. It's a scry for Children of Zeus (this is something I would expect) but instead of killing, you only block them? I could imagine you are faking this part again, in order to appear as a lesser danger than you really are for a child of Zeus.

    All in all, I think you are really Neutral and I hope you will stand by your word to vote for town.
    However, I wonder why you assume that the lightning power is wolf, while the mystic power is town. Okay, hitting the seer looks quite bad, but how should the wolf team have known AV was the seer? There are two possibilities.
    Apogee or his partner is a wolf.
    It was random chance.

    Your other argument was, that Apogee knew your role existed and you think it's more likely for a wolf to receive this warning than a town player... this is not illogical, but it's not really convincing either. Which leads me to the following:
    I would love to know if the children of Dionysus received a hint that someone might watch them? If they did, it would both give points to Snows claim and be precedent for a role getting additional Intel (with was stated to be possible by gac) without needing to be a wolf.

    Now, one last question.
    Why should we believe you are not going to switch sides after you got the wolf child of Zeus killed? Killing a wolf is better done by Town, but killing a town is easier for a wolf.

  29. - Top - End - #449
    Halfling in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Percy Jackson

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowblaze View Post
    EmmyNecromancer is confirmed neutral, so... flat_footed.

    Spoiler: flat_footed ISO
    Show

    Quote Originally Posted by flat_footed View Post
    In their defense, it will substantially limit our QT count.

    Rogue_Alchemist
    , there can only be one!
    5 - NAI
    Quote Originally Posted by flat_footed View Post


    Shiny badges aside... this is pretty much my usual style. I'm quiet and then cannot keep my mouth shut once I'm on the lynching block.
    And no, that's not an invitation to dog pile me!
    As it stands, Batcathat.
    Quote Originally Posted by flat_footed View Post


    Shiny badges aside... this is pretty much my usual style. I'm quiet and then cannot keep my mouth shut once I'm on the lynching block.
    And no, that's not an invitation to dog pile me!
    As it stands, Batcathat.
    323 - NAI
    Quote Originally Posted by flat_footed View Post
    Noise is good, don't feel like you have to apologize for contributing. Just be careful not to talk yourself into getting lynched!
    328 - NAI
    Quote Originally Posted by flat_footed View Post
    Day 1 loses I've seen plenty of. Day 1 wins, though? Not so much. Well played Emmy!
    371 - NAI



    Oh, look, another dead null. Same question as to Book Wombat: top non-confirmed townread, top non-me scumread, please.
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowblaze View Post
    Oh well. Onwards. For - actually, why am I doing these again?

    Spoiler: JeenLeen ISO
    Show

    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    A random or RNG vote on AV makes sense early day. Harmless early D1 poke.
    A second vote so quick...
    A third vote... seems very aggressive and unusual.

    Murska died so early last game, I'll go with Batcathat.
    Just this seems odd so early D1. Yeah, we eventually need a wagon to get real discussion going, but usually we have more votes first.
    On the other hand, might be nothing. This seems in line with Batcathat's style, and Murska pushed for a wagon earlier than I would have thought last game and it helped foster discussion.



    A fair counterpoint

    - - - Updated - - -



    Note: this vote happened after I wrote the above.
    Not sure if Shad06 is a new to this subforum or not, but we generally don't lynch new players D1... so I'll just leave a 4th vote so early out of my thoughts for now.
    17 is mildly towny, I guess. (Using towny to mean ‚Äúthe opposite of wolfy‚ÄĚ here. I know I‚Äôm referring to a claimed neutral who can‚Äôt reasonably be town.)
    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    1) it's likely the Children of Demeter are in the game, given the high number of players
    2) it seems unlikely this Role would be wolf, though not impossible. If wolf, they basically have no power, which seems really weak for two wolves to be powerless

    So I'm willing to trust him. It could be a wolf gambit, but such seems unlikely.
    If we have a seer (quite likely given the player count), I lean that they check him just in case. Also. that our tracker/watcher (whichever sees who targets the person they target) look at Apogee.
    The former helps build trust; if Apogee scries Town, the seer can claim to Apogee privately and help build out the trusted network. The latter might might verify a baner (if he gets baned) or a wolf (if he gets NKed), helping either strengthen the Town network or find a wolf. But I understand the seer might prefer to look at a less trustworthy target OR be afraid that the tracker/watcher is a wolf and might be targeting Apogee to try to find power-roles.
    In other words, this is a suggestion for night actions, but it's not perfect by any means and no criticism if folk choose differently. Or maybe this is all WIFOM to make the wolves sweat when choosing targets tonight.

    On the other hand, I am an overly-paranoid person, so...
    Thought I don't believe it, I could see this as a "wolf power" in that it is powerful to safely claim being Children of Demeter. I still doubt it, and it goes real bad for the other one once one dies and flips wolf...
    Also, if there are a high number of wolves, I could see one sacrificing themself in a gambit like this to gain significant intel.
    Again, not really believing these, but feel like it's good to throw it out there.

    There's also the (I think unlikely) possibility that a wolf!Demeter has a 'side power' of their sibling being told both are Town... but I'd like to assume gac3 isn't lying to them. Stilll, Other Child of Demeter, you might want to ask in your QT just to verify.
    42 - analysis of the Apogee claim... yeah, let‚Äôs go with ‚Äúmechanics, NAI‚ÄĚ
    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    Xi is calling for calm and rational gathering of data, as opposed to shedding blood.
    I'm not sure what to make of it, but it sounds really off.

    She has a fair point, but I think lynching somebody is still a good move due to the info it yields. I admit I haven't been in a game this big before, so maybe the potential info-gathering is worthwhile... but just this sounds really odd based on what I've heard in every other mafia game.
    On the other hand, it doesn't feel particularly wolfish. The wolves want us to mislynch someone D1. So, the only reason a wolf would argue for no-lynch is if the major wagons are wolves, but doing so puts the target on herself later on and seems a bad move. Unless it's so non-wolfish it is wolfish, but those are the WIFOM spirals. On a third hand, I could see Xi doing a bold wolf move like this, even if it doesn't seem to be something a wolf would want.

    In short, this sounds weird in general, and more than usual when coming from Xi. But not necessarily wolf-weird. Maybe some sort of neutral with an odd win-con?
    55 is waffly, but it’s an understandable topic to be confused on.
    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    I decided I should've just straight-forward asked her: Xi, what's up with not trying to kill people?



    First sentence sounds a touch defensive for a townie. But it's reasonable given some votes piling up on him.
    Second sentence... could be simply stating a fact, but also feels like a wolf perhaps subtly persuading the baner to do what they want? Or Townie trying to manipulate the wolves.
    Third sentence: no real bother by a vote on me. But it seems a good cover for a wolf trying to vote without making waves.

    In short: seems kinda wolfish, but... well, I generally get a wolfish vibe from totaldile even when he's Town, so I don't put much by it. I'm still feeling comfortable keeping my vote on Batcathat.
    57 is... my gut says slightly wolfy but my brain says NAI
    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    I am making this post primarily to quote this out of context for how funny it sounds.
    But I'm sympathetic to the other points Batcathat makes. I often find it tempting to say something, only to think it'll sound wolfish, and that's regardless of my alignment. It's hard to know how to read a lampshading, but I could see it coming from a wolf or a townie. Though generally the meta is to take such as wolfy.



    No problem. I've had that problem myself with folk with similar icons, even sometimes with Cao.
    62 - NAI
    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    I meant to make this joke/comment during the Yugioh game, but every time I see "Book Wombat" I think of the Yugioh card "Des Wombat".
    One of my friends loved to run burn decks, so Des Wombat was a favorite side deck card for me and my other friends who played against him.
    71 - also NAI. I’m a survivor, by the way. I’ve just been possessed by an evil spirit forcing me to play against my win condition - ignore that. I’m a Child of Iris. I mean Ariadne.
    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    Note: been too busy to read all the ISOs and do thorough analysis of the last couple pages of posts

    I'm also Neutral. Though a Champion of one of the gods, not a Child of one of the less prominent ones.
    I got the impression from Recruitment that not all the named Roles were in the game, so I do think it's believable there's more than one Neutral.



    Do you know how your power would read a Champion, as opposed to a Child?




    Noting this sounds believable. The power seems subpar, though, but I don't think a wolf would want to make up a power from scratch.
    Would you be willing to send your full Role text (flavor and power) to Apogee, so he can compare it to mine?



    I second her answering this question.
    136 - neutral claim. Unprompted but I could see Jeen making that move as a wolf.
    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    Fair point.
    I'm willing to put some pressure on EmmyNecromancer, unless I get word from Apogee he'd rather her stay alive.
    138 - not so much a fan of ‚ÄúI just claimed neutral, now I‚Äôll pressure the other neutral claimant‚ÄĚ
    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    I greatly appreciate your Vote Counts and wish you to keep doing them.
    Honestly, after you die, I often get real fuzzy about who is in the lead because I've been relying on them.



    Note from the opening post


    So we have knowledge things like Huntress (and presumably similar god-specific terms), Champions, and Child(ren) can exist.
    142 - NAI
    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    If EmmyNecromancer's win-con is to use her power, and she exits the game if she wins...
    Should we get a tie and let her decide who dies, then have her exit? If she doesn't leave the game, she's a lying wolf.

    That would seem to maximize info for the Town (still get a lynch) and remove a Neutral (seems valued by some townies.)
    On the other hand, every player that goes away makes it one step closer to the wolves controlling the vote. For that reason, I'd think neutrals existing are good. (Also some bias in that I don't want to be killed )
    Yeah, they could side with the wolves, but they also could just be an extra vote keeping control contested. When Town or Wolf, I generally think killing neutrals is a waste since the death would better go towards removing the rival faction. But since we potentially could eliminate a troublesome Neutral and get a lynch, I can see aiming for a tie this Day.
    153 - mechanics, NAI
    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    If EmmyNecromancer's win-con is to use her power, and she exits the game if she wins...
    Should we get a tie and let her decide who dies, then have her exit? If she doesn't leave the game, she's a lying wolf.

    That would seem to maximize info for the Town (still get a lynch) and remove a Neutral (seems valued by some townies.)
    On the other hand, every player that goes away makes it one step closer to the wolves controlling the vote. For that reason, I'd think neutrals existing are good. (Also some bias in that I don't want to be killed )
    Yeah, they could side with the wolves, but they also could just be an extra vote keeping control contested. When Town or Wolf, I generally think killing neutrals is a waste since the death would better go towards removing the rival faction. But since we potentially could eliminate a troublesome Neutral and get a lynch, I can see aiming for a tie this Day.
    169 - ...probably NAI
    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    I've been pondering why Batcathat would fakeclaim.
    But if wolf!Batcathat really thought he was going to get lynched, I can see him fakeclaiming in order to at least gain intel for the wolves. By fakeclaiming, he gets a counterclaim and the wolves now know who the real Child of Athena is.

    Of course, other possibilities exist, but I can see this as a smart way to maximize a death.
    Still think Libro did the right thing in counterclaiming. Just noting this to try to think of why Batcathat might make fakeclaim, when Batcathat presumably has a safe Role he could claim (since no Roles are definitely wolf or town.)

    On the other hand, wolf!Libro fakeclaiming to get Batcathat killed seems very odd and little value. It's not like he reveals alignment.
    Unless he's a Neutral who wants to kill the specific Role that Batcathat has... but that seems unlikely. Possible, but unlikely he's lucky enough the person he wants dead happened to claim D1.

    EDIT: massively ninja'd. Will rethink later
    187 - seems a believable thought process
    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    Actually, after a touch more thought, I'm inclined to think Batcathat really is a wolf and this is a last-ditch effort to let him live as a neutral.
    Eh, I don't have much dog in this fight, I guess... I'd still like us to try to do a tie in hopes that we confirm EmmyNecromancer. I guess it's not as bad if Apollo's kid screws up the votecount now.

    On that note, gac3: would we see the vote-counts with the modification, and thus know if a Child of Apollo voted because the total number of votes on someone would be 1 more than the number of voters?
    189 - continuation of the process in 187
    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    If you are a wolf and made that up, brilliant move. It's weird enough that it's hard to believe it's made-up. But also almost completely untestable. Or, well, I guess we could let you live and you post something in the two QTs to let us know you are who you say. If you're a lying wolf, your wolf-buddies have to out themselves to cover for your lies. If you're not a lying wolf... well, no harm in letting you live.
    I reckon the best win strategy for you is to wait until the game is nearly over to guess. You can guess 100% accuracy the alignment of the dead players, and, near the end, it should be clear enough. Er, maybe.
    Though I guess the lie could just be your win-con (and maybe your parent/sponsor), and you're a serial killer with a QT-infiltration power. But that seems odd.

    I'd feel better if we knew if you or EmmyNecromancer were lying. Both of your win-cons (assuming we guessed hers correctly) don't really give any incentive for folk to kill you. There's no reason not to claim, since no risk involved. While it's possible Neutrals were made with no risk of claiming, it's... poor design, as, well, a Neutral needs some reason to not claim to just not become a third party (beyond the reason that being known as Neutral might make folk kill you in case you lie about your power/win-con.)
    For me... well, Apogee knows the details of my Role and how it could potentially give incentive for somebody to kill me. That's also the reason I'm not publicly stating the details of my role.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also, EmmyNecromancer, want to share the exact text of your neutral "Child of X" text?
    Because Batcathat's is rather different format than mine. It could be that I'm a Champion, not a Child... but it seems oddly different, especially the formatting around the Win Condition.
    195 - mechanics, NAI
    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    Fair point. Counterclaiming is a safe and towncred-y move, while not necessarily logically yielding towncred.
    Libro.
    203 - wait, what? I must have missed that the first time. Why would they vote for Libro before Batcathat even flipped? Maybe it’s just a Weird Post, but it feels wolfy.
    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    Fun idea, but probably not feasible.

    There's 21 players. 1 of which is probably the vote-manip Child of Apollo. Let's hope they claimed to Apogee.
    10 of us vote Batcathat.
    10 of us vote someone else. I would lean Libro, but I guess he's basically town-vetted since batcathat suggested he's lying... so... Valmark had some heat and Xi asked to be lynched, so maybe one of them? Or we vote on whoever the most inactive (flat_footed or BookWombat) voted, since they might not be able to change their vote. Oh, and those both voted for rogue_alchemist, so that's easy.
    Child of Apollo votes a third party.

    If all goes as planned:
    -EmmyNecromancer fixes the tie to lynch Batcathat. She maybe exits the game. We presumably get a wolf.
    -Child of Apollo gets verified as his Role. Not sure if this is a good or bad thing.
    Even if Batcathat is a wolf and a scumbuddy wants to not play ball to save him, they really can't because doing so would get them lynched D2. If we agree to this, everyone has to play ball.

    I loathe changing my vote so many times, but rogue_alchemistto try to make this feasible.
    But I really doubt we'll get enough agreement to go this route. I understand folk want to get the wolf dead and not risk it to a possible-Neutral or (if she's lying) a coinflip.
    209 - mechanics
    Quote Originally Posted by Valmark View Post
    While posting next to the spoiler button there should be a symbol of three letters crossed, just select what you want crossed and press that.

    Otherwise you can write "[S]" before the vote then the same thing after but with a "/" between the first parenthesis and S.

    Like this (if you quote me you should see the code I used).

    - - - Updated - - -



    Dang, this explanation is way neater.
    225 - NAI
    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    I'll be online tomorrow (not close to Day's end, but some during the Day.)
    If flat_footed and BookWombat have been active and moved their vote, I'd be happy to follow. I'm just sticking on RA because I think those are least likely to be around to move their votes.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I think it's 12 votes on Batcathat currently, not 11.
    Everyone has voted, correct?
    232 - NAI
    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    If some people stay inactive, perhaps a few (who will be online late enough) should be pre-desingated to move their votes to set it up as desired. As already stated, I worry about our more-inactive not being around to move their vote. But if 2 folk don't vote for Emmy, then 2 could drop off Batcathat and still get the right ratio.

    And I'm playing ball: EmmyNecromancer.
    253 - NAI
    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    Here's how I see the other Child of Iris as rather suspect, but not necessarily a lying wolf, if Batcathat flips Neutral.
    ----
    We know that unnamed Roles are Neutrals.
    Thus, a Child of Iris is, by definition, Neutral.

    We also know Roles aren't duplicated. However, we know that Children aren't defined just by their parent but by their power. So it is possible (though I think unlikely) there's two Neutral Children of Iris.
    Right? gac3 hasn't confirmed that there can't be two Children of Iris, has he?

    So, if Batcathat really is a Neutral Child of Iris, I think it likely that a wolf fakeclaimed Child of Iris.
    At least if the timing works out. If the other Child of Iris claimed to Apogee before Batcathat made that claim... it could be a wolf having made the claim up like we suspect of Batcathat. If the other one claimed after the fact, I find them more believable as that seems a sloppy move. Well, unless it's a scumbuddy bussing Batcathat, but that seems unlikely.

    I Googled some Percy Jackson stuff, and it sounds like Iris is a minor deity but becomes important some point in the novels. So... seems a reasonable bet for making up a fakeclaim someone hopes is safe (that is, unused) but is still believable.

    Of course, if Batcathat flips wolf, then we can trust (or probably can trust) the other Child of Iris as a neutral. I doubt both would be wolves.
    289 - a lot of words to say something fairly obvious and about to become irrelevant
    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    Apogee posted the unclaim datum while I was writing my post.

    ...but, yeah, as Xi said, this looks really suspect. I'm pretty sure at least one person claiming Neutral is a wolf, since it sounds like there's a lot of neutral claims. I've generally seen 2 neutrals in a game around 16 players. I could see 3 or 4 in this game... but, well, no clue how many are around now, but it feels like more.
    Maybe the vigilante should take out that Neutral? Assuming networked with Apogee and he can coordinate it secretly.

    But, just that Neutral. Leave me alive.
    I'm really hoping there's some good wolf candidates N2, so it makes more sense to target them than to take me out to remove a Neutral

    --- ---

    Regarding what Emmy should do, I would think having her stay around as a confirmed Neutral who already won is good for Town. She could effectively be a townie (definitely has reason to be thankful for the Town coordinating this D1), and she ahs no incentive to join the wolves (beyond possibly laughs). As long as she becomes publicly Narrator-confirmed, I don't have a strong opinion.
    291 - disagree on Emmy sticking around but that’s mechanical stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    If you are a group of wolves choosing fakeclaim Neutrals, and you used the wrong one when fakeclaiming to Apogee?

    I mean, that's one scenario where I can see this happening. I feel bad for the wolf faction if that's the case. But if Batcathat flips neutral, it disproves that conspiracy.

    - - - Updated - - -



    By "lines up with what they claimed earlier", do you mean they claimed a different power and it makes more sense for a Child of Ariadne?
    294 - NAI
    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    I'll check back in a couple hours or so, and around 3 or 4 PM EST. If I should change my vote to help the split, let me know.
    It looks like it's mostly okay, but I am around to be able to move things if needed.
    312 - NAI
    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    So... like, do we need one person to move their vote off of Batcathat to make the tie thing happen?
    They should vote for some third person, right?

    As I'm voting Emmy already, I don't think I can do this... so, uh, someone help the plan please.

    - - - Updated - - -

    But please confirm it needs to happen first. Not sure if I followed the votes right.
    338 - NAI
    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    For those of you active right now and currently voting Bathatcat, would you be willing to move your vote to a third party like me?

    That'd give 10 votes for BCH and 9(+1 Apollo) for Emmy.
    Yeah, someone could change their vote and screw it up, but then they'd be targeted the next day.
    344... yup, you guessed it.
    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    I don't think I've ever felt thankful someone voted me before. Thanks.
    Now just as long as nobody else changes their votes, we should be good to test this. I'm curious if it'll be removing 2 neutrals or a neutral and a wolf.
    347 can you tell I’m getting bored of typing those three letters?
    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    So, uh, I hope gac3 is waiting for an answer from EmmyNecromancer, because this looks... well, not necessarily bad, but really annoying.
    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    I wonder if Currently Inconclusive means he might have won, but it depends on what other folk do in the transition from Day to Night. Or if it's just a way of redacting the win condition.
    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    Oh, right. I didn't read all the Spoiler.

    I guess he could win, either through someone in the deadchat sharing links with him that other folk don't know about.
    E.g., if Apogee dies, he could probably let Batcathat win via sharing the Town network, but not telling us that. We do don't technically KNOW (even if we assume) and batcathat gets a win despite being dead.
    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    Oh, yeah. Generally we avoid talk at Night, but naming this person sounds wise since Apogee wants to keep their fellow Child of Demeter secret, so he should out the supposed "Ariadne" just in case he dies tonight.
    363, 365, 367, 381 yes, you can
    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    For what it's worth, Snowblaze's explanation sounds reasonable. It could be a good cover story for a wolf who goofed up, but it's believable.
    Her claiming before Apogee could out her feels sincere, but could also be a wolf trying to gain cred, but that's a WIFOM spiral that doesn't really lead anywhere.

    ---

    ...from something Apogee told me, he suspects a Champion of Hera is in the game, based on something someone else told him. (To my possibly-incomplete knowledge, nobody has claimed that Role to Apogee.)
    I think this Champion might have a win-con opposed to mine and might know it. No hard evidence, and nothing I want to state more explicitly publicly, but...

    Well, I wouldn't state this even this openly usually lest I draw that Champion's ire, but the Champion of Hera can likely deduce who I am. We've got 2 exited neutrals, 2 neutral claims (me and Snowblaze), and apparently a Champion of Hera floating around. That's 5 neutrals, 4 if Snowblaze is a wolf who really goofed up. 5 or 6 neutrals sounds incredibly unlikely. Whoever the Champion of Hera is, they can conclude I'm the opposed Neutral.

    So, Champion of Hera, if you'd like to discuss things, please feel free to PM me a QuickTopic. Maybe there's a way we can both win.
    Or wait until Day if you like. I think it'd be a waste for the wolves or a vigilante to kill me, but... well, no reason wasting a QT if I die this Night.
    385 feels too elaborate and risky for a wolf to make up.
    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    @Apogee: was AV killed by the Town Network, or is this a wolf kill?
    Or did the vigilante!Zeusling try to kill someone else and get redirected (presumably by the other Zeusling)?

    I don't know if gac's statements thus far 100% confirm it was a Zeusling that killed AV, but it seems likely.

    I'm inclined to believe Snowblaze, and also have reason (being a neutral) to try to keep neutrals around. I know Elenna isn't one of the Zeusling via my Night power, so I'll go with Valmark. They looked iffy D1 according to AV, but suspicions kinda died out with the focus on Batcathat and EmmyNecromancer. Perhaps he killed her in hopes that suspicion didn't rearise?

    - - - Updated - - -

    OH. A thought: I figured two kills probably were attempted last night, but one was stopped by a baner or voider. But if the "vigilante"-powered Zeusling is a wolf, it's probably not that the wolves get two kills a night, but some augmentation to the power. (Or the wolves effectively got someone without a power.)
    Not sure what to make of that, but gac3 did state (I think) that every named Role had a chance of being Town or Wolf. I would think that one had a small chance of RNGing wolf, but it's still possible.

    I reckon any baners/voiders/watchers/trackers should give intel to Apogee, and maybe they can puzzle out who the killer is.
    400 *shrug* I guess I appreciate not trying to kill me?
    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    Also, it's possible AV still got her Night Feedback, and could tell it to the necromancer (if in play) via deadchat.
    Though, well, I guess we don't know if that would happen or not.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Xi is claiming she's not the killer.
    How very odd this game has been. Active D1. Neutrals winning D1. Xi saying we shouldn't kill and then not killing anyone.

    But, sincerely, thanks for sharing that the void happened.
    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    Flavor text makes it sound like a Child of Zeus did it. And most seem to assume that the Zeusling with a NK power is gonna be Town.
    Though we should be clear that, probably if either Zeusling did the kill just as the factional kill, it'd likely have similar flavortext

    We can presume the Town!vigilante wasn't voided, since Xi was voided. (She could be lying, but seems a foolish thing to lie about, as a Dionsyian could claim.)

    I feel like writing something like "how could this happen if any of these are true: both Zeus Town, both Zeus wolf, vortexer Town and vig Wolf, vortexer Wolf and vig Town"--but I'm a bit tired, and I think I'd like to hear from Apogee if the Town Network had planned to kill AV anyway before I put the effort in.

    I don't rule out that another person could have done the kill, but it seems unlikely.
    402, 406 back to good old NAI
    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    It is possible that the vig kiled AV and wolf!Xi planned to kill someone else, and she posted her post
    1) knowing it meant she was voided, and doing a fun move (and perhaps to get some WIFOM shielding since 'of course a wolf wouldn't admit that if they were the NKer')
    2) honestly not realizing it meant anything about a void, and just posting it

    Not saying I suspect Xi a ton, but, well, Elenna implicitly was noting a scenario that pegs Xi as the wolf, so drawing explicit attention to that.
    408 I like trying to work out the Xihirli thing, which I probably should pay more attention to.
    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    I did forget a third option
    3) Xi lied and said she was voided, for... reasons?
    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    Anybody have the time, sanity, and desire to try to examine every misspelling in this to see if a hidden clue is in here?
    Though I completely suspect this is just Xi having fun.

    Pending intel from Apogee, my top wolf suspects are Valmark and Xi.
    410, 420 NAI.



    More avatar confusion. Delightful. I think my problem here is that JeenLeen is a very mechanically-oriented player, so my default ďtreat mechanics as nullĒ is meaning Iím calling half their posts null. Iím leaning towards believing their claim, though. So maybe my ďwolf in the neutral claimsĒ was wrong?
    This one at least the very end portion was distorted for some reason. There might be other distortions elsewhere if so let me know.

  30. - Top - End - #450
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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Percy Jackson

    Quote Originally Posted by Valmark View Post
    ...when you say that you have no power do you mean that you have no night action? Because those are different things.

    And only if you have a way to prove it, really. Imagine if you were the Ares who kills their killers, for example.

    Also you are the one who basically went "People I'm a wolf" in public and literally nobody voted you so I'd be very worried if I didn't vote you at this time (you hadn't explicitely said 'I'm a wolf' but rather made a good and strong argument that basically meant you were 100% a wolf. And it was true!)

    Uh... Hey @Apogee1, what was it that made you doubt BCH (who claimed in public) over Snowblaze by the way? I don't think that was said (Sorry if it was).
    Because BCH had changed from an earlier claim and I didnít think there would be two children of Iris with different wincons, so I trusted the earlier one, not under pressure.

    That of course wasnít actually how it unfolded, but.

    Anyways I have a claim from the vig for it being their kill. They didnít claim that earlier, so didnít tell them to stay clear of AV.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    I intended to wait until I get a reply from Apogee to some questions, but it seems like he is busy today.

    I think your explanation for the fake claim is in line with what you have said before. Especially if Apogee can confirm he told you he knew about the existence of your real role.

    Your power feels a bit strange. It's a scry for Children of Zeus (this is something I would expect) but instead of killing, you only block them? I could imagine you are faking this part again, in order to appear as a lesser danger than you really are for a child of Zeus.

    All in all, I think you are really Neutral and I hope you will stand by your word to vote for town.
    However, I wonder why you assume that the lightning power is wolf, while the mystic power is town. Okay, hitting the seer looks quite bad, but how should the wolf team have known AV was the seer? There are two possibilities.
    Apogee or his partner is a wolf.
    It was random chance.

    Your other argument was, that Apogee knew your role existed and you think it's more likely for a wolf to receive this warning than a town player... this is not illogical, but it's not really convincing either. Which leads me to the following:
    I would love to know if the children of Dionysus received a hint that someone might watch them? If they did, it would both give points to Snows claim and be precedent for a role getting additional Intel (with was stated to be possible by gac) without needing to be a wolf.

    Now, one last question.
    Why should we believe you are not going to switch sides after you got the wolf child of Zeus killed? Killing a wolf is better done by Town, but killing a town is easier for a wolf.
    The child of Dionysus I am in contact with said they are not informed they are being hunted/protected.

    Iíve also received yet another neutral claim, but donít remember what it was. Let me check.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Itís an undescribed neutral. Donít really know how to handle that at this point with so many neuts being claimed.

    - - - Updated - - -

    The doctor is claiming that they did not save libroís life last night, so whatever ended the kill was not then. The child of dionysus roleblocked Xihirli, so thatís a possible kill stopped. There is also the possibility that the two overlapped naturally

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