The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never

[Debatra]

Using a Supernatural or Extraordinary ability is a Standard Action unless noted otherwise.

[Beni-Kujaku]

Using a Supernatural or Extraordinary ability is a Standard Action unless noted otherwise.

Even if it's forced? Do you have to use a standard action every 3d4 rounds or does the boggart just transform on its own, no action required?

[danielxcutter]

I mean, liches have (Su) DR and don't have to activate it every round as a standard action.

[Tzardok]

That's because DR is a permanently active ability. Unstable form, on the other hand, simply requires you to activate something that has to be activated at specific points of time.

[danielxcutter]

Honestly a lot of these feel poorly thought out, even more than the messy official statblocks.

Some are okay though, at least in terms of coherence.

[Troacctid]

What if you're knocked out? Do you still transform while you're unconscious? What about confusion or fear effects that force you to take other actions instead?

[Debatra]

I would assume the forced transformations don't require an action, but you shouldn't control what form you end up in for those.

Then again, as mentioned, there is nothing listed to actually resolve that. The above is just that: an assumption.

[Tzardok]

Y'know, when I read that ability the first time I misunderstood it and thought that it only goes for shapes other than the "main" shape. And if you spent too long in a single shape you were forced back into "main".

[PoeticallyPsyco]

Does a willing transformation reset the countdown?

[Thurbane]

Yeah, this thing is a bit of a hot mess.

Spoiler: For the Bee Gees fans

Show

Let's look at the chassis:

• Small Fey (Shapechanger)
• 6 RHD (d6 hp, poor BAB, two good saves, 6 skill points/"level")
• Speed 30 ft.
• +4 deflection to AC
• 2d6 electrical touch attack
• Confusion: 2 full rounds to activate, not entirely clear on the duration - is it only as long as the noise persists?
• Electrical bolt: ranged touch attack, 2d4 electrical damage, 1d4 round recharge.
• Deflection: see above.
• Invisibility: At will supernatural equivalent to an Invisibility spell, 3d4 round duration.
• Immune to electricity.
• Low-light vision.
• Magic immunity: to me, this reads just like the 3.0 immunity that things like most golems had. Take a look at the Mithral Golem for comparison.
• Tongues: as per the spell, but no big words or complicated sentences.
• Unstable form: assume the form of any small or tiny humanoid, monstrous humanoid, or humanoid-shaped fey. Also, assume a pseudo Will-o-Wisp form as well (compete with DR, flight etc.). The kicker is it must change form every 3d4 rounds. This is going to require a fair amount of DM adjudication. Here's what I would do for my game: have a table of small and tiny humanoids, fey, and monstrous humanoids, and throw the Will-o-Wisp form on there as well. If changing voluntarily, it costs a standard action, and the Boggart choses any form different than the current. If it's involuntary, it's a free action at the start of the Boggart's turn, and the DM (or player) rolls randomly on the table, re-rolling if current form pops up.
• Str -2, Dex +14, Con +4, Int +4, Wis +6, Cha +6: net +32, one small penalty.
• Small-ish but relatively useful racial skill list.

In it's natural form, small humanoid, so no gear issues there (apart from the obvious, when you change shapes). Inherent Tongues ability means no issues speaking/communicating.

Progression? I'd lean towards skill monkey/sneak attacker myself.

The chassis is basically all goodies and gravy, aside from the forced shapechange.

I'll go along with LA +2 for now.

[Debatra]

Does a willing transformation reset the countdown?

Presumably.

[Thurbane]

I wonder how Unstable Form would interact with Immunity to Transformation from binding Haagenti (ToM p.33)? Presumably you can return to Boggart form as a free action at the start of your turn after a forced change of shape?

How about Master of Many Forms capstone, Evershifting Form?

I also seem to recall a magic item that gives similar immunity/resistance to form altering magic, but having trouble finding it now...thought it was called an Amulet of Inviolable Form or similar, but I might be thinking of an earlier edition...

Fount it (them) Amulet of Inviolable Form (MIC p.69, 7 uses then gone) and the Ruby Cincture of Immutability (MIC p.131, 1/day).

[danielxcutter]

Should this need an * for “you really need to talk with the DM about how this works”? Because oh boy this is a mess.

[Debatra]

I must admit I'm tempted to go that route. It's usually reserved for things that will break the campaign, but it has been given to things that we just can't figure out how it works before.

[Beni-Kujaku]

Are we considering that the forced transformation is completely asterisked away?

[Metastachydium]

I must admit I'm tempted to go that route. It's usually reserved for things that will break the campaign, but it has been given to things that we just can't figure out how it works before.

I'd argue that an inadequately worded "ability" that may or may not make the critter unnecessarily hard to play would warrant an asterisk.

[Troacctid]

I'm just stuck thinking about the best way to figure out how many combat rounds it will take before you need to transform, because you have to figure out both the duration of your last shapeshift AND the number of rounds that have already elapsed as of the start of combat. Do you just roll 1d[[3d4]]?

[Caelestion]

Excellent ability modifiers, reasonable HD, good accompanying abilities - I'm comfortable with assigning this LA +2.

[Beni-Kujaku]

I'm just stuck thinking about the best way to figure out how many combat rounds it will take before you need to transform, because you have to figure out both the duration of your last shapeshift AND the number of rounds that have already elapsed as of the start of combat. Do you just roll 1d[[3d4]]?

No. 1d(3d4) assumes you have equal chance to be in any situation (I rolled X-Y-Z for my last transformation's duration), but it's not accurate. You have a higher chance to be in a longer transformation than a shorter one. So you should roll 1dX, where the law for X is P(X=d)=(d*P(3d4=d)) normalized to 1, which is an absolute nightmare to do manually.

If you want to program it and get a result, it's pretty simple: make a list with one 3, four 4s, ten 5s, twenty 6s, twenty-eight 7s, thirty-two 8s, thirty 9s, twenty 10s, eleven 11s and four 12s, choose one number from that list at random, then roll a die with that number of sides.

That, or you just roll 1d(3d4) because you don't want too much trouble and your average is almost the same (4.25 for 1d(3d4) and 4.5 for the exact method, and I'm impressed by the fact that it gives such a round average, which makes me think there's probably a simpler way to do it).

[PoeticallyPsyco]

I'd probably just roll 3d4 twice, and say the difference is how long until the next transformation. Very loose math, but it'll get the job done with minimal pain on my part.

[Lans]

Just morph every time the timer drops to 5, and odds are you'd at least have 5 rounds of combat

[Temotei]

+2 seems fair to me.

[liquidformat]

This thing is pretty awesome and there are a lot of cool and powerful forms like thorn and redcaps that are quite nasty, not to mention you have really nice ability scores. I think the best option is to hop directly into something like assassin prc. I think the best would be something with SA and cha based casting but can't think of anything off the top of my head. Also magic immunity makes your saves pretty meaningless. All and all I think +2 LA seems fine though this is probably at the high side.

It looks like you couldn't simply change say your hair/eye color to satisfy the issues with unstable form due to its wording and since it doesn't say otherwise your 'forced' shape change would be a standard action. Granted I think the asterisk comes into play in the weird situations where you are incapable of taking any action; like while asleep, stunned, Nauseated and so forth.

With that said like Thurbane points out taking some levels in binder and binding Haagenti seems viable likewise MoMFs Evershifting Form ability also seems viable though that requires wild shape which is a pane. Taking all 5 levels of warshaper also bump you down to taking move action for your shape change which is helpful and the addition of Quick Change bumps it into a free action.

Edit: It is unclear if it takes an action to change form, but couldn't you transform into a brownie, hide in plain sight using your very high dexterity bonus, then change into a Thorn and sneak attack immediately without having to use invisibility?

Unfortunately you don't gain any of the special qualities of the form only the special attacks so can't use Brownie's hide in plain sight unless you take enough levels of MoMFs.

[Debatra]

We seem to have come to a fairly conclusive +2 here.

I don't think this is quite worth an asterisk, but it should definitely have a "You really need to discuss this one with your DM" note.

In a certain sense, the asterisk marks that as well, but we've always had that also mean the creature is rated as if the issue in question didn't exist. Plus, we've had monsters with odd issues rated without an asterisk before (or at least with unrelated asterisks), with the assumption that any campaign that lets you play these creatures would also accommodate your existence. Aquatic campaigns for things that need to stay underwater, creatures that are far too large to fit in a standard dungeon, (non-spawn-creating) Vampires being generally capable of avoiding sunlight (though perhaps not without some risk of exposure), etc.

Bonelurker is up next. And as you can probably guess from us having reached the word "bone" alphabetically, the next few are some flavor of skeletal undead.

[Debatra]

Bone Lurker

Size & Type: Large Undead
Space/Reach: 5x10'/5'
HD: 3
Speed: 20', Fly 30' (Poor)
Ability Scores: Str +10, Dex +0, Con -, Int -, Wis +0, Cha +0 - Net +10, no penalties
Natural Armor: 3
Natural Weapons: One Primary Slam (1d8)
Skill List: - (Skill Points gained as a Construct)
Body Shape: "These undead creatures appear as portcullises or gridwork-curtains created from interlaced human and beast bones adorned with sharp bone spurs."
Speech (Languages): No
CR: 2
WotC LA: -
Our LA: +0

So you can make these with Animate Dead, though it takes "three corpses" to do so. Not "three corpses of humanoid creatures". Not "three corpses of X-size creatures". Just "three corpses". That fly you just swatted? Find two more.

So I imagine we all know undead fairly well by now after going through LM so recently. Skeletal undead generally get cold immunity, and the Bone Lurker is no exception. While it's not marked as a bonus feat, these mindless creatures nonetheless have Improved Initiative. I went back and checked, and the Skeleton statblocks don't mark it with the usual B either, so it would be safe to say you would get the bonus feat. On top of that, instead of DR, they take half damage from piercing and slashing weapons. (I have been informed that is just how 3.0 Skeletons worked - presumably this would be 5/bludgeoning now, but there is technically no official update.) You only need two more RHD to become Huge.

You get Improved Grab on your Slam for anything smaller than you, and Constrict for an additional 1d8. The grapple is the least of your victim's worries though, as any creature you hit with your Slam must also make a Fortitude save or be paralyzed for 1d6+2 minutes.

[Troacctid]

This is honestly pretty spicy for 3 RHD. I could see giving it either +1* or +0* (asterisked for being in thrall to your creator), with the mindlessness and the non-standard body shape really being the main sticking points here. From the description, it sounds like an amorphous body shape, which means no magic item slots at all, and that's a very real drawback. Given that, I think I'm more inclined towards +0*.

[Debatra]

I hadn't really thought of the "obeying the orders of their master" bit being relevant. I mean, Skeletons didn't get asterisked just because Animate Dead gives you control over what you create. I just figured that was more flavor text because they're mindless.

[Tzardok]

On top of that, instead of DR, they take half damage from piercing and slashing weapons.

That's because it's a 3.0 stat block. 3.0 skeletons used the same terminology.

Edit: aggree with the thralldom being flavourtext.

[Lilapop]

On top of that, instead of DR, they take half damage from piercing and slashing weapons.

That's just how 3.0 skeletons did it. Shouldn't we update this to the 3.5 standard of 5/bludg, or are we assuming it stays as-is because there is no update booklet?



I hereby officially accuse Tzardok of being a swordsage.

[danielxcutter]

I vote for "adjust trait to match skeletons" thing, especially since this are supposed to be like CR 2 creatures. Then again at that level DR 5/bludgeoning might reduce damage more than halving it...