A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2
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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    Default Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never

    LA+0 for the cancer.

    MM6 or DMGII for the book.

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    Default Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never

    Hmm... no vote for the crawling tumor, but I vote for DMGII templates.
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  3. - Top - End - #33
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    Default Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never

    Kind of want to knock out dmg2 then do mm6.

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    Default Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never

    Quote Originally Posted by liquidformat View Post
    I am still partial to the Unique abilities in DMGII there are only 20 of them they are all templates and right now some of them have some pretty stupid LA like +12 for Unearthly beauty. A lot of the Unique abilities would be pretty cool and fun if they didn't have so much LA.
    Ah yes, those silly things.

    +12 LA is pretty obviously stupid for one dominate person a week and a +4 to Charisma-based checks, considering that nine levels of wizard or ten of bard/sorcerer could get you a couple dominates a day and so much more. For that matter, +1 LA for 1/week sending and 1/month shield other for a specific other person is rather steep, aside from being a really weaksauce soulmate bond.
    I think it would be fun to go through those pseudotemplates and give them a proper LA-ing.


    Quote Originally Posted by liquidformat View Post
    I know MMII was mentioned multiple times in the past and the consensus/concern seemed to be that it was going to be a hard book to rate because it was 3.0 material and also has a decent number of problematic creatures in it. Granted with the number of books we have under our belt now it wouldn't be a horrible time to dive into it.
    Sadly, about 90% of that experience is no longer with us. Debatra does involve the thread-community pretty heavily in his ratings, and I think he's been in it a while, but I wouldn't blame him for not wanting to tackle that until he's done a few books of more conventional beasties.
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  5. - Top - End - #35
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    Default Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWyrmGold View Post
    Ah yes, those silly things.

    +12 LA is pretty obviously stupid for one dominate person a week and a +4 to Charisma-based checks, considering that nine levels of wizard or ten of bard/sorcerer could get you a couple dominates a day and so much more. For that matter, +1 LA for 1/week sending and 1/month shield other for a specific other person is rather steep, aside from being a really weaksauce soulmate bond.
    I think it would be fun to go through those pseudotemplates and give them a proper LA-ing.
    So, I’m guessing the main reason for that was the same reason monster PCs got so shafted by ECL(besides drastically underestimating casting)? Softbans?

    Sadly, about 90% of that experience is no longer with us. Debatra does involve the thread-community pretty heavily in his ratings, and I think he's been in it a while, but I wouldn't blame him for not wanting to tackle that until he's done a few books of more conventional beasties.
    Yeah some more standard monsters seems good.
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  6. - Top - End - #36
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    Default Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never

    Both +0 and DMGII are running away with it. I won't officially call the next book until this one is about done, but it's the only thing with more than one vote so far.

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    Slaughter Wight coming up.
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    Realistically speaking... D&D style magic doesn't exist, so... let's ignore reality.

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    Default Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never

    Slaughter Wight

    Size & Type: Medium Undead
    Space/Reach: 5'/5'
    HD: 18
    Speed: 30'
    Ability Scores: Str +14, Dex +10, Con -, Int +0, Wis +0, Cha +6 - Net +30, no penalties
    Natural Armor: 4
    Natural Weapons: One Primary Slam (1d8, 17-20 threat range [with Improved Critical], plus energy drain)
    Skill List: Climb, Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Spot, Swim
    Body Shape: Humanoid
    Speech (Languages): Yes (Common)
    CR: 8
    WotC LA: -
    Our LA: -0* (Uncapped Spawn Ability)

    First thing's first. Good ol' Wight-ocalypse. Any humanoid killed by a Slaughter Wight becomes a Wight under its control after 1d4 rounds. Similar to the Bleakborn, you might get a Slaughter Wight instead if the DM is being really nice. Asterisk as per usual.

    Its slam gives a single negative level, which gives it five Temporary HP that last an hour (ten on a crit) and feeds its Inescapable Craving for life force. It has Augmented Critical boosting its threat range (which apparently stacks with Improved Critical).

    It's just a big beefy Wight, with a ton more RHD and precious little to show for it. See you guys tomorrow.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SassyQuatch View Post
    It is a major flaw in the game. Destroy a moon? Sure. Talk to somebody a hundred miles away, that's going to be difficult.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rizban View Post
    Realistically speaking... D&D style magic doesn't exist, so... let's ignore reality.

  8. - Top - End - #38
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    Default Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never

    You know, I actually wonder if 18 is a typo and they meant to write 8. Because this is just sad.

    Easy -0* for the Slaughter Wight.

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    Default Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never

    easy -0* for the slaughter wight

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    Default Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never

    -0 LA seems reasonable here

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    Default Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never

    -0* LA no contest.
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  12. - Top - End - #42
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    Default Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never

    I was going to do a detailed breakdown, but 18 RHD? Yeah, lets just call it -0* and move on.
    Last edited by Thurbane; 2021-06-02 at 04:10 PM. Reason: typos

  13. - Top - End - #43
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    Default Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never

    18 HD. CR 8. A 10 HD to CR gap means there is precious little to show. Easy -0

  14. - Top - End - #44
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    Default Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never

    See, this is what -0 is for! 18 HD is just embarrassing for this, it's basically just an advanced wight.

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    Default Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaos Jackal View Post
    You know, I actually wonder if 18 is a typo and they meant to write 8. Because this is just sad.
    Nah. This is a bruiser facing off against level 8 players, so its gotta have more than 4 BAB and 67 hp. A CR 7 dire bear for instance has 9 and 105. Of course this breaks any mechanic based on HD, like turning, but its not like WotC have a stellar record of thinking things through.

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    Default Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never

    I'll mention Savage Species, more to keep it in the collective consciousness than because I expect us to go through it any time soon. (I do look forward to doing so eventually, though we may genuinely just have to skip Symbiotic Creature and possibly Tauric Creature. Or just give them an asterisk with no numeric value attached).

    Speaking of asterisks, -0* for the slaughter wight. I think 5E may have had the right idea with letting undead keep their constitution scores; it means you don't have to give them HD bloat to keep them relevant, which means you don't have to tank their BAB, and also that Turn Undead might see some more use as a class feature rather than a resource or prerequisite.
    Last edited by PoeticallyPsyco; 2021-06-02 at 06:08 PM.
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  17. - Top - End - #47
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    Default Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never

    Quote Originally Posted by Troacctid View Post
    See, this is what -0 is for! 18 HD is just embarrassing for this, it's basically just an advanced wight.
    I don't know‚ man‚ I think -0 should be much harsher than that. It has +14 Str‚ that is a lot! A level 18 monk with 16 Str will have a +16 to hit‚ that's the same as the wight without even PC stats! And the wight not only deals more damage since it can wield weapons but has energy drain to boast! Plus‚ it has d12 hd all along‚ so more HP than if it had less HD and monk levels. I'm pretty sure this can remain relevant and even outperform a straight commoner in combat! LA+0 for me! (Sorry I can't put blue text on my phone)

    About the abilities from the DMGII‚ I think we might need some sort of LA 1- ‚ since we can't reasonably assign LA+0 to pure advantages‚ but they very much do not make for even LA+1.
    Last edited by Beni-Kujaku; 2021-06-03 at 01:53 AM.

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    Default Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never

    Quote Originally Posted by PoeticallyPsyco
    I'll mention Savage Species, more to keep it in the collective consciousness than because I expect us to go through it any time soon. (I do look forward to doing so eventually, though we may genuinely just have to skip Symbiotic Creature and possibly Tauric Creature. Or just give them an asterisk with no numeric value attached).
    Savage Species only has something like 10-20 creatures/templates to evaluate so it would be pretty quick, but yeah between Symbiotic, Tauric, and the horribly edited Anthropomorphic animals it might be a bit of a head ache. The issue with Anthropomorphic animals is mostly that the monster entries aren't always consistent with the rules put forth for the template.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beni-Kujaku View Post
    About the abilities from the DMGII‚ I think we might need some sort of LA 1- ‚ since we can't reasonably assign LA+0 to pure advantages‚ but they very much do not make for even LA+1.
    There are some that could reasonably get a +1 or maybe +2 like getting extra set of arms but others seem like maybe a straight exp cost similar to necropolitan could be reasonable, like having an extra set of legs... Others like the ability to dominate someone once a week are probably worth +1 LA until you get around level 7 ish, so amusingly a lot of them are great for LA buyoff if they had reasonable LA.

    Across the whole I think it could be a really fun little group to evaluate.

  19. - Top - End - #49
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    Default Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never

    I'd say the "templates" in the DMG are simple and few enough to get over with quickly and move on to the next, so we could do something more complicated or long afterwards.

    Besides, after this book we really do need a break.
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    Default Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never

    Quote Originally Posted by liquidformat View Post
    There are some that could reasonably get a +1 or maybe +2 like getting extra set of arms but others seem like maybe a straight exp cost similar to necropolitan could be reasonable, like having an extra set of legs... Others like the ability to dominate someone once a week are probably worth +1 LA until you get around level 7 ish, so amusingly a lot of them are great for LA buyoff if they had reasonable LA.

    Across the whole I think it could be a really fun little group to evaluate.
    You think the extra set of arms is among the top ones? Oh boy, you haven't seen wild shape 1/day Past Life, or the Vestigial Twins. These are, I think, easily +3 or more. But yeah, some of them are really underpowered (who puts an extra standard action per round at the same level as attacking your allies seemingly without control anyway?)
    Trying to resurrect the Negative LA thread, any comment and discussion are very welcome!


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  21. - Top - End - #51
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    Default Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never

    Quote Originally Posted by Beni-Kujaku View Post
    You think the extra set of arms is among the top ones? Oh boy, you haven't seen wild shape 1/day Past Life, or the Vestigial Twins. These are, I think, easily +3 or more. But yeah, some of them are really underpowered (who puts an extra standard action per round at the same level as attacking your allies seemingly without control anyway?)
    I have a feeling that most of those were intentionally crippled with LA just to keep them away from players.
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    Default Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never

    Quote Originally Posted by Beni-Kujaku View Post
    You think the extra set of arms is among the top ones? Oh boy, you haven't seen wild shape 1/day Past Life, or the Vestigial Twins. These are, I think, easily +3 or more. But yeah, some of them are really underpowered (who puts an extra standard action per round at the same level as attacking your allies seemingly without control anyway?)
    No the extra set of arms was just the very first one to come to mind and seems reasonable for +1... Yeah there are some crazy powerful ones in there and then some pretty worthless ones too.

    Going back to Slaughter Wight for a moment, at 18 RHD I don't think this requires an asterisk for uncapped spawn. Sure that is an issue at lower levels but once level 9 spells are on the table it isn't an issue and I don't think the asterisk is needed.
    Last edited by liquidformat; 2021-06-03 at 11:14 AM.

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    Default Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never

    I'm pretty sure there are magic items you can get that can start Wightpocalypses at this level, and not just the ones that bestow negative levels by holding them.
    Last edited by danielxcutter; 2021-06-03 at 11:25 AM.
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  24. - Top - End - #54
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    Default Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never

    Quote Originally Posted by Beni-Kujaku View Post
    About the abilities from the DMGII‚ I think we might need some sort of LA 1- ‚ since we can't reasonably assign LA+0 to pure advantages‚ but they very much do not make for even LA+1.
    Some of them would work as feats. Especially if you clarify that "caster level = character level" SLAs don't function if your caster level is below the minimum for spells of that level.

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    Default Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never

    Quote Originally Posted by danielxcutter View Post
    I have a feeling that most of those were intentionally crippled with LA just to keep them away from players.
    Well yeah. The book kind of outright admits as much.

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    Default Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never

    Quote Originally Posted by Troacctid View Post
    Well yeah. The book kind of outright admits as much.
    ...Man it’s been a while since I binged the sourcebooks.
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    Default Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never

    Quote Originally Posted by danielxcutter View Post
    ...Man it’s been a while since I binged the sourcebooks.
    It's fun to do it every once in a while you sometimes find fun little goofy stuff, like the alternate summoning rules in the DMG, turns your conjurer into a pokemon master.

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    Default Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never

    Quote Originally Posted by Troacctid View Post
    See, this is what -0 is for! 18 HD is just embarrassing for this, it's basically just an advanced wight.
    math brain activating

    A standard wight has 4 HD; a slaughter wight has 18. Standard wights can only advance to 8 HD, but we will ignore this limitation for the purpose of our thought experiment.

    The differences between basic and slaughter wights (aside from higher HD and the direct effects thereof—e.g. BaB, saves, feats) are: greater slam damage, Augmented Critical (increased threat range even before Improved Critical), no racial bonus on Move Silently checks, +12 Strength, +8 Dex, -2 Wis, +2 Cha. The advanced 14 hit dice a wight would receive only give it three additional ability points. Notably, natural armor is identical.

    The slaughter wight doesn't offer much, but its slam is significantly better (equivalent to a blunt longsword instead of a lethal sap), and its ability scores are way higher. Though it's a bit worse at sneaking.


    Quote Originally Posted by liquidformat View Post
    The issue with Anthropomorphic animals is mostly that the monster entries aren't always consistent with the rules put forth for the template.
    Also that there's like a hundred of them. Good golly.


    Quote Originally Posted by Prime32 View Post
    Some of them would work as feats. Especially if you clarify that "caster level = character level" SLAs don't function if your caster level is below the minimum for spells of that level.
    Or just add a minimum character level to the feat prerequisites.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Blade Wolf View Post
    Ah, thank you very much GreatWyrmGold, you obviously live up to that name with your intelligence and wisdom with that post.
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    Default Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never

    Had some technical difficulties on my end. Slaughter Wight is a clear -0. Slaymate is coming up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lycan 01 View Post
    Roland just endorsed a crack pairing?


    Did... did we break the universe?
    Quote Originally Posted by SassyQuatch View Post
    It is a major flaw in the game. Destroy a moon? Sure. Talk to somebody a hundred miles away, that's going to be difficult.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rizban View Post
    Realistically speaking... D&D style magic doesn't exist, so... let's ignore reality.

  30. - Top - End - #60
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    Default Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never

    Slaymate

    Size & Type: Small Undead
    Space/Reach: 5'/5'
    HD: 4
    Speed: 20'
    Ability Scores: Str +2, Dex +2, Con -, Int +0, Wis +2, Cha +4 - Net +10, no penalties
    Natural Armor: 4
    Natural Weapons: One Primary Bite (1d3 plus disease)
    Skill List: Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Spot
    Body Shape: Humanoid
    Speech (Languages): Yes (Common)
    CR: 2
    WotC LA: -
    Our LA: +0

    Every Necromancer wants a Slaymate, but would any Necromancer want to be a Slaymate?

    No. No they probably wouldn't. Four RHD and nothing casting-related to show for it aside from the Pale Aura you want it around for. But maybe a non-caster? Let's see.

    First the Pale Aura. In a 10' radius centered on the Slaymate, any Necromancy spell prepared or cast with metamagic uses a spell slot one level lower than normal. Note that this does not have the usual caveat that these abilities normally have that limits the reduction to the spell's original level. No mention of whether that's in total or per metamagic feat.

    Other than that... well, they have a supernatural disease that takes a day to incubate. 1d6 each of Con and Str damage on their bite, Charisma-based save.

    Yes, that's it. Instead of being one, go adopt a child and we'll all just pretend to not know how Slaymates are created.
    Last edited by Debatra; 2021-06-08 at 08:04 AM.
    Kaedanis Pyran, tai faernae.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lycan 01 View Post
    Roland just endorsed a crack pairing?


    Did... did we break the universe?
    Quote Originally Posted by SassyQuatch View Post
    It is a major flaw in the game. Destroy a moon? Sure. Talk to somebody a hundred miles away, that's going to be difficult.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rizban View Post
    Realistically speaking... D&D style magic doesn't exist, so... let's ignore reality.

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