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2022-01-05, 08:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never
Homebrew
Please feel free to PM me any thoughts on my homebrew (or comment in the thread if it's not too old).
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2022-01-09, 12:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never
+0: liquidformat
+1: H_H_F_F, Troacctid, Caelestion, Beni-Kujaku, PoeticallyPsyco, Temotei
+2: loky1109
WotC actually got pretty close on this one. Brownies are next. (Spoiler Alert: They actually have a "Brownies as Characters" section.)Kaedanis Pyran, tai faernae.
The LA Assignment Threads: Attempting to Make Monsters Playable Since 2016
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2022-01-09, 01:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never
So the "Brownies as Characters" section makes the usual chart a bit redundant, but I'm doing it anyway.
Size & Type: Tiny Fey
Space/Reach: 2.5'/0'
HD: 1/2
Speed: 30'
Ability Scores: Str -6, Dex +10, Con +2, Int +2, Wis +2, Cha +2 - Net +12, one penalty
Natural Armor: 0
Natural Weapons: N/A
Skill List: +2 Racial to Craft (By RHD: Balance, Craft (Any One), Diplomacy, Escape Artist, Handle Animal, Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Sense Motive, Spot, Tumble)
Body Shape: Humanoid
Speech (Languages): Yes (Automatic: Common, Halfling, Sylvan. Bonus: Draconic, Elven, Giant, Goblin, Gnome.)
CR: 3
WotC LA: +4
Our LA: +2
So... I kinda wish that "as Characters" section didn't exist. There are things listed in the monster entry that are different, mostly to the "monstrous" Brownie's benefit. Compared to the "as Characters" ones; the "monstrous" Brownie gets an additional +2 to Con and Int, a +2 racial bonus to Spot and Listen, Dodge as a bonus feat, and can use their Dexterity modifier for Climb checks. All for the same LA. (And shortsword proficiency, for whatever that's worth to you.)
In exchange, they lose scaling for the CL of their SLAs and Calm Animal supernatural ability, each of which are a flat 7 for the "monster" and 7+character level for the "player".
At any rate, it exists, and that is what we will be rating.
30' Darkvision (which Fey don't automatically have), Evasion, Uncanny Dodge, Wild Empathy as a 7th-level Druid, and a not-terrible version of Hide in Plain Sight make for an interesting chassis. They can replicate a Calm Animals spell with a supernatural ability targeting a single Animal within 30' as a free action, with a 24-hour immunity clause regardless of the result of the Charisma-based save. As mentioned above, the CL for this as well as their SLAs is 7+character level. The save for this is also 14+ChaMod,and I'm not sure where the extra three is coming from considering that Calm Animals is a first-level spellbecause the monster entry gives them a +3 racial bonus to the DC that the character entry apparently kept without mentioning.
Speaking of the SLAs, there are some decent ones, each once per day and with Charisma-based saves: Confusion, Dancing Lights, Daylight, Dimension Door, Protection from Evil, and Ventriloquism.
Evasion and Uncanny Dodge upgrade to their Improved versions if you get them again from a class. This is already a rule for Uncanny Dodge, though I don't remember off the top of my head if the same is true for Evasion. Their Hide in Plain Sight works "in areas of dim light, tall grass, or heavy undergrowth".
So what Favored Class might you expect with this package? Ranger? Rogue? Maybe Druid?
Expert. Really, WotC?Last edited by Debatra; 2022-01-24 at 07:21 AM.
Kaedanis Pyran, tai faernae.
The LA Assignment Threads: Attempting to Make Monsters Playable Since 2016
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2022-01-09, 01:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Seoul
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Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never
Okay, I'm not even surprised you went there for the image joke.
Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Ao3 FanFiction.net DeviantArt
We also have a TvTropes page!
Currently playing: Red Hand of Doom(campaign journal)Campaign still going on, but journal discontinued until further notice.
Extended sig here.
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2022-01-09, 01:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never
Of course expert. They are house elves. What else should the fey embodiment of service in the house get?
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2022-01-09, 01:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never
Last edited by Debatra; 2022-01-09 at 01:52 PM.
Kaedanis Pyran, tai faernae.
The LA Assignment Threads: Attempting to Make Monsters Playable Since 2016
My Homebrewer's Extended Signature
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2022-01-09, 01:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never
Okay this is really good though. Very strong SLAs, huge Dex, Tiny, no RHD, upgradable evasion, and HiPS don't lie.
I think +1 would clearly be too low, and +2 and +3 are theoretically both defensible, but at +3 it would be competing with the reassigned pixie, which would just make it unplayable in comparison. I put it at +2.Rhymes with "Protracted."
Handbooks: The Warlockopedia | The Warmagepedia (WIP) | Tier List (2019 Update)
Spreadsheets: Spellcasting classes | Deities | Useful items
Homebrew: Gestalt Theurge | Fighter and Monk fixes | Warlock stuff
Original Fiction: The Wizard's Familiar
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2022-01-09, 03:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never
Strong +2 or weak +3? I'll go with +3 for now. Good stats‚ acceptable SLAs‚ HiPS.... That seems decent to me.
Resurrecting the Negative LA thread, comments and discussion are very welcome!
Do you want to build monstrous characters with reasonable LA? Join the Monster Mash! Currently, round XII: One-Punch Monster!!! One deadly attack is all it takes!
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Searchable spreadsheet of 3.5 monsters by abilities, now with all online monsters
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2022-01-09, 03:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never
Popping in to note that short swords are martial weapons.
Screaming defiance with the last breath
It would be strange indeed if so celestial an article as FREEDOM should not be highly rated.
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2022-01-09, 03:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never
I'm looking on +3.
Spoiler: For purposes of clarity1109 is September, 11 - my birthday.
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2022-01-10, 06:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never
The skill and ability boosts alone are worth +2 LA, so once you add in the SLAs and additional class-like powers, I'm going to go with LA +3.
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2022-01-10, 02:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never
+1 feels a little low. +2 feels a little high. Guess ill go with tentative +2. anything above +2 in indefensible, imo, but im not planning to get into a debate over this opinion. others are free to disagree.
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2022-01-10, 02:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never
+2 from me. It's excellent for sure, and the janky caster level on the SLAs can probably be utilized for some cheese - but 3 LA seems too steep for any non-cheese based build I could see using this.
Screaming defiance with the last breath
It would be strange indeed if so celestial an article as FREEDOM should not be highly rated.
My judgments and medals!
The Iron Chef Optimization spreadsheet!
Song, Sword, and Sorcery: my 5E homebrew half-caster bard (Version 2.0!)
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2022-01-10, 02:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never
am I misremembering that druid wildshape options are based on your base size? if that's the case a tiny start might limit the options, but I might be wildly misremembering
even if not, though, I can't see this as over +2. it's a solid package at +2 for a rogue or druid, but I'm not really sure how it'd handle being a ranger with the size and str penalties.Last edited by Emberlily; 2022-01-10 at 02:57 PM.
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2022-01-10, 03:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never
Nah, Wild Shape starts off specifically giving you Small and Medium forms.
Kaedanis Pyran, tai faernae.
The LA Assignment Threads: Attempting to Make Monsters Playable Since 2016
My Homebrewer's Extended Signature
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2022-01-10, 03:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never
Put me down for LA +2, will review and do a more detailed breakdown, time permitting.
My winning competition entries: Kinvig Arrumskor | The Great Pumpkinhead | Wynfrith d'Acker
Torn-City - Massively multiplayer online browser based crime RPG
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2022-01-11, 01:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never
I wasn't saying that hurts psychic warrior or swordsage I was saying you effectively have the same bab as psychic warrior/swordsage since you have -2 str and full bab for your first rhd...
Anyways on to a brownie. I am really not seeing +3 LA here, to warrant +3 la you really need to have abilities that don't drop off in effectiveness past level 10 and all of those SLAs are forgettable by level 5-8, Uncanny dodge and evasion can be gotten with one or two levels, and HiPS can be gotten by level 6 nothing here is particularly useful. This thing is probably going into rogue, swordsage or something similar; if we compare it to say a halfling swordsage 6 vs brownie swordsage 3 +3 la it frankly falls very short; even brownie swordsage 4 falls a bit short of swordsage 6 but it at least kind of keeps up. LA +2 seems correct here.
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2022-01-12, 01:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never
https://archive.wizards.com/ is dead now or it is my internet issue?
Spoiler: For purposes of clarity1109 is September, 11 - my birthday.
Ice for all and let no one be forgotten!
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2022-01-12, 02:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never
It's down, again. Time to bust out the Wayback Machine, again.
Rhymes with "Protracted."
Handbooks: The Warlockopedia | The Warmagepedia (WIP) | Tier List (2019 Update)
Spreadsheets: Spellcasting classes | Deities | Useful items
Homebrew: Gestalt Theurge | Fighter and Monk fixes | Warlock stuff
Original Fiction: The Wizard's Familiar
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2022-01-12, 03:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never
This is why I kept pushing for online monsters - this was pretty much inevitable. Thank goodness for Wayback machine.
My winning competition entries: Kinvig Arrumskor | The Great Pumpkinhead | Wynfrith d'Acker
Torn-City - Massively multiplayer online browser based crime RPG
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2022-01-12, 03:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never
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2022-01-24, 07:21 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never
Almost two weeks later and the archives are still down. Combined with the apparent lack of anything else to say about Brownies, I guess we're ready to move on to the Cache Dweller, thanks to the Wayback Machine.
+2 - Troacctid, Remuko, H_H_F_F, Emberlily, Thurbane, liquidformat
+3 - Beni-Kujaku, loky1109, Caelestion
+2Kaedanis Pyran, tai faernae.
The LA Assignment Threads: Attempting to Make Monsters Playable Since 2016
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2022-01-24, 08:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never
Size & Type: Medium Undead (does not have Incorporeal subtype despite being incorporeal)
Space/Reach: 5'/5'
HD: 5
Speed: Swim 60'
Ability Scores: Str +4??, Dex +6, Con -, Int +0, Wis +2, Cha +6 - Net +18, no penalties
Natural Armor: 0 (ChaMod to Deflection)
Natural Weapons: One Primary... Okay, so "Attacks" says "Slam", but a separate "Damage" line says "Incorporeal touch" (1d6... and appears to include StrMod?)
Skill List: Hide (+10 racial), Intimidate, Spot
Body Shape: "waterlogged cloak". It at least explicitly has eyes (if maybe not physical ones?) and a mouth.
Speech (Languages): No
CR: 7
WotC LA: -
Our LA: -0* (Uncapped Spawn Ability)
...Are these things incorporeal or not? The writer seems very confused here.
First thing's first: Uncapped Spawn Ability. Any humanoid (as well as their belongings) killed by a Dweller dissolve into a puddle and transform over 1d4 days. Casting Protection from Evil on the "body" (I guess the puddle?) within that time prevents the transformation. The spawn is uncontrolled.
Aside from that, +2 Turn Resistance, Sunlight Powerlessness (can't attack and can only take partial actions), and an Unnatural Aura that repels animals and makes them panic if forced to approach closer than 30' cap off an... interesting creature. It also has no listed Fortitude save... Is this 3.0 weirdness or something?
Engulf... on a supposedly incorporeal creature? Okay then. The target of an engulf attempt can be up to Medium size, and may choose between a Reflex save to avoid it or to just accept it in exchange for an AoO. The Cache Dweller can't make a slam attack in the same round that it tries to Engulf something, though it gets a +6 untyped bonus on attacks against whatever it has engulfed. Engulfed creatures are considered grappled, and any attack that hits the Dweller splits its damage evenly between it and its victim.
...There is no listed way to escape, rescue, or release an engulfed creature. Maybe with grapple checks.
And to think, I almost inflicted this mess onto you guys for Christmas because the name made me think of something that would hide in a gift box...Last edited by Debatra; 2022-01-25 at 04:39 PM.
Kaedanis Pyran, tai faernae.
The LA Assignment Threads: Attempting to Make Monsters Playable Since 2016
My Homebrewer's Extended Signature
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2022-01-24, 08:21 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never
No, this is not 3.0 weirdness (I mean, yes, it's also 3.0, but that doesn't matter), it's simply an incompetent mess. This needs cleanup, and more than anything it needs to decide what it wants to be.
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2022-01-24, 08:44 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never
Feels fitting to use the Wayback Machine for something that dwells in the cache. (Okay, so the Wayback Machine's pages aren't technically cached versions, but close enough. )
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2022-01-24, 08:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never
We're going to need a metric buttload of thread rulings to even start with this because it's a mess.
Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Ao3 FanFiction.net DeviantArt
We also have a TvTropes page!
Currently playing: Red Hand of Doom(campaign journal)Campaign still going on, but journal discontinued until further notice.
Extended sig here.
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2022-01-24, 08:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never
I only noticed that the AC is completely wrong. How do you get 19 when adding 10+3+3?
Edit: I think this thing works best if we ignore the whole "incorporeal" thing and treat it like an undead piece of water, i.e. like an ooze. The deflection bonus becomes natural armor, the attack becomes a slam, we add a rider to engulf so it becomes escapable (propably copy from the gallert cube), maybe add the Water subtype, and change the description of spawn so that the body dissolves in 1d4 days and when the dissolution is finished, it becomes a new dweller. Thoughts? (Oh yes, we also need to add a fortitude bonus and update the skills.)Last edited by Tzardok; 2022-01-24 at 09:04 AM.
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2022-01-24, 09:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never
It's so bad...
But... I don't see any troubles use it as it writen. Non-incorporeal, but with incorporeal touch and Cha mod to deflection AC? Why not?
Fortitude maybe is forgotten because "it's undead".Last edited by loky1109; 2022-01-24 at 09:11 AM.
Spoiler: For purposes of clarity1109 is September, 11 - my birthday.
Ice for all and let no one be forgotten!
Welcome to the Zinc Saucier XLIV: Ice-IX
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2022-01-24, 10:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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- France
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Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never
I agree with you on the "let's rate it as-is". It doesn't have the incorporeal subtype and it has Strength, so it's not incorporeal. I mean, it doesn't even fly. It just happens to be able to deflect attacks with its mind and attack with a touch attack dealing 1d6+Str. Nothing (too) unusual here. The fact that the attack is called "incorporeal touch" may even allow it to take one or two specific feats.
That said, Sunlight Powerlessness, only one attack and no way to wield weapons, mediocre "natural armor", 5 Undead RHD preventing it to be any kind of effective caster, along with terrible body shape... I don't see this be anything more than LA-0*, even with Undead immunities, at least if Engulf is escapable. Since the creature is supposed to be grappled and the grappling rules include moving to a space adjacent to your opponent by escaping the grapple (by winning a grapple check), I don't see how it wouldn't escape an engulf, the same way it does for a Gelatinous Cube (note that the wording is almost identical).
Edit: Also... Challenge Rating 7? What? Why? This thing probably couldn't beat a level 4 fighter in a 1-on-1 fight, even with the fighter suffocating underwater, let alone an entire party. That's the only thing that makes me think that it's actually supposed to be incorporeal (even though the flavor text itself doesn't support this: "not really a ghost at all"; "closer in form to devil rays (or ixitxachitl)"...)Last edited by Beni-Kujaku; 2022-01-24 at 10:18 AM.
Resurrecting the Negative LA thread, comments and discussion are very welcome!
Do you want to build monstrous characters with reasonable LA? Join the Monster Mash! Currently, round XII: One-Punch Monster!!! One deadly attack is all it takes!
Nice find! Have a cookie!
Searchable spreadsheet of 3.5 monsters by abilities, now with all online monsters
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2022-01-24, 10:15 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never
The fact that the attack is called "incorporeal touch" may even allow it to take one or two specific feats.
Only swim, 5 bad HD, no Con, but not bad other stats, deflection, Sunlight...
0 or -0.
What class do you want to this?Last edited by loky1109; 2022-01-24 at 10:21 AM.
Spoiler: For purposes of clarity1109 is September, 11 - my birthday.
Ice for all and let no one be forgotten!
Welcome to the Zinc Saucier XLIV: Ice-IX
Competition's medals.