A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2
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  1. - Top - End - #91
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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Percy Jackson

    We have skins, but our choices are only Playground Sand and Playground Sand Mobile.
    Spoiler: Quotes
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zar Peter View Post
    Supagoof took the most blows and incidentally took exactly the same damage Xihirli inflicted.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silent_Interim View Post
    Xihirli: Being a better target since 2015.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elenna View Post
    Xihirli, bastion of murder and betrayal.
    Quote Originally Posted by BasketOfPuppies View Post
    Wow I missed a lot today. So, kill Xihirli?
    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    Nobody else is gonna be right behind me, right now. Only Xihirli.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    If Xi and I agree some more, I will start to doubt my own alignment!
    Quote Originally Posted by flat_footed View Post
    I still prefer to see you as the dagger hanging over us all, Xi.

  2. - Top - End - #92
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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Percy Jackson

    Quote Originally Posted by Batcathat View Post
    You're correct. At least rogue_alchemist is voting for her too.
    Quote Originally Posted by rogue_alchemist View Post
    Yea as BatCatHat said, I am voting for Xi too.
    Thanks for the confirmation.
    Now I have to wonder if this was an honest mistake or some weird kind of conspiracy.
    Unless there are other, more significant votes are off as well, I tend to think it's an honest mistake. Anybody thinking otherwise?

  3. - Top - End - #93
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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Percy Jackson

    Okay guys. Some of you have been leaving mental notes and thoughts in your role QTs and someone just asked me if this is allowed. I want to confirm that it is allowed. I encourage it. It helps keep me entertained so I say go for it. Though I promise to try to remember how you think and use it when I play against you in future games. So that might be the only downside if you worry about that.


    Edit: also I have mentioned that I might be out of commission today because the doctors warned I might be but except for needing a nap, I'm already back to being present if anyone needs anything.
    Last edited by gac3; 2021-06-01 at 04:26 PM.

  4. - Top - End - #94
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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Percy Jackson

    After thinking through options, I'm inclined to trust Apogee's Demeter claim. Although I'd advise those with info-gathering roles to trust but verify - the fact that it'd largely be a stupid play for wolves because of how easy it is to check could explain why Apogee is working hard to be transparent, so as to convince people to not double-check without just saying that they shouldn't. Now, for game numbers!

    21 players. Probably 1 neutral? That leaves 20 for town/scum, so probably a 15/5 split? 16/4 feels too little, and while I could maybe see 14/6 if their powers are generally weak, I wouldn't bet on wolves having strong numbers and weak powers - that seems like setting up for disappointment. With 11 cabins with 2 powers each, we've probably got two representatives from most cabins. Some of those are gonna be wolves, but probably not two wolves from the same cabin for the most part. Let's see...

    Spoiler: Roles
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    Quote Originally Posted by gac3 View Post
    Zeus: As a child of Zeus you hold more power than the average demigod.
    • Mystical Might: You have a knack for manipulating the mist that helps hide the mythical monsters from mundane eyes. Each night, choose two people to target. Any action that targets one of your choices, will instead be used on the other.
    • Lightning Control: You can manipulate the pure electric power of your father. Each night you may choose one person to kill with your lightning.
    First power makes sense for scum, second power doesn't.

    Poseidon: You are the child of the god of the sea and King of Atlantis.
    • Healing Waters: You have learned that you can use water to heal yourself and others. Each night you may choose one person and they are immune to dying that night.
    • Big Reveal: Your dad both has your back and a dramatic streak. At any point during the game, you can ask the DM to reveal your role and faction to others. At the time of use, you may choose to have me announce it openly in the main thread or privately to up to two individuals in their role QT. (I will do this as soon as I see the request and am able. I cannot promise that if you make the request while I am asleep or at work that it will happen until after I complete said activity though I will try if possible.)
    First power is unlikely as a wolf. It's not a daybane, so it's not immunity to losing if they've got one, but even then, bane is much weaker in the hands of wolves than town, just because town is less likely to be throwing around NKs.

    Second power is not a wolf power in any universe.

    Demeter: Your mother is the queen of plants and grain.
    • Sibling: You begin the game with knowledge of another child of Demeter.
    • Sibling: You begin the game with knowledge of another child of Demeter.
    Never a wolf. If there were no demeter in-game and wolves knew that, I could see them claiming demeter as a safeclaim, but given the game size, it's almost a guarantee that there's demeters in game, and that means it's not a safeclaim cuz a counterclaim could easily come in.

    Ares: As a child of Ares, you are exceptionally skilled in battle.
    • Hard to Kill: You are exceptionally tough. The first time you would die, you don't.
    • Vicious Warrior: It is near impossible to escape battle with you unscathed. If you die, one person responsible is randomly killed in the process.
    Either of these could work as a wolf power.

    Athena: While skilled in combat, the children of Athena's most dangerous weapon is their agile mind.
    • Divine Deduction: Your mind is always moving as you keep an eye on those around you. Each night choose someone to watch and learn who their parent is.
    • Lookout: You are confident that you can catch the guilty patty in the act. Each night choose one person to target. You see anyone who targets your choice during the night.
    I'm unclear if the first power is track+devil, or just devil. Either way, it's useful to wolves. Second power (motion detector) is also useful to wolves.

    Apollo: Children of Apollo are some of the most diverse in powers because of his diverse list of domains.
    • Prophecy: With the approval of your father, you have limit access to his gift of prophecy to help find the culprits. Each night target one person and see their faction (town, neutral, wolf).
    • Smile like Sunshine: Children of Apollo are especially charming and have a way with words. Your vote counts as two when tabulating the result at the end of the day.
    First one is alignment scry, so useless to wolves...except for neutral-hunting, I suppose? I'd only expect this to be a wolf if scumteam is 6-man band.

    Second one is useful for town and wolves alike.

    Hephaestus: You have knack for invention and crafting, much like your father.
    • Scanner: You invented a scanner that lets you copy the abilities you see around you. Any power used on you gives you a single charge of that power to use on future nights.
    • Booster: You have invented a device to help boost people's natural powers. Each day choose someone to target. That night they will be given a boost to their power. (Night actions that change your target or prevent your action will influence your action the following day.)
    Either of these works well as a wolf power.

    Aphrodite: You have inherited some of your mother's beauty and charm.
    • Charmspeak: You have a supernatural talent for getting people to do what you want. Each night target one person. During the following day phase you will be able to change who that person is voting for.
    • Deceptive Appearance: You are skilled at getting people to see what you want them to see when they look at you. Each night you may choose to change either what alignment you scry as or who your parent is revealed as for roles that target you that night.
    Both of these feel like wolf powers.

    Hermes: The children of Hermes might not always be the most skilled in battle but often are some of the stealthiest and most dexterous.
    • Light of Foot: You are particularly stealthy and are able to follow people around without detection. Each night choose someone to track. You see who they target that night.
    • Strategic Placement: You are not a fighter. More a runner. Each night choose one person to hide behind. Anyone who targets you that night will instead target the person you hid behind. Be careful though, if they die in the night, you will too.
    This makes me inclined to think that the Athena power is just a devil power, since this is a track. I could see either of these as a wolf power.

    Dionysus: You can be quite a lot of fun at parties, able to induce drunkenness or madness among those around you.
    • Drunken Fun: Everyone is too stressed out and you just want to help them relax. Each night you can choose someone to help loosen up. They are unable to use their power that night and wake up with a hangover.
    • Induce Madness: You are able to change people's perceptions and intentions by inducing minor madness. Choose one person and redirect who their power targets that night.
    Both of these powers are pretty useful to wolves.

    Hades: You're connection with your father gives you special powers over the dead or access to the underworld.
    • Command Spirits: You have the ability to summon and control spirits. Each night choose one dead player and gain the use of their power for the night.
    • Highway to Hades: You know a secret path from camp to the underworld. You begin with access to the "Underworld" QT and may speak freely in the QT with the dead players. At any point in the game, you can choose to end this access in exchange for bringing one dead player back into the game.
    The first can work well as a wolf power. The second is problematic as a wolf power, but that's at least partially cuz it's just plain problematic. If there was a power I would expect to not be in the game, it's that second Hades one.


    Order of cabin suspicion, most to least:

    Ares
    Aphrodite
    Hermes
    Dionysus

    Athena
    Hephaestus
    Zeus

    Hades
    Apollo
    Poseidon

    Demeter

    My thoughts:
    1) There's no wolves in the blue section.
    2) There's not more than one wolf in the teal section.
    3) There's not more than two wolf in the orange section.
    4) There's at least two wolves in the dark red section.

    (incidentally, this sorta lines up with the lore - the top three have antagonist children in the original series, Dionysus and Athena themselves are kinda unfriendly, and the protagonist is a child of Poseidon.)
    Last edited by AvatarVecna; 2021-06-01 at 04:28 PM.


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  5. - Top - End - #95
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Percy Jackson

    Quote Originally Posted by gac3 View Post
    Okay guys. Some of you have been leaving mental notes and thoughts in your role QTs and someone just asked me if this is allowed. I want to confirm that it is allowed. I encourage it. It helps keep me entertained so I say go for it. Though I promise to try to remember how you think and use it when I play against you in future games. So that might be the only downside if you worry about that.


    Edit: also I have mentioned that I might be out of commission today because the doctors warned I might be but except for needing a nap, I'm already back to being present if anyone needs anything.
    Good to hear you are feeling well.

    I'll take the risk to give you more information about my trains if thought. I doubt it will be much worse than playing some games together.

  6. - Top - End - #96
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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Percy Jackson

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    (incidentally, this sorta lines up with the lore - the top three have antagonist children in the original series, Dionysus and Athena themselves are kinda unfriendly, and the protagonist is a child of Poseidon.)
    Spoiler: Zeus
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    And Zeus is a little **** with **** for a **** who **** all over the **** so much he should **** right to the bank while a thousand tiny ants eat his ****
    Spoiler: Quotes
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zar Peter View Post
    Supagoof took the most blows and incidentally took exactly the same damage Xihirli inflicted.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silent_Interim View Post
    Xihirli: Being a better target since 2015.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elenna View Post
    Xihirli, bastion of murder and betrayal.
    Quote Originally Posted by BasketOfPuppies View Post
    Wow I missed a lot today. So, kill Xihirli?
    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    Nobody else is gonna be right behind me, right now. Only Xihirli.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    If Xi and I agree some more, I will start to doubt my own alignment!
    Quote Originally Posted by flat_footed View Post
    I still prefer to see you as the dagger hanging over us all, Xi.

  7. - Top - End - #97
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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Percy Jackson

    So first thing's first, we aren't going to get much more from batcathat. I'm gonna rescind my vote on them because the only point voting them now is to lynch them. (Not saying they're not a wolf, but anyway.)

    But what I do want to do is put some pressure on AvatarVecna who has shown up and posted big long walls of so far obvious information. Everything she's put up has felt like a contribution without contribution.

    Can you put up any suspicions you have? (This is not meant as a serious lynch target yet, I just want more concrete present contribution from them.)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also can someone verify Xih's past actions because that lynch pleading is bloody weirding me out
    Last edited by bladescape; 2021-06-02 at 03:17 AM.
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  8. - Top - End - #98
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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Percy Jackson

    Quote Originally Posted by bladescape View Post
    So first thing's first, we aren't going to get much more from batcathat. I'm gonna rescind my vote on them because the only point voting them now is to lynch them. (Not saying they're not a wolf, but anyway.)

    But what I do want to do is put some pressure on AvatarVecna who has shown up and posted big long walls of so far obvious information. Everything she's put up has felt like a contribution without contribution.

    Can you put up any suspicions you have? (This is not meant as a serious lynch target yet, I just want more concrete present contribution from them.)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also can someone verify Xih's past actions because that lynch pleading is bloody weirding me out
    I'm cool with voting AvatarVecna, it's about time I moved my random vote to a more serious wagon.
    Last edited by AvatarVecna; 2021-06-02 at 11:47 AM.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Book Wombat View Post
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  9. - Top - End - #99
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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Percy Jackson

    Who the bloody hell popularised self-voting while I was out.
    "Trust bladescape, Shadow of Doubt,"




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  10. - Top - End - #100
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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Percy Jackson

    Quote Originally Posted by bladescape View Post
    Who the bloody hell popularised self-voting while I was out.
    idk about "popularized", but I've had a habit of self-voting at least once a game since before I started playing WW/Mafia on this site. I don't manage it every single game, and sometimes it works out better than other times.

    I'm working on getting a proper feel for players, but there's a lot of them, and more than a few share avatars, so I'm doing some ISOs to keep things straight, so it'll take awhile.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Spoiler: Batcathat ISO
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    Quote Originally Posted by Batcathat View Post
    Hmm. Not much to react to. I suppose I'll just go with the barely existing flow. AvatarVecna.
    Randvote. Null.

    Quote Originally Posted by Batcathat View Post
    To be fair, that's probably about the same amount of thought as everyone else put into their vote so far. Hell, probably more than me since I literally just copied the person before me. Do I really default to "When in doubt, copy someone else"? That doesn't feel great.
    Last bit feels weird, but not really able to put my finger on why.

    Quote Originally Posted by Batcathat View Post
    Is this meant to be a vote? If so, it should be in red.

    EDIT: Hmm. Pretty sure Shal's post had a name in it when I started replying. Disregard my post if it doesn't make any sense anymore.


    Quote Originally Posted by Batcathat View Post
    Not sure how I feel about having an identifiable style. Or that said style is apparently "follow the crowd". Can't really deny it though.

    While I'm sure changing my vote will make me look suspicious whether or not AV turns out to be a wolf, I think I'll poke someone inactive instead of piling onto her. Let's go with Totadileplayz who in my personal experience is a wolf at least half the time.
    Yeah okay I can't say I'm a fan of "I'm just following the crowd" protests. "I'm not leading this mob, I'm just lending it some more legitimacy" isn't exactly a stellar defense, it looks like somebody trying to take part in a mislynch without wanting to get blamed for taking part in a mislynch. On its own that's not really enough to lynch somebody normally, but it's as good a reason as any D1.

    Quote Originally Posted by Batcathat View Post
    All of a sudden I'm tied for the most votes. Not sure what I could say in my defense, other than that I've been acting pretty much identically to earlier games, I think.

    I sort of want to change my vote to one of the people voting for me but I can sort of see their point, so it's probably not the most valid stratergy (or the most mature reaction ).
    "I'd OMGUS vote somebody, except I know that looks bad, so I won't [winkyface]". Are you trying to look suspicious? Xihirli, somebody's copying your schtick!

    Quote Originally Posted by Batcathat View Post
    Even assuming you are a Child of Demeter, couldn't you and your "sibling" just as well be wolfy? There's nothing about that role being specifically town, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Batcathat View Post
    Huh. That's a good point. I suppose it could be a good power for the sheer mindfrakking of it all, but that does seem like an odd choice by gac, if that's the case.
    Quote Originally Posted by Batcathat View Post
    If you are telling the truth, I assume you'll be a prime target for the wolves. Is the idea that you set things up and take the bullet so the other Demeter kid can run things more or less in secret?
    From a more experienced player, I'd expect them to think through the Demeter claim privately before jumping right into questioning. A D1 mason claim is weird enough that you'd wanna give it some thought to think about what could be happening here and how you should react. I'm inclined to think this series of posts is gut reaction. I can see how some people might see this as immediately casting shade on the weird D1 mason claim, and from a more experienced wolf that's maybe what I'd expect (albeit more subtle than this), but given how new BCH is I'm inclined to think this is an excited townie digging into a claim they're not sure whether they should trust or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Batcathat View Post
    Is that based on general feeling or some specific evidence? I get that you don't want to reveal what evidence, if any, just curious if there is any. (Admittedly, I kinda want them to be untrustworthy since they're half the votes aganst me, but I do agree that they seem fairly towny so far1)

    On a sidenote, this game puts me in a pretty weird headspace. I was just grocery shopping and kept finding myself suspecting people around me and wondering what they thought of me.

    (1 Yes, yes, I'm sure that's what a wolf would say...)
    "Lol that makes me sound suspicious doesn't it, good thing I'm calling attention to it."

    I'm honestly trying to think of something more textbook "Too Wolfy To Be A Wolf" than literally saying "wait did I just do what scum would do? oh well lol", and I'm not coming up with much.

    Quote Originally Posted by Batcathat View Post
    Nothing solid, I'm afraid. Just a general feeling. At least JeenLee's behavior seems in line with how he acted in the last two games, when he was town. With Badescape it's not even that. So pretty much only gut feeling and me wanting to make it clear that I wasn't trying to accuse them by questioning Apogee's endorsement of them.
    I like that they don't seem to be backing down from their suspicion of Apogee just because town is pushing back against it. Townie points.

    Quote Originally Posted by Batcathat View Post
    I considered it, but saying things that might sound bad without lampshading it seemed suspicious as well so I figured I might as well go with my instinct and be snarky about it.



    Ah, just as in real life my inability to shut up is both a gift and a curse. Though probably more of a curse in this case, I can't imagine I'd be staring at four votes if I just stayed silent.



    I'm divided on this. On one hand, I kinda like it both for sounding reasonable and for not only being one of the prime candidates myself but also not really suspecting any of the other ones in particular, so lynching the wrong person seems likely.

    On the other hand, I agree with Jeen's reasoning for it seeming kinda shady (and not killing anyone seeming instinctively wrong).
    "I can't imagine I'd be staring at four votes if I just stayed silent."

    Thank you, I almost forgot that I haven't checked to see if we've got any inactives to poke.

    Quote Originally Posted by Batcathat View Post
    Well, I did talk about wanting to try to be wolf in the recruitment thread so my enthusiasm could be interpreted as wolfish. Though again my defense would be that tripping over myself and trying to talk nonstop is pretty much how I've been in every game, every other thread and pretty much life in general. I'm a cynic, but a very energic and rather happy one.
    Null. Feels like speaking freely, but doesn't really lean either way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Batcathat View Post
    Oh, I absolutely agree, I was just referring to how a lot of people seem to confuse "cynic" with "bitter" or "depressed", presumably the connotations you meant too?



    Hopefully I'll get a role like that in a future game. Apparently I could just be myself and kick everyone's ass the first day.

    Now I'm even worried seeming wolfier by being too resigned about getting lynched but hopefully I'll think of some good arguments by tomorrow (real-life tomorrow, not in-game tomorrow, it's getting late here). I suppose I could consider claiming but A) I can't really prove it, B) roles aren't connected to factions anyway and C) it might just make different people want to kill me for different reasons instead. Just thinking out loud, hopefully some wolf will do something really stupid and get all the votes so I don't actually have to count on my questionable charm and dubious strategies to survive...
    At least at this point, roleclaiming wouldn't do much to help, no.

    Quote Originally Posted by Batcathat View Post
    You're correct. At least rogue_alchemist is voting for her too.
    Null.


    Feeling kinda sketchy about all this. Slight wolflean, would be stronger if they were a more veteran player.
    Last edited by AvatarVecna; 2021-06-01 at 05:59 PM.


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  11. - Top - End - #101
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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Percy Jackson

    Quote Originally Posted by Valmark View Post
    I... Pulled my vote away because I'm not about to try and lynch someone who just claimed, feels like it'd set a bad precedent, but this does feel fishy as hell.

    I understand wanting to start a network but like you said there's no actual guarantee you/your partner/both (unlikely this one) are Town. This feels like a good way to set yourself (and/or your partner) up to be at the center of the network and exercise control on the information shared (or just know what people tell each other).
    Could be a wolf trying to throw some shade on the mason as an attempt to stop a town network? There were several people (including me) who suggested far-fetched ways Apogee could be a lying wolf, but basically everyone except Valmark agreed that it's much more likely Apogee was town. Kinda weird that Valmark wouldn't realize that.

    Valmark switching off Apogee:
    Quote Originally Posted by Valmark View Post
    And... Uhm. I honestly have no idea who to vote now. Guess I'll join on poking Book Wombat, hopefully it serves something.
    Could be a townie realizing they're wrong. Could definitely also be a wolf realizing that their attempt to throw shade has failed and quietly backing off in the hopes of not looking too suspicious. It feels kinda off to me that Valmark didn't acknowledge Apogee's response to the above post, or even mention whether or not he still suspects Apogee. Maybe a sign of a wolf that never suspected Apogee in the first place?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaoimhinTheCape View Post
    I haven't seen Batcat play as wolf yet so I don't know what is a wolf read and what is regular posting. Lampshading anything that might look bad feels wolf like to me but that's been pretty standard. On the other hand, Batcat has been engaging people in conversations and I like that.
    Agreed, the lampshading feels weird but also it's pretty in line with how batcathat has been posting in the last couple games. I'm pretty neutral on them right now. I'd be more suspicious if they were more experienced.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xihirli View Post
    I feel like the night is going to be a big event here in an all-PR game. We've got... a little more than three times the power roles firing in the night as the wolves? Honestly it might be best to go no lynch and let our numbers advantage get us gallons of info in the night.
    Yeah, I don't like this either. Town always has a numbers advantage over wolves at the start of the game, and yet in other all-PR games we've still decided to lynch D1. And I know Xi knows that, so what's up with bringing up this suggestion in this game, and not any other all-PR game?
    (Also, Xi calling to stop the bloodshed and violence is definitely weird. )

    Quote Originally Posted by Murska View Post
    I'd agree that Batcathat seems the most suspicious out of our top contenders today.
    Any particular reason? There's a few different reasons people have given for voting batcathat, I'm curious which of them you agree with.

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Elenna View Post
    Well, I did say I'd vote Valmark

    Might change that later though, I also don't really like the fast wagon on AV. But I don't want to vote Shal sine they're new, Murska started an early wagon last game as town, and I don't think the first or second voters ae really suspicious since they couldn't know it would take off. Also, it's AV, who is always a reasonable voting target
    So for now I'll just go with pushing the counterwagon on Valmark.
    This meandering post feels fishy to me. Feels like Elenna needs to feel justified in 1) voting who she said she'd vote, and 2) not voting me. That's strange, yeah?
    To clarify, I wasn't debating between voting for Valmark or you, I was debating between voting for Valmark versus voting for someone who voted for you, because your wagon sprang up suspiciously quickly.
    I guess I could have left off the second paragraph and just voted Valmark, but I wanted to flag that the wagon was weird. And then I had to explain why I was voting Valmark instead of pursuing that suspicion.

    Quote Originally Posted by bladescape View Post
    Also can someone verify Xih's past actions because that lynch pleading is bloody weirding me out
    Quote Originally Posted by bladescape View Post
    Who the bloody hell popularised self-voting while I was out.
    FWIW Xi trying to get lynched and AV self-voting are both pretty typical for them regardless of alignment. Not that I don't think Xi is suspicious, because I definitely do, but not because of the asking to be lynched.
    I wouldn't say self-voting is popularized, it's mostly just AV and occasionally Xi.

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    Thank you, I almost forgot that I haven't checked to see if we've got any inactives to poke.
    I think it's just Mornshine who's inactive now. But given the amount of activity that's happened so far, I think we can do better than "get rid of the inactive".

    ---

    So I'm basically debating between voting Valmark or Xihirli right now. And looking at the votecount, I'm pretty surprised that Xihirli has so few votes given what felt like several people voicing suspicion of her? Kinda makes me wonder if it's because her wolf teammates are holding out on voting her.

    I'm ... moderately certain that this is a correct votecount. Hopefully.

    Batcathat (5): Jeenleen, Bladescape, EmmyNecromancer, Zelphas, Murska
    Valmark (3): AvatarVecna, Xihirli
    AvatarVecna (2): Snowblaze, Shal06
    Rogue_Alchemist (2): Flat_Footed, BookWombat
    Totadileplayz (2): Batcathat, CaoimhinTheCape
    BookWombat (2): Libro, Valmark
    Xihirli (3): rogue_alchemist, Rogan, Elenna
    JeenLeen (1): Totadileplayz

    Not Voting (2): Apogee1, Mornshine

    Apogee, I guess you're waiting to vote until you get more information from QTs?
    Last edited by Elenna; 2021-06-02 at 10:17 AM.
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  12. - Top - End - #102
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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Percy Jackson

    Here's the thing. Town has won most of the games up to now just playing the same way boringly. I think we have enough town-wins under our belt that we can afford to try new things and get crazy.
    Spoiler: Quotes
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Zar Peter View Post
    Supagoof took the most blows and incidentally took exactly the same damage Xihirli inflicted.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silent_Interim View Post
    Xihirli: Being a better target since 2015.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elenna View Post
    Xihirli, bastion of murder and betrayal.
    Quote Originally Posted by BasketOfPuppies View Post
    Wow I missed a lot today. So, kill Xihirli?
    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    Nobody else is gonna be right behind me, right now. Only Xihirli.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    If Xi and I agree some more, I will start to doubt my own alignment!
    Quote Originally Posted by flat_footed View Post
    I still prefer to see you as the dagger hanging over us all, Xi.

  13. - Top - End - #103
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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Percy Jackson

    @Elenna to clarify, in the first post you quoted from me I had already took the vote off of Apogee1 (like I said in it). Or I took it off immediately after, not sure.

    I stayed for a bit without voting (if you check the vote counts you'll notice in some of them I was counted as not voting) then moved on Book Wombat.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also yeah, I definitely still suspect Apogee1, I've got no reason not too. I took the vote off because I didn't feel alright voting the only claim we have, but that doesn't mean I'm not suspicious.

    I didn't comment on the reply because what he said had already been said so it felt kinda pointless to add to it.
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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Percy Jackson

    Quote Originally Posted by gac3 View Post

    Spoiler: Roles
    Show
    I'm listing the names of the gods and goddess but all roles will actually be given the full title "Child of Zeus" or "Child of Athena".

    Zeus: As a child of Zeus you hold more power than the average demigod.
    • Mystical Might: You have a knack for manipulating the mist that helps hide the mythical monsters from mundane eyes. Each night, choose two people to target. Any action that targets one of your choices, will instead be used on the other.
    • Lightning Control: You can manipulate the pure electric power of your father. Each night you may choose one person to kill with your lightning.


    Poseidon: You are the child of the god of the sea and King of Atlantis.
    • Healing Waters: You have learned that you can use water to heal yourself and others. Each night you may choose one person and they are immune to dying that night.
    • Big Reveal: Your dad both has your back and a dramatic streak. At any point during the game, you can ask the DM to reveal your role and faction to others. At the time of use, you may choose to have me announce it openly in the main thread or privately to up to two individuals in their role QT. (I will do this as soon as I see the request and am able. I cannot promise that if you make the request while I am asleep or at work that it will happen until after I complete said activity though I will try if possible.)


    Demeter: Your mother is the queen of plants and grain.
    • Sibling: You begin the game with knowledge of another child of Demeter.
    • Sibling: You begin the game with knowledge of another child of Demeter.


    Ares: As a child of Ares, you are exceptionally skilled in battle.
    • Hard to Kill: You are exceptionally tough. The first time you would die, you don't.
    • Vicious Warrior: It is near impossible to escape battle with you unscathed. If you die, one person responsible is randomly killed in the process.


    Athena: While skilled in combat, the children of Athena's most dangerous weapon is their agile mind.
    • Divine Deduction: Your mind is always moving as you keep an eye on those around you. Each night choose someone to watch and learn who their parent is.
    • Lookout: You are confident that you can catch the guilty patty in the act. Each night choose one person to target. You see anyone who targets your choice during the night.


    Apollo: Children of Apollo are some of the most diverse in powers because of his diverse list of domains.
    • Prophecy: With the approval of your father, you have limit access to his gift of prophecy to help find the culprits. Each night target one person and see their faction (town, neutral, wolf).
    • Smile like Sunshine: Children of Apollo are especially charming and have a way with words. Your vote counts as two when tabulating the result at the end of the day.


    Hephaestus: You have knack for invention and crafting, much like your father.
    • Scanner: You invented a scanner that lets you copy the abilities you see around you. Any power used on you gives you a single charge of that power to use on future nights.
    • Booster: You have invented a device to help boost people's natural powers. Each day choose someone to target. That night they will be given a boost to their power. (Night actions that change your target or prevent your action will influence your action the following day.)


    Aphrodite: You have inherited some of your mother's beauty and charm.
    • Charmspeak: You have a supernatural talent for getting people to do what you want. Each night target one person. During the following day phase you will be able to change who that person is voting for.
    • Deceptive Appearance: You are skilled at getting people to see what you want them to see when they look at you. Each night you may choose to change either what alignment you scry as or who your parent is revealed as for roles that target you that night.


    Hermes: The children of Hermes might not always be the most skilled in battle but often are some of the stealthiest and most dexterous.
    • Light of Foot: You are particularly stealthy and are able to follow people around without detection. Each night choose someone to track. You see who they target that night.
    • Strategic Placement: You are not a fighter. More a runner. Each night choose one person to hide behind. Anyone who targets you that night will instead target the person you hid behind. Be careful though, if they die in the night, you will too.


    Dionysus: You can be quite a lot of fun at parties, able to induce drunkenness or madness among those around you.
    • Drunken Fun: Everyone is too stressed out and you just want to help them relax. Each night you can choose someone to help loosen up. They are unable to use their power that night and wake up with a hangover.
    • Induce Madness: You are able to change people's perceptions and intentions by inducing minor madness. Choose one person and redirect who their power targets that night.


    Hades: You're connection with your father gives you special powers over the dead or access to the underworld.
    • Command Spirits: You have the ability to summon and control spirits. Each night choose one dead player and gain the use of their power for the night.
    • Highway to Hades: You know a secret path from camp to the underworld. You begin with access to the "Underworld" QT and may speak freely in the QT with the dead players. At any point in the game, you can choose to end this access in exchange for bringing one dead player back into the game.


    Neutrals: I'm not goin to list all possible neutrals here. If we have enough people I will add special neutral roles who have their own power and win condition. Possible role titles include: Huntress of Artemis, Champion of Hera, Child of *Insert minor god*.

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    After thinking through options, I'm inclined to trust Apogee's Demeter claim. Although I'd advise those with info-gathering roles to trust but verify - the fact that it'd largely be a stupid play for wolves because of how easy it is to check could explain why Apogee is working hard to be transparent, so as to convince people to not double-check without just saying that they shouldn't. Now, for game numbers!
    I tend to agree here. The claim should be verified. Although the seer probability should only claim if he needs to counter the claim.

    21 players. Probably 1 neutral? That leaves 20 for town/scum, so probably a 15/5 split? 16/4 feels too little, and while I could maybe see 14/6 if their powers are generally weak, I wouldn't bet on wolves having strong numbers and weak powers - that seems like setting up for disappointment. With 11 cabins with 2 powers each, we've probably got two representatives from most cabins. Some of those are gonna be wolves, but probably not two wolves from the same cabin for the most part. Let's see...
    I think, there might be more than one neutral. 21 players is a lot. Plus per the roles description, neutrals will have their own powers and goals. This is probably more than the usual stay alive and/or kill everybody.
    Spoiler: Roles analysis
    Show

    ZEUS
    First power makes sense for scum, second power doesn't.
    I'm not sure how the rules usually handle the swapping power. Do you know you targeted someone else?
    If you don't, this could be used to trick everyone about Apogees claim and might help the wolves by getting the seer to claim. Swap Apogee with a wolf and there would be quite some damage to the town.

    POSEIDON
    First power is unlikely as a wolf. It's not a daybane, so it's not immunity to losing if they've got one, but even then, bane is much weaker in the hands of wolves than town, just because town is less likely to be throwing around NKs.

    Second power is not a wolf power in any universe.
    Nothing to add.

    DEMETER
    Never a wolf. If there were no demeter in-game and wolves knew that, I could see them claiming demeter as a safeclaim, but given the game size, it's almost a guarantee that there's demeters in game, and that means it's not a safeclaim cuz a counterclaim could easily come in.
    This seems like one of the weaker powers?
    I mean, free QTs for everyone, so the only advantage they have is knowing each other as town. This is useful and Apogee makes use of this role already, so my intuition might be wrong about the power of this ability...

    But if the wolves know these are not in play and they have the right abilities, this could be a real effective plot. Claim siblings, fake the role at night or redirect the powers.
    Of corse this plot requires a special knowledge for team wolf that was not mentioned before (knowing the role is not in the game)

    ARES
    Either of these could work as a wolf power.

    ATHENA
    I'm unclear if the first power is track+devil, or just devil. Either way, it's useful to wolves. Second power (motion detector) is also useful to wolves.


    APOLLO
    First one is alignment scry, so useless to wolves...except for neutral-hunting, I suppose? I'd only expect this to be a wolf if scumteam is 6-man band.

    Second one is useful for town and wolves alike.
    Nothing to add here.

    HEPHAESTUS
    Either of these works well as a wolf power.
    Anybody with the scanner would have a reason to draw night actions. However, a wolf would have to be careful, since I can't think of a non ridiculous way to draw the heat and survive it for a long time. So I tend to think the scanner would be town.

    APHRODITE
    Both of these feel like wolf powers.
    At first, I thought the deception power would be a great way to take being a sibling, but than I noticed it's either a wrong alignment or a wrong parent. So either way, it would end badly.
    The vote manipulation could be very funny (make a wolf kill a wolf) but I think it's more likely to be a wolf power.

    HERMES
    This makes me inclined to think that the Athena power is just a devil power, since this is a track. I could see either of these as a wolf power.
    I think, the placement power is more likely to be wolf than town. Wolf can hide from any info gathering powers, while a town player would risk pinging as wolf. And it does not protect vs killing powers. However it would make a wolf a kind of beast (kill the guy he was hidden behind)
    Tracking seems more like a town power, but no strong opinion here.

    DIONYSUS
    Both of these powers are pretty useful to wolves.
    My gut feeling is drinking is town, madness is wolf, but that's just a gut feeling.

    HADES
    The first can work well as a wolf power. The second is problematic as a wolf power, but that's at least partially cuz it's just plain problematic. If there was a power I would expect to not be in the game, it's that second Hades one.
    The first one can work just as well for town. So I would not discard this possibility.
    If the second ability is in the game and town aligned, use it on Gac night 1. He is town and I've got a feeling, he might know things nobody else does. He can tell us day 2 and the game is basically over. Dionysus might need to make him drunk for the rest of Gacs life though, to protect everybody from the smell
    I think, if this is in play, it would be more useful for town than wolf. A wolf would be an obvious target, while a townie could mean a second chance of keeping someone alive for one round or two.

    NEUTRALS
    Well, I think it's save to assume there is at least one neutral role. My guess would be two or even three.

    This means, between two and four roles are not in play.



    Order of cabin suspicion, most to least:

    Ares
    Aphrodite
    Hermes
    Dionysus

    Athena
    Hephaestus
    Zeus

    Hades
    Apollo
    Poseidon

    Demeter

    My thoughts:
    1) There's no wolves in the blue section.
    2) There's not more than one wolf in the teal section.
    3) There's not more than two wolf in the orange section.
    4) There's at least two wolves in the dark red section.

    (incidentally, this sorta lines up with the lore - the top three have antagonist children in the original series, Dionysus and Athena themselves are kinda unfriendly, and the protagonist is a child of Poseidon.)
    I really have to sleep now (2 in the morning in Europe) so I can not reply to these points.
    Might do so later.

    Might also add some more thoughts about the roles, who is in the game and at what side.


    Edit: I tend to trust Apogee. But I have to wonder his death would be more helpful than his life.
    A certain reveal without risk of outing a seer, plus his ally can continue his work, taking to persons he trusts in the QT Apogee sent.

    It's not enough to make me want him to die, but I had to get this off my head.
    Last edited by Rogan; 2021-06-01 at 07:18 PM. Reason: one more thought

  15. - Top - End - #105
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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Percy Jackson

    Spoiler: bladescape ISO
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by bladescape View Post
    You. I like you.

    Assuming Murska hasn't evolved too much since I last played, I'm not too bothered by his vote yet. He tends to push pressure on D1 to try and get more meaningful discussions than the random-ness that is traditional for Day 1. (This does not tell us anything of his side tbh)

    My (Very weak) wolfdar so far:
    Shal06
    EmmyNecromancer
    batcathat

    Reasons:
    Shal06 pushing where the flow goes, weak read but for newer players it's a common attempt to blend in with crowds.

    EmmyNecromancer went from no vote (no information provided) to wagon vote. Alternate wagon to main wagon.

    Batcathat has been wishy-washy from aggressive bandwagon to switching to someone random when the bandwagoning got called out.

    EDIT:
    Note that after this post I'm crashing asleep, I'll next be around in 8ish hours after a long rest
    Some decent points but nothing too concrete - makes sense for how early in the day it was made. Feels a bit more towny than scummy at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by bladescape View Post
    So first thing's first, we aren't going to get much more from batcathat. I'm gonna rescind my vote on them because the only point voting them now is to lynch them. (Not saying they're not a wolf, but anyway.)

    But what I do want to do is put some pressure on AvatarVecna who has shown up and posted big long walls of so far obvious information. Everything she's put up has felt like a contribution without contribution.

    Can you put up any suspicions you have? (This is not meant as a serious lynch target yet, I just want more concrete present contribution from them.)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also can someone verify Xih's past actions because that lynch pleading is bloody weirding me out
    It's a good and fair callout, even if my initial response was to joke by giving yet another thing to weird out over. Townie points.

    Quote Originally Posted by bladescape View Post
    Who the bloody hell popularised self-voting while I was out.
    Null. Legit annoyance but could come from either side.


    Slight town lean, but also I'm worried. Reading through the thread, I had the impression that bladescape was much more in the thick of things for some reason. There's a lot of mentions and replies, but very few actual posts from them. I don't necessarily think bladescape is a wolf trying to look busy without actually contributing much, but if they are they're doing a fantastic job of it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Spoiler: Book Wombat ISO
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Book Wombat View Post
    Whoops, almost missed the start since I thought it was on the 2nd, thanks for the network PM Redacted.
    Random vote goes to rogue_alchemist, going to read the thread a bit more thoroughly soon (probably).
    Null.

    Quote Originally Posted by Book Wombat View Post
    Its power reminds me of Zorc from the last game.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I skimmed through a bit, too lazy to look at it properly since I'm going to bed soon.
    "Sorry I'm being unhelpful" TWTBW fodder right here. Slight scum lean.


    Slight scum lean. BW is typically pretty low-activity, although what little we have does at least have something worth thinking about. It's very little, but it's more than I'm used to getting from the less-active players so I'll take it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    This isn't a point against Cao, I'm just addressing it now cuz I didn't think of it in the BCH ISO: looking skeptical for the sake of not looking like you know for a fact Apogee is telling the truth just makes you look suspicious. If you think there's a scheme going on, dig into it and unearth it, don't just hem and haw like "idk if I can trust them aaaaaaaaaa". Yeah, it's weird that a mason claimed D1 when not even leading a wagon, but doing nothing about it but make noises of suspicion does more to harm the case against Apogee than help.

    Spoiler: CaoimhinTheCape ISO
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by CaoimhinTheCape View Post
    Actually, I'm pretty sure Apogee1 is the first person who hasn't posted yet, alphabetically.




    Vote Count:

    AvatarVecna (3): Snowblaze, Murska, Shal06
    Apogee1 (2): Valmark, CaoimhinTheCape
    Rogue_Alchemist (1): Flat_Footed
    Valmark (3): AvatarVecna, Xihirli, Elenna
    Elenna (1): Rogue_Alchemist
    Batcathat (3): Jeenleen, Bladescape, EmmyNecromancer
    Totadileplayz (1): Batcathat
    Bladescape (1): Libro

    Not Voting (8): Apogee1, BookWombat, Mornshine, Rogan, Totadileplayz, Zelphas
    Vote counts used to be the classic "information without analysis" wolf move, and then Cao came along and did them constantly.

    It's good that the seeming-inconsistency was getting called out, but it's not like it was subtle that something was wrong, so no points for calling out the obvious mistake.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaoimhinTheCape View Post
    So, my post was to point out that Libro voted "the earliest person alphabetically" while conveniently skipping Apogee. Could have been a wolf conveniently avoiding a vote for his wolf buddy.

    Given Apogee's claim, I no longer suspect that's the case. Gonna remove my vote for now and think about where it's gonna go.
    I've already asked a question about this post and I'm still waiting on an answer.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaoimhinTheCape View Post
    There is the chance that the wolves know what roles are in the game and could have seen that Masons are not in the game. But as people have mentioned, that seems unlikely.
    I've addressed this outside the ISO so I'll leave it be. The post itself is null: at the point in the thread this post was made, I could see a townie putting effort into puzzling through any possible scheme, but I could see a wolf putting this much effort in as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaoimhinTheCape View Post
    Gonna do a cheap vote against Totadileplayz for now. If we have such a large game I'm more OK spending Day 1 with a vote on someone who hasn't posted yet, so we don't run into too many afk players going forward. I'm also not a huge fan of any of the wagons:


    The AvatarVecna wagon did build very quickly so there's a little worry that it was wolves jumping on a good wagon for them.

    Valmark's counterwagon seems to be for the sake of having someone else to vote. I didn't get any wolf vibes from his post so of the three that's the lest likely for me to get a vote.

    I haven't seen Batcat play as wolf yet so I don't know what is a wolf read and what is regular posting. Lampshading anything that might look bad feels wolf like to me but that's been pretty standard. On the other hand, Batcat has been engaging people in conversations and I like that.


    Vote Count:

    AvatarVecna (3): Snowblaze, Murska, Shal06
    Rogue_Alchemist (1): Flat_Footed
    Valmark (3): AvatarVecna, Xihirli, Elenna
    Elenna (1): Rogue_Alchemist
    Batcathat (4): Jeenleen, Bladescape, EmmyNecromancer, Zelphas
    Totadileplayz (2): Batcathat, CaoimhinTheCape
    Bladescape (1): Libro

    Not Voting (2): Apogee1, Valmark
    No Posts (4):BookWombat, Mornshine, Rogan, Totadileplayz
    I can't speak for the others but my valmark vote at the time was just early randvoting, not based on anything in particular. I'm also not really inclined to view the people that were voting me as less wolfy for it - I'm not saying they're necessarily wolfy for doing so, I'm just saying that "wolves wouldn't wagon somebody that early" isn't necessarily true, and it's especially not true if they're all voting somebody's who's a frequent target D1. If the votes on me had been a bit more spread out, it would barely be any more suspicious than usual, which makes it good cover for getting wolves all voting on one person D1. In a game this big, 4-6 people on one wagon D1 is death.


    Null, although that might change depending on how they react to some other things that have occurred.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Book Wombat View Post
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  16. - Top - End - #106
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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Percy Jackson

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    Reading through the thread, I had the impression that bladescape was much more in the thick of things for some reason. There's a lot of mentions and replies, but very few actual posts from them.
    It's called content. People interact with stuff and therefore my name pops up a lot. Or maybe I'm just that handsome.

    2nd:
    I don't like Cao. And I don't like AV defending or nullifying the potential points against him.

    Feel free to read through AV's ISO above to form your own opinions on it, but if you're going to call BookWombat a wolflean on two posts and negligible content it seems a little incongruous to then say a null on Cao.

    (The exception is if everyone agrees this is some meta about Cao I don't know, but right now we call that S U S)
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  17. - Top - End - #107
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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Percy Jackson

    Quote Originally Posted by bladescape View Post
    It's called content. People interact with stuff and therefore my name pops up a lot. Or maybe I'm just that handsome.

    2nd:
    I don't like Cao. And I don't like AV defending or nullifying the potential points against him.

    Feel free to read through AV's ISO above to form your own opinions on it, but if you're going to call BookWombat a wolflean on two posts and negligible content it seems a little incongruous to then say a null on Cao.

    (The exception is if everyone agrees this is some meta about Cao I don't know, but right now we call that S U S)
    Cao has wagon analysis and called somebody out on their actions not matching their words. Book Wombat has done basically nothing except something that looks slightly wolfy and then commented on how wolfy the thing they did looks. Cao has put forth 267 words of content to analyze (not counting the votecount stuff), while Book Wombat has put forth 63. I'm not really sure why you think they're comparable at all. Cao is most comparable to you: just a few posts, light analysis and contributions but nothing really solid either way, 271 words of content.

    Additionally, I'm not ignoring the points that have been raised against him. In point of fact, I'm one of the people with an unaddressed point raised against him that I'm waiting on an answer for, and that answer will probably affect my opinion of him. I'm just doing this analysis via ISOs, and doing stuff in alphabetical order, and haven't really had the opportunity to react to people calling him out. At least partially because except Batcathat, none of the ISOs I've done so far have very much in the way of content.

    (And that's not looking to change anytime soon. People seem to think this game has more activity than usual, when really it just has more players. There's waaaaaaay too many people who don't even have a half-dozen posts yet for my tastes, but I know that not everybody is as unfond of the "silent townie" approach as I am.)


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    Quote Originally Posted by Book Wombat View Post
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  18. - Top - End - #108
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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Percy Jackson

    I somehow missed the start of the thread, to be presented with four full pages.

    AV seems to be acting fairly in-character. Though, it's a bit early in the thread for self-voting and long analyses.

    Having read through them, Xihrili is incredibly suspicious. Her posts are just off, not so much in substance but in style. For example:

    Quote Originally Posted by Xihirli View Post
    Nooooo kill me I promise it's a good idea and won't blow up in your face
    Xi's grammar is usually better than this, and her tone is usually enthusiastic and borderline-suspicious. That's her whole schtick. At least, from the handful of games I've played with her. This post smacks of almost desperation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xihirli View Post
    Here's the thing. Town has won most of the games up to now just playing the same way boringly. I think we have enough town-wins under our belt that we can afford to try new things and get crazy.
    I also note the use of the word "we" in this post, something that's odd for Xi-- she tends to stay a bit aloof, in line with the lynch-pleading. Maybe an intentional wolf deception, maybe a slip of the tongue. And also subject to the grammar and style oddities.

    Unfortunately, I could see this discrepancy being the result of a Town role as a Wolf role, from what little I've seen of Xi. Nonetheless, she's still my strongest wolf-read in the thread so far.
    Last edited by MornShine; 2021-06-03 at 01:12 AM.
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  19. - Top - End - #109
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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Percy Jackson

    I vary my grammar! I don't have to obey your rules! OR YOU'RE RULES!
    Spoiler: Quotes
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Zar Peter View Post
    Supagoof took the most blows and incidentally took exactly the same damage Xihirli inflicted.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silent_Interim View Post
    Xihirli: Being a better target since 2015.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elenna View Post
    Xihirli, bastion of murder and betrayal.
    Quote Originally Posted by BasketOfPuppies View Post
    Wow I missed a lot today. So, kill Xihirli?
    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    Nobody else is gonna be right behind me, right now. Only Xihirli.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    If Xi and I agree some more, I will start to doubt my own alignment!
    Quote Originally Posted by flat_footed View Post
    I still prefer to see you as the dagger hanging over us all, Xi.

  20. - Top - End - #110
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Percy Jackson

    I haven't checked to confirm but I think at this point we not only have 21 players but all of them have posted during day one?

  21. - Top - End - #111
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Percy Jackson

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    Cao has wagon analysis and called somebody out on their actions not matching their words. Book Wombat has done basically nothing except something that looks slightly wolfy and then commented on how wolfy the thing they did looks. Cao has put forth 267 words of content to analyze (not counting the votecount stuff), while Book Wombat has put forth 63. I'm not really sure why you think they're comparable at all. Cao is most comparable to you: just a few posts, light analysis and contributions but nothing really solid either way, 271 words of content.

    Additionally, I'm not ignoring the points that have been raised against him. In point of fact, I'm one of the people with an unaddressed point raised against him that I'm waiting on an answer for, and that answer will probably affect my opinion of him. I'm just doing this analysis via ISOs, and doing stuff in alphabetical order, and haven't really had the opportunity to react to people calling him out. At least partially because except Batcathat, none of the ISOs I've done so far have very much in the way of content.

    (And that's not looking to change anytime soon. People seem to think this game has more activity than usual, when really it just has more players. There's waaaaaaay too many people who don't even have a half-dozen posts yet for my tastes, but I know that not everybody is as unfond of the "silent townie" approach as I am.)
    Let me elaborate for you.

    1. Number of words don't mean ****. Until it's substantial enough of content vs no content. Pre-400 word counts are, at best, misleading.

    2. I'll pay you that he pointed out one thing. I did kinda breeze over that one, so my bad.

    3. Pending his response, to be honest I dislike that play a lot from him in the first place.

    4. Thank you for the response, I was poking the bear to see how it reacted so that was a nice meaty response.


    Finally:
    I take some minor offense that you think my contribution quality is the same as Cao's. He has so far waffled on, made irrelevant votes, (Both times voting for people who were not near lynch contender.) made no strong arguments for anyone bar one minor note which could've been an easy throwaway, and provided null analysis. Particularly:
    Gonna do a cheap vote against Totadileplayz for now. If we have such a large game I'm more OK spending Day 1 with a vote on someone who hasn't posted yet, so we don't run into too many afk players going forward. I'm also not a huge fan of any of the wagons:


    The AvatarVecna wagon did build very quickly so there's a little worry that it was wolves jumping on a good wagon for them.

    Valmark's counterwagon seems to be for the sake of having someone else to vote. I didn't get any wolf vibes from his post so of the three that's the lest likely for me to get a vote.

    I haven't seen Batcat play as wolf yet so I don't know what is a wolf read and what is regular posting. Lampshading anything that might look bad feels wolf like to me but that's been pretty standard. On the other hand, Batcat has been engaging people in conversations and I like that.
    There's a decent chance that if Cao is wolf then one of AV/Valmark/Batcat is also wolf.


    (That being said, direct correlation to BookWombat was a little inaccurate of a statement on reflection. I was just incensed by seeing "null" on someone I thought obvious wolf-telling.)
    "Trust bladescape, Shadow of Doubt,"




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  22. - Top - End - #112
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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Percy Jackson

    Spoiler: Elenna ISO
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Elenna View Post
    Well, I did say I'd vote Valmark

    Might change that later though, I also don't really like the fast wagon on AV. But I don't want to vote Shal sine they're new, Murska started an early wagon last game as town, and I don't think the first or second voters ae really suspicious since they couldn't know it would take off. Also, it's AV, who is always a reasonable voting target
    So for now I'll just go with pushing the counterwagon on Valmark.
    I think I've put my finger on why this feels weird. A townie who said they'd vote Valmark would just vote Valmark - it's her first post, who cares, it'll get changed later. But when there's a big wagon on AV, and AV is voting Valmark already and nobody else is, putting your vote on Valmark is creating a counterwagon. That's why there's this hemming and hawwing to justify a vote she already said she'd probably cast. A townie wouldn't feel so inclined to care that hard about their first vote, but I could definitely see a wolf second-guessing themself in such a situation. Scum lean.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elenna View Post
    Oh, I missed batcathat moving their vote. I think that puts it 3-3 for AV and Valmark? I'm fine with tied wagons.

    Interesting that all three of these are three of the newest players... I'm currently pretty unsure of all of them, but it seems likely you're just picking up signs of inexperience rather than signs of wolfiness.
    While I don't think the thing being called out is too unreasonable (I think it's more just a veteran seeing newbs as wolfy than a wolf seeing newbs as easy mislynches), I appreciate the callout occurring. Slight town lean.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elenna View Post
    Yeah, I think this is the only realistic way Apogee's claim could be a lie. But I agree that wolf masons would be pretty unusual.

    I guess Apogee could also be lying and betting on there being no real masons? But that would be a pretty weird bet, with so many players it seems likely most roles have been used.
    This is some of the initial "can we trust the claim" discussion, so it gets a pass. There's stuff that happens later on that I kinda take issue with.

    ...

    ...oh boy, big reaction post. Let's split this up:

    Quote Originally Posted by Elenna View Post
    Could be a wolf trying to throw some shade on the mason as an attempt to stop a town network? There were several people (including me) who suggested far-fetched ways Apogee could be a lying wolf, but basically everyone except Valmark agreed that it's much more likely Apogee was town. Kinda weird that Valmark wouldn't realize that.

    Valmark switching off Apogee:

    Could be a townie realizing they're wrong. Could definitely also be a wolf realizing that their attempt to throw shade has failed and quietly backing off in the hopes of not looking too suspicious. It feels kinda off to me that Valmark didn't acknowledge Apogee's response to the above post, or even mention whether or not he still suspects Apogee. Maybe a sign of a wolf that never suspected Apogee in the first place?
    I definitely agree that it looks like Valmark is being skeptical for the sake of looking skeptical. I'll discuss that more in Valmark's ISO, but for now I'll say that I like this callout. Towniepoints.

    Agreed, the lampshading feels weird but also it's pretty in line with how batcathat has been posting in the last couple games. I'm pretty neutral on them right now. I'd be more suspicious if they were more experienced.
    Null, easy to just agree and move on.

    Yeah, I don't like this either. Town always has a numbers advantage over wolves at the start of the game, and yet in other all-PR games we've still decided to lynch D1. And I know Xi knows that, so what's up with bringing up this suggestion in this game, and not any other all-PR game?
    (Also, Xi calling to stop the bloodshed and violence is definitely weird. )
    On the one hand I do think it's kinda out of character for Xi. On the other hand, she did get some nice satisfying bloodshed last night...hrm...

    ...oh, null. Elenna is familiar enough with Xihirli to find this worth calling out regardless of her own alignment.

    Any particular reason? There's a few different reasons people have given for voting batcathat, I'm curious which of them you agree with.
    Null. I guess it's sorta a callout, asking Murska to elaborate on his votes, but Elenna should know better than to think it'll work. He'll explain himself when he's solved the game from the grave D2 good and ready.

    To clarify, I wasn't debating between voting for Valmark or you, I was debating between voting for Valmark versus voting for someone who voted for you, because your wagon sprang up suspiciously quickly.
    I guess I could have left off the second paragraph and just voted Valmark, but I wanted to flag that the wagon was weird. And then I had to explain why I was voting Valmark instead of pursuing that suspicion.
    It's a reasonable explanation, but my reading in this ISO feels more correct.

    FWIW Xi trying to get lynched and AV self-voting are both pretty typical for them regardless of alignment. Not that I don't think Xi is suspicious, because I definitely do, but not because of the asking to be lynched.
    I wouldn't say self-voting is popularized, it's mostly just AV and occasionally Xi.
    Null, although I appreciate you vouching for me.


    I think it's just Mornshine who's inactive now. But given the amount of activity that's happened so far, I think we can do better than "get rid of the inactive".
    Yeah, it's pleasantly surprising to see a game full of people who said they'd participate and then actually did.

    So I'm basically debating between voting Valmark or Xihirli right now. And looking at the votecount, I'm pretty surprised that Xihirli has so few votes given what felt like several people voicing suspicion of her? Kinda makes me wonder if it's because her wolf teammates are holding out on voting her.
    Seems like a stretch based on basically nothing? I mean also there were a few people voting Xihirli anyway. Not sure what to make of this.


    Generally, slight townie lean, but the first post still feels really sketchy to me. It might just be first impression coloring my overall opinion, but I think it's plausible that Elenna is a veteran wolf who stumbled a bit in her first post and then got into a proper rhythm as a good little pretend-townie.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Spoiler: EmmyNecromancer ISO
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by EmmyNecromancer View Post
    Not enough evidence, since this is the first day, but I'll skip.
    Skipping is bad, but she's new so hrmm...

    Quote Originally Posted by EmmyNecromancer View Post
    I'm going to disagree. Apogee1 needs more attention nowadays.

    I'm honestly not sure who to vote so I chose randomly.
    Randvotes are all the rage ITP. Null.

    Quote Originally Posted by EmmyNecromancer View Post
    Well, my usual inclination is to skip voting the first day until we find any information during the night. This has been how I have been voting in Forum Werewolf Games, and Town of Salem, since I started. After all, the most information is found during the night, and we might lynch an innocent villager instead, for seemingly no reason.

    Bladescape does make a good point about voting batcathat, so I'm voting them instead.
    I've already responded to this, although I think I need to walk back part of it: I'm forgiving of this attitude in a new player, but somebody who's played a good bit of forum WW/Mafia should really know better. Statistically speaking, "no vote D1" is a bad move, even if for multiple reasons it has the lowest chance of all lynches to catch a wolf. Better to take the risk than to sit and do nothing. We have first move advantage, don't give it up for no reason.

    Quote Originally Posted by EmmyNecromancer View Post
    Current Votecount as of the time I'm posting this...
    AvatarVecna (3): Snowblaze, Murska, Shal06
    Valmark (3): AvatarVecna, Xihilri, Elenna
    Batcathat (3): Jeenleen, Bladescape, EmmyNecromancer
    Apogee1 (1): CaoimhinTheCape
    Rogue_Alchemist (1): Flat-Footed
    Elenna (1): Rogue_Alchemist
    Totadileplayz (1): Batcathat
    Bladescape (1): Libro
    ...okay so I mentioned that Cao always does votecounts, but it's always because Cao was posting something else and gathers a votecount to accompany his normal post as well. A votecount with nothing else isn't very helpful.

    Quote Originally Posted by EmmyNecromancer View Post
    I need an update on that vote count.
    Batcathat (5): Jeenleen, Bladescape, EmmyNecromancer, Zelphas, Murska
    Valmark (3): AvatarVecna, Xihilri, Elenna
    AvatarVecna (2): Snowblaze, Shal06
    Totadileplayz (2): Batcathat, CaoimhinTheCape
    Rogue_Alchemist (2): Flat-Footed, BookWombat
    BookWombat (1): Libro
    Jeenleen (1): Totadileplayz
    Mornshine (1): Valmark
    Xihirli (1): Rogan

    Well, I don't think there's a reason for me to change my vote, as that might make me a bit suspicious.
    ...see I thought it couldn't look worse than a bare votecount, and then you add a "I'd change my vote but it would make me look suspicious".


    Slight wolf lean.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Spoiler: flat_footed ISO
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by flat_footed View Post
    In their defense, it will substantially limit our QT count.

    Rogue_Alchemist
    , there can only be one!
    Null, D1 randvote.


    Null. If it were somebody else, a single bare post would make me suspect the person is trying to fly under the radar, but FF is a mod so they're probably just busy. As always, I'd still like to see more content from them.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Spoiler: JeenLeen ISO
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    A random or RNG vote on AV makes sense early day. Harmless early D1 poke.
    A second vote so quick...
    A third vote... seems very aggressive and unusual.

    Murska died so early last game, I'll go with Batcathat.
    Just this seems odd so early D1. Yeah, we eventually need a wagon to get real discussion going, but usually we have more votes first.
    On the other hand, might be nothing. This seems in line with Batcathat's style, and Murska pushed for a wagon earlier than I would have thought last game and it helped foster discussion.



    A fair counterpoint

    - - - Updated - - -



    Note: this vote happened after I wrote the above.
    Not sure if Shad06 is a new to this subforum or not, but we generally don't lynch new players D1... so I'll just leave a 4th vote so early out of my thoughts for now.
    I kinda get the logic here, but I don't like it. JeenLeen smells something wrong with the AV wagon and wants to vote one of the people on it. His options are two recently-returned veterans, one utterly new player, and one with just a few games under their belt. BCH wasn't picked for being the most suspicious of the people on the AV wagon, but for...let's call it "ww/mafia forum etiquette". It could be a townie playing by etiquette, or it could be a wolf who wants to lynch the person on that wagon least likely to result in backlash on the wolf.

    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    1) it's likely the Children of Demeter are in the game, given the high number of players
    2) it seems unlikely this Role would be wolf, though not impossible. If wolf, they basically have no power, which seems really weak for two wolves to be powerless

    So I'm willing to trust him. It could be a wolf gambit, but such seems unlikely.
    If we have a seer (quite likely given the player count), I lean that they check him just in case. Also. that our tracker/watcher (whichever sees who targets the person they target) look at Apogee.
    The former helps build trust; if Apogee scries Town, the seer can claim to Apogee privately and help build out the trusted network. The latter might might verify a baner (if he gets baned) or a wolf (if he gets NKed), helping either strengthen the Town network or find a wolf. But I understand the seer might prefer to look at a less trustworthy target OR be afraid that the tracker/watcher is a wolf and might be targeting Apogee to try to find power-roles.
    In other words, this is a suggestion for night actions, but it's not perfect by any means and no criticism if folk choose differently. Or maybe this is all WIFOM to make the wolves sweat when choosing targets tonight.

    On the other hand, I am an overly-paranoid person, so...
    Thought I don't believe it, I could see this as a "wolf power" in that it is powerful to safely claim being Children of Demeter. I still doubt it, and it goes real bad for the other one once one dies and flips wolf...
    Also, if there are a high number of wolves, I could see one sacrificing themself in a gambit like this to gain significant intel.
    Again, not really believing these, but feel like it's good to throw it out there.

    There's also the (I think unlikely) possibility that a wolf!Demeter has a 'side power' of their sibling being told both are Town... but I'd like to assume gac3 isn't lying to them. Stilll, Other Child of Demeter, you might want to ask in your QT just to verify.
    I can appreciate the effort being put in to think through possible schemes here. And as fun as it is initially, I don't think gac would pull a town/wolf mason combo, that kinda thing tends to upset people in my experience. >.>

    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    Xi is calling for calm and rational gathering of data, as opposed to shedding blood.
    I'm not sure what to make of it, but it sounds really off.

    She has a fair point, but I think lynching somebody is still a good move due to the info it yields. I admit I haven't been in a game this big before, so maybe the potential info-gathering is worthwhile... but just this sounds really odd based on what I've heard in every other mafia game.
    On the other hand, it doesn't feel particularly wolfish. The wolves want us to mislynch someone D1. So, the only reason a wolf would argue for no-lynch is if the major wagons are wolves, but doing so puts the target on herself later on and seems a bad move. Unless it's so non-wolfish it is wolfish, but those are the WIFOM spirals. On a third hand, I could see Xi doing a bold wolf move like this, even if it doesn't seem to be something a wolf would want.

    In short, this sounds weird in general, and more than usual when coming from Xi. But not necessarily wolf-weird. Maybe some sort of neutral with an odd win-con?
    No lynch D1 is a win for wolves too - it means one less kill to analyze, it means arguments to lynch this person vs that person take longer for us to get to analyze. D1, especially a D1 that's going like today has gone, is a goldmine of information to be untapped, and skipping the vote delays that information being available. Every third post or something like that has speculation on what this or that could mean, but a lynch gives us concrete information to build theories around, rather than pure theoretical conjecture.

    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    I decided I should've just straight-forward asked her: Xi, what's up with not trying to kill people?



    First sentence sounds a touch defensive for a townie. But it's reasonable given some votes piling up on him.
    Second sentence... could be simply stating a fact, but also feels like a wolf perhaps subtly persuading the baner to do what they want? Or Townie trying to manipulate the wolves.
    Third sentence: no real bother by a vote on me. But it seems a good cover for a wolf trying to vote without making waves.

    In short: seems kinda wolfish, but... well, I generally get a wolfish vibe from totaldile even when he's Town, so I don't put much by it. I'm still feeling comfortable keeping my vote on Batcathat.
    Solid reaction to tot's post, and I like just asking Xi outright even if it's not really a lean either way. Slight townlean for the tot stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    I am making this post primarily to quote this out of context for how funny it sounds.
    But I'm sympathetic to the other points Batcathat makes. I often find it tempting to say something, only to think it'll sound wolfish, and that's regardless of my alignment. It's hard to know how to read a lampshading, but I could see it coming from a wolf or a townie. Though generally the meta is to take such as wolfy.



    No problem. I've had that problem myself with folk with similar icons, even sometimes with Cao.
    Townie's and wolves alike are capable of moves that make them look wolfish. The difference is, "don't look wolfy" isn't a townie's top priority, a townie's top priority is catching wolves, and this sometimes means that they do something wolfy because they weren't thinking about controlling their image. For a wolf, "dont look wolfy" is top priority, so when they include something in a post that looks wolfy, they can either remove it (which makes the post flow differently than it did when they originally typed it up), or they can leave in the wolfy-looking thing. A simple second draft of the post would do wonders for many a wolf, so that their post flows properly while excluding or dodging around the wolfy thing their first draft did, but people are lazy by default so it's either delete it and make the post read weirder, or lampshade the wolfiness.

    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    I meant to make this joke/comment during the Yugioh game, but every time I see "Book Wombat" I think of the Yugioh card "Des Wombat".
    One of my friends loved to run burn decks, so Des Wombat was a favorite side deck card for me and my other friends who played against him.
    Null.


    Null read overall. There's a few things I like, and there's a few that rub me the wrong way.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Spoiler: Libro ISO
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Libro View Post
    Bladescape, what say ye?
    poking first person who hasn't posted yet, alphabetically



    Majority vote at end of day will be lynched. At this point Avatar Vecna has the most votes and is in the hot seat.

    If votes are tied, gac3 has decided to resolve it via coinflip.
    This got called out by Cao for inconsistency.

    Quote Originally Posted by Libro View Post
    Honest mistake on my part. My brain went straight to AV and skipped over them.

    Moving on to poke BookWombat
    After replying to the callout with a very basic "oops" response, Libro disappears.


    Urgh. Low activity, but that's Libro for you. Null in the way I don't particularly like, slight wolf lean I guess but it's probably just my bias against low-activity playstyles.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Spoiler: MornShine ISO
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by MornShine View Post
    I somehow missed the start of the thread, to be presented with four full pages.

    AV seems to be acting fairly in-character. Though, it's a bit early in the thread for self-voting and long analyses.

    Having read through them, Xihrili is incredibly suspicious. Her posts are just off, not so much in substance but in style. For example:



    Xi's grammar is usually better than this, and her tone is usually enthusiastic and borderline-suspicious. That's her whole schtick. At least, from the handful of games I've played with her. This post smacks of almost desperation.



    I also note the use of the word "we" in this post, something that's odd for Xi-- she tends to stay a bit aloof, in line with the lynch-pleading. Maybe an intentional wolf deception, maybe a slip of the tongue. And also subject to the grammar and style oddities.

    Unfortunately, I could see this discrepancy being the result of a Town role as a Wolf role, from what little I've seen of Xi. Nonetheless, she's still my strongest wolf-read in the thread so far.
    I've started "early" because there's a lot of posts to dig through despite how we're like halfway through D1. I honestly wish people were posting even more, but them's the shakes.

    I appreciate that he's come into the thread with thoughts on things going on rather than just dropping a randvote before leaving to analyze. I can't say I've really seen a grammar analysis before - of course, I'm also not really sure this is all that different from Xihirli's usual typing style (even if the tone is a bit less bloodsoaked than usual). I can't say I necessarily agree with the conclusion, but I like the direction the post is going in, I have good feelings about MornShine.


    Slight townlean, marred only by a lack of activity that I'm hoping will be soon rectified.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Spoiler: Murska ISO
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Murska View Post
    We're murdering AvatarVecna? Sounds good.
    Randvote or pressure vote, who can say.

    Quote Originally Posted by Murska View Post
    I'd agree that Batcathat seems the most suspicious out of our top contenders today.
    Not Murska, not until he's solved the game from the grave, that's for sure.


    Null. I got exactly what I expected from this ISO: nothing to go on whatsoever either way.
    Last edited by AvatarVecna; 2021-06-02 at 12:09 AM.


    Currently Recruiting WW/Mafia: nothing currently.

    Avatar by AsteriskAmp

    Aspiring optimizers can try their luck in Zinc Saucier XXXIX: Hoist The Colors High

    Quote Originally Posted by Book Wombat View Post
    It's always AvatarVecna time.

  23. - Top - End - #113
    Halfling in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Percy Jackson

    Overall, I do not feel confident to read anyone based on a total of 3 games, I Trust Apogee, and that's about my only town-read right now. Ultimately I can not see The Wolves trying to attempt it as it sacrifices a wolf, and people are dis-incentivised to try to reveal the roles day 1. Ultimately all that means is that there will be a focus on them. Possible neutral that somehow knew the demeter cabin wasn't in the game? Maybe, overall I believe it's just best to trust it.

    Another contestant? Bookwombat he's as others have pointed out basically just did I did a wolfy play, let me point out I made a wolfy play. Then be quiet for the rest of the game. While Batcathat, and Xihirli are weird this game, I don't see it as particularly wolfy weird. Bookwombat.

    There aren't even any real plays I can point out logistical problems with as everything seems to make sense. So, can't point at someone there, no one to bounce ideas off of either. So... Yeah. Guess I'm voting Bookwombat.
    Last edited by totadileplayz; 2021-06-03 at 12:32 AM.

  24. - Top - End - #114
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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Percy Jackson

    Morning. I see I missed a lot. Vaguely caught-up-ish and feeling like I need to skim through ISOs to get a firm grip on the game. In the meantime, since I donít feel like voting for the current wagons right now, letís see what happens if I vote for CaoimhinTheCape.
    Last edited by Snowblaze; 2021-06-03 at 09:22 AM.
    I have returned.

    Werewolf games won: 8
    Werewolf games lost: 5
    Games as town: 8
    Games as neutral: 2
    Games as wolf: 3
    Games narrated: 1
    Deaths: 6

    I have no clue what Iím doing, but you still shouldn't trust me.

    Extended Signature

  25. - Top - End - #115
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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Percy Jackson

    Spoiler: Rogan ISO
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    Hello everybody!
    Since I'm late to the party, I don't think I can do like I hinted in the recruitment thread (when in doubt, kill AV).

    No, seems like I have to actually find some reasons for my vote.



    Now, this is an interesting post.
    I can see the logic. In fact, I tend to agree with it. We have so many powers, a night will yield lots of information. Plus there is likely one beast in the game, so a lynch could result in two deaths.
    On the other hand, it seems a strange plan coming from Xi. At least I've got this impression from the game I had read.

    I think, I will vote for Xi now, but I would be very much willing to go for no lynch today.
    As before, I'm not fond of any argument to skip the D1 lynch, and this one providing additional reasons to do so is striking me badly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    Thanks for the hint. Changed the spell checker of my smartphone to AE (or simplified English)
    Hidden text with no meaning
    Now, could you please tell me why I still think I'm about to make a mistake by voting for you, Xi? Please?!
    Null, nothing to indicate alignment here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    Could you check your count again?
    I could swear I'm not the only one voting for Xi
    I would like to avoid counting every vote while I'm only online from the smartphone.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    Thanks for the confirmation.
    Now I have to wonder if this was an honest mistake or some weird kind of conspiracy.
    Unless there are other, more significant votes are off as well, I tend to think it's an honest mistake. Anybody thinking otherwise?
    I like calling out mistakes in the votecount. It gives good reason to look at the people tabulating the votes, to see if it looks like they're trying to skew public perception of the lynch.

    ...

    ...next one is big, so let's cut down to the parts I wanna address.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    This seems like one of the weaker powers?
    I mean, free QTs for everyone, so the only advantage they have is knowing each other as town. This is useful and Apogee makes use of this role already, so my intuition might be wrong about the power of this ability...

    But if the wolves know these are not in play and they have the right abilities, this could be a real effective plot. Claim siblings, fake the role at night or redirect the powers.
    Of corse this plot requires a special knowledge for team wolf that was not mentioned before (knowing the role is not in the game)

    ...

    ...

    ...

    Edit: I tend to trust Apogee. But I have to wonder his death would be more helpful than his life.
    A certain reveal without risk of outing a seer, plus his ally can continue his work, taking to persons he trusts in the QT Apogee sent.

    It's not enough to make me want him to die, but I had to get this off my head.
    Before I go off on my enormous tangent about Apogee, I'll just say that I'm not fond of the shade being cast at this point. It's already been discussed to death. The situations where this is a fakeclaim are either exceedingly unlikely or extremely easy to check/counterclaim - in particular, a counterclaim is a good idea for the reasons I'm about to go into. At this point, if you're questioning the claim, you need to present a plausible reason for doing so - a scheme or scenario that hasn't been considered. This hand-wringing "I wanna trust it but idk if wolves had the right power combo this could hand them the game" and not specifying what that "nightmare combo nobody else has considered" is, just looks scummy.

    Spoiler: My Thoughts On Apogee
    Show
    "his death would be more helpful than his life" IME you are correct. Masons + QT Spam = Boring Town Win. Here's the order of events:

    1) Mason!Apogee publicly reveals D1, makes QTs with absolutely everybody. Apogee shares these links in the mason chat.

    2) Apogee is murdered in the night. Nobody scried him, nobody watched him, nobody baned him. Only a wolf targeted him, and nobody was tracking that wolf. It's a complete mystery who performed the kill. Apogee is revealed as a townie and a mason, and their mason buddy is still both alive and anonymous.

    3) The other Mason logs into QT with a pseudonym (ie "Child Of Demeter") and proceeds to make contact through all the QT links they have from the mason chat.

    4) Every true townie gives an honest claim and conspires with the mason to catch the wolves. The mason knows the most and is demonstrably trustworthy, so it's best if they pick the lynch and the night targets as part of their larger scheme to catch wolves not obeying.

    At this point, the game balance has shifted dramatically in town's favor. The mason doesn't know which claims they can trust, but all townies know they can trust the mason even if they don't know who the mason is.

    The wolves have to decide between claiming their real roles or fakeclaiming something else. If they fakeclaim, it's easier to catch them not obeying mason instructions because they're incapable of obeying mason instructions - and even with three neutrals, there's probably five wolves, which means there aren't enough fakeclaims to go around, somebody is going to claim something that somebody else has claimed, and that will get announced by the mason via some other player (ie "mason says that these two people have both claimed to be the Ares with the survival power. Let's test that, shall we?"). Final fakeclaim option is some nebulous neutral, but there can only be so many of those: even if I'm correct and there's only one neutral in the game, if all the wolves claim neutral, the mason will smell rats. You could maybe get away with two neutral claims, if I'm correct and there's only one real neutral in play - but I might be wrong, and even a single neutral fakeclaim by a wolf will result in four neutral claims made to the mason, which still means a rattish smell. Fakeclaiming is a great way to get caught either immediately or shortly.

    If they give a true claim, this at least gives them the ability to obey (even if they don't want to), and it means their claims shouldn't contradict anybody elses, but it also puts their night actions in control of the network or they risk getting caught disobeying. It also means that they get analyzed a bit based on how useful their power would be as a wolf vs as a townie; there's several powers wolves probably don't have, and a few that they probably do have, and having one of those "looks like a wolf power" powers is gonna put extra attention on them. This, incidentally, is why analyzing the roles to see which make more sense as town powers or wolf powers is useful information - it gives the mason something to think about when they're getting claims post-apogee-murder.

    Wolf priorities at this point have shifted to include a few things:

    1) Don't let Apogee die, and cast shade on the mason claim so that people aren't as likely to claim to him until he dies.
    2) In case Apogee dies, figure out how we're gonna claim to the anonymous mason.
    2a) If fakeclaiming, have one or two claim neutral, and the others claim roles that are hopefully not present and not easily provable.
    2b) If realclaiming, make sure to cast shade on anybody trying to analyze which powers are more or less likely to be wolves, like calling out the people who did it as wasting time with useless information with the intent to look more helpful than they really are.



    Per the wolf priorities, villager priorities also shift slightly. The weirdest shift is definitely that it's probably in our best interest to kill Apogee unless we're pretty sure we've caught a wolf today: the sooner we can confirm Apogee as mason, the sooner we can get the ball rolling on that super network.

    Of course, all of that is the upside of this strategy. Now we get to the downside, which is that it's anti-fun. It's not fun for Apogee, who did the right thing and gets killed for it by town. It's not for for Apogee's mason buddy, who now has to control all the powers in the game, while figuring out how to test players for disobedience/scumminess, while not accidentally revealing themselves to wolves in any of a number of ways. It's not fun for wolves, who now have to focus all their effort on fooling the mason long enough to kill the mason before the mason finds somebody they can absolutely trust to hand the network to in the event of their death. It's not fun for the rest of town, whose optimal strategy is to allow themselves to be led around by the nose by an anonymous poster, while doing as much as possible to obfuscate who that mason could be so that they don't accidentally give the game away to any wolves they're talking to.

    You have analysis? Share that privately with the mason, but otherwise keep it to yourself. You have a scheme to pull? It better focus around taking out the mason. You've got a neutral goal and don't wanna get ganked? Better kowtow to the mason. The entire game shifts to focus around one player. It's optimal play for town, but it's not really fun. And the game can shift to this so quickly when it's like this: if the masons didn't pull this trick, then the game would take place 90% in QTs as players start privately talking with all other players, webs of links connecting everyone to everyone while they compare notes on who seems to be changing their suspicions depending on who they're talking to. It's all this exciting analysis...and then one of the masons dies anyway, an anonymous person shows up in that mason's chats, and now it's back to the boring version.


    Anybody with the scanner would have a reason to draw night actions. However, a wolf would have to be careful, since I can't think of a non ridiculous way to draw the heat and survive it for a long time. So I tend to think the scanner would be town.
    There's enough powers that aren't scries or kills that I could still see a scanner as a wolf. If you targeted AvatarVecna with the kill, and Murska died, and you know that you were targeted by Xihirli, you now know Xihirli has some kinda power that swaps targets. That's useful information that doesn't really put you at risk. Additionally, if you're fine going out in a blaze of glory, you could do something like claim wolf at the last second of the day, really play up your wolfiness, and then watch the power targeting come in. It's unlikely the vig is going to shoot you over that (it could be a gambit, for all they know), but you'll at least get a few people targeting you that night with info powers, and that gives you a shortlist to hand to your wolf buddies of "these people might be seers, kill them".

    Lots of options.


    Slight scum lean. There's some stuff I like here, but some of it really rubs me the wrong way.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Spoiler: rogue_alchemist ISO
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by rogue_alchemist View Post
    IF you mean skip for this one post, that is fine, but the meta on this forum is to vote every day no matter how little information in order to give information to analyze for the second day. Imagine if everyone skipped this first day (we would be guaranteed no town death), but you would only be able to analyze what happened in the night and what people claimed they did in the night. Whereas if people vote today, Town knows that the Wolves all start in contact and so Wolves have to interact with each other in ways to throw off their connections, even after unknown night actions happen. Now using D1 vote analysis we have even more information going into D2, so make sure you vote someone at some point today, EmmyNecro.

    As for me: RNGesus (the God of all fairness) decided Elenna shall be the vote of the day!
    Good callout without being too harsh. Kinda null read for this game, but I like seeing this for community-growth reasons.

    Quote Originally Posted by rogue_alchemist View Post
    There is no set limit for a lynch, it's just whoever has the most at the end of the day. There just becomes a point where the wagon is so large and people have such different schedules that getting the wagon to change becomes almost impossible last minute and so ~8 hours out from close of day (which is Thursday-ish, so no where close) it becomes more or less set unless there are 2 or more wagons that are close (which usually there are D1).



    Since we have a bunch of new people, I will point this out for them: Beware of large blank spaces in posts or anyone who doesn't have a signature with a line at the bottom or too much space at the bottom for those that do it indicates someone tried to hide something as white text that won't be discovered until you quote it so that they can reveal something later. I caught you Libro! Not that this is a big deal, but I am on the watch for all the shenanigans people pull to hide/code information within their posts.

    The best way to see white text is to highlight the post or to use a theme on here other than light.
    More of the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by rogue_alchemist View Post
    Now that a vote count is out, I am very happy to not be on a wagon. I just see a whole bunch of movement based on newness and general D1 jumpiness, so I am not going to change it yet. Though Cao advocating for Apogee1 to get another vote (and thus brining them up into the tie for lynch wagons) is interesting.
    This is a bit before Apogee claimed, so it's not calling out Cao specifically for voting a mason. It looks better in hindsight than it was at the time because of that.

    Quote Originally Posted by rogue_alchemist View Post
    Just take note of for now, though finding out as I posted it that not only was it hidden, but it was wrong, makes it seem more wolfish. Then Apogee claimed and it seems a solid claim so far, so maybe just an honest mistake? I am keeping and eye on this for information gathering purposes.



    The watcher can see what happens to the person with the possible addition of what that person does, while the tracker can only see who the person they are tracking is targeting (usually). I know not everyone follows those lines exactly, but that is the intention on delineating those roles.
    Null, the analysis part could be made by anybody, as could the given clarification on roles.

    Quote Originally Posted by rogue_alchemist View Post
    I've never known Xi to act in calm OR Rational ways, so I totally agree this is very suspicious. My vote on Elenna feels very odd now with me having suspcions out there for how people are acting, so I'll change my vote to Xi

    For newbies: WIFOM = Wine In Front Of Me from Princess Bride and refers to the dilemma of whether people make optimal but expected choices, or a suboptimal but unexpected choice.



    I am aware of the connotation of cynic, but I never consider it to be exclusive of energy or happiness? It reminds me of a cartoon I used to watch where they had 2 sisters and one could see everything good that happened in the future, but was depressed and melancholic about it and the other could see everything bad, but was upbeat and happy about it. They explained that when you know all the worse things, everything else seems great and when you already know everything good, everything else seems drab.
    RA is making a habit of explaining concepts to the new players. It's a good attitude in general, but at this point I must also consider that it's a good way to look more helpful than you're actually being to the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by rogue_alchemist View Post
    maybe a better interpretation within this subforum, but good to have the larger historical context too.
    Mmm.

    Quote Originally Posted by rogue_alchemist View Post
    too late Xi, but now is when she makes it seem like she wants to be murdered and if not by lynch, then by night kill and people start second guessing if she has some strange win-con that involves her dying (which is what I most associate with Masons, but that may just be me). I recommend we not fall for such tactics and stay strong!
    Null. Anybody can want to kill Xihirli.

    Quote Originally Posted by rogue_alchemist View Post
    hehe silly brits with their 'wrong' spelling. But in all seriousness, couldn't this be fixed pretty easily? Flat_Footed, as a mod, can you comment on how hard it would be to accept both spellings?
    Forum functionality. Null outside the aforementioned "looking busy" thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by rogue_alchemist View Post
    You can see when I put my vote on her, that I stated, she would do that to you. She always BEGS to be lynched or night-killed, whenever the least wagon starts on her. I don't know why, I guess it has worked out pretty well for the most part, but you gotta push through it to really make the lynch stick!
    More of the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by rogue_alchemist View Post
    Yea as BatCatHat said, I am voting for Xi too.
    Clarification post. Null.

    Quote Originally Posted by rogue_alchemist View Post
    I could have sworn that used to be a thing (I did it before the website crashed a while ago I thought). It wasn't called dark mode, but it was something that changed the colors so that the backgrounds were darker. It might have been removed. I could be thinking of a different gaming forum site I used. I could just be totally confused. I am getting off for today and will be back in ~12hours.
    Forum functionality. Null.


    This started out good with talking about stuff that isn't the game, but then it just kept going and there wasn't really much actual discussion of the game ever. There's a lot of words here, but barely any of them focused on the strategy and tactics and lynch. I can't tell if this is just RA being a kinda casual townie unconcerned with the gamestate, or scum doing a phenomenal job of disguising nongame discussion as activity. Slight scum lean.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Spoiler: Shal06 ISO
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shal06 View Post
    since this is my first game and have no preconceptions about anyone here I'll go with AvatarVecna
    Randvote, null.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shal06 View Post
    yeah just changed it
    Null.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shal06 View Post
    how many votes are a lynch?
    Null.


    Null for now. Might just be a new player who isn't particularly active, might be a new wolf who's avoiding posting because they're not sure how to post without looking wolfy - a common enough anxiety. I wanna see more activity so I can get a better feel for them either way.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Spoiler: Snowblaze ISO
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowblaze View Post
    First here... and I donít know who to vote for. If in doubt, kill AvatarVecna, I guess.

    Let the chaos begin!
    Randvote, null.

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowblaze View Post
    You mean skip voting? I recommend you do vote for someone as that's the best way to produce evidence for future days. And you never know, we might get lucky and kill a wolf.

    If you don't know who to vote for, just summon a random number. Or you can vote for me, I won't mind... much.

    *definitely-not-ominous music, whatever that sounds like*
    Nice response, but could've come from a wolf or townie, so NAI.

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowblaze View Post
    Seems like about time for a vote count!

    AvatarVecna 3 (Snowblaze, Murska, Shal06)
    Apogee1 2 (Valmark, EmmyNecromancer)
    rogue_alchemist 1 (flat_footed)
    Valmark 3 (AvatarVecna, Xihirli, Elenna)
    Elenna 1 (rogue_alchemist)
    Batcathat 2 (JeenLeen, Bladescape)
    Totadileplayz 1 (Batcathat)
    Bladescape 1 (Libro)
    No posts: everyone else

    ...hmm. Actual reads time, I guess. I can see where the Batcathat suspicion is coming from, but I don't think voting there is productive right now - I'll wait and see how they (note to self: check pronouns) respond to pressure.

    Bladescape's point regarding Emmy is probably only valid if AV is also a wolf - otherwise I'd say the vote is NAI. (Not Alignment Indicative, for the newbies).

    That's about all I can dredge up for the moment without trying to force reads.

    - - - Updated - - -

    ...oh, right, ninja'd. Several times. Ignore my vote count, Caoimhin's is actually up to date.
    It's pretty early for reads. There's nothing too controversial or weird here, but because there's not much to go on, it's mostly obvious stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowblaze View Post
    What kind of interesting? Actively wolfy, or just worth making a note of?

    @Batcathat, I'll try and find time to read through recent games to see if I think you've been similar.
    A decent response, although not really alignment indicative.

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowblaze View Post
    If one was town and the other wolf, then presumably the partner would call Apogee out on lying about whether they were confirmed. If both were wolves I would be extremely annoyed with gac3. There is a vague possibility of "Apogee manipulated a newbie partner into trusting them to go along with this" but that's too paranoid tinfoil even for me, so barring counterclaims I believe this.
    This feels good to me, better than some of the other meandering theories were coming out of the gate. This feels slightly more town than most I've read so far.

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowblaze View Post
    What are your own reasons for thinking they're towny?
    Null, it's pushing for more discussion but it's an easy push to make given the context.

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowblaze View Post
    Morning. I see I missed a lot. Vaguely caught-up-ish and feeling like I need to skim through ISOs to get a firm grip on the game. In the meantime, since I donít feel like voting for the current wagons right now, letís see what happens if I vote for CaoimhinTheCape.
    Null, although looking forward to seeing her thoughts once she's caught up.


    Slight town lean. Got a good feeling about Snowblaze.
    Last edited by AvatarVecna; 2021-06-02 at 01:40 AM.


    Currently Recruiting WW/Mafia: nothing currently.

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    Aspiring optimizers can try their luck in Zinc Saucier XXXIX: Hoist The Colors High

    Quote Originally Posted by Book Wombat View Post
    It's always AvatarVecna time.

  26. - Top - End - #116
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Percy Jackson

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    Spoiler: Rogan ISO
    Show


    As before, I'm not fond of any argument to skip the D1 lynch, and this one providing additional reasons to do so is striking me badly.



    Null, nothing to indicate alignment here.



    I like calling out mistakes in the votecount. It gives good reason to look at the people tabulating the votes, to see if it looks like they're trying to skew public perception of the lynch.

    ...

    ...next one is big, so let's cut down to the parts I wanna address.



    Before I go off on my enormous tangent about Apogee, I'll just say that I'm not fond of the shade being cast at this point. It's already been discussed to death. The situations where this is a fakeclaim are either exceedingly unlikely or extremely easy to check/counterclaim - in particular, a counterclaim is a good idea for the reasons I'm about to go into. At this point, if you're questioning the claim, you need to present a plausible reason for doing so - a scheme or scenario that hasn't been considered. This hand-wringing "I wanna trust it but idk if wolves had the right power combo this could hand them the game" and not specifying what that "nightmare combo nobody else has considered" is, just looks scummy.

    Spoiler: My Thoughts On Apogee
    Show
    "his death would be more helpful than his life" IME you are correct. Masons + QT Spam = Boring Town Win. Here's the order of events:

    1) Mason!Apogee publicly reveals D1, makes QTs with absolutely everybody. Apogee shares these links in the mason chat.

    2) Apogee is murdered in the night. Nobody scried him, nobody watched him, nobody baned him. Only a wolf targeted him, and nobody was tracking that wolf. It's a complete mystery who performed the kill. Apogee is revealed as a townie and a mason, and their mason buddy is still both alive and anonymous.

    3) The other Mason logs into QT with a pseudonym (ie "Child Of Demeter") and proceeds to make contact through all the QT links they have from the mason chat.

    4) Every true townie gives an honest claim and conspires with the mason to catch the wolves. The mason knows the most and is demonstrably trustworthy, so it's best if they pick the lynch and the night targets as part of their larger scheme to catch wolves not obeying.

    At this point, the game balance has shifted dramatically in town's favor. The mason doesn't know which claims they can trust, but all townies know they can trust the mason even if they don't know who the mason is.

    The wolves have to decide between claiming their real roles or fakeclaiming something else. If they fakeclaim, it's easier to catch them not obeying mason instructions because they're incapable of obeying mason instructions - and even with three neutrals, there's probably five wolves, which means there aren't enough fakeclaims to go around, somebody is going to claim something that somebody else has claimed, and that will get announced by the mason via some other player (ie "mason says that these two people have both claimed to be the Ares with the survival power. Let's test that, shall we?"). Final fakeclaim option is some nebulous neutral, but there can only be so many of those: even if I'm correct and there's only one neutral in the game, if all the wolves claim neutral, the mason will smell rats. You could maybe get away with two neutral claims, if I'm correct and there's only one real neutral in play - but I might be wrong, and even a single neutral fakeclaim by a wolf will result in four neutral claims made to the mason, which still means a rattish smell. Fakeclaiming is a great way to get caught either immediately or shortly.

    If they give a true claim, this at least gives them the ability to obey (even if they don't want to), and it means their claims shouldn't contradict anybody elses, but it also puts their night actions in control of the network or they risk getting caught disobeying. It also means that they get analyzed a bit based on how useful their power would be as a wolf vs as a townie; there's several powers wolves probably don't have, and a few that they probably do have, and having one of those "looks like a wolf power" powers is gonna put extra attention on them. This, incidentally, is why analyzing the roles to see which make more sense as town powers or wolf powers is useful information - it gives the mason something to think about when they're getting claims post-apogee-murder.

    Wolf priorities at this point have shifted to include a few things:

    1) Don't let Apogee die, and cast shade on the mason claim so that people aren't as likely to claim to him until he dies.
    2) In case Apogee dies, figure out how we're gonna claim to the anonymous mason.
    2a) If fakeclaiming, have one or two claim neutral, and the others claim roles that are hopefully not present and not easily provable.
    2b) If realclaiming, make sure to cast shade on anybody trying to analyze which powers are more or less likely to be wolves, like calling out the people who did it as wasting time with useless information with the intent to look more helpful than they really are.



    Per the wolf priorities, villager priorities also shift slightly. The weirdest shift is definitely that it's probably in our best interest to kill Apogee unless we're pretty sure we've caught a wolf today: the sooner we can confirm Apogee as mason, the sooner we can get the ball rolling on that super network.

    Of course, all of that is the upside of this strategy. Now we get to the downside, which is that it's anti-fun. It's not fun for Apogee, who did the right thing and gets killed for it by town. It's not for for Apogee's mason buddy, who now has to control all the powers in the game, while figuring out how to test players for disobedience/scumminess, while not accidentally revealing themselves to wolves in any of a number of ways. It's not fun for wolves, who now have to focus all their effort on fooling the mason long enough to kill the mason before the mason finds somebody they can absolutely trust to hand the network to in the event of their death. It's not fun for the rest of town, whose optimal strategy is to allow themselves to be led around by the nose by an anonymous poster, while doing as much as possible to obfuscate who that mason could be so that they don't accidentally give the game away to any wolves they're talking to.

    You have analysis? Share that privately with the mason, but otherwise keep it to yourself. You have a scheme to pull? It better focus around taking out the mason. You've got a neutral goal and don't wanna get ganked? Better kowtow to the mason. The entire game shifts to focus around one player. It's optimal play for town, but it's not really fun. And the game can shift to this so quickly when it's like this: if the masons didn't pull this trick, then the game would take place 90% in QTs as players start privately talking with all other players, webs of links connecting everyone to everyone while they compare notes on who seems to be changing their suspicions depending on who they're talking to. It's all this exciting analysis...and then one of the masons dies anyway, an anonymous person shows up in that mason's chats, and now it's back to the boring version.




    There's enough powers that aren't scries or kills that I could still see a scanner as a wolf. If you targeted AvatarVecna with the kill, and Murska died, and you know that you were targeted by Xihirli, you now know Xihirli has some kinda power that swaps targets. That's useful information that doesn't really put you at risk. Additionally, if you're fine going out in a blaze of glory, you could do something like claim wolf at the last second of the day, really play up your wolfiness, and then watch the power targeting come in. It's unlikely the vig is going to shoot you over that (it could be a gambit, for all they know), but you'll at least get a few people targeting you that night with info powers, and that gives you a shortlist to hand to your wolf buddies of "these people might be seers, kill them".

    Lots of options.


    Slight scum lean. There's some stuff I like here, but some of it really rubs me the wrong way.
    Since I'm on my way to work, I don't have lots of time left to reply to this, so this post will be shorter than I'd like it to be.

    About Apogee: I don't trust him 100% yet. But right now, there does not seem to be any proof.
    Killing him would be a proof, but I agree it would not be a nice thing to do so. It would mean to kill somebody you belive to be town. It might yield more info, but it feels like an evil move.
    So I would like to have another way to proof his claim. If possible, without outing important power roles.
    I suggested to use info gathering roles on him, only claiming if you find a contradiction. I might have missed it, but is there a reason this would not work or otherwise be a bad plan? Except the scanner thing?

    About voting not kill, I guess I'm missing the experience to judge what is worth more, a death reveal or one more active power role in night 1. The chances of catching a wolf by chance is quite low, after all. So, in short, despite your wolf read, I stand by my thought:
    No lynch has some advantages. I have to admit it also has disadvantages. That's one reason I'm following the general advice to vote to kill.

    To come to an end, before I'm away:
    You have good points, but I'd like to hear your answers to the following questions.

    Do you propose to verify Apogees claim? If yes, how?

  27. - Top - End - #117
    Titan in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Percy Jackson

    Spoiler: totadileplayz ISO
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    Quote Originally Posted by totadileplayz View Post
    As people should know about me I can only really start posting when I'm aware the game started, and I worked late last night. Thus causing me to only really be able to start looking at this at 11 am, so that's why I was quiet.

    Now I have to say I trust apogee, I don't doubt they are who they say they are, that role should be in the game, and the wolves will likely target them.

    Now overall Jeenleen he always votes for me, and having him be voted back in turn is only fair in my eyes. Especially since I don't see anyone particularly sus.
    OMGUS at its finest. Null I guess, idk. Getting tired.

    Quote Originally Posted by totadileplayz View Post
    Rereading I notice that I mistook cao for jeen sorry jeen.
    lmao guess I'm not the only tired one.

    Quote Originally Posted by totadileplayz View Post
    How do you change the background color for the forums?
    Forum functionality. Null.

    Quote Originally Posted by totadileplayz View Post
    Overall, I do not feel confident to read anyone based on a total of 3 games, I Trust Apogee, and that's about my only town-read right now. Ultimately I can not see The Wolves trying to attempt it as it sacrifices a wolf, and people are dis-incentivised to try to reveal the roles day 1. Ultimately all that means is that there will be a focus on them. Possible neutral that somehow knew the demeter cabin wasn't in the game? Maybe, overall I believe it's just best to trust it.

    Another contestant? Bookwombat he's as others have pointed out basically just did I did a wolfy play, let me point out I made a wolfy play. Then be quiet for the rest of the game. While Batcathat, and Xihirli are weird this game, I don't see it as particularly wolfy weird. Bookwombat.

    There aren't even any real plays I can point out logistical problems with as everything seems to make sense. So, can't point at someone there, no one to bounce ideas off of either. So... Yeah. Guess I'm voting Bookwombat.
    Alrighty a solid post to work with. I think this is the first suggestion that apogee could be neutral. I like tot not just taking the easy path and jumping on a wagon - I could see a wolf doing that. Slight townie points, although I'll keep in mind the possibility of a BCH/tot wolfteam.


    Slight town lean but it's pretty shaky. Hopefully much more activity incoming.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Spoiler: Valmark ISO
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valmark View Post
    Only two votes and already a wagon forming? Now that is aggressive.

    Apogee1.
    Looks worse in hindsight than it was at the time. Null.

    Quote Originally Posted by Valmark View Post
    ...that a challenge? U.U

    - - - Updated - - -



    Pretty much what Snow and rogue said, it's better to vote in order to produce information afterwards.
    *nods*

    Quote Originally Posted by Valmark View Post
    I... Pulled my vote away because I'm not about to try and lynch someone who just claimed, feels like it'd set a bad precedent, but this does feel fishy as hell.

    I understand wanting to start a network but like you said there's no actual guarantee you/your partner/both (unlikely this one) are Town. This feels like a good way to set yourself (and/or your partner) up to be at the center of the network and exercise control on the information shared (or just know what people tell each other).
    Scumlean. Either you doubt it for a reason, and keep your vote there, or you think it through and realize the claim is almost certainly legit, like basically everybody. This honestly reads like "I still suspect you, but I don't wanna attract attention for voting the claimed mason so I'll move my vote elsewhere".

    Quote Originally Posted by Valmark View Post
    No, Xi, keep believing! You can let go of death!

    (This sounds much more serious then the context suggests)

    And... Uhm. I honestly have no idea who to vote now. Guess I'll join on poking Book Wombat, hopefully it serves something.
    This continues feeling kinda wishywashy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Valmark View Post
    Well, BW posted so... MornShine, any news from you?
    Poking an inactive instead of addressing posts calling him out hmmmmm.

    Quote Originally Posted by Valmark View Post
    @Elenna to clarify, in the first post you quoted from me I had already took the vote off of Apogee1 (like I said in it). Or I took it off immediately after, not sure.

    I stayed for a bit without voting (if you check the vote counts you'll notice in some of them I was counted as not voting) then moved on Book Wombat.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also yeah, I definitely still suspect Apogee1, I've got no reason not too. I took the vote off because I didn't feel alright voting the only claim we have, but that doesn't mean I'm not suspicious.

    I didn't comment on the reply because what he said had already been said so it felt kinda pointless to add to it.
    Given what all has happened and been discussed, I'd really like to hear the scenario that to your mind justifies continued suspicion.


    Wolf lean, easily my strongest yet.

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    Spoiler: Xihirli ISO
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xihirli View Post
    Do not like this AvatarVecna pile-up. You know who lives through most games? Valmark. If weíre choosing our D1 kill purely on who wonít hurt our conscience, Valmark is my pick.
    Counterwagon for counterwagon's sake, and valmark hadn't been weird yet. Possible AV/Xihirli scumteam?

    Quote Originally Posted by Xihirli View Post
    So that's a lotta bonkers stuff going on.

    I don't really like any of these wagons. Apogee seems trustworthy to me for reasons already stated; the high possibility of a counterclaim and the lack of one being chief among them.

    I feel like the night is going to be a big event here in an all-PR game. We've got... a little more than three times the power roles firing in the night as the wolves? Honestly it might be best to go no lynch and let our numbers advantage get us gallons of info in the night.
    Yeah, really not liking the "no voting D1" ball this post started rolling with others picking it up later. Hrm...

    Quote Originally Posted by Xihirli View Post
    You guys are convincing me, it was a mistake to ever deviate from my murder instinct.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xihirli View Post
    Nooooo kill me I promise it's a good idea and won't blow up in your face
    Quote Originally Posted by Xihirli View Post
    Forums are American, you need to put ďcolorĒ in brackets if you want to kill me
    Quote Originally Posted by Xihirli View Post
    I'll keep my vote on Valmark for now. I don't like anyone's blood particularly more.
    Normally RP happens before serious game posts but ok. Null, Xihirli being Xihirli.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xihirli View Post
    I can't read your mind.

    You can go to the settings for the playground but unfortunately there is no dark mode.
    Forum functionality, null.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xihirli View Post
    Oh no you suspect me! What a change this is from before!
    RP.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xihirli View Post
    We have skins, but our choices are only Playground Sand and Playground Sand Mobile.
    Forum functionality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xihirli View Post
    Spoiler: Zeus
    Show
    And Zeus is a little **** with **** for a **** who **** all over the **** so much he should **** right to the bank while a thousand tiny ants eat his ****
    RP.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xihirli View Post
    Here's the thing. Town has won most of the games up to now just playing the same way boringly. I think we have enough town-wins under our belt that we can afford to try new things and get crazy.
    An odd sentiment, but could just be a Xihirli-ism. Hard to say.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xihirli View Post
    I vary my grammar! I don't have to obey your rules! OR YOU'RE RULES!
    RP.


    Slight scum lean, but could just be typical Xihirli stuff.

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    Spoiler: Zelphas ISO
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    Just got here, and... there's a lot of movement already. Makes sense.

    As it's day 1, I don't have much to go off of, and I'm not terribly good at noticing others' tells. It looks like we have a three-way tie, though, so things are at least forming in that direction. I think for now, I'll cast my vote on Batcathat.

    My reasoning:

    --Tipping the scales out of a deadlock seems like it would provide more discussion, and since pushing a vote on Day 1 is set up so that there will be more discussion and information to gather, this seems like the best move.

    --Of the three who have the most votes, JeenLeen and bladescape both made at least initial arguments concerning this current game for why they voted Batcathat, so right now that seems like the most sensible of the three votes.

    This is still day 1, though, so votes are always subject to change.
    Feels a bit wishy-washy, but it was pretty early in the day. The bigger mark against them is the lack of activity following this. You acknowledge that fostering discussion is the best move for town, and then don't contribute. Be the change you want to see in the world!


    Null for now.

    - - - Updated - - -

    In order of suspicion from least to most:

    Apogee1
    Snowblaze
    (Elenna)
    MornShine
    (bladescape)
    totadileplayz

    Shal06
    Zelphas
    Libro
    flat_footed
    JeenLeen
    CaoimhinTheCape
    Murska

    Xihirli
    Batcathat
    Book Wombat
    EmmyNecromancer
    rogue_alchemist

    (bladescape)
    Rogan
    (Elenna)

    Valmark
    AvatarVecna

    (And yes, that's a vote on Valmark)

    Quote Originally Posted by bladescape View Post
    Let me elaborate for you.

    1. Number of words don't mean ****. Until it's substantial enough of content vs no content. Pre-400 word counts are, at best, misleading.

    2. I'll pay you that he pointed out one thing. I did kinda breeze over that one, so my bad.

    3. Pending his response, to be honest I dislike that play a lot from him in the first place.

    4. Thank you for the response, I was poking the bear to see how it reacted so that was a nice meaty response.


    Finally:
    I take some minor offense that you think my contribution quality is the same as Cao's. He has so far waffled on, made irrelevant votes, (Both times voting for people who were not near lynch contender.) made no strong arguments for anyone bar one minor note which could've been an easy throwaway, and provided null analysis. Particularly:


    There's a decent chance that if Cao is wolf then one of AV/Valmark/Batcat is also wolf.


    (That being said, direct correlation to BookWombat was a little inaccurate of a statement on reflection. I was just incensed by seeing "null" on someone I thought obvious wolf-telling.)
    I'm sorry I don't share your conviction based on three mostly-neutral posts? *shrugs* I've seen Cao play wolf quite a bit, both as town and scum myself, and I'm not exactly seeing any red flags. There's one kinda good thing (calling out another player on being inconsistent), and one kinda bad thing (explaining that callout after it became a bad idea to explain it), and then the same kind of middling commentary that half the players in the game have made.

    Which, if we wanna talk about middling commentary and null analysis...

    There's a decent chance that if Cao is wolf then one of AV/Valmark/Batcat is also wolf.
    Oh wooooooow really? You think one of the three top wagons that have been trading positions all day might have a wolf in it, because Cao gave mild two-sentence defenses for all of them? Do tell me more about this theory of yours.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    Do you propose to verify Apogees claim? If yes, how?
    The strength of the "boring town win" plan is in the guarantee that the hidden mason is trustworthy despite being alive and anonymous. Normally, the only time you can 100% trust someone is what you think they are is after the narrator has confirmed it following that person's death. There are three scenarios where we can have 100% trust in a player this game: first, in a private chat with a now-dead mason, the other mason talks to us (anonymously or otherwise); second, that one Poseidon power is used to have the narrator publicly claim your role (which could be used to absolutely private-claim to two people instead, which doesn't get you a giant pile of claims from everybody but is probably safer tbh); third, you have been brought back from the dead via that one Hades power. In two of these three scenarios, the 100% trustworthy person is also at risk of being intentionally targeted by scumteam.

    That's it. Any other "proof" is largely going to depend on info-gathering roles, except there's multiple target-switching powers available, and almost certainly at least one of them is in play. Given that switch-powers (usually) don't inform the person that their target has been switched without their knowledge, info-gathering abilities aren't as reliable as narrator reveals or mason QT shenanigans. Obviously they could be quite dependable, but it's not going to be quite as rocksolid.

    ...but it would still probably work out just fine. An alignment-scry or role-scry could confirm Apogee in the seer's mind.
    Last edited by AvatarVecna; 2021-06-02 at 11:48 AM.


    Currently Recruiting WW/Mafia: nothing currently.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Book Wombat View Post
    It's always AvatarVecna time.

  28. - Top - End - #118
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Percy Jackson

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    Oh wooooooow really? You think one of the three top wagons that have been trading positions all day might have a wolf in it, because Cao gave mild two-sentence defenses for all of them? Do tell me more about this theory of yours.
    See, you vacillate between looking good at analysis and then you pull this. Sarcasm doesn't become you.

    That being said, after reading your ISOs over, I'm going to move vote off you, I don't need anything more.

    TO explain the thing that was sarcasmed:
    No one else has tried discrediting every wagon so far. Generally a "I don't like all the wagons" is what a lot of town will do, or they'll acknowledge the ones they don't mind.

    To go to the effort of describing the reasons he doesn't like all the wagons? Leans wolf for me. Wolves in the absence of scrutiny are more likely to attempt to justify something they don't need to justify.

    That being said, all that everyone has said is Day 1 reads. None of them are going to have the strength of a lategame ISO finding trends or interesting information uncovered in hindsight.

    - - - Updated - - -

    CaoimhinTheCape

    Please tell us your reads and thoughts on the current situation.
    Last edited by bladescape; 2021-06-02 at 06:16 PM.
    "Trust bladescape, Shadow of Doubt,"




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  29. - Top - End - #119
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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Percy Jackson

    You look less scummy for having finally gotten some bite to match all the barking you were doing.


    Currently Recruiting WW/Mafia: nothing currently.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Book Wombat View Post
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  30. - Top - End - #120
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    Default Re: Werewolf/Mafia: Percy Jackson

    I'm AV's top non-confirmed townread. That makes me very paranoid.

    That being said, I agree with a good proportion of their reads. The major points of difference are Valmark and totadile.

    Valmark's reaction to the claim reminds me of HP Mafia and "Snowblaze claimed Seer, she must be a wolf". He was town that game. On the other hand he moved his vote away from rather than onto the claim this time... so it's not a super strong read, but strong enough for day one purposes. And I used to know how to read Valmark... let's see if I still do.

    There were a couple of things I didn't like about Totadile - I think his focus on and random vote for Jeen (especially a good way into the day) was my main problem with them, as it feels like something a wolf could easily hide behind. But I don't know them at all, so I could definitely be wrong on this one.
    I have returned.

    Werewolf games won: 8
    Werewolf games lost: 5
    Games as town: 8
    Games as neutral: 2
    Games as wolf: 3
    Games narrated: 1
    Deaths: 6

    I have no clue what Iím doing, but you still shouldn't trust me.

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