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    Default Beholder kids (humanoid beholder race)

    A thread over on the 5e subforum about playing as an AL legal beholder reminded me of this old homebrew of mine. This might actually be one of the first races I homebrewed, and I've learned a lot about homebrewing since then, and thought I'd touch it up or rewrite it.

    Some background about how this came to be (which explains some of the design choices): Originally, I was creating this for a specific character concept that was a GOOlock with a beholder patron. I was using the guide by James Musicus, and in order to optimize the race I made them small (warlocks don't care about being small) so that I could have more points to spend on other racial features. I then needed to justify why they were small, and decided that they would look children. So, while the thread title is a jest, it's actually an accurate description of the race. From there, the concept took on a life of its own, and I continued to tweak and refine it even after I had long forgotten the original build it was meant for.

    Quick summary of the race: a beheld (plural beholden) resembles a normal humanoid child, and are often mistake for children of other humanoid races, especially humans or elves. They are created by a beholder's dream to serve as both a pet and as their agents in humanoid cities. Like their progenitors, they have one eye ray for each eye (two, in this case), and they have a large birth mark of an eye on their belly that can project a special field; the effects of these rays and fields vary from beheld to beheld. They can also float, but only very slowly, so they usually reserve their flight for when walking isn't an option (also, most humanoids can't float, so it would draw unwanted attention).

    Here's a copypaste of the original lore fluff I wrote up for this, with a few tweaks. I think most of this is solid and doesn't need any further change.
    Spoiler: Lore
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    Stuff of Dreams
    When a beholder dreams, their imagination can manifest into reality. In fact, this is the primary way that beholders reproduce. But other beholders aren’t the only thing that a dreaming beholder can create.

    Beholders are egotistical narcissists, believing themselves to be superior to all other races and even superior to other beholders. They view humans and such the same way we view animals. To them, humans are, at worst, dangerous vermin to be eradicated or slaves to be dominated, and at best, they are pets to be tolerated as long as they remain loyal. Sometimes, in the dreams of a beholder, they imagine the perfect humanoid pet, and when they awaken, there lies the beheld.

    The beholden are the perfect beholder’s pet, a humanoid-beholder hybrid that is fiercely loyal to their creator. The beheld acts as an agent of the beholder in the realms of men and elves and dwarves, using their natural charm to manipulate others.

    Although beholden resemble humanoid children, their appearance can vary considerably, and they often resemble the beholder that created them in the color of their skin, hair, or eyes. One notable feature is that each beheld has a large birthmark of an eye on their belly with the pupil centered on their navel, reminiscent of the central eye of a beholder.

    Forever Young
    Much as a human might wish for a pet cat that stays a kitten forever, or a dog that never grew beyond being a puppy, such is the beheld to the beholder that created them. When first spawned into existence, the beheld resembles a 2 year old human child (skipping past the messy diaper stage), and has a similar level of knowledge as a 2 year old human would, imparted to them during the dream that created them.

    After this, the beheld matures physically at half the rate of a human for about 14 years, stopping when they resemble a 9 year old. At this point, the beheld stops growing physically, but continues to develop mentally. The beheld maintains a childlike temperament and demeanor their whole life, and often puts on a facade of a simple-minded child to fool others, but in reality they are devious and cunning, scheming to further the goals of their creator.

    It’s not known if the beholden have a limit to their lifespan. Certainly they don’t seem to suffer any effects of old age, and may even outlive the beholder that created them. It is said that as a beheld grows older and becomes weary of life, they may dream of their own death, causing them to fade away in their sleep.

    Friendly Faces
    Unlike beholders, the beholden are quite social and friendly, a great asset to any beholder that creates one. Being physically smaller and weaker than many humanoid races, they rely on their charm to avoid confrontation and achieve their goals. Beholden are not any more malicious than a human, although they may do evil acts at the command of their creator.

    Depending on how common beholden are, they may be viewed differently by the other races. If beholden are very rare, then most people aren’t aware of their existence and will presume them to be human or elf children. Beholden can recognize one another, however, and they are almost always the agent of a beholder, so a beheld will be extremely cautious of other beholden and may actively seek to kill them or interrogate them about their beholder master.

    If enough beholden are created, they might be able to take hold as their own race, independent of the beholders that first created them. In this case, they will likely be viewed as just another race, perhaps similar to halflings or gnomes. Most beholden will be created by their own kind instead of by a beholder, meaning it’s much less likely that they’ll be agents of a beholder (alternatively, a single beholder might have an entire tribe of beholden in their service). Even so, beholden are still trusting and loyal, and tend to attach themselves to stronger creatures who act as almost a parental leader. It’s unusual to see a group of beholden living independently.

    Beholden are able to reproduce in a manner similar to how they were first created. Beholden are asexual, but still experience romantic attractions and will seek out a mate. If a male and female beheld dream together of having a child, then a new beheld will appear next to them when they awaken.

    Beholder Slayers
    Beholders are incredibly xenophobic, but the creature they hate the most of all is another beholder. They always consider themselves to be the purest example of their race, and view all other beholders as inferior, even disgusting and repulsive. As such, it is exceedingly rare for beholders to cooperate with one another, and the presence of another beholder represents a threat.

    Beholders are also terrifying monsters, and can easily be the end of a career of even experienced adventurers. Beholders fortunate enough to spawn a beheld will often task them in assisting with bringing down rival beholders, their dream having blessed the beheld with abilities tailored specifically toward killing beholders. Though beholden are generally better suited to social intrigue than combat, their beholder masters expect unwavering loyalty and obedience, especially on the extermination of rival beholders.

    Of course, this represents a risk to the beholder itself, as there is the possibility that the beheld might turn against them. This is perhaps why they are so insistent that their beholden pets use their abilities to slay rival beholders, as otherwise the gift is nothing but a liability. But as beholders are both cunning and paranoid, they will of course prepare for the betrayal of their beholden, and create suitable plans, traps, and countermeasures to deal with them should the need arise.

    In most cases, however, this is unnecessary, but then so are most of the paranoid machinations of beholders. Beholden are almost always fiercely loyal to their creators, like a puppy to a human master. It generally takes years of abuse at the hands (eyestalks?) of their master, often combined with a fear for their life, for a beheld to turn against their master. The childlike demeanor of beholden generally results in a stunted sense of morality, so it is difficult for a beheld to perceive their master as evil, even when the beholder hurts people the beheld cares about.

    Beholden are particularly susceptible to falling victim of cults or other groups or individuals that are themselves masters at manipulating people. If a beheld’s master is slain, or the beheld grew up without a beholder master, they will often seek out someone else to act as a parental figure to them. Even decades of experience with social intrigue will sometimes abandon them when they feel alone and lost, and they can walk into what would have been an obvious trap in order to find the stability their master once provided in their life.

    Beheld Traits

    Age. Beholden spawn with the appearance and psyche of a 2 year old human, and grow for around 14 years at half the rate of a human until they resemble a 9 year old human. After this point, they stop aging physically, but continue to develop mentally, although they retain the demeanor of a child. They have no known limit on their lifespan and don’t suffer any effects of old age, but will eventually dream of their own death and fade from this life.

    Alignment. Beholden often have a stunted sense of morality, making it difficult to distinguish between evil and good. As such, they tend toward neutrality, and often see their master (or other parental figure) as being good. Regardless of alignment, they are almost always friendly, using subterfuge and manipulation to achieve their goals instead of brute force.

    Beholden have three major racial traits; namely, their eye rays, their central eye cone, and their flight, and all of these have been written largely from scratch by me (which is why they're in desperate need of a rewrite now). They also have some other features, like darkvision and a free skill proficiency, those are pretty standard and so shouldn't need any rebalancing. Let's go over those three main traits first, and we'll see what we might be able to do to properly balance them, and then we can talk about some of those extra features.

    Eye Rays
    The eye rays are at-will abilities that act like a watered down version of a beholder's eye rays. My expectation is that they'd be roughly comparable to cantrips (and actually cantrips are among the options you can choose for your eye rays), perhaps a bit stronger due to being a unique racial feature. In actuality, the power level of my original eye rays seems to be all over the place, some of them looking more like 2nd level spells than cantrips. Obviously some work is needed here.

    One example of where I screwed up with this is that I originally discarded the petrification ray because I (correctly) thought that permanent petrification was too strong for an at-will ability, but decided to keep the paralysis ray. At-will paralysis, even if it only lasts one turn, is still crazy strong. I tried to patch this by giving advantage on saves after they pass at least once, but I don't think that's a good design choice. Now, I'm leaning toward swapping out the paralyzing ray for a ray that causes temporary petrification. For non-combat use, both paralyzation and petrification achieve similar results (they stop an NPC from moving, allowing to you move past them or search the area without being disturbed), but in combat they are very different. Petrification actually makes the target more resilient, so while you can attack them while they're incapacitated, unlike with paralysis your attacks become less effective, so you're actually better off focusing on other targets until the petrification ends.

    One of the design goals for the eye rays was to make sure I have at least one ray for each type of saving throw. You only get two rays, so you can't have an answer to everything, but you could pick the rays that target the saves you otherwise couldn't. Another aspect of the design that I wanted was the ability to shoot both eye rays simultaneously. Likely this means spending both your action and bonus action, and both rays must have the same target. Currently, this isn't available until 5th level, and if both your eye rays are cantrips then the BA cantrip is cast unscaled (as if you were 1st level).

    Let's consider our options for cleaning this up. I don't particularly like giving advantage to the saves after a target succeeds once, it just seems like a finicky mechanic. I'd also prefer to avoid concentration, particularly as the central eye cone already uses concentration, and you should be able to use it and the eye rays simultaneously. I generally already give a save at the end of every turn, so that's a good start. I'm still undecided on how long durations should be; I've vacillated between 1 minute, 1 round, and 1d4 rounds. I'm not sure I like the idea of rolling a die to determine duration, but it seems like a decent middle ground. Question: If the duration is 1d4 rounds (or any other rolled amount), should the DM roll it in secret, or should the player roll it? I think I'll allow the player to refresh/extend the duration by using the eye ray again. Otherwise, I think we'll just need to water down the effect until it fits the power level we're going for. So, for example, instead of paralyzing the target, it might simply reduce speed to 0 and prevent taking any actions.

    One last question: What color should each ray be? I generally assume that the eye rays are visible, so using them in public would be noticed. I do make an exception for the charm ray and telepathic ray, which are invisible (but can be seen by those who can see invisible things). I currently have colors assigned to each ray, but I'm curious what others would suggest.

    Here's my current list of available eye rays (keep in mind they always get a save at the end of their turn, where applicable):
    • Banishing Ray. Sends the target to a harmless demiplane for 1 minute on a failed CHA save.
    • Charm Ray. Charms the target for 1 minute on a failed WIS save. If they pass the save, they know you charmed them, but you can end the effect early to avoid this. This ray is invisible.
    • Fear Ray. Frightens the target for 1 round on a failed WIS save.
    • Petrification Ray. Restrains the target if they fail the initial CON save, and petrifies them for 1 minute if they fail the next save at the end of their turn.
    • Revealing Cone. Projects a cone of bright/dim light out to 30/60 feet. You're made aware if there is anything concealed (illusions, transmutations, shapeshifting, etc.) within the bright light cone, but you don't know which effect you're detecting or were it is. Handy to pair with other detection spells and abilities to pinpoint/narrow down what you're detecting.
    • Sickening Ray. Poisons the target for 1 round on a failed CON save.
    • Sleep Ray. Puts the target to sleep for 1 minute on a failed WIS save.
    • Slowing Ray. Halves speed and the target can't take reaction for 1 minute on a failed DEX save.
    • Spell Ray. Replicates the chosen cantrip. Doesn't require spell components.
    • Telekinetic Ray. Moves a medium or smaller target 10 feet in any direction on a failed STR save. Can move (up to 30 feet) and manipulate objects weighing 10 lbs. or less.
    • Telepathic Ray. Read the target's surface thoughts until the start of your next turn on a failed INT save. If they pass, they know you tried to probe their thoughts. While reading their thoughts, you can speak telepathically to them. This ray is invisible.

    As you can see, I already swapped out the paralyzing ray for a petrification ray, and made a few other minor tweaks, mostly to durations. I also added the sickening ray. What can I do to make this better? What are some other interesting rays I could add?

    Central Eye Cone
    Starting at 3rd level, beholden get access to their signature cone effect that emanates out of mark on their belly. All cones project out to 60 feet, last 1 minute, and require concentration. In every case, the cone's effect disappears once a target is no longer inside the cone. You need to finish a long rest to use the cone again. I don't think cones include the caster in the area of effect by default, leaving you exposed and susceptible to losing your concentration.

    Because the cone projects out of the mark on your belly, that mark must be exposed when you use your cone. You can't use your cone if you are wearing armor unless that armor has been modified to leave your belly exposed, reducing the AC it gives you. Magic armor can adjust automatically when it is donned to either cover your belly or expose it. This restriction made sense to me, as covering your eyes would likewise prevent you from using your eye rays. If a beholder closes their central eye (i.e. "covers" their eye with an eyelid), their anti-magic cone also disappears. Also, this has interesting RP consequences. The mark on your belly is large and distinctive; anyone familiar with your kind would instantly know what you are, and even those who are completely ignorant would consider it unusual and might get curious and investigate. So you'd probably want to hide your mark when not using it, but using it requires revealing it. You wouldn't have to have it exposed all the time, a simple cloak would be sufficient to hide it while not in use while allowing you to open it up to use the cone.

    These cones are all designed to aid in killing beholders, but can be applied to a variety of situations. Some of the write ups are a bit messy, but here's the current list of options available:
    • Assuring Cone. All creatures (friend and foe) in the cone add a d4 to any save they make. As a reaction, you can turn a failed save into a success, but this immediately ends the cone effect.
    • Blinding Cone. Creatures that start their turn in the cone, or enter it on their turn, must pass a CON save or be blinded. They get another save at the start of each turn.
    • Distorting Cone. Traps creatures inside a warped space, requiring an INT save to escape. The cone is also treated like a singular space, where everything is everywhere. This allows e.g. melee attacks to be made from much further away, or allows you to subject creatures to environmental hazards. AoE affects that include any part of the cone will also include all of it.
    • Gravity Cone. Prevents flying or jumping, increases fall damage, and requires a check for any climbing, and imposes disadvantage any time a climb check would have been required normally.
    • Obscuring Cone. Creatures in the cone become mostly invisible, appearing as distorted shadowy wisps. It's possible to tell that someone is there, but you can't tell how many or where exactly.
    • Spell-Eating Cone. Spells and magical effects with a range of at least 10 feet cast from inside the the cone or on a target inside the cone will be redirected to you or your location, even if you are out of range. If the attack roll misses or you pass the save, you completely nullify the spell or effect and regain a few HP.

    Flight
    Racial flight is a bit controversial. I, personally, think it's useful but that people overestimate its power. But it does change what sorts of challenges are appropriate, and requires more effort from the DM. I didn't just decide to give them flight out of thin air, though; safely navigating a beholder's lair practically requires it. Beholders themselves can fly, and being excessively paranoid they often construct vertical lairs that are difficult to navigate for landbound creatures, and fill the floor with various traps. If beholden are the beholder's pet, then they should be able to safely navigate the beholder's lair without requiring the beholder to reduce their defenses.

    Now, beholders are actually pretty slow, with only a 20 foot fly speed. If a fight against one is going poorly, running away is an option (though watch out for the range on their eye rays). So for the beholden, I thought it might be sufficiently balancing to simply give them a really slow fly speed, in the realm of 10 feet. They have to Dash to keep up with their masters. This still trivializes certain challenges, and lets you solve certain puzzles easily (albeit slowly), but it does make it a lot less useful in combat at least.

    Last time I posted a thread on this race, various solutions were discussed, but I didn't see anything that seemed like a good fit. Something like a climb speed just doesn't seem on brand for a beholderkin. One option proposed was to limit them to hovering a certain distance off the ground, but making the distance short enough to keep flight in check would probably render it unusual for its intended purpose, namely navigating the beholder's lair.

    In the end, I think this is probably fine. It's definitely a lot weaker than the flight granted by the tiefling or aarakocra, although you don't need wings and can wear heavy armor. It might be an issue consider all the other racial features you get, but the excessively slow speed might make it a fair trade.

    Other Features
    Fun fact: beholden didn't originally get darkvision, which is why the revealing cone (eye ray) exists. Now they do. I'm also currently giving a choice of Perception, Insight, or Investigation proficiency, playing on the paranoia theme for beholders. I could axe either of these features, though. You also get Common, Undercommon, and Deep Speech as languages.

    One negative trait I'm playing with the idea of adding is a sort of inverse to Powerful Build. Stunted Build, if you will. While other small races physically mature when they reach adulthood, beholden do not, forever having the physique of a child. As such, their muscles and bones aren't quite as strong as, say, a halflings. As for the effect of this, I'm thinking it would reduce carry capacity from 15 * STR to 12 * STR, so with a STR of 10 you'd have a capacity of 120 lbs. instead of 150 lbs. For variant encumbrance, this would correspond to 4 * STR for a light load, and 8 * STR for a heavy load, instead of 5 * STR and 10 * STR. Maybe this nerf is meaningless, having too negligible of an effect to be worth the effort of tracking it.

    Whew, having gone back over this, I don't know that there's that much room to make big changes without changing fundamental aspects of the race. So mostly I think things just need a proper rewrite to make sure they're appropriately balanced.

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    Default Re: Beholder kids (humanoid beholder race)

    Definitely needs some art. Here's the closest I could find to a cute beholder.

    Spoiler
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    Regarding flight, how about allowing EXTRA slow flight (like 10 ft. move speed) as an option, or regular move speed by using their feet. Then they have a utility capability but it's not going to be used every combat.

    Regarding duration, perhaps make the stronger effects require Concentration. Then you can have up to one active, but that limits your other spellcasting and removes the ability to spam stronger effects.
    Last edited by flat_footed; 2021-06-12 at 08:45 AM.

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    Daemon

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    Default Re: Beholder kids (humanoid beholder race)



    I have some thoughts. Notably I created a whole 5e class that I believe won a homebrew contest. It can maybe be mined for inspiration...

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...Vt9CmjpnE/edit
    Last edited by flat_footed; 2021-06-12 at 08:45 AM.

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    Default Re: Beholder kids (humanoid beholder race)

    Here are a couple other takes on a beheld's appearance:

    Spoiler: Cyclopean with eyestalks on her head.
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    Spoiler: Cyclopean with eyestalks on her back.
    Show

    The latter is my favourite, especially with 6 eyestalks. If you add the arms and legs, that makes 10 appendages as possessed by true beholders and many beholder-kin (for example the gauth, which has 6 eyestalks and 4 tentacles).
    Last edited by flat_footed; 2021-06-12 at 08:45 AM.

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    Default Re: Beholder kids (humanoid beholder race)

    Quote Originally Posted by Nifft View Post
    Definitely needs some art. Here's the closest I could find to a cute beholder.
    Quote Originally Posted by Millstone85 View Post
    Here are a couple other takes on a beheld's appearance:
    To be clear, the race proposed here looks like a normal (possibly exotic/foreign depending on coloring) humanoid. No cyclonean eye, no eyestalks. Other humanoid beholders might have such features, but beholden need to be able to blend in with society in order to work as agents for their masters.

    Although... with a bit of shapeshifting, it might be possible to do both. But feel like the race is already a bit busy as it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nifft View Post
    Regarding flight, how about allowing EXTRA slow flight (like 10 ft. move speed) as an option, or regular move speed by using their feet. Then they have a utility capability but it's not going to be used every combat.
    Yup, that's how I'm handling it right now. They have a 25 foot walk speed (like other small races), and their fly speed is only 10 feet. They can still float out of melee range, or use their flight to solve puzzles (albeit slowly), and that might be too strong for some people to want to use it at their table.

    Regarding duration, perhaps make the stronger effects require Concentration. Then you can have up to one active, but that limits your other spellcasting and removes the ability to spam stronger effects.
    I did think about this, but it interferes with their ability to use their cone feature, or use both eye rays together (although most of the effects that would need concentration as a balancing mechanic wouldn't benefit to be applied simultaneously; oh no, he's petrified and put to sleep, now he can't take any actions twice).

    Quote Originally Posted by BerzerkerUnit View Post
    I have some thoughts. Notably I created a whole 5e class that I believe won a homebrew contest. It can maybe be mined for inspiration...

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...Vt9CmjpnE/edit
    Interesting that you called it the same thing I did. Although it is a kind of obvious name to pick. Maybe I should shop around for a new one?

    If I understand your class after a brief skim, it's basically a modified warlock where glance = cantrip, glare = 1st-5th level spell, and gaze = Mystic Arcanum? The Swift Glance feature seems to mirror my idea for using both eye rays at once by using one as a BA, although your version has a lot more eye rays/glances to use. Sadly, I'm not sure there's much I can use there. The design constraints on races are just much tighter, so I don't have as much room to expand on different concepts. Using the central eye for Counterspell and Dispel Magic is an interesting idea, so I might be able to do something there if I make a tweak to how the central eye cone works for my race. Probably not those exact spells, as they wouldn't help in a beholder fight, but something like using a reaction to give advantage on saves vs. magical effects might be comparable.
    Last edited by flat_footed; 2021-06-12 at 08:45 AM.

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    Default Re: Beholder kids (humanoid beholder race)

    Quote Originally Posted by Greywander View Post
    To be clear, the race proposed here looks like a normal (possibly exotic/foreign depending on coloring) humanoid. No cyclonean eye, no eyestalks. Other humanoid beholders might have such features, but beholden need to be able to blend in with society in order to work as agents for their masters.

    Although... with a bit of shapeshifting, it might be possible to do both. But feel like the race is already a bit busy as it is.
    They could be like the yuan-ti. They would come in various combinations of human and beholder traits, and those that can best pass for human would do the spy work.

    But you are right to keep it simple.

    Quote Originally Posted by Greywander View Post
    Beholden are able to reproduce in a manner similar to how they were first created. Beholden are asexual, but still experience romantic attractions and will seek out a mate. If a male and female beheld dream together of having a child, then a new beheld will appear next to them when they awaken.
    Well, that's a bit uncomfortable. Imagine a DM introducing three "9-year-old children" and then explaining that two of them are a couple and brought the third to life by sleeping together.
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    Default Re: Beholder kids (humanoid beholder race)

    Quote Originally Posted by Millstone85 View Post
    They could be like the yuan-ti. They would come in various combinations of human and beholder traits, and those that can best pass for human would do the spy work.

    But you are right to keep it simple.

    Well, that's a bit uncomfortable. Imagine a DM introducing three "9-year-old children" and then explaining that two of them are a couple and brought the third to life by sleeping together.
    I thought majority of players want more yuan ti subtypes for the Malisons, so I don’t think breaking these down for variety (which may also allow some more freedom with eye Ray options by specializing) would be bad.

    There’s a lot going on in the last bit. I don’t think any lines have been crossed at this time, but I don’t think this the best forum for discussing it. I would ask that anyone else choosing to engage in such a discussion do so via pm or choose a better venue for it.
    Last edited by flat_footed; 2021-06-12 at 08:46 AM.

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    Default Re: Beholder kids (humanoid beholder race)

    I agree the forum isn't the best place to discuss it, but this race does hit a lot of the same problems any particularly human-like small race does, and to higher degree than average. The description of them as pets makes it a bit worse. Maybe add some more details like the yuan-ti purebloods have where they're creepily not quite human if you spend more than a minute looking. That said, I actually like the detail where they literally sleep together instead of having human-like reproduction; it is significantly less disturbing.

    For those looking for pictures, humanoids that are explicitly beholderkin usually have the eyestalks. If you want them dropped I'd suggest searching for a cyclops that's not muscular.
    Spoiler: Examples
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    Balance notes:
    • Banishing Ray shouldn't last more than a round. Interfering with action economy like that is very strong. A Poisoned or frightened creature can still act, for instance.
    • Charm ray seems a bit strong, especially since you can avoid the target knowing you charmed it by cutting it short after 9 rounds.
    • Putting a single enemy to sleep is likely in line with poisoned and frightened conditions, as long as it takes an action to shake them awake.
    • I like the petrification ray thematically, but see the preceding for why it hard to tell the ray's power. A restraining ray by itself would likely be strong enough to justify cutting it to one round long.
    Whereas a "Spell Ray," I think is a bad idea conceptually. Being able to replicate some spells (ex: acid splash, thaumaturgy) I don't think would fit the fluff, and replicating eldritch blast might become a problem when you can use both rays together. I would maybe grant only some cantrips, and use the opportunity to bring some of the other rays back into line power-wise (like the Charm ray merely casting Friends). For reference, cantrips that probably do work well with eye rays likely include chill touch, firebolt, lightning lure, poison spray, ray of frost, thorn whip, and viscous mockery.

    I also assume you're aiming for something comparable to a 1st or 2nd level spell with the main eye powers.
    • Assuring Cone: looks neat, as it functions as an AoE resistance it should be fine.
    • Blinding Cone: 1 minute long, repeated color spray with a 60 foot range is too strong. Yes, I know color spray is a weaker 1st level spell, but you're removing the factors that make it a weaker 1st level spell.
    • Distorting Cone: If this means you can be targeted with melee attacks that have a 5 foot reach, I think it's probably fine. What happens if someone attempts to walk through the cone, though? Do they just spend 10 feet of movement, exiting the cone in any place they like?
    • Gravity Cone: I like it. Would make a good 1st level spell.
    • Obscuring Cone: I'd like to check this means you have disadvantage on attacking a creature, but know which square to aim at. If so, seems fine.
    • Spell-Eating Cone: this makes me nervous. I see the lore reason for it, and it would be great for killing rival beholders. Maybe fine, but if you can get your AC and saves high enough you're unlikely to get hurt and therefore unlikely to need to make cons saves maintain concentration (which is otherwise the main thing keeping from being too strong).
    Last edited by flat_footed; 2021-06-12 at 08:47 AM.

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    Default Re: Beholder kids (humanoid beholder race)

    Quote Originally Posted by sandmote View Post
    I agree the forum isn't the best place to discuss it, but this race does hit a lot of the same problems any particularly human-like small race does, and to higher degree than average. The description of them as pets makes it a bit worse. Maybe add some more details like the yuan-ti purebloods have where they're creepily not quite human if you spend more than a minute looking. That said, I actually like the detail where they literally sleep together instead of having human-like reproduction; it is significantly less disturbing.

    For those looking for pictures, humanoids that are explicitly beholderkin usually have the eyestalks. If you want them dropped I'd suggest searching for a cyclops that's not muscular.
    Spoiler: Examples
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    Balance notes:
    • Banishing Ray shouldn't last more than a round. Interfering with action economy like that is very strong. A Poisoned or frightened creature can still act, for instance.
    • Charm ray seems a bit strong, especially since you can avoid the target knowing you charmed it by cutting it short after 9 rounds.
    • Putting a single enemy to sleep is likely in line with poisoned and frightened conditions, as long as it takes an action to shake them awake.
    • I like the petrification ray thematically, but see the preceding for why it hard to tell the ray's power. A restraining ray by itself would likely be strong enough to justify cutting it to one round long.
    Whereas a "Spell Ray," I think is a bad idea conceptually. Being able to replicate some spells (ex: acid splash, thaumaturgy) I don't think would fit the fluff, and replicating eldritch blast might become a problem when you can use both rays together. I would maybe grant only some cantrips, and use the opportunity to bring some of the other rays back into line power-wise (like the Charm ray merely casting Friends). For reference, cantrips that probably do work well with eye rays likely include chill touch, firebolt, lightning lure, poison spray, ray of frost, thorn whip, and viscous mockery.

    I also assume you're aiming for something comparable to a 1st or 2nd level spell with the main eye powers.
    • Assuring Cone: looks neat, as it functions as an AoE resistance it should be fine.
    • Blinding Cone: 1 minute long, repeated color spray with a 60 foot range is too strong. Yes, I know color spray is a weaker 1st level spell, but you're removing the factors that make it a weaker 1st level spell.
    • Distorting Cone: If this means you can be targeted with melee attacks that have a 5 foot reach, I think it's probably fine. What happens if someone attempts to walk through the cone, though? Do they just spend 10 feet of movement, exiting the cone in any place they like?
    • Gravity Cone: I like it. Would make a good 1st level spell.
    • Obscuring Cone: I'd like to check this means you have disadvantage on attacking a creature, but know which square to aim at. If so, seems fine.
    • Spell-Eating Cone: this makes me nervous. I see the lore reason for it, and it would be great for killing rival beholders. Maybe fine, but if you can get your AC and saves high enough you're unlikely to get hurt and therefore unlikely to need to make cons saves maintain concentration (which is otherwise the main thing keeping from being too strong).
    Ehhh, I took the pet description as being more representative of their creators being incarnate narcissism.

    I took a stab at some racial subclasses for monsters, they had a feel more like this, I’ll dig up a link to the write up.
    Last edited by flat_footed; 2021-06-12 at 08:47 AM.

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    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Beholder kids (humanoid beholder race)

    Quote Originally Posted by sandmote View Post
    For those looking for pictures, humanoids that are explicitly beholderkin usually have the eyestalks. If you want them dropped I'd suggest searching for a cyclops that's not muscular.
    To match Greywander's description, we must also forgo cyclops.

    A beheld has two eyes, both on their face, just like a human would, except the beheld can shoot magic out of their eyes. A beheld also has an eye-like birthmark on their belly, from which they can produce a magic cone.

    In other words, the beheld is like a Kryptonian Care Bear, minus the bear. Gotta admit I never thought of that when imagining a humanoid beholder.
    Last edited by flat_footed; 2021-06-12 at 08:47 AM.

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    Default Re: Beholder kids (humanoid beholder race)

    Sheriff: Thread title changed to be less problematic. Feel free to change it to something else that captures your concept but not back to the original.
    Forum Rules

    Sheriff Roland by Chris the Pontifex

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Beholder kids (humanoid beholder race)

    Monster Subclasses

    For the "monster subclass" you chose a monster of choice as a Race and then it's "subclass features" replaced your subclass while allowing your class to progress normally.

    Using Beholden as a baseline, you could create a subclass that incorporates all the features you want it to have and just have it be a support or branch for the base class chosen.

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    Default Re: Beholder kids (humanoid beholder race)

    Some suggestions for new thread tittles:
    • Beholder Brats
    • Children of the Eye
    • Eye Kids
    • Eye Minors
    • Eye Tyrant Tykes
    • Eye Squirts
    • Lil' Cultists
    • Monocular Moppets
    • Tiny Hands of the Eyes

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    Default Re: Beholder kids (humanoid beholder race)

    Quote Originally Posted by Maat Mons View Post
    Some suggestions for new thread tittles:
    • Beholder Brats
    • Children of the Eye
    • Eye Kids
    • Eye Minors
    • Eye Tyrant Tykes
    • Eye Squirts
    • Lil' Cultists
    • Monocular Moppets
    • Tiny Hands of the Eyes
    Beholder Eye Stalks
    Eye Stalks

    Lil’Eye
    Lil’Stalks

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    Default Re: Beholder kids (humanoid beholder race)

    Quote Originally Posted by Millstone85 View Post
    Well, that's a bit uncomfortable. Imagine a DM introducing three "9-year-old children" and then explaining that two of them are a couple and brought the third to life by sleeping together.
    Quote Originally Posted by BerzerkerUnit View Post
    There’s a lot going on in the last bit. I don’t think any lines have been crossed at this time, but I don’t think this the best forum for discussing it. I would ask that anyone else choosing to engage in such a discussion do so via pm or choose a better venue for it.
    Quote Originally Posted by sandmote View Post
    I agree the forum isn't the best place to discuss it, but this race does hit a lot of the same problems any particularly human-like small race does, and to higher degree than average. The description of them as pets makes it a bit worse. Maybe add some more details like the yuan-ti purebloods have where they're creepily not quite human if you spend more than a minute looking. That said, I actually like the detail where they literally sleep together instead of having human-like reproduction; it is significantly less disturbing.
    I agree this is ground that should be tread very carefully, for obvious reasons. It's been a while since I wrote that up, but I think I just wanted to have the option of having them as an independent race, without needing to rely on beholders to make more of them. Beholders are not very nice monsters, so consigning their existence as a people to being slaves to narcissistic meatballs seems a bit dark. This at least gives them a chance to establish an independent existence. I did try to make it as G-rated as possible, and I think the result is actually kind of adorable.

    This might be something I revisit and modify, though. The thing is, if I made them age normally into adulthood, I feel like they'd lose a lot of the things that make them unique and interesting. Even from a lore perspective, it makes sense that their beholder master would want them weak and subservient so that they can't rebel against them, and stunting their growth would help with that. There might be some room to tweak things while still keeping the basic concept intact, though. For example, maybe slaying their creator allows them to grow to adulthood.

    Balance notes:
    • Banishing Ray shouldn't last more than a round. Interfering with action economy like that is very strong. A Poisoned or frightened creature can still act, for instance.
    • Charm ray seems a bit strong, especially since you can avoid the target knowing you charmed it by cutting it short after 9 rounds.
    • Putting a single enemy to sleep is likely in line with poisoned and frightened conditions, as long as it takes an action to shake them awake.
    • I like the petrification ray thematically, but see the preceding for why it hard to tell the ray's power. A restraining ray by itself would likely be strong enough to justify cutting it to one round long.
    Whereas a "Spell Ray," I think is a bad idea conceptually. Being able to replicate some spells (ex: acid splash, thaumaturgy) I don't think would fit the fluff, and replicating eldritch blast might become a problem when you can use both rays together. I would maybe grant only some cantrips, and use the opportunity to bring some of the other rays back into line power-wise (like the Charm ray merely casting Friends). For reference, cantrips that probably do work well with eye rays likely include chill touch, firebolt, lightning lure, poison spray, ray of frost, thorn whip, and viscous mockery.
    Banishment is a 4th level spell, so I was worrying if the Banishing Ray would be balanced or not. My logic was that it removes the target as a future target, so while they can't act, you also can't do anything to them. Similar logic applies to the sleep ray (they wake up if they take damage) and the pretrification ray (resistance to all damage). It's true that poisoned or frightened creatures can still act, but they can also be attacked. So I guess it's a question of how an effect that prevents you from acting but also removes you as a target compares to an effect that just makes you suck. I suppose it's also a matter of targeting; you banish the creature you're not attack, and poison the creature you are attacking. So it really is hard to gauge how balanced they are.

    You're probably right about the restrained condition. I patterned it off of the beholder's petrification ray (IIRC, similar petrification effects work the say way). However, I think in that case it works that way because the petrification is permanent, so it at least gives you a chance to do something before you fully petrify. With a temporary petrification, it should be fine to skip straight to being petrified. I do kind of want some kind of effect that can hold a creature in place for a short time (e.g. a minute), allowing you to do things without that creature bothering you. For example, you run into the chamberlain's room, petrify him, and then rifle through his desk looking for something. A single round is too short for that.

    I agree that certain cantrips don't make sense for a spell ray, but at the same time I didn't want to restrict it. Players can figure out a way to fluff the cantrip as being an eye ray. EB is the only one that I can see being a problem, but while picking two damaging spell rays might be the most damage-optimized, it seems like the least interesting option when you have so much cooler options that can't be gotten elsewhere.

    I also assume you're aiming for something comparable to a 1st or 2nd level spell with the main eye powers.
    • Assuring Cone: looks neat, as it functions as an AoE resistance it should be fine.
    • Blinding Cone: 1 minute long, repeated color spray with a 60 foot range is too strong. Yes, I know color spray is a weaker 1st level spell, but you're removing the factors that make it a weaker 1st level spell.
    • Distorting Cone: If this means you can be targeted with melee attacks that have a 5 foot reach, I think it's probably fine. What happens if someone attempts to walk through the cone, though? Do they just spend 10 feet of movement, exiting the cone in any place they like?
    • Gravity Cone: I like it. Would make a good 1st level spell.
    • Obscuring Cone: I'd like to check this means you have disadvantage on attacking a creature, but know which square to aim at. If so, seems fine.
    • Spell-Eating Cone: this makes me nervous. I see the lore reason for it, and it would be great for killing rival beholders. Maybe fine, but if you can get your AC and saves high enough you're unlikely to get hurt and therefore unlikely to need to make cons saves maintain concentration (which is otherwise the main thing keeping from being too strong).
    Something to note is that all cones affect friends and foe alike. So something like the blinding cone can backfire if you have too many allies and not enough enemies inside it. Not sure if that balances it out, but it's worth noting.

    For the distorting cone, even though you're not inside the cone, you are in an adjacent space. So anyone inside the cone would be able to make melee attacks against you. This might mean that, while you can allow your melee heavy hitters to attack the flying beholder, you're probably taking bite attacks from the beholder. If someone tried to pass through the cone, they spend whatever movement to get inside the cone, and then must pass an INT save or be stuck. If they pass, they can exit the cone to any adjacent space. So you could actually use it to traverse obstacles. Huh, I hadn't thought of using it like that, but I like it.

    For the obscuring cone, creatures inside the cone are "mostly" invisible, which is to say that you can't sneak the whole party past some guards, as the guards will see the shadowy wisps. They count as heavily obscured, not not "seen", meaning effects like eye rays that require the target to be seen can't be used. Basically, you use this to make your party untargetable by the beholder's eye rays. Unfortunately, the cone will never include you, so...

    For the spell-eating cone, yeah, a paladin could do very well with this. Strong AC, strong saves, it could be quite potent. Do keep in mind that, again, it works for both friend and foe, so allied casters will have trouble getting their own spells off without getting them caught in your cone. This might be an optimized choice for something like a paladin, but there's also plenty of reasons for such a character to choose a different cone, so I think it's fine. As the saying goes, if people always pick it, it's too strong, but if they never pick it, it's too weak. As long as neither of those are the case, it's at least somewhat balanced, even if it's not perfect.

    Anyway, thanks for the feedback on these abilities. I definitely need to put more thought into how these abilities work. It seems like perhaps the eye rays that prevent the creature from acting should be balanced with some sort of "if X, the effect ends". Or something similar.

    Quote Originally Posted by BerzerkerUnit View Post
    Ehhh, I took the pet description as being more representative of their creators being incarnate narcissism.
    Yes. For the beheld's perspective, it's more of a parent-child relationship, but from the beholder's perspective, it is a master-pet relationship. Some beholders might take good care of their beholden, and might even feel an ounce of genuine affection for them, but the majority of them won't hesitate to dispose of them if they become a problem. As I said, beholders are not very nice monsters. That said, with the sheer variety among beholders, it's not inconceivable that a good beholder might exist.

    Quote Originally Posted by Millstone85 View Post
    To match Greywander's description, we must also forgo cyclops.

    A beheld has two eyes, both on their face, just like a human would, except the beheld can shoot magic out of their eyes. A beheld also has an eye-like birthmark on their belly, from which they can produce a magic cone.

    In other words, the beheld is like a Kryptonian Care Bear, minus the bear. Gotta admit I never thought of that when imagining a humanoid beholder.
    This. It's basically maximum humanoid, minimum beholder. Kind of like humans with animal ears or tails vs. full on furries.

    I think I did at one point consider putting the central eye on the forehead. I might be thinking of a completely different homebrew, though. For such a distinctive mark, though, it makes sense to put it someplace you can keep out of sight.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roland St. Jude View Post
    Sheriff: Thread title changed to be less problematic. Feel free to change it to something else that captures your concept but not back to the original.
    Noted, I'll avoid using that word here.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Beholder kids (humanoid beholder race)

    As a concept a city of “lost children” could be cool. It’s actually not crazy to have children playing mommy and daddy and child, that’s default developmentally appropriate behavior. However, the real dysfunctional elements come from 2 other bits: these creatures retain child like capriciousness regardless of age, so a 35 year old Beholden is likely to tyrannically lord their greater knowledge over their children. Further, they will rapidly bore of assuming responsibility for their offspring. This will lead to half assed parenting at best, psychological scarring and murders more often.

    Maybe that’s the reason they adventure. Like cuckoo birds and Fey changelings, they send the young out to be raised by others and invite them back when they’re of age and have greater value to the community.

    The party arrives in a ramshackle town. Homes are dilapidated but some show an effort to keep belongings organized. Over the course of hours they discover what first appears to be makeshift family of orphans struggling to survive but ultimately turns out to be a monstrously whimsical totalitarian state ruled by King Kid.

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    Default Re: Beholder kids (humanoid beholder race)

    One thing I thought of since my last comment is that the beheld look cute to beholders. Cute as defined by beholders and cute as defined by humans don't need to have anything in common. So you could make the beheld grow from toddlers directly in little old ladies, with baggy skin and scaly patches. So instead of a 40-year old looking like a child, you'd have a 14-year old who looks eighty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Greywander View Post
    Banishment is a 4th level spell, so I was worrying if the Banishing Ray would be balanced or not. My logic was that it removes the target as a future target, so while they can't act, you also can't do anything to them.
    I think this would make a lot of sense for 3.5e, but 5e puts a lot of weight on action economy. Sleep, for instance, is likely weaker, because a second enemy can spend part of their actions to negate it, whereas a creature that's been banished is straight up out of the fight.

    Quote Originally Posted by Greywander View Post
    I do kind of want some kind of effect that can hold a creature in place for a short time (e.g. a minute), allowing you to do things without that creature bothering you. For example, you run into the chamberlain's room, petrify him, and then rifle through his desk looking for something. A single round is too short for that.
    I think the issue is that an effect this strong is a bit much for a cantrip equivalent.

    For a cantrip, you should either have to force a new save every turn (likely while an ally searches) or still mostly have to deal with the chamberlain. Perhaps an eye ray that reduces the target's speed to 0 would make sense?

    Quote Originally Posted by Greywander View Post
    For the obscuring cone, creatures inside the cone are "mostly" invisible, which is to say that you can't sneak the whole party past some guards, as the guards will see the shadowy wisps. They count as heavily obscured, not not "seen", meaning effects like eye rays that require the target to be seen can't be used.
    I would then explicitly say creatures within the cone do not count as seen for the purposes of targeting a creature, and that they are otherwise visible. Maybe with a remark that they're individual identities are also impossible to determine.

    otherwise, if something counts as heavily obscured, it inherently counts as not "seen:"
    Quote Originally Posted by Player's Handbook, page 183
    A heavily obscured area--such as darkness, opaque fog, or dense foliage--blocks vision entirely. A creature effectively suffers from the blinded condition when trying to see something in that area.

    Quote Originally Posted by Greywander View Post
    This. It's basically maximum humanoid, minimum beholder. Kind of like humans with animal ears or tails vs. full on furries.
    I accept I should have been clearer, but as usually an image representing a beheld should probably just directly be of a human, I intended to specifically address how to find images filling the design space between "beholder with torso" and "actually matches the beheld's description."

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    Default Re: Beholder kids (humanoid beholder race)

    Quote Originally Posted by Greywander View Post
    I did try to make it as G-rated as possible, and I think the result is actually kind of adorable.

    This might be something I revisit and modify, though.
    I agree that being created out of a shared romantic dream is much cuter than being created out of the random dream of a single individual. First-generation beholden might envy their descendants over this.

    But to make things really G-rated, I would remove the need for a partner.

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    Default Re: Beholder kids (humanoid beholder race)

    I suddenly remembered this weird comic character from ... the 90s, maybe?

    Eyeball Kid



    Definitely not a loli.

    Yeah, from the 90s: https://comicvine.gamespot.com/the-e...kid/4050-4867/

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