Strongest Comic-Book Brick

[Rater202]

And yet... They couldn't bother to give him unique powers or backstory (his backstory is basically the same as Wolverine's Weapon X background)... He's just "these characters, but moar pooweful!" He'll always be a Hulk/Wolveirne wannabe...

Clay isn't quite the level of ****-tier fanfic as, say, Silk or Itsy-bitsy... But he's up there.

I mean, giving him original powers would defy the point.

Weapon X was not trying to make a unique superhero.

Weapon X was trying to combine and mass-produce the abilities of the most dangerous superhumans they could get their hands on to create an army of mutant-cyborg slaves for... Whatever Weapon X goal is this week.

They don't care about Clay as a person, only as a weapon.

Giving him a customized unique power set would have undermined the story.

As for Silk... Apparently, she's a much better character when she's written by other people.

And Itsy-Bitsy's real name is Susan Mary. The fact that she's a trash tier fanfic character come to life completely with sociopathy and overuse of buzzwords is... Basically the entire point of her character.

[Lemmy]

I mean, giving him original powers would defy the point.

Weapon X was not trying to make a unique superhero.

Weapon X was trying to combine and mass-produce the abilities of the most dangerous superhumans they could get their hands on to create an army of mutant-cyborg slaves for... Whatever Weapon X goal is this week.

They don't care about Clay as a person, only as a weapon.

Giving him a customized unique power set would have undermined the story.

As for Silk... Apparently, she's a much better character when she's written by other people.

And Itsy-Bitsy's real name is Susan Mary. The fact that she's a trash tier fanfic character come to life completely with sociopathy and overuse of buzzwords is... Basically the entire point of her character.

You know their background si created by writers, not by the fictional evil government in comics, right???

All these characters are fanfic-level... And not even good fanfic... That kind of fanfic that creates the stereotype of fanfic characters being awful... Silk in particular... Just describing her backstory, powers and relationship tp Peter Parker makes my eye roll so far I can see my brain.

Well... This is par for the course for Marvel since the early 2010's... And even more since circa 2015. To think I even used to have their online subscription program... Now... Well... It's not surprising at all that mangá is kicking their butts.

[Rater202]

You know their background si created by writers, not by the fictional evil government in comics, right???

The writers have to work with what they're given. When writers ignore a character's previous history, you get a crappy story

And the previous history means that Weapon X isn't going to engineer unique powers from the ground up.

Previous history means that they're going to take the DNA of the deadliest mutant they've got their hands on and try to find a way to make it even deadlier.

If Weapon X just found a guy and gave him the power to spit acid and fly by shooting flasma out of his back, that would be jarring. IT's not on brand for Weapon X.


I mean, let's look at the facts: Clayton Cortez was created to serve as an antagonist in a crossover storyline between Hulk and the X-Men: Specifically, the Weapon X series which was about several former Weapon X test subjects teaming up to take down various Weapon X cells.

A gamma powered Weapon X project is pretty much the only thing you can do in that situation.

Weapon X has decades of history indicating that they prefer to work with the DNA of Wolverine and people similar to WOlverine when creating manufactured superhumans. When they don't, they're usually targeting people with generic brick packages or making cyborgs using adamantium.

"Hulverine" was the most logical choice.

Then people were interested in the Hulkverine that survived, escaped, and grew back the parts of his brain that got cut out so they could control him, so they did the Weapon H series.

Weapon H was one of the best comics of the year it was published and sold pretty well, so there's clearly a market for it.

And you can't just dismiss a character for being "fanfic quality" That superficial. You have to actually look at the character, and often you have to look at the character under the right writers.

Unbeleivable Gwenpool for example is a excellent series that takes a common fanfic premise (fan of thing gets inserted into world of thing*) and then uses it to tell a compelling story of personal growth, the realization of consequences, the nature of reality, and even a bit of an exploration of depression and fighting against the inevitable.

For the first couple of years of her existence, anytime Gwenpool had a guest appearance she was tuned into an obnoxious "Lolmemes" character with none of the depth that she has in her own comics.

*Well, her most recent mini suggests that she might be an omega-level mutant with clairvoyant powers who had a psychotic break when she suddenly knew all of the things.

And Marvel has had plenty of good stories in the last decade. It's just that the bad ones are the ones that get the most attention.

[Traab]

You know their background si created by writers, not by the fictional evil government in comics, right???

All these characters are fanfic-level... And not even good fanfic... That kind of fanfic that creates the stereotype of fanfic characters being awful... Silk in particular... Just describing her backstory, powers and relationship tp Peter Parker makes my eye roll so far I can see my brain.

Well... This is par for the course for Marvel since the early 2010's... And even more since circa 2015. To think I even used to have their online subscription program... Now... Well... It's not surprising at all that mangá is kicking their butts.

An established group acting in a way they are well established to act is hardly fanfic level. Im not sure why you think that to rise above fanfic level a new character has to be utterly unique in all facets from powers, to backstory, to motivation, but thats not how that works. You are taking the most superficial reading of the character possible, ignoring every bit of detail and nuance about the scenario, and declaring it trash. Thats your right of course, everyone is entitled to an opinion and all that, but its not one thats going to gain a huge following because of how shallow it is. It sounds like you have burned out on comics in general and thats too bad, but its understandable, I used to be an avid gamer and then I just started drifting away from it because I didnt like the way my preferred genre was being represented. I didnt like how it was being done so I stopped playing them. I didnt declare the entire genre to be trash however, just because it no longer matched my personal tastes.

[Lemmy]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

While I don"t think everything Marvel produced in the last decade is bad, IMHO, its general quality went down hard and I despise the way they treat some of my favorite characters... So I stopped reading it about 2 years ago, and don't plan to go back.

If you enjoy modern Marvel comics and their recent characters... Well... More power to you. I won't ever say you shouldn't enjoy whatever you enjoy. We all have a limited time on this planet, so as long as you're not harming anyone, by all means, have a blast!

Meanwhile, I will gladly spend my time and money somewhere else... And given the state of the comic book industry, I'm not the only one.

[The Glyphstone]

Personally, if I hadn't been told this Weapon H story was canon, I would assume it was a fanfiction. The good kind of fanfiction, the rare gem that takes an inherently dumb canon concept like "these bad guys mix Wolverine with Character Y" that every Weapon X storyline does to death and takes the time to really explore the idea rather than just have spandex covered lunatics punch each other for 120 pages.

[Traab]

Personally, if I hadn't been told this Weapon H story was canon, I would assume it was a fanfiction. The good kind of fanfiction, the rare gem that takes an inherently dumb canon concept like "these bad guys mix Wolverine with Character Y" that every Weapon X storyline does to death and takes the time to really explore the idea rather than just have spandex covered lunatics punch each other for 120 pages.

Honestly, whats the difference between good fanfiction and good fiction? You know, aside from being unofficial and written by a fan instead of the series author?

[GloatingSwine]

If Jack Kirby didn't write it personally, it's fanfiction :P

[The Glyphstone]

Honestly, whats the difference between good fanfiction and good fiction? You know, aside from being unofficial and written by a fan instead of the series author?

As someone who has technically gotten paid for writing fan fiction, I have no idea to be honest...

[Traab]

As someone who has technically gotten paid for writing fan fiction, I have no idea to be honest...

I mean, i was trying to think of identifiers that could separate the two, but most that i came up with only applied to BAD fanfiction and even then that applies to flat out bad fiction as well. You know, self inserts, mary sues, etc. Really, the only difference I can think of is one is officially canon and written by approved authors. The other is neither. Quality doesnt enter into it.

[The Glyphstone]

I mean, i was trying to think of identifiers that could separate the two, but most that i came up with only applied to BAD fanfiction and even then that applies to flat out bad fiction as well. You know, self inserts, mary sues, etc. Really, the only difference I can think of is one is officially canon and written by approved authors. The other is neither. Quality doesnt enter into it.

Reputation factor, I guess? Not a guarantee of quality, but an expectation of quality. Despite there being plenty of bad canon fiction (especially in a universe as bloated as Marvel), and plenty of good fan-fiction, it's somehow expected that Sturgeon's Law will rear its head more often in the latter so the exceptions become more surprising.

[Lemmy]

Honestly, whats the difference between good fanfiction and good fiction? You know, aside from being unofficial and written by a fan instead of the series author?

I'm sure you know this on some level, even if just intuitively... But when people say that something "looks like fanfic", they are almost always comparing it to one specific kind of fanfic... The one that gives a bad name to fanfic in general... With bad writing, lazy character design with protagonists with little or no personality, some super special skill "He's like X character! But Smarter/More powerful!" and cringe-worthy ties to existing characters ("She is the secret super-special sister/lover/daughter/whatever of the main character, who was never ever before mentioned and"... Or, say, "she was bitten by the same spider as Peter Parker, has the same powers, but better and Peter Parker is instinctively attracted to her!)

Gods... Silk is awful...

Now, sure, it's still possible to write good stories with those awful characters, but that doesn't make their design any less lazy and boring.

[Rater202]

I mean, if you wanna get technical, mos characters and core concepts for every major superhero universe were established in the 40s, 50s, and sixties.

So pretty much everything from Marvel and DC in the last several decades is arguably a fanfic.

And like, that's not a bad thing. Let's look at Arthurian Legend: The modern 'official' version of the lore draws heavily from Le Morte du Arthur... Which was a fanfic written by a french guy.

Complete with an OC who is just like, the best at everything and he's the father of Arthur's best knight and he's Arthur's best friend up until he bangs Arthur's wife.

I mean, if Weapon H sounds like a fanfic character... Does Deadpool sound like a Fanfic character? Becuase it's the same basic concept: Weapon X uses modified Wolverine DNA to give someone an arguably stronger variant of Wolverine's powers.

Edit: On Silk: Cindy isn't stronger than Peter. Her Spider-Sense is stronger and she has organic webbing, but that's because she's the Avatar of the Bride(the same way that Peter was the Avatar of The Other before One More Day and Kane was After.) All of he other powers are weaker, and her stronger Spider-Sense is on a hair trigger. It's been set off by someone on her roof being sad but not in any danger.

And The fact that Cindy and PEter are instinctively attracted to each other due to pheromones was presented as a bad thing. It was awkward at best and Peter was very uncomfortable with it.

And then they got used to each other's pheromones and it stopped being a problem.

The problem with Silk isn't her concept. The problem with Silk is that she was created by a hack.

[Lemmy]

They can create all sorts of justification for Silk to be "spider man, but with extra powers and a better spider sense... And she was bitten by the same spider, and Peter Parks wants to screw her"... But the justifications don't erase the godawful stupid character concept.

She's still a lazy copy-paste character that doesn't really add anything to the lore, detracts from the uniqueness of a character and ultimately would be better off never having existed.

I've read the stories that included her... And all other recent crappy Marvel characters. I sued to read pretty much everything Marvel. It wasn't easy to get me to stop reading and caring about Marvel comics... But Marvel sure did it.

Now, I get to watch as the comics industry circles around the drain... Never thought this day would come, but here we are.

[Rater202]

Peter doesn't want to sleep with Cindy.

That's the problem. The pheromones she lets off compel him to do things with her against his will.

It's presented as a bad thing. And then Peter developed an immunity to Cindy's pheremones and vice versa and it ceased to be an issue.

And again, she's not stronger than Peter. She can only lift seven tons, she's not as durable as Peter, her reflexes aren't automatic, and her Spider-sense is completely unreliable due to being overly sensitive.

Really the only thing she has going for her is that she makes her own web-fluid, and even that's a gift from The Bride, not her own natural power. (Much the same way that Peter used to have poisoned spines hidden in his wrists)

[Traab]

They can create all sorts of justification for Silk to be "spider man, but with extra powers and a better spider sense... And she was bitten by the same spider, and Peter Parks wants to screw her"... But the justifications don't erase the godawful stupid character concept.

She's still a lazy copy-paste character that doesn't really add anything to the lore, detracts from the uniqueness of a character and ultimately would be better off never having existed.

I've read the stories that included her... And all other recent crappy Marvel characters. I sued to read pretty much everything Marvel. It wasn't easy to get me to stop reading and caring about Marvel comics... But Marvel sure did it.

Now, I get to watch as the comics industry circles around the drain... Never thought this day would come, but here we are.

Did you have this much of a fit about the super family? "Great, now we have teen girl superman. And here comes girl superman with boob window. How lame. What a lazy copy paste character that detracts from the uniqueness of a character. " There are literally dozens of other characters that your complaint could apply to going back decades upon decades of comic history. Many of whom are popular today.

[Lemmy]

Peter doesn't want to sleep with Cindy.

That's the problem. The pheromones she lets off compel him to do things with her against his will.

It's presented as a bad thing. And then Peter developed an immunity to Cindy's pheremones and vice versa and it ceased to be an issue.

And again, she's not stronger than Peter. She can only lift seven tons, she's not as durable as Peter, her reflexes aren't automatic, and her Spider-sense is completely unreliable due to being overly sensitive.

Really the only thing she has going for her is that she makes her own web-fluid, and even that's a gift from The Bride, not her own natural power. (Much the same way that Peter used to have poisoned spines hidden in his wrists)

Right, sorry... "Is instinctively horny for her". Much better. Definitely doesn't sound like crappy fanfic now...

She's "spider-man but more powerful" either way. Has extra powers, and the difference in strength and durability is just nominal. No writer actually checks if the character is doing something beyond their strength... Specially when it gets into the "can lift several tons" level...

Instead of creating a truly new character, they just went with the laziest possible route... Create a boring copy-paste character with a gender-swap and throw in some extra powers.

If you enjoy the character... Good for you. Honestly. But her character concept is crappy-fanfiic levels of laziness and unoriginality (is that a word? Not sure... I'll use it anyway).

[Rater202]

She's "spider-man but more powerful" either way.

She is explicitly not. She is physically weaker and has to completely ignore her spider-sense because it literally goes off if people around her are sad making her objectively inferior a spider-person.

[Lemmy]

You don't have to keep explaining the character for me... Despite my disdain for Silk (and a bunch of other newer characters, as well the way Marvel has treated their own characters) I had the misfortune of reading a lot of stories starring her (and other lazy ripoff characters). That's how I even know these characters and stories well enough to disdain them.

I used to read and love basically everything Marvel... But in the last few years, Marvel made it increasingly hard to enjoy, or even care about, their stories and characters.

Like I said, if you still find them entertaining... Good for you. I truly mean that... But as of right now, I couldn't have less interest or a lower opinion of Marvel comics.