Marvel Multiverse Role-Playing Game.

[Rater202]

Marvel's dipping their toes back in the TTRPG market once again.

The new system will have a playtest released in March of 22 and a full release sometime in 2023.

It's using a brand new system called D616, which is apparently a simple and intuitive system, but with recognizable traits from popular RPGs, created whole cloth by Matt Forbeck.

The Stats for the system are Might, Agility, Resilience, Vigilance, Ego, and Logic, which seem simple enough to understand what they'd be covering.

[JNAProductions]

Interesting. Any word on pricing or whatnot?

[Akyron]

FASERIP crushes all marvel rpgs since.

[Rater202]

Interesting. Any word on pricing or whatnot?

Not as far as I can tell.

Also, picture

Spoiler

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I'd like to talk about the supposed cover for a second. I'm the kind of nerd that obsessively researches whatever he's passionate about this month: In the last couple of years I've acquired a bit of an encyclopedia knowledge of Marvel Comics lore, and the picture says some interesting things in context.

First, we have Galactus and Kang the Conquerer in the background looming, menacingly. Implying that Cosmic Adventures and Time Travel Shenanigans are on the table.

Next, we have Groot and Rocket prominently featured, using designed from a couple of years ago when the Guardians were being written based in part on their movieverse incarnations.

Nex to them we have Thor in his "Herald of Thunder" design. This is Thor, not only as The All-Father, and thus, far more powerful than he is typical depicted due to becoming a Sky--Father and inheriting the brunt of the Odinforce(or rather, Thorforce in Thor's hands) but he is also, in this state, a Herald of Galactus and possesses the Power Cosmic, amplifying his powers and those of Mjolnir many times over.

Ironically, he was made a Herald because Galactus saw a vision of Thor killing him, but ultimately all this did was make it easier for Thor to kill him.

Thor being depicted like this, in conjunction with the comments that you can optionally play as pre-existing heroes, in addition to making your own, implies that the game has a very high potential power level.

Above and Below Thor, we have Storm and Wolverine, and they're depicted as wearing their current "main" costumes from the comics at the current point in time, indicating that the Krakoan Status Quo might be in play for this game: Mutants are living on their own living Island that is recognized as its own country by the UN and are trading miracle drugs to other countries one exchange for the citizens of the nation all being recognized to have diplomatic status. Furthermore, characters who are traditionally depicted as villainous are working with the good guys.

Some of them, like Daken Akihiro and John Greycrow, are making a genuine effort to be better people. Others, like Mister Sinister and The Shadow King, are up to something but are nominally playing by the rules for now, while others still like the Von Strucker/Fenris twins are doing the bare minimum not to get kicked out and then whine that nobody likes them.

Captain America, Captain Marvel, Black Panther, and the Spider-Men are all really standard depictions(though, Miles presence in a mostly comic-based ensemble men's that, as a stretch, the Ultimate Universe or an analog might be part of the "multiverse" in question) but Iron Man is interesting because that does not seem to be any armor he's ever used in the comics, but instead a composite of the Iron Man Model 51 and the Iron Man Model 70.

[Anonymouswizard]

Interesting. My first experience to superhero roleplaying was that weird diceless Marvel game, which I never could bring myself to run or play.

Considering that superhero suspend tend towards relatively crunchy due to the powers it'll be interesting to see how this turns out. Are they going to do with a power creation system like Champions, Mutants& Masterminds, or Wolf Talented, or will be be seeing a list of common powers for you to pick from? I'm guessing the latter.

Also will be interesting to see their stance on the Cyclops Problem, because he's one of their more prominent heroes but no matter how interesting or theoretically OP his powers are, in game they do one thing. I'm guessing by giving him a lot of points to upgrade his mundane abilities.

At the end of the day, whole DC Adventures just licenced M&M, it at least had a solid system due to it. So MMRP could be even better, or much worse, and we won't know until it lands.

[Lord Raziere]

Its really weird to me that superhero comic games from the big two think that I want to play preexisting heroes. Marvel Heroic Roleplaying had the same assumption. When really I want to make my heroes and stories. Sure I'll draw upon inspiration from one hero or another, but that is just apart of the creative process.

like my hero idea Prof Progress draws some inspiration from Captain America in that she is a pulp science hero from 1930's-40's transported to modern day, but she instead uses a ray gun, a jetpack and such to fight and her initial outfit looks a bit look like one of those silly pulp astronaut designs, but captain america himself? Nah.

Mostly, if they want to make me specifically play in Marvel universe, they have to worldbuild and give it enough setting and meat to it for me to make me go "oh this is specifically marvel", make it feel like it matters rather than just any other random superhero universe because its incredibly easy to throw one together. like you have convince me that this is an actual setting and not just a setpiece for a hero to do things in, if that makes sense. we know that the X-Men are doing this or the Avengers are off doing that, the thing you want to nail, if you want make this work for me, are questions like "How does New York handle being Ground Zero for all superhero-related things?", "what is Earth outside of New York like?" (That is not Space stuff), "What about mutants who aren't apart of the X-Men/Krakoa surely they don't all live together?" "What are the laws regarding supers in other countries?", "What is the day to day existence of living with all this weirdness happening?" the stories marvel tends to put out tend to be about when disaster strikes, with often a fast pace involved and that doesn't leave any time to really focus on how this world actually works. its a problem many superhero settings have which more can stand to learn from something like MHA because it goes into the setting a bit to make it feel more real and sensible.

[paladinn]

MSHRPG/FASERIP is one of my favorite games of all time. The 2022 game seems, at least at first glance, like D20 with the serial #'s filed off. That's not a bad thing, btw.

I think M&M went off the rails with 3rd edition. Hopefully the new game will stay closer to D20, if that is that is in fact the foundation.

Has anyone played Silver Age Sentinels? Now That is D20 supers.

[Rater202]

On having the pre-existing characters presented in playable form, I can see a good reason for it.

For one, lots of RPGS, especially in playtest, have pre-made characters ready to play for use both as examples for character creation and as an option for people who want to get playing right away and get a feel for the system.

In an RPG based on a licensed property, however, having pre-established characters that everyone is familiar with stated out in playable form gives people a decent ballpark for how to make the characters they want.

Let's say we're starting easy with a street-level game, which puts us anywhere from "Punisher Level" to "Spider-Man level."

If we assume that the characters on the Cover will all have write-ups, having writeups for Captain America, Black Panther, Wolverine, and the Spider-Men give us a great idea of what kind of ballpark we should be going for with stats, skills, and powers for heroes who are able to operate in street-level situations.

(Particularly in the cases of Captain America, as there are literally hundreds of ways to gain powers comparable to his in the canon)

[thorr-kan]

The stats are:

Might
Agility,
Resilience
Vigilance
Ego
Logic

In case anybody missed it. (I did.)

It's FASERIP, without the Fighting stat. And this being Marvel, there's gonna be Fighting.

Forbeck's got some credentials, and a UP connection. I'll be interested to see what he comes up with.

[Rater202]

The stats are:

Might
Agility,
Resilience
Vigilance
Ego
Logic

In case anybody missed it. (I did.)

It's FASERIP, without the Fighting stat. And this being Marvel, there's gonna be Fighting.

Forbeck's got some credentials, and a UP connection. I'll be interested to see what he comes up with.

I'm not sure, they said it's a new system.

Also... Gonna be honest, for all the praise Faserip gets the absolutely punishing Karma system turns me off of it.

"You lose experience points for killing someone, even if they're evil, it's an accident, you were acting in self-defense or defense of another, or they were a willing sacrifice for the greater good... Unless you're using pre-generated characters and you're playing as Wolverine, then you can kill as many bad guys as you want without penalty."

And there are rules for a mind control power, but literally, any use of it counts as an evil act. Can't mind control a suicidal person and make them back away from the ledge and sit quietly until we can get their psychologist on the phone, that's n evil act.

At bare minimum I'd prefer a normal experience system and for morality to be a matter for fluff and roleplay. No powers should've "inherently evil" it should depend on what you do with them.

[Lord Raziere]

Never played FASERIP, but if its a karma system I'm out by default. that kind of system is frustrating enough in DnD, I don't need it any other roleplaying game.

[Grod_The_Giant]

The Stats for the system are Might, Agility, Resilience, Vigilance, Ego, and Logic,

...so Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, Wisdom, Charisma, Intelligence?

It's using a brand new system called D616, which is apparently a simple and intuitive system, but with recognizable traits from popular RPGs

Combined with this, the cynical side of my brain says it's going to be a 5e D&D hack job.

[Beleriphon]

The stats are:

Might
Agility,
Resilience
Vigilance
Ego
Logic

In case anybody missed it. (I did.)

I missed it until you lined them up. That's actually a good way to remember the names of them: MARVEL.

[Anonymouswizard]

...so Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, Wisdom, Charisma, Intelligence?


Combined with this, the cynical side of my brain says it's going to be a 5e D&D hack job.

I missed it into you pointed that stats out, but yeah, it's sounding more and more like a 5e hack.

Which, if it's more in the way that Mutants & Masterminds is a 3e hack than giving us a bunch of Marvel themed classes,, might be a good thing. M&M, while but perfect, essentially did a great job recreating HERO-style power creation in 3e.

Even if we're given a bunch of individual powers instead of an effects based system I think it could have Potential. But I'm not getting rid of my M&M books yet.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I missed it into you pointed that stats out, but yeah, it's sounding more and more like a 5e hack.

Which, if it's more in the way that Mutants & Masterminds is a 3e hack than giving us a bunch of Marvel themed classes,, might be a good thing. M&M, while but perfect, essentially did a great job recreating HERO-style power creation in 3e.

Even if we're given a bunch of individual powers instead of an effects based system I think it could have Potential. But I'm not getting rid of my M&M books yet.

I wouldn't call 3e M&M much of a D&D hack at this point--they're about as different as d20 systems can get.

Hmm...

Bounded Accuracy would actually work pretty well for a superhero game, and 5e's combat rules are clean enough, but I'm not sure how much else you could really take. An awful lot of the edition is wrapped up in the rests-and-attrition model of D&D, and that doesn't translate well to supers. And classes... I mean, you could make them work, but it feels like a bad fit.

I dunno. "d616" could mean a d6-system base. <shrug>

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Its really weird to me that superhero comic games from the big two think that I want to play preexisting heroes. Marvel Heroic Roleplaying had the same assumption. When really I want to make my heroes and stories. Sure I'll draw upon inspiration from one hero or another, but that is just apart of the creative process.

AFAIK, this was actually a stipulation that Marvel themselves had for at least Marvel Heroic, and it took some effort to convince them to include a "random character generator" in a later supplement. There's definitely some executive meddling involved on that side. Not as sure about DC, but as I understand it DC Heroes was a bit freer since it was M&M compatible?

As for this, seems like the stat names are a clear throwback to FASERIP since they're being teased prominently. "d616 System" tells me basically nothing, I honestly thought we'd finally left behind "dX system" monikers for good in like the 00s. They'll probably just gun for a more traditional game to try and get people onboard?

I'm guessing this is Marvel going "hey, Critical Role is a thing, RPGs are in again, maybe this time our RPG will sell as much as we want". But with no intent to supply the support required to market an RPG to can go toe-to-toe with D&D.

[Lord Raziere]

I dunno. "d616" could mean a d6-system base. <shrug>

Honestly, it just sounds like Marvel being cute with using its main universe designation number as a die. Universe 616 is the canonical main timeline of Marvel, so in all likelihood its just meaningless branding for like, rolling 1d6 + 2d8 for some contrived reason.

Though, If they actually tell you to roll a 616 sided die for things we'll know how far off the deep end have gone and can make fun of them thinking such a stupid gimmick would ever work. corporations have done sillier things for publicity.

[Rater202]

The prominently featured Blank Silhouette right at the front of the cover picture as if they're leading the other heroes suggests to me that the focus is going to be on the player's original hero characters.

And the system is being created by Matt Forbeck... Who 1: Contributed several of the Encyclopedias/Handbooks to the Marvel Universe and 2: Has a long history in game design, I think that we'll get something that is, at the least, functional.

I mean, does the game have to be perfect? As long as it's fun and it makes people feel like they're part of the Marvel Universe when they're playing it I think it's done its job.

[Anonymouswizard]

I wouldn't call 3e M&M much of a D&D hack at this point--they're about as different as d20 systems can get.

Oh sure, but it did take a couple of editions to get to that being firm.

Hmm...

Bounded Accuracy would actually work pretty well for a superhero game, and 5e's combat rules are clean enough, but I'm not sure how much else you could really take. An awful lot of the edition is wrapped up in the rests-and-attrition model of D&D, and that doesn't translate well to supers. And classes... I mean, you could make them work, but it feels like a bad fit.

I dunno. "d616" could mean a d6-system base. <shrug>

Yeah, if it takes most of 5e it's a bad sign. But I've now read that I think is the article on the original Marvel site and it said (bolding mine).

will introduce players to the all-new D616 System, an accessible and easy-to-learn system for newcomers to tabletop RPGs and a natural evolution for those familiar with the most popular tabletop role-playing games on the market.

That part is interesting. The biggest RPGs on the market are D&D5e, Pathfinder, and what else? Maybe Fate or Savage Worlds, but I do feel like it's saying 'don't worry, if you know how to pay D&D you'll pick this up quickly'.

But yeah, we don't know for certain, and nothing is set in stone.


I think that it might actually help them if they ran far away from D&D and based the rules off of super simple systems, stuff like Those Dark Places or Teenagers from Outer Space. Those kind of systems that are easy to pick up because they use a single d6 and don't have a ton of rules. So take those did stats, write up maybe thirty to forty powers, and all players to split like 10-20 points between everything they want.

If somebody's only played D&D I'm certain I could teach them Those Dark Places before I could teach them M&M. Now I'm normally all for Effects Based systems for supers, but I honestly think it could help them. So Bruce Banner picks up a power that lets him shift to an alternative form or five and represents the various forms of the Hulk via shifting his stats about*.

But natural evolution makes me suspect that won't be the case


And yes, the stats spelling MARVEL is cute.

* Yes, I know that Green Hulk isn't actually stupid, and that other Hulks are more complicated, but it works.

[Rater202]

I'm gonna b honest, as long as the game let me play a character with a Klyntar Symbiote and I actually feel like I have a symbiote then I'll be happy.

Though, admittedly things like "bypassing the immortality and supernatural defenses of deities and similar beings" and "preserving the host's consciousness and soul within themselves" might have to wait for a supplement.

[paladinn]

Just curious.. and a tad off-topic.. Has anyone played Amazing Adventures 5e from Troll Lord? The original AA used the Siege engine mechanic (ala Castles & Crusades); but the 5e version is much more in line with, well, 5e.

I don't think it would work too well for Cosmic-level Supers games; but for lesser power levels, it seems like it might be good.

[Beleriphon]

Oh sure, but it did take a couple of editions to get to that being firm.

M&M 2E was significant less similar to D&D than it was similar. They used a lot of the same terms but the mechanics were totally different for the most part. M&M 1E was pretty much just Superhero D&D for sure.

[t209]

Part of me had “what if c and d listers, canon fodders, extras, and average joes in superhero became a party”.
Think BPRD, Damage Control, or even DND “villager party” (maybe L5R’s path of wave supplement).

[Rater202]

Part of me had “what if c and d listers, canon fodders, extras, and average joes in superhero became a party”.
Think BPRD, Damage Control, or even DND “villager party” (maybe L5R’s path of wave supplement).

That should be easily doable in a system like that.

Half the characters on the cover are either street-level characters or characters with street-level powers who are ranked higher than street level for other reasons.

Hell, knock-off powers being sold openly or on the black market is a recurring them. There's a drug called SSS.2 that's derived from the Super-Soldier Serum that empowered Captain America. You breathe it in, it gives you almost all of Captain America's powers. You're really dizzy for a bit, but otherwise no side effects.

Killmonger studied Wakandan Herb and created a synthetic drug that gives someone all of the exact powers of a Black Panther whether you're worthy or not, genetically compatible or not, whether you have powers already or not, whether the Panther Gods approve of you or not. Killmonger is intelligent and well educated but isn't considered anything particularly special so if he could do it someone else might e able to.

Power Broker treatments, a procedure that gives you superhuman strength and superhuman toughness but has a 50/50 shot at deforming you were openly sold by cooperation. People were literally buying Super Powers so that they could have a shot at being a professional wrestler—Universal Class Wrestling Federation is an entire thing, comparable to WWE, consisting entirely of wrestlers with Super Powers.

Mister Hyde used to sell his Hyde Formula as a street drug.

Mutant Growth Hormone is an illegal and highly addictive narcotic that is either filtered from the bodies of mutants or synthesized from their blood. It temporarily gives you the powers of the mutant it's made from, and can also be customized by combining MGH from multiple mutants or by cutting it with other drugs. Other drugs can also be cut with MGH to enhance their effects.

So, if the rules in the book in regards to powers are decent, you could have an entire game consisting of a handful of cops who got forced out of the job because they tried to stand up against corruption so they stole some power granting stuff out of the evidence locker and now they're a group of vigilantes running around with knock-off supersoldier packages.

[Anonymouswizard]

So character concepts I'd like to see as possible (even if they're in the 'entire campaign's worth of advancements sense):

An FTL rabbit. Mainly because it's my go-to bizarre character concept to test out this kind of system.

A pulp hero transported forward in time from the 1930s. Because it's a decent test of building street level but broad.

An android/gynoid on the run from their creator('s funder). Bonus points if I can add on ill-defined inbuilt gadgetry.

A sentient sword. Because it's been on my list to play for a while.

A literal fire breathing dragon.

[Ameraaaaaa]

Well it's gonna have tough competition from m&m and champions and the generic systems of gurps and fate. Plus it also has to compete with faserip. I can see them being popular due to marvels new popularity and the marketing budget.

But to really stand out for seasoned roleplayers it would have to be either have to be either a updated version of faserip with modern elements, a rules light rpg or do something special. Not gimmicky but special.

Still probably gonna popular due to name recognition.

I'll probably buy it.

[Rater202]

Well it's gonna have tough competition from m&m and champions and the generic systems of gurps and fate. Plus it also has to compete with faserip. I can see them being popular due to marvels new popularity and the marketing budget.

But to really stand out for seasoned roleplayers it would have to be either have to be either a updated version of faserip with modern elements, a rules light rpg or do something special. Not gimmicky but special.

Still probably gonna popular due to name recognition.

I'll probably buy it.

I honestly still don't get the love for Faserip.

the Experience system is busted all to hell: You have to be a moral paragon that not even Captain America would believe in to avoid taking XP penalties... Unless you're playing Wolverine during the Secret Wars module.

The game even punishes you from wanting to make an OG character: Powers are determined randomly, some powers are considered inherently evil so if you role them you're screwed, and there are some pre-gnned characters who are inherently better than any player-created character due to them starting with stats that it's explicitly against the rules for most Superhero PCs to get too.

Unless you're talking about a heavily hacked homebrew/house rule game based on the system, in which case its not really fair to compare that to a commercial product.

Honestly, as long as Marvel Multiverse actually lets you pick your own powers and doesn't tie character progression to a poorly balanced karma system that punishes you fro being anything even remotely resembling a realistic person with flaws, let alone say, an anti-hero, it's probably going o be a better system just due to being more playable.

[Ameraaaaaa]

I never said faserip was imo a good system. When i said the game had to compete with faserip i mean it had to compete with it's fan base. Afterall dispite it all faserip is popular and it's flaws are easy to homebrew away compared to say trying to homebrew away advantage and dis advantage from dnd 5e where the amount of abilities relying on it makes it a lot of work to homebrew.

Honestly i hope this game succeeds. Would be nice to have another big superhero game on the market.

[Rater202]

I imagine, based on what's been said, that it's gonna be a simplified d20 hack, possibly with the main die changed to a d6 or a mixture of d10 and d6.

I don't think there are gonna be classes, but I woulnd't be surprised if there aren't "packages" or "templates" that you can choose from and then customize, simply because there's more than one kind of superhuman and there are some universal traits between different kinds of superhumans—mutants are slightly heartier and healthier than a human of comparable build and lifestyle, for example(which, I think was even represented mechanically in Faserip) while Hulks... Don't stay dead.

Probably will also be an option for going full a la carte, if only in an appendix.

[Anonymouswizard]

Honestly, a decently balanced random power system wouldn't be a bad thing to have.

Like, maybe not as the only method of custom character, but an appendix with a bunch of X-point piwersets and a table to randomly select one would be cool to see (I remember M&M 3e having a random character generator, but if MMRP is significantly lighter it could have a lot more variety).