A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2
You can get A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2 now at Gumroad
Page 5 of 25 FirstFirst 123456789101112131415 ... LastLast
Results 121 to 150 of 725
  1. - Top - End - #121
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Remuko's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    New York
    Gender
    Male2Female

    Default Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never

    I'm going -0*. CR is 2 less than HD. I don't think this is good enough to be equal to 6 class levels, and its CR agrees. I think this is my new feelings on all things. I'm not expecting to ever think something with a CR significantly lower than its HD is going to be anything above +0.
    Last edited by Remuko; 2021-06-08 at 07:31 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #122
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2013

    Default Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never

    Quote Originally Posted by Remuko View Post
    I'm going -0*. CR is 2 less than HD. I don't think this is good enough to be equal to 6 class levels, and its CR agrees. I think this is my new feelings on all things. I'm not expecting to ever think something with a CR significantly lower than its HD is going to be anything above +0.
    You get to add PC ability scores and items to the statblock even before any class features, and you lose no uses of Bardic Music if you decide to go Bard with a two-spell-level detriment or take advantage of that to enter PRCs meant for Bards without the class levels. The first means +3-4 to the save DCs and AC right off the bat, the second eventually becomes another +3, and anything Charisma-based your class levels are doing gets a +3 over a standard character. Wisdom's a +4, so Wis-based classes aren't out of the question, so you could go Swordsage and get another pile of armor class.

    Without LA, you have the ability scores to enter Sublime Chord by Wizard and keep the Wizard spells functioning just fine. Though you can only fit Sublime Chord 9, as you have to have 5 levels of Wizard to get 3rd level spells that way, it's going from a 6rhd monster with no innate spellcasting to 9th level spells. You can also go Sublime Chord 2/Stormsinger 7, still getting 9th level spells, but having 8 additional uses of Bardic Music instead of 4, and trade Song of Timelessness for all the Stormsong effects up to Winter's Ballad. With LA +2, you still end up reaching 8th level spells.
    Last edited by Morphic tide; 2021-06-08 at 09:19 PM.

  3. - Top - End - #123
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Troacctid's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    California
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never

    Also, the CR isn't 2 lower than HD. Giving a monster PC stats increases the CR, per the monster rules.

  4. - Top - End - #124
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Thurbane's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Terra Australis
    Gender
    Male

    Post Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never

    From a DM/encounter perspective, I don't know why the book decided we needed two music-themed undead (Crypt Chanter, Spectral Lyrist). BTW, the goofy look on the SL illustration always make me chuckle. Anyhow...

    Spectral Lyrist

    • Medium Undead (Incorporeal)
    • 6 RHD (d12hp, poor BAB, one good save, 4 skill points/"level")
    • Fly 60 ft good.
    • Cha bonus as deflection to AC.
    • Incorporeal touch attack 1d6 Cha drain. Fort save to avoid. This could easily take cruiser types out with a few hits, but they will generally have high Fort saves. You get 5 temp HP and 1 temp Cha per drain.
    • Bardic music: 6 day, fascinate and suggestion. This is a great way to meet PrC reqs. Also, Lyric Spell feat means you can use this to fuel spell slots.
    • Alter appearance: essentially free action, at will disguise self. Humanoid disguises only.
    • Darkvision 60 ft.
    • Incorporeal traits: the usual defensive and movement benefits; and the drawbacks interacting with gear, and the world in general.
    • Inescapable craving: needs to drain Cha. Heck, animals have Cha, so not too difficult.
    • Undead traits.
    • Str --, Dex +4, Cha --, Int +2, Wis +4, Cha +6: net +16, two non-abilities. Did we ever resolve how creatures with no Str score interact with things like ghost-touch gear?
    • Decent racial skills, focused on perception and "face" skills.

    Incorporeal humanoid in form, and can speak. I'm not going to rehash my usual comments on being incorporeal: suffice to say it comes with significant benefits, and drawbacks.

    Progression wise, I'd go Bard/Sublime Chord myself, if I wanted 9th level spells. It would be a shame to waste that innate Bardic Music. I guess you could skillmonkey, if you find a way to interact with material things.

    I'm giving this LA +0*. It gets a lot of decent stuff, but 6RHD is a burden. I could be talked up to +1*.

    [edit] Asterisk added for Cha boost shenanigans, which I missed entirely on first read through the stat block [/edit]

  5. - Top - End - #125
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Temotei's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Minnesota
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never

    I'll go with +0* for the moment.
    Homebrew
    Please feel free to PM me any thoughts on my homebrew (or comment in the thread if it's not too old).

  6. - Top - End - #126
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    danielxcutter's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Seoul
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never

    ...Hold up, the Cha drain allows a save and we're ruling away the stat pumping from it? That's... not good. Is it partial/half or negates?
    Cool elan (no not that kind) Illithid Slayer by linkele.

    Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Archive Of Our Own FanFiction.net DeviantArt
    We also have a TvTropes page!

    Currently playing: Red Hand of Doom(campaign journal)

    Extended signature here.

  7. - Top - End - #127
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Thurbane's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Terra Australis
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never

    Quote Originally Posted by danielxcutter View Post
    ...Hold up, the Cha drain allows a save and we're ruling away the stat pumping from it? That's... not good. Is it partial/half or negates?
    Save negates.

    Consider a bag-o-rats, though. Sure, they only have 2 Cha, but the Cha boost doesn't care about how many points you drain... and their Fort save is +2.

    Also, the DC is Cha based, so the more you drain, the higher the DC becomes.

  8. - Top - End - #128
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    danielxcutter's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Seoul
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never

    Quote Originally Posted by Thurbane View Post
    Save negates.

    Consider a bag-o-rats, though. Sure, they only have 2 Cha, but the Cha boost doesn't care about how many points you drain... and their Fort save is +2.

    Also, the DC is Cha based, so the more you drain, the higher the DC becomes.
    I thought we give uncapped statboosters an asterisk and cut that out of the evaluation? It’s been a while since we’ve done something like this so I don’t remember that well(last was the Shambling Mound I think?).
    Cool elan (no not that kind) Illithid Slayer by linkele.

    Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Archive Of Our Own FanFiction.net DeviantArt
    We also have a TvTropes page!

    Currently playing: Red Hand of Doom(campaign journal)

    Extended signature here.

  9. - Top - End - #129
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Thurbane's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Terra Australis
    Gender
    Male

    Question Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never

    Now I'm even more confused. Are you saying we should take away the uncapped stat boosting, or leave it because there's a save to avoid?

    I may be misunderstanding your point.

  10. - Top - End - #130
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

    Join Date
    Feb 2021
    Location
    France
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never

    Quote Originally Posted by danielxcutter View Post
    I thought we give uncapped statboosters an asterisk and cut that out of the evaluation? It’s been a while since we’ve done something like this so I don’t remember that well(last was the Shambling Mound I think?).
    We do, that's why there is an asterisk here. Indeed, the charisma drain is not that good, but Fortitude save based on Charisma will almost never be really high on people, while your DC increases with your HD and your primary stat. This is not game changing by any means, but it's not the main way the spectral lyrist will act either (it being either spells or bardic music). So this will not be crippling the LA too much in my opinion. 6 RHD for incorporeality and bardic music, plus interesting stat boosts seem nice to me. I'm gonna vote LA+0*, maybe +1 if I have something to do with it except bardic music, which is a really unoptimal playstyle (most bardic music PrC assume you have bard spells on top of it, and are pretty underpowered otherwise), and Ur-Priest (which is the strongest PrC in all of D&D. If a monster has to take it to be viable, it doesn't deserve an LA)
    Last edited by Beni-Kujaku; 2021-06-09 at 05:21 AM.
    Trying to resurrect the Negative LA thread, any comment and discussion are very welcome!


    Quote Originally Posted by H_H_F_F View Post
    3.5 allows you to optimize into godhood, yes, but far more importantly, it lets you optimize weak, weird, and niche options into relevance.

  11. - Top - End - #131
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Sep 2014

    Default Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never

    I think this can go as a +1*. Cause cows and such are cheap and you can just keep touching and things get silly. Its a decent class feature on an incorporeal undead chasis with nice stats.

  12. - Top - End - #132
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

    Join Date
    Feb 2021
    Location
    France
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never

    Quote Originally Posted by Efrate View Post
    I think this can go as a +1*. Cause cows and such are cheap and you can just keep touching and things get silly. Its a decent class feature on an incorporeal undead chasis with nice stats.
    We explicitly removed the gain of Charisma, so you can keep touching cows, but it won't give you any advantage.
    Trying to resurrect the Negative LA thread, any comment and discussion are very welcome!


    Quote Originally Posted by H_H_F_F View Post
    3.5 allows you to optimize into godhood, yes, but far more importantly, it lets you optimize weak, weird, and niche options into relevance.

  13. - Top - End - #133
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    danielxcutter's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Seoul
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never

    Quote Originally Posted by Beni-Kujaku View Post
    We do, that's why there is an asterisk here. Indeed, the charisma drain is not that good, but Fortitude save based on Charisma will almost never be really high on people, while your DC increases with your HD and your primary stat. This is not game changing by any means, but it's not the main way the spectral lyrist will act either (it being either spells or bardic music). So this will not be crippling the LA too much in my opinion. 6 RHD for incorporeality and bardic music, plus interesting stat boosts seem nice to me. I'm gonna vote LA+0*, maybe +1 if I have something to do with it except bardic music, which is a really unoptimal playstyle (most bardic music PrC assume you have bard spells on top of it, and are pretty underpowered otherwise), and Ur-Priest (which is the strongest PrC in all of D&D. If a monster has to take it to be viable, it doesn't deserve an LA)
    “Fort based on Charisma”? What’s that even supposed to mean? And racial abilities tend to scale on RHD, not total.

    I mean I suppose it’s not totally impossible to jack the DC up… but without the stacking, it’s hard to make it incredibly good, especially since a) it becomes completely useless against certain enemies(forget types, Body Ward’s only a 2nd-level Cleric spell), and b) most things with low Cha tend to not depend on it(as well as have high Fort bonuses).

    I guess Sublime Chord would work if you absolutely had to? But I don’t really see how much better it’d be than a normal caster, and there’s always templates for the incorporeality.
    Cool elan (no not that kind) Illithid Slayer by linkele.

    Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Archive Of Our Own FanFiction.net DeviantArt
    We also have a TvTropes page!

    Currently playing: Red Hand of Doom(campaign journal)

    Extended signature here.

  14. - Top - End - #134
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

    Join Date
    Feb 2021
    Location
    France
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never

    Quote Originally Posted by danielxcutter View Post
    “Fort based on Charisma”? What’s that even supposed to mean? And racial abilities tend to scale on RHD, not total.
    Well, I misread the entry, it's just that the DC is based on the lyrist's charisma. And about the scaling, I remember we discussed about that a bit earlier, and it is quite inconsistent. In the monster manual, it seems to be only racial hit dice, but all hit dice in the Rules Compendium (p119). Since the latter is the more recent, I abided by it.
    Last edited by Beni-Kujaku; 2021-06-09 at 09:32 AM.
    Trying to resurrect the Negative LA thread, any comment and discussion are very welcome!


    Quote Originally Posted by H_H_F_F View Post
    3.5 allows you to optimize into godhood, yes, but far more importantly, it lets you optimize weak, weird, and niche options into relevance.

  15. - Top - End - #135
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    danielxcutter's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Seoul
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never

    Quote Originally Posted by Beni-Kujaku View Post
    Well, I misread the entry, it's just that the DC is based on the lyrist's charisma. And about the scaling, I remember we discussed about that a bit earlier, and it is quite inconsistent. In the monster manual, it seems to be only racial hit dice, but all hit dice in the Rules Compendium (p119). Since the latter is the more recent, I abided by it.
    One, the Rules Compendium is inconsistent as all hell, and the racial HD part contradicts literally every monster statblock printed. It's more valid than, well, traits and flaws I guess, but I've always felt most people use it because it has rulings they can cheese the heck out of it rather than how much authority it holds.

    Two, I don't see anything about rolling Fort saves with Charisma:

    Charisma Drain (Su): Living creatures hit by a spectral lyrist's touch attack must make a DC 18 Fortitude save or take 1d6 points of Charisma drain. The save DC is Charisma-based. When a spectral lyrist drains a victim's Charisma, it gains 5 temporary hit points and 1 temporary Charisma point, no matter how many points it drains. Temporary hit points and ability points gained in this way last for 1 up to hour.
    "Charisma-based" means it scales off the user's Charisma, not the target's.
    Cool elan (no not that kind) Illithid Slayer by linkele.

    Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Archive Of Our Own FanFiction.net DeviantArt
    We also have a TvTropes page!

    Currently playing: Red Hand of Doom(campaign journal)

    Extended signature here.

  16. - Top - End - #136
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    GreatWyrmGold's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    In a castle under the sea
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never

    Quote Originally Posted by Debatra View Post
    Spectral Lyrist
    Anyone that fails to beat their Disguise check doesn't realize the Lyrist is incorporeal "until an attack passes harmlessly through the [Spectral Lyrist]". Presumably walking through walls would also give it away.
    I am amused that the designers assumed that players' first instinct would be to attack this normal-looking humanoid being. (On a related note, I presume that nonviolent physical interactions—e.g. handshakes—passing harmlessly through her would also give it away.)


    Quote Originally Posted by Beni-Kujaku View Post
    Most prestige classes that improve bardic music say that the levels stack with bard levels to determine the number of uses. What happens if you have no bard level?
    You have zero bard levels, so you add zero to your levels in the prestige class to figure out your effective bard level.


    Quote Originally Posted by Remuko View Post
    I'm going -0*. CR is 2 less than HD. I don't think this is good enough to be equal to 6 class levels, and its CR agrees. I think this is my new feelings on all things. I'm not expecting to ever think something with a CR significantly lower than its HD is going to be anything above +0.
    I disagree; the spectral lyricist has a number of handy abilities, conspicuously including some which are more useful useful to a player than an encounter. I don't have a strong opinion on whether it needs a positive level adjustment or not, but it's not weak.


    Quote Originally Posted by Thurbane View Post
    BTW, the goofy look on the SL illustration always make me chuckle.
    All the more so due to her being purple.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Blade Wolf View Post
    Ah, thank you very much GreatWyrmGold, you obviously live up to that name with your intelligence and wisdom with that post.
    Quotes, more

    The Tale of Demman, Second King of Ireland, a CKII AAR, won a WritAAR of the Week award. Winner of Villainous Competitions 8 and 40; silver for 32
    Fanfic

    Pixel avatar by me! Other avatar by Recaiden.

  17. - Top - End - #137
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Debatra's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Kaeda
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never

    Quote Originally Posted by Remuko View Post
    I'm going -0*. CR is 2 less than HD. I don't think this is good enough to be equal to 6 class levels, and its CR agrees. I think this is my new feelings on all things. I'm not expecting to ever think something with a CR significantly lower than its HD is going to be anything above +0.
    Do keep in mind that Challenge Rating is mainly an estimation of how difficult the creature would be in a fight against a party of four. Not entirely of course, but to the point where the "CRs for Noncombat Encounters" section of the DMG outright says "They [noncombat encounters] should never have a CR higher than the party's level. As a rule, you probably don’t want to hand out a lot of experience for these kinds of encounters unless you intentionally want to run a low-combat game."

    So CR probably isn't a great indicator for monsters that aren't at least somewhat combat-focused. And the Lyrist is definitely more of a Face.
    Kaedanis Pyran, tai faernae.

    The LA Assignment Threads: Attempting to Make Monsters Playable Since 2016

    My Homebrewer's Extended Signature
    Spoiler: Quotes
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Lycan 01 View Post
    Roland just endorsed a crack pairing?


    Did... did we break the universe?
    Quote Originally Posted by SassyQuatch View Post
    It is a major flaw in the game. Destroy a moon? Sure. Talk to somebody a hundred miles away, that's going to be difficult.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rizban View Post
    Realistically speaking... D&D style magic doesn't exist, so... let's ignore reality.

  18. - Top - End - #138
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

    Join Date
    Feb 2021
    Location
    France
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWyrmGold View Post
    I am amused that the designers assumed that players' first instinct would be to attack this normal-looking humanoid being. (On a related note, I presume that nonviolent physical interactions—e.g. handshakes—passing harmlessly through her would also give it away.)
    Introverts: what do you mean handshakes are not an attack?
    Trying to resurrect the Negative LA thread, any comment and discussion are very welcome!


    Quote Originally Posted by H_H_F_F View Post
    3.5 allows you to optimize into godhood, yes, but far more importantly, it lets you optimize weak, weird, and niche options into relevance.

  19. - Top - End - #139
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Remuko's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    New York
    Gender
    Male2Female

    Default Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never

    Quote Originally Posted by Debatra View Post
    Do keep in mind that Challenge Rating is mainly an estimation of how difficult the creature would be in a fight against a party of four. Not entirely of course, but to the point where the "CRs for Noncombat Encounters" section of the DMG outright says "They [noncombat encounters] should never have a CR higher than the party's level. As a rule, you probably don’t want to hand out a lot of experience for these kinds of encounters unless you intentionally want to run a low-combat game."

    So CR probably isn't a great indicator for monsters that aren't at least somewhat combat-focused. And the Lyrist is definitely more of a Face.
    yes i understand that. a lvl 4 fighter is also CR 4 (IIRC). That means #CR = #PC class levels. This thing has 6 monster class levels but is only rated as being as strong as 4 PC class levels. To me that makes it -0.

    Is there a source online thats just a list of monsters by CR and HD. I'd love to look thru a list like that and eyeball it myself and see if I actually see anything that is clearly worth more HD than its CR. The things worth LA almost always have CR higher than their HD. I can't imagine anything with CR well below its RHD being anything above +0.

  20. - Top - End - #140
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Troacctid's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    California
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never

    Quote Originally Posted by Remuko View Post
    yes i understand that. a lvl 4 fighter is also CR 4 (IIRC). That means #CR = #PC class levels. This thing has 6 monster class levels but is only rated as being as strong as 4 PC class levels. To me that makes it -0.

    Is there a source online thats just a list of monsters by CR and HD. I'd love to look thru a list like that and eyeball it myself and see if I actually see anything that is clearly worth more HD than its CR. The things worth LA almost always have CR higher than their HD. I can't imagine anything with CR well below its RHD being anything above +0.
    Your memory is not quite correct here! A level 4 fighter with the standard array is only CR 3. To be CR 4, she has to use the elite array, and if you give her 32-point buy, she actually goes up to CR 5.

    By the same token, a spectral lyrist with 32-point buy is CR 6, not CR 4.

  21. - Top - End - #141
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    danielxcutter's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Seoul
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never

    Quote Originally Posted by Troacctid View Post
    Your memory is not quite correct here! A level 4 fighter with the standard array is only CR 3. To be CR 4, she has to use the elite array, and if you give her 32-point buy, she actually goes up to CR 5.

    By the same token, a spectral lyrist with 32-point buy is CR 6, not CR 4.
    I don't remember anything about point-buy increasing the CR? I mean, giving more stats would obviously but I mean I can't think of a specific rule singling out that. Doesn't seem to be on the SRD at least. How much point-buy is the elite array worth again?

    Also PC wealth is a +1 CR, but then again that's the same for other characters anyways. A Spectral Lyrist with no levels, 32-point buy, and PC WBL is only like CR 7. The same as a 5th-level PC.

    That being said CR is notoriously inaccurate and especially for non-combat related monsters as well as incorporeality, so there's that.
    Cool elan (no not that kind) Illithid Slayer by linkele.

    Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Archive Of Our Own FanFiction.net DeviantArt
    We also have a TvTropes page!

    Currently playing: Red Hand of Doom(campaign journal)

    Extended signature here.

  22. - Top - End - #142
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Troacctid's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    California
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never

    Quote Originally Posted by danielxcutter View Post
    I don't remember anything about point-buy increasing the CR? I mean, giving more stats would obviously but I mean I can't think of a specific rule singling out that. Doesn't seem to be on the SRD at least. How much point-buy is the elite array worth again?
    The elite array is worth +1. Increasing the point buy by 5–10 points constitutes an ad hoc minor upgrade, which is another +1.

    Quote Originally Posted by danielxcutter View Post
    Also PC wealth is a +1 CR, but then again that's the same for other characters anyways. A Spectral Lyrist with no levels, 32-point buy, and PC WBL is only like CR 7. The same as a 5th-level PC.
    Oh yeah, good point. I forgot about PC wealth.

  23. - Top - End - #143
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    danielxcutter's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Seoul
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never

    Quote Originally Posted by Troacctid View Post
    The elite array is worth +1. Increasing the point buy by 5–10 points constitutes an ad hoc minor upgrade, which is another +1.
    So not really RAW?

    Oh yeah, good point. I forgot about PC wealth.
    The other PCs still get stats and WBL as good as yours though. "Oh, with a good array and WBL it's CR 7" doesn't mean it needs LA just because it's got a higher CR than HD now.

    I really do think CR isn't particularly good for judging monsters with irregular qualities like this though. Gets kinda weird on creatures without so much as SLAs, let alone having beatstick numbers or actual casting when you advance them.

    Anyways there isn't a whole lot this thing can do offensively? Defenses are good, but the Charisma drain only drops rogues and wizards fast(though I guess it'd mess with some caster-types) and... uh, how well does the DC scale? I guess it'd keep up against mid-level spells, but it's still useless against certain enemy types. A DM who only puts you up against enemies that negate your abilities is a jerk, but you can't count on them only throwing creatures weak against it at you either. Which... kinda leaves your underwhelming class abilities that a normal PC could probably do better.

    Honestly, if the bardic music stacked with actual bard levels it'd be good, but it doesn't seem to. How many PrCs use it in ways that don't have the DC lag behind greatly?

    Oh! Also, how well does Dirgesinger work? You're not exactly going to be an excellent caster, so might go the whole hog with special abilities. Isn't the capstone good?
    Cool elan (no not that kind) Illithid Slayer by linkele.

    Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Archive Of Our Own FanFiction.net DeviantArt
    We also have a TvTropes page!

    Currently playing: Red Hand of Doom(campaign journal)

    Extended signature here.

  24. - Top - End - #144
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    ElfPirate

    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Seattle, WA

    Default Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never

    Also of note: off the top of my head, all the PrC's that have "bardic music" as a prerequisite specify "bardic music class feature" or "class ability". RAW, I don't think the Spectral Lyrist qualifies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Darths & Droids
    When you combine the two most devious, sneaky, manipulative, underhanded, cunning, and diabolical forces in the known universe, the consequences can be world-shattering. Those forces are, of course, players and GMs.
    Quote Originally Posted by OgresAreCute View Post
    Realism, the natural predator of D&D mechanics.

  25. - Top - End - #145
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Troacctid's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    California
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never

    Quote Originally Posted by danielxcutter View Post
    So not really RAW?
    No, it is. It's under "Other modifiers." And it broadly defines the general scope of minor boosts vs. significant boosts; "higher ability scores" is given as an example on page 293. Obviously it's a little wibbly-wobbly because the whole CR section is full of caveats, but if you consider the rules for associated and nonassociated class levels to be RAW, this is at about that same level of RAW-ness.

    Quote Originally Posted by PoeticallyPsyco View Post
    Also of note: off the top of my head, all the PrC's that have "bardic music" as a prerequisite specify "bardic music class feature" or "class ability". RAW, I don't think the Spectral Lyrist qualifies.
    Seeker of the song, arguably the most bardic musicy of all the bardic music classes, just says "bardic music ability," so it's fair game! I also mentioned the Warrior Skald + War Chanter combo earlier; warrior skald actually doesn't require any bardic music ability at all, and in fact it grants you all the bardic music effects if you don't already have them. Oh, and all the bard prestige classes in Dragon #311 should be accessible too, and they're pretty good, even granting you bard spellcasting if you don't already have it.
    Last edited by Troacctid; 2021-06-10 at 01:16 AM.

  26. - Top - End - #146
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Thurbane's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Terra Australis
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never

    Quote Originally Posted by PoeticallyPsyco View Post
    Also of note: off the top of my head, all the PrC's that have "bardic music" as a prerequisite specify "bardic music class feature" or "class ability". RAW, I don't think the Spectral Lyrist qualifies.
    There are a small handful:

    - Lyric Thaumaturge: "Bardic music 5/day" Requires Melodic Casting, which in turn requires Bardic music class feature.
    - Seeker of the Song: "Bardic music ability"
    - Sublime Chord "Bardic music ability"

    Also, Dawncaller: "Bardic music ability". But you need to be a Goliath, and undead can't qualify for Stoneblessed, so...

    [edit] partially ninja'd [/edit]

  27. - Top - End - #147
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    danielxcutter's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Seoul
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never

    Quote Originally Posted by Troacctid View Post
    No, it is. It's under "Other modifiers." And it broadly defines the general scope of minor boosts vs. significant boosts; "higher ability scores" is given as an example on page 293. Obviously it's a little wibbly-wobbly because the whole CR section is full of caveats, but if you consider the rules for associated and nonassociated class levels to be RAW, this is at about that same level of RAW-ness.
    Okay, that makes sense. “Not strictly spelled out, but not entirely unreasonable to assume the DM will agree” sounds about right for those.

    Also speaking of associated class levels man are those parts of the rules weird. You can break the CR system over your knee using base creatures with enough HD bloat and some combinations can have their cake and eat it(a lot of true giants can get +16 BAB and 9ths even with just poor BAB caster classes, and Primordial Giant only counts Warlock as associated IIRC). Not to mention figuring out the fringe cases is only marginally less painful than removing your own wisdom teeth. Without painkillers.(Is Swordsage be associated or not for something like giants? What about Monk?)

    I do think it’s nice that a lot of monsters printed later have some guidelines about what should be associated and what shouldn’t. I think there’s quite a few in the MMV?
    Last edited by danielxcutter; 2021-06-10 at 07:48 AM.

  28. - Top - End - #148
    Orc in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Location
    Bear mountains! (Alps)
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never

    Quote Originally Posted by danielxcutter View Post
    I mean I suppose it’s not totally impossible to jack the DC up… but without the stacking, it’s hard to make it incredibly good, especially since a) it becomes completely useless against certain enemies(forget types, Body Ward’s only a 2nd-level Cleric spell), and b) most things with low Cha tend to not depend on it(as well as have high Fort bonuses).
    body ward does nothing for mental abilities damage, there is soul ward for mental abilities, but since damage to Int/Wis/Cha are much less common than Str/Dex/Con damage, I find it unlikely that it would be prepared

  29. - Top - End - #149
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    danielxcutter's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Seoul
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never

    I mean, by what assumptions? That goes for a very large number of spells that someone hasn’t planned their entire build around.
    Cool elan (no not that kind) Illithid Slayer by linkele.

    Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Archive Of Our Own FanFiction.net DeviantArt
    We also have a TvTropes page!

    Currently playing: Red Hand of Doom(campaign journal)

    Extended signature here.

  30. - Top - End - #150
    Orc in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Location
    Bear mountains! (Alps)
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The LA Assignment Thread XI: Better LA'd Than Never

    fair, I'm just fastidious about details sometimes, my apologies

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •