Results 91 to 120 of 1467
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2021-06-06, 02:46 AM (ISO 8601)Ogre in the Playground
- Join Date
- May 2013
Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never
Extend and Widen have a few uses, particularly at lower levels and in cases where you aren't killing everything in the fight. An Extended Enervate will inflict permanent negative levels, for instance, and there's a few one-rounders that become much more attractive save-or-suck actions when you get a second. Also Maximize Poison for hilarious amounts of Con damage. 5 hp/hd on the spot, taking a huge chunk out of most things. Also Retributive Spell for a weird +1, makes a single-target spell into an Immediate Action to cast on someone who hit you in melee.
Originally Posted by danielxcutter
Echoing Spell is, as mentioned, nuts, lets you cast a bunch more Animate Deads from a single slot.
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2021-06-06, 02:53 AM (ISO 8601)Troll in the Playground
- Join Date
- Mar 2010
- Location
- Kaeda
- Gender
Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never
Reach Animate Dead is deceptively-useful for mid-combat minionmancy. Though you'll probably prefer either a Rod or a level of Archmage/Heirophant over taking the actual feat. I had a dungeon boss pull that trick once.
Last edited by Debatra; 2021-06-06 at 02:54 AM.
Kaedanis Pyran, tai faernae.
The LA Assignment Threads: Attempting to Make Monsters Playable Since 2016
My Homebrewer's Extended Signature
Spoiler: Quotes Originally Posted by Lycan 01
Roland just endorsed a crack pairing?
Did... did we break the universe?
Originally Posted by SassyQuatch
Originally Posted by Rizban
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2021-06-06, 03:07 AM (ISO 8601)Titan in the Playground
- Join Date
- Jul 2016
- Location
- Seoul
- Gender
Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never
Shame that undead minionmancy drops off sharply at higher levels, really. Preventing PCs from getting it is one thing, making it useless for BBEGs is another really. Because wow, the Create Greater Undead list sucks.
Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Ao3 FanFiction.net DeviantArt
We also have a TvTropes page!
Currently playing: Red Hand of Doom(campaign journal)Campaign still going on, but journal discontinued until further notice.
Extended sig here. Originally Posted by Squire Doodad
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2021-06-06, 03:54 AM (ISO 8601)Titan in the Playground
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- Location
- Terra Australis
- Gender
Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never
Song of the Dead feat from Dragon Compendium is a +1 metamagic feat that alters mind-affecting spells so that they can affect intelligent (only). It also changes the spell school to Necromancy. The wording of the feat implies that it only works prepared spells, but I think that was fixed in errata.
So, oddly enough, a Slaymate might be a nice companion for a Beguiler or Enchanter.My winning competition entries: Kinvig Arrumskor | The Great Pumpkinhead | Wynfrith d'Acker
Torn-City - Massively multiplayer online browser based crime RPG
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2021-06-06, 05:41 AM (ISO 8601)Orc in the Playground
- Join Date
- Sep 2013
Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never
Having one of these stick around as a companion to your necromancer might be better than a 4 HD, CR4 frontliner.
But as a PC in its own right, I'd rather use one of my Y+1/day of spell level X for the metamagic spell, AND still have all my Z+1/day of SL X-1 left, AND have access to SL X+1 AND SL X+2 in the first place, than to use one of my Z/day, have "all" my Y/day of SL X, and no access to SL X+1 or SL X+2. All of this at a CL difference of 4. That metamagic reduction is so not worth dropping four levels of spellcasting progression.
And on any other role (carrying the bonus for your spellcaster buddy - keep in mind the two of you will have to stay close together, which isn't really guaranteed when you're playing different roles), the other bonuses are either too unfocused to be a relevant boon to any normal build, and MAD builds would rather reduce MADness, making the bonuses less valuable in the process.
To summarize, the slaymate's features are way worse than four class levels worth of class features. -0.
I do enjoy the brat having a diseased bite though. Children are dis-gus-täng.
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2021-06-06, 07:22 AM (ISO 8601)Ogre in the Playground
- Join Date
- May 2009
- Location
- In a castle under the sea
- Gender
Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never
Probably just the main one; I'm pretty sure there are at least three negative LA threads, only one of which is active, and none of which have even finished the Monster Manual. If we decide to run more than one, maybe we can experiment with negative LA's and see how that works out. Originally Posted by PoeticallyPsyco
I've got a rough draft of the rules for a hypothetical LA-Assignment-Thread Character Contest [working title] written up. Thoughts?
SpoilerMonster Mash
This competition is for monstrous adventurers, in part to experiment with the possibilities they offer and in part to make use of the revised level adjustments which Inevitability and Debatra have spent five years assigning.
Adventurers designed for this contest must be of a monstrous race. For the purpose of this contest, “monstrous race” excludes all races designed for PC use, unless their level adjustment has been increased by one or more templates.
“Monstrous race” is a somewhat vague category, by necessity. No simple set of rules can exclude every single PC race without also excluding some genuine monsters. Entries which flout this rule with borderline-monstrous races risk a penalty to their Monstrosity score.
For the purpose of this competition, all races use the level adjustments listed in the LA Assignment Archive. Races with a -0 level adjustment are treated as if they had a +0 level adjustment. Monsters not yet rated may not be used.
If a race’s level adjustment includes an asterisk, some of the monster’s abilities will be removed, such as a wight’s spawn creation, a dryad’s tree dependency, or a genie’s wishes. Consult individual entries to see what is lost.
Contestants
You will need to present a full build for your entry, from its first level to level 20. Also required is a rundown of how your build works at lower levels, to demonstrate that it is a functional character that could be played in a real game.
Traditionally participants in similar competitions give "snapshots" of tactics and abilities at levels 5, 10, 15, and 20. Depending on the monstrous race chosen, your character may be unavailable at lower levels; in that case, instead give snapshots at various levels where it is playable. If the monster’s
Kitchen/Secret Laboratory/??? [need fun thematic name]
32 point-buy is the presumed creation method.
If you do use a different point-buy, please make your case for its necessity in your entry. Keep in mind that for using exceptionally large or small point-buys may warrant deductions in elegance and/or power.
Competitors will be free to use any official 1st party (WotC) 3.5 rulebook in constructing their builds. Dragon Compendium is allowed, but Dragon magazine is disallowed. Unearthed Arcana is allowed. Unupdated 3.0 materials, as well as web exclusives by WotC are expressly allowed, but take care to verify that an updated version did not appear in print elsewhere, as this may cause an Elegance deduction at the judges' discretion.
NB: Official Errata and 3.5 updates to 3.0 content are considered valid regardless of whether their sources would otherwise be legal. This includes the 3.5 update of Oriental Adventures given in Dragon Magazine, and the 3.5 updates of Dragonlance Campaign Setting content given in later third party Dragonlance books.
Alternate rule systems from UA such as gestalt or Generic Classes are not allowed, as they create a different playing field. Item Familiars and Taint are also banned from the competition. Leadership and all similar abilities are banned for sanity reasons. Builds that are fully monstrous are allowed at no penalty.
Bans:
Any material that grants you leadership without you specifically taking it should be ignored and may not be traded away for another feat or ACF. Undead Leadership and Dragon Cohort are likewise banned. Wild Cohort and Obtain Familiar are allowed. If you are not sure if a specific feat violates the 'no leadership' rule, err on the side of caution, or ask me.
However, Leadership may be taken to qualify for another feat or class (such as the Great Captain feat or Legendary Leader prestige class), though a character still doesn't get its usual benefit in those cases. This is to allow characters to access unproblematic material that'd otherwise be made unavailable because of the Leadership ban.
Because this contest involves creating a build up to level 20, no race with a base ECL higher than 20 is allowed.
The Dragonlance Campaign Setting is allowed, but the subsequent books for Dragonlance are considered 3rd party, and are therefore not eligible, despite the "WotC approved" status of those books. The same holds for Oriental Adventures (1st party) and the subsequent Rokugan books (3rd party).
The Illithid Savant prestige class is specifically banned. You are free to write mind flayer entries as gaining their class levels, feats, etc from eating brains, but the Savant class itself is too open-ended and ripe for abuse.
Deadlines
Judging
Judging will be based on the following criteria, with each build rated on a scale from 1 (very poor) to 5 (exemplary) in each area: Originality, Power, Elegance, and Monstrosity.
Scores of zero may be applied in cases of exceptional misconduct (plagiarism earns a 0 in Originality, failure to meet prerequisites earns a 0 in Elegance, non-monstrous races earn a 0 in Monstrosity, etc); otherwise, all entries should receive at least one full point in each category.
- Originality: Is it unexpected or novel?
- Power: Can it do what the concept asks of it? Is this a powerfully-built character?
- Elegance: Is it mechanically straighforward or “pretty”?
- Monstrosity: Is the monstrous character’s race used?
Elegance and Monstrosity demand further elaboration.
Elegance measures how skillfully you put your build together, and whether you sacrificed flavor for power. Use of flaws is considered in poor taste, and judges are asked to take a dim view of this option, taking it into account while grading. Other things that will cause penalties here are excessive multi-classing, and classes that don't fit the concept.
A legal source's relative obscurity should not be considered as penalizing Elegance, excepting the aforementioned issues with Unearthed Arcana. Using conflicting setting material may result in a penalty to Elegance at the judges' discretion, but a book's relative obscurity may not. In that same vein, drawing solely from the Core 3 (and the d20 SRD) should not be punished for lacking Originality.
Monstrosity measures how necessary the entry’s monster race was to the submission. We want to build monstrous adventurers here, not standard Iron Chef builds with a few racial hit dice at the start. Builds which could not function without the monstrous features of their race earn high Monstrosity scores, while builds which could work on any PC race with no changes will take Monstrosity penalties. Builds using non-monstrous races will also take penalties to Monstrosity.
Presentation
Due to concerns about standardizing entry format, I'd like everyone to try to use the following table for their entry.
SpoilerNAME OF ENTRY
Level Class Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Skills Feats Class Features 1st New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 2nd New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 3rd New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 4th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 5th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 6th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 7th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 8th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 9th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 10th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 11th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 12th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 13th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 14th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 15th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 16th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 17th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 18th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 19th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 20th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
Code immediately below (spoiler).Spoiler[table="class: head alt1 alt2"]
[tr]
[th][B]Level[/B][/th]
[th][B]Class[/B][/th]
[th][B]Base Attack Bonus[/B][/th]
[th][B]Fort Save[/B][/th]
[th][B]Ref Save[/B][/th]
[th][B]Will Save[/B][/th]
[th][B]Skills[/B][/th]
[th][B]Feats[/B][/th]
[th][B]Class Features[/B][/th]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]1st[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]2nd[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]3rd[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]4th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]5th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]6th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]7th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]8th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]9th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]10th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]11th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]12th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]13th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]14th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]15th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]16th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]17th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]18th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]19th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]20th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]
For entries with spellcasting, use the following table for Spells per day and Spells Known. (Spells Known only if necessary, i.e. Sorcerer or Bard, but not Wizard or Warmage)
SpoilerSpells per Day/Spells Known
Code immediately below (spoiler)Level 0lvl 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th 1st - - - - - - - - - - 2nd - - - - - - - - - - 3rd - - - - - - - - - - 4th - - - - - - - - - - 5th - - - - - - - - - - 6th - - - - - - - - - - 7th - - - - - - - - - - 8th - - - - - - - - - - 9th - - - - - - - - - - 10th - - - - - - - - - - 11th - - - - - - - - - - 12th - - - - - - - - - - 13th - - - - - - - - - - 14th - - - - - - - - - - 15th - - - - - - - - - - 16th - - - - - - - - - - 17th - - - - - - - - - - 18th - - - - - - - - - - 19th - - - - - - - - - - 20th - - - - - - - - - - Spoiler[B]Spells per Day/Spells Known[/B]
[table="class:head alt1 alt2"]
[tr]
[th][B]Level[/B][/th]
[th][B]0lvl[/B][/th]
[th][B]1st[/B][/th]
[th][B]2nd[/B][/th]
[th][B]3rd[/B][/th]
[th][B]4th[/B][/th]
[th][B]5th[/B][/th]
[th][B]6th[/B][/th]
[th][B]7th[/B][/th]
[th][B]8th[/B][/th]
[th][B]9th[/B][/th]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]1st[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]2nd[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]3rd[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]4th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]5th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]6th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]7th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]8th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]9th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]10th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]11th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]12th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]13th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]14th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]15th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]16th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]17th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]18th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]19th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]20th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]
For other systems (Psionics, ToB, Incarnum, etc.) keep track of PP/maneuvers/essentia separately, preferably in a nice neat list.
Speculation
Please don’t post or speculate on possible builds until the reveal, in order to avoid spoiling the surprise if a particular competitor is producing a build along those lines.
Once builds are revealed, please do not comment on errors or rules issues on entries unless you are a judge. If you have such a comment, wait until the final reveal to post it.
Submission
To standardize Entries, please use this format when sending it in:
PM: GreatWyrmGold
Subject: [competition name], Name of your Entry
For Revisions and disputes, do the same thing. It makes it easier for me finding the entries in my mail box.
More questions? PM me with [competition name] Questions in the header.
Houserules/Clarifications
D&D 3.5 is far from a perfect system, and inflated level adjustments are far from the only example of this. Many rules are ambiguous, absent, or just badly-written. I make no claim to fixing the system, but feel some “house rules” are in order:
Spoiler
[list][*]All creatures are proficient with any natural weapons they may have or acquire.[*]Bonus feats that are granted even if you do not meet the prerequisites do not require you to meet the prerequisites in order to use.[*]Able Learner's benefit applies to the level you take it.[*]Weapons from soulmelds are considered to be magic weapons.[*]Unarmed Swordsage grants Improved Unarmed Strike at level 1.[*]Spelltouched feats are legal and can be taken just like any other feat when you meet the prerequisites and have the feat slot available.[*]Possessing innate spellcasting from your race is treated as a spellcasting class for the purposes of prestige classes which provide new spells per day, an increase in caster level, and spells known (if applicable) as if you had gained a level in a spellcasting class to which you belonged before adding the prestige class level.
Acknowledgments
Much of the language in these rules was inspired or directly copied from the rules for the Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground and/or Villainous Competition, both of which are inspirations for this contest. In addition, this contest would not be possible without the hard work of Inevitability and Debatra, re-assessing entire books’ worth of monsters and templates.
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2021-06-06, 07:29 AM (ISO 8601)Troll in the Playground
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Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never
The votes so far:
+0* (Pale Aura) - Thurbane
+0 - Morphic tide, Lans, Tzardok, Lapak, Efrate
-0 - Beni-Kujaku, Remuko, LilapopLast edited by Debatra; 2021-06-06 at 02:53 PM.
Kaedanis Pyran, tai faernae.
The LA Assignment Threads: Attempting to Make Monsters Playable Since 2016
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Spoiler: Quotes Originally Posted by Lycan 01
Roland just endorsed a crack pairing?
Did... did we break the universe? Originally Posted by SassyQuatch
Originally Posted by Rizban
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2021-06-06, 07:32 AM (ISO 8601)Ogre in the Playground
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Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never
I'll add my vote to +0.
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2021-06-06, 07:42 AM (ISO 8601)Ogre in the Playground
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Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never
I think there's enough of an argument for +0; it can be a decent build on its own and in the right party it's a small but definite advantage, which tips the scales for me. FWIW, Morphic tide's breakdown in particular was convincing.
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2021-06-06, 08:23 AM (ISO 8601)Bugbear in the Playground
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Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never
+0 from me as well.
Minionmancy can keep up, bone creatures and animate dread warrior are useful at all levels. Both allow you to essentially add whatever you kill as permanent minions with no loss of abilities. Kill a 15th level cleric? Animate dread warrior and its now your slave. No limits on number controlled. No check for control.
And incoporeal undead maintain usefulness quite late. Many thinga just cannot deal with it.
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2021-06-06, 09:38 AM (ISO 8601)Titan in the Playground
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Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never
You get spells four levels later. I’m not seeing how any better this is using necromancy itself. Originally Posted by Efrate
Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Ao3 FanFiction.net DeviantArt
We also have a TvTropes page!
Currently playing: Red Hand of Doom(campaign journal)Campaign still going on, but journal discontinued until further notice.
Extended sig here. Originally Posted by Squire Doodad
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2021-06-06, 01:26 PM (ISO 8601)Ogre in the Playground
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Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never
There are four, actually: the three inactive ones, including one that didn't reach the 2-page treshold, and mine (by the way, check it out! The more comments, the merrier!), with multiple methods to negatively adjust levels. If we are to use them as materials, then we will have to choose a preferred method (this part is easy, RHD reduction is the one method that has the slightest chance of being viable in a serious optimization contest), and to harmonize the threads (with the exception of the animated objects, the negative LA threads have never covered monsters that were already covered in previous negative LA threads, leading to some of them only getting a rating with a questionable method). But I agree that the main restriction is the number of creatures reviewed as of now. Having such a contest would be a good test of the validity of my, GWG's and Martixy's ratings: if everybody chooses -0 monsters as their character, that's a good sign that we should put them at higher RHD. Originally Posted by GreatWyrmGold
For the rules for Monster Mash:
All in all, pretty good and simple sets of rules. Why 32 point-buy when most other competitions play with 30 points? Also, you mentioned Leadership banned twice (I agree it probably deserves it ^^) and might consider banning the beholder mage prestige class, which can break the game really easily too, even if not at the same level as Illithid Savant. Finally, mention the asterisks. How do you plan on handling them. I think something on the line of "Abilities from the monster specifically noted as warranting the asterisk in the thread post are just considered null and non-existent. If the monster is asterisked, but with no single ability mentioned, ask the chair what ability was meant."
Finally, add a paragraph on the secret ingredient. I know you want to let people as free as possible, but limitations really do breed creativity.Resurrecting the Negative LA thread, comments and discussion are very welcome!
Do you want to build monstrous characters with reasonable LA? Join the Monster Mash! Currently, round XII: One-Punch Monster!!! Come judge single-strike entries!
Nice find! Have a cookie!
Searchable spreadsheet of 3.5 monsters by abilities, now with all online monsters
Originally Posted by H_H_F_F
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2021-06-06, 02:23 PM (ISO 8601)Ogre in the Playground
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Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never
+2 to four scores, +4 Cha, and a nonability? Where are you getting MAD being a big problem, your 14s in Str, Dex, and Wis are 16s, and your 16s are 18s. You could actually afford Str 18/Dex 14/Wis 14/Cha 20 on 28 point-buy if you want to be a frontline-focused Paladin. On the Elite Array, you can have 17 Str, 18 Cha, 15 Dex, 14 Wis, and 10 Int. Or even go Int 13/Wis 12 for access some further bodygard functions while still having spellcasting the first few levels, though being Small cuts into most of them. Originally Posted by Lilapop
Look at my example case earlier. Can you tell me how that is LA -0? When you have a flat +5 AC, drop a +6 Con item (unless it's a Belt of Magnificence for your MADhouse) to invest in making up for your ~25% less health, under the assumption you self-heal with just your advantage on Deadly Touch instead of calling the whole thing a personal HP bank, and damage being a wash from your bonus attack?Last edited by Morphic tide; 2021-06-06 at 02:25 PM.
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2021-06-06, 03:33 PM (ISO 8601)Titan in the Playground
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Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never
Looks good to me, at a glance. Originally Posted by GreatWyrmGold
My winning competition entries: Kinvig Arrumskor | The Great Pumpkinhead | Wynfrith d'Acker
Torn-City - Massively multiplayer online browser based crime RPG
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2021-06-06, 05:36 PM (ISO 8601)Ogre in the Playground
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Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never
Because the thread I copied it from said 32 points. Heck if I remember which that was (it was one of the Iron Chef ones, but there's more than a hundred of those). Originally Posted by Beni-Kujaku
That's because I edited it good.Also, you mentioned Leadership banned twice (I agree it probably deserves it ^^)
Ooh. Yeah, didn't think of that.and might consider banning the beholder mage prestige class, which can break the game really easily too, even if not at the same level as Illithid Savant.
I'm pretty sure I mentioned something about that? Unless I typed it, then decided to replace it but forgot to type the new bit, because I edited it good?Finally, mention the asterisks. How do you plan on handling them. I think something on the line of "Abilities from the monster specifically noted as warranting the asterisk in the thread post are just considered null and non-existent. If the monster is asterisked, but with no single ability mentioned, ask the chair what ability was meant."
Look, those tables in the middle make proofreading a chore in a text editor.
Well, yeah. But I don't have a theme in mind, and was considering just not having on the first round. (It's something I'd ask the thread about once I actually had a properly proofed set of rules.)Finally, add a paragraph on the secret ingredient. I know you want to let people as free as possible, but limitations really do breed creativity.
Sorry to pluck this out of context, but the general consensus seems to be that losing out on Constitution (and with it a bunch of easy ways to increase HP) makes it more expensive/difficult to tank, not less? Originally Posted by Morphic tide
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2021-06-06, 06:16 PM (ISO 8601)Troll in the Playground
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Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never
Okay guys, take it to its own thread.
Kaedanis Pyran, tai faernae.
The LA Assignment Threads: Attempting to Make Monsters Playable Since 2016
My Homebrewer's Extended Signature
Spoiler: Quotes Originally Posted by Lycan 01
Roland just endorsed a crack pairing?
Did... did we break the universe? Originally Posted by SassyQuatch
Originally Posted by Rizban
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2021-06-06, 06:17 PM (ISO 8601)Ogre in the Playground
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Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never
I think what they're getting at is yes, you have less health, but since you can't use the money the way a 'normal' tank would on a +6 CON item (which makes up part of that difference,) spend it in some other way that benefits your tankiness - a miss chance, punch up your regular or touch AC beyond what the normal tank would invest in, snag a Ring of Evasion, etc. Originally Posted by GreatWyrmGold
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2021-06-06, 07:09 PM (ISO 8601)Ogre in the Playground
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Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never
Yes, but it's not a farce of a comparison to make, since you have Natural Armor taking some of the edge off and I'm attributing the Deadly Touch advantage as HP in the tank. Scrounging ~40 hp from those mechanics with full hit dice isn't that hard, you just need 2hp/hd from somewhere to get it nearly perfectly evened out. Originally Posted by GreatWyrmGold
Last edited by Morphic tide; 2021-06-06 at 07:10 PM.
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2021-06-06, 09:39 PM (ISO 8601)Titan in the Playground
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Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never
And getting 2 HP/HD is easy? Besides, it’s not like a normal character couldn’t.
Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Ao3 FanFiction.net DeviantArt
We also have a TvTropes page!
Currently playing: Red Hand of Doom(campaign journal)Campaign still going on, but journal discontinued until further notice.
Extended sig here. Originally Posted by Squire Doodad
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2021-06-06, 10:03 PM (ISO 8601)Titan in the Playground
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Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never
I mean, it kind of is, yeah? Just take Improved Toughness and get a shroud companion spirit. You can throw in an amulet of tears for good measure if you want. Originally Posted by danielxcutter
Rhymes with "Protracted."
Handbooks: The Warlockopedia | The Warmagepedia (WIP) | Tier List (2019 Update)
Spreadsheets: Spellcasting classes | Deities | Useful items
Homebrew: Gestalt Theurge | Fighter and Monk fixes | Warlock stuff | Houserules and quick fixes
Original Fiction: The Wizard's Familiar
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2021-06-06, 10:11 PM (ISO 8601)Titan in the Playground
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Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never
Yeah, but normal PCs can do that anyways. Originally Posted by Troacctid
Also what’s a shroud companion spirit again?Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Ao3 FanFiction.net DeviantArt
We also have a TvTropes page!
Currently playing: Red Hand of Doom(campaign journal)Campaign still going on, but journal discontinued until further notice.
Extended sig here. Originally Posted by Squire Doodad
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2021-06-06, 10:14 PM (ISO 8601)Ogre in the Playground
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Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never
Alright, I guess the competition has officially started? Originally Posted by Debatra
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2021-06-06, 10:33 PM (ISO 8601)Titan in the Playground
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Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never
Anyone can pay gold and xp to do a ritual to create one. At the second tier (costs 1,000 xp and 1,050 gp per person), it grants all members of the party who've bought into it a continuous gentle repose effect and the ability to use false life (Sp) 1/day, as well as one of four general benefit packages (communication, spell storage, healing, or transference). Originally Posted by danielxcutter
Rhymes with "Protracted."
Handbooks: The Warlockopedia | The Warmagepedia (WIP) | Tier List (2019 Update)
Spreadsheets: Spellcasting classes | Deities | Useful items
Homebrew: Gestalt Theurge | Fighter and Monk fixes | Warlock stuff | Houserules and quick fixes
Original Fiction: The Wizard's Familiar
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2021-06-08, 08:04 AM (ISO 8601)Troll in the Playground
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Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never
Slaymate is +0. Spectral Lyrist coming up.
Kaedanis Pyran, tai faernae.
The LA Assignment Threads: Attempting to Make Monsters Playable Since 2016
My Homebrewer's Extended Signature
Spoiler: Quotes Originally Posted by Lycan 01
Roland just endorsed a crack pairing?
Did... did we break the universe? Originally Posted by SassyQuatch
Originally Posted by Rizban
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2021-06-08, 08:24 AM (ISO 8601)Troll in the Playground
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Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never
Spectral Lyrist
Size & Type: Medium Undead (Incorporeal)
Space/Reach: 5'/5'
HD: 6
Speed: Fly 60' (Good)
Ability Scores: Str -, Dex +4, Con -, Int +2, Wis +4, Cha +6 - Net +16, no penalties
Natural Armor: 5 (+Cha to Deflection)
Natural Weapons: Incorporeal Touch (1d6 Charisma Drain)
Skill List: Bluff, Diplomacy, Disguise, Intimidate, Listen, Perform (Sing), Spot
Body Shape: Humanoid
Speech (Languages): Yes (Common, "plus one other language common to Humanoids in its environment, such as Dwarven, Elven, Goblin, or Orc")
CR: 4
WotC LA: -
Our LA: +0* (Uncapped Charisma Boosting)
Whenever a Spectral Lyrist drains a target's Charisma, they get five temporary HP and a single temporary point of Charisma (each of which last an hour). While it's a rare ability, we've asterisked things like this before because the lack of a cap makes it potentially abusable. (Such as the Shambling Mound.) Carve out the Charisma boosting but leave the rest untouched.
Speaking of the rest, that Charisma Drain isn't automatic. It only works on living creatures, and allows a Charisma-based Fortitude save to avoid it. This is also how it satisfies its Inescapable Craving for Charisma.
Alter Appearance lets it do as the name implies once per round as a free action. It can appear as any Medium Humanoid, gaining the standard +10 to Disguise checks those abilities tend to give. Anyone that fails to beat their Disguise check doesn't realize the Lyrist is incorporeal "until an attack passes harmlessly through the [Spectral Lyrist]". Presumably walking through walls would also give it away.
Finally, it can use Bardic Music six times per day to Fascinate and Suggest, just as a Bard can. Note that this is not explicitly based on its HD, so advancing it to seven won't actually get it another Music use. It also doesn't explicitly stack with normal Bardic Music; so, for example, a Spectral Lyrist 6/Bard 1 most likely can't Inspire Competence.Last edited by Debatra; 2021-06-27 at 09:37 AM.
Kaedanis Pyran, tai faernae.
The LA Assignment Threads: Attempting to Make Monsters Playable Since 2016
My Homebrewer's Extended Signature
Spoiler: Quotes Originally Posted by Lycan 01
Roland just endorsed a crack pairing?
Did... did we break the universe? Originally Posted by SassyQuatch
Originally Posted by Rizban
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2021-06-08, 08:29 AM (ISO 8601)Titan in the Playground
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Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never
This is… Well, it’s more utility than a Shadow I guess?
Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Ao3 FanFiction.net DeviantArt
We also have a TvTropes page!
Currently playing: Red Hand of Doom(campaign journal)Campaign still going on, but journal discontinued until further notice.
Extended sig here. Originally Posted by Squire Doodad
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2021-06-08, 03:41 PM (ISO 8601)Ogre in the Playground
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Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never
They are actual proper Bardic Music uses, so you qualify for Dirgesinger, Stormsinger, Seeker of the Song, and any other Bard PRCs that ask for just "Bardic Music" uses rather than Inspire Courage in particular, and will count as uses should you take levels of Bard, so you're only behind on what you use it for rather than how many times you can use it. The Charisma drain qualifies you for Necrotic Reserve, which gives you a buffer of one instance of damage before being destroyed.
In exchange for being behind two spell levels (this is The Big Ouch) +1 Inspire Courage, Inspire Greatness coming on at 15, and never getting Inspire Heroics or Mass Suggestion, you have all the wonders of being an Incorporeal Undead, +5 Natural Armor in the circumstance that comes up, Charisma to Deflection, +4 Dexterity, +2 Intelligence, +4 Wisdom, +6 Charisma, a Touch attack ability drain that goes after one of the most common dump stats. Who decidedly lacks the face-role interrupting matter of looking Undead, and in fact gets +10 to Disguise checks to further avoid suspicion when taking advantage of being Incorporeal to be where they shouldn't.
I reiterate, you are an Incorporeal Undead. By rule your Deflection bonus and Concentration are Charisma based. You have two nonabilities that are secondary stats to many Bards in the first place, with Constitution's role being almost always covered by just how much of a pain you are to damage by being Incorporeal. You could also technically go Swordsage and/or Warblade for Tiger Claw and squeeze for attacks to maximize Charisma damage iterations and try to Charisma-drain anything fighting you into a coma, but then you need something else going on to use your Charisma modifier. Possibly a Tashalatora setup with a few Wilder levels to have Power dump?
...Actually, can you Full Attack with these Touch Attach effects or duplicate them with the Tiger Claw Maneuvers? Because 6 levels is nasty stuff for pretty much any progression but ToB, and you're Incorporeal so you're rather harshly penalized on the normal value proposition. This seems to be questionable in the common space of "Where Do You Go?" because there's not quite anything that you smoothly enter afterwards.
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2021-06-08, 05:15 PM (ISO 8601)Ogre in the Playground
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Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never
Most prestige classes that improve bardic music say that the levels stack with bard levels to determine the number of uses. What happens if you have no bard level?
Resurrecting the Negative LA thread, comments and discussion are very welcome!
Do you want to build monstrous characters with reasonable LA? Join the Monster Mash! Currently, round XII: One-Punch Monster!!! Come judge single-strike entries!
Nice find! Have a cookie!
Searchable spreadsheet of 3.5 monsters by abilities, now with all online monsters
Originally Posted by H_H_F_F
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2021-06-08, 05:16 PM (ISO 8601)Titan in the Playground
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Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never
The obvious answer to "Where do you go?" is "Into a prestige class." My first thought would be to take a level of warrior skald and then go into war chanter. Another option is, of course, ur-priest, making use of that +4 Wisdom. A slightly late entry into sublime chord is viable too—if this is +0 LA, then five levels of wizard (or, even better, sha'ir) gets you there only a level behind a normal bard. Oh, and how about rogue? You can sneak attack with your Charisma drain touch! That seems very nice. Or maybe marshal, or binder...honestly, with these ability mods, I think you have a lot of potential paths.
We can also compare it to other incorporeal undead. Shadows have 3 HD and ended up with +3 LA in spite of having substantially worse stats. Allips were +3 as well, with 4 HD—again, worse stats. Wraiths, with 5 HD, are probably the closest comparison, and they ended up with +2 LA. I think the spectral lyrist is essentially the same as or better than the wraith for our purposes, and I would be loath to put it at a lower ECL, which means it has to be at least +1; however, since it's clearly stronger than the ECL 7 wraith (IMO) and very close to the ECL 8 spectre, I think the best place for it is ECL 8, which means LA +2*.Last edited by Troacctid; 2021-06-08 at 05:18 PM.
Rhymes with "Protracted."
Handbooks: The Warlockopedia | The Warmagepedia (WIP) | Tier List (2019 Update)
Spreadsheets: Spellcasting classes | Deities | Useful items
Homebrew: Gestalt Theurge | Fighter and Monk fixes | Warlock stuff | Houserules and quick fixes
Original Fiction: The Wizard's Familiar
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2021-06-08, 05:47 PM (ISO 8601)Ogre in the Playground
- Join Date
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Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never
Yeah, I wasn't sure about the precedent on Incorporeal Undead, and don't know enough of the interactions to pin down a specific build. I'll go along with LA +2*, with the star being specifically the boost on the Charisma drain.
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