A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2
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    Default Re: Masters of the Universe: Revelation

    Finished watching the five episodes and I think this show was all right. I don't disagree with some of the issues people have with Teela (or Adam for that matter, ugh), but the rest of the cast seemed fine. Cringer talking threw me for a loop because I had forgotten he did in the original series (he didn't in the 2002 version). XD

    Spoiler: Some specific details on what I liked
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    I verily enjoyed the new character we have, Andra. She serves as the audience surrogate for plot explanation, but she shows off excellent skills with tech, getting some spotlight in the action sequences. She honestly could be the next Man-At-Arms if she wanted to be (and I hope she sticks around in the second half of the series).

    Triclops starting his techno-religion seemed on point for him, and the terrible puns in episode two were awesome. I would watch a post-He-Man series with him as the main bad. More generally, I dig the post-apocalypse science fantasy world of Eternia. I'd love to make this into a campaign setting. Dying magic and upstart technology movements? Sign me up.

    Evil-Lyn sharing a moment with Orko was kind of sweet. She also should go without her helmet more often cause... yeah. Yeah. :3

    Speaking of Orko-- give that fool the MVP award!! Hands down the real hero for this ride. No one else moved me to sniffles like his heroic sacrifice. I'd be okay if he stayed dead, because that was the most badass way to go out I've seen in a long time.
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  2. - Top - End - #122
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    Default Re: Masters of the Universe: Revelation

    Quote Originally Posted by Cikomyr2 View Post
    Then there's no metric you will accept to qualify it as a successful show.

    For the record I really loved the new She Ra show. It only got better with time, and season 5 was its best.
    A good indicator would be how much merchandise it sells.

    But in any case, all I meant is that getting new seasons and/or industry awards is sadly not necessarily an accurate sign of something success, quality or popularity.
    Last edited by Lemmy; 2021-07-28 at 09:29 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemmy View Post
    A good indicator would be how much merchandise it sells.
    Yes, I distinctly remember how many ER action figures and Law and Order Shirts I had when they were the most successful and popular shows on television.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lemmy View Post
    But in any case, all I meant is that getting new seasons and/or industry awards is sadly not necessarily an accurate sign of something being success, quality or popularity.
    That... That's literally the only accurate signs of a show being a success and popular. What is your definition of "success"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemmy View Post
    A good indicator would be how much merchandise it sells.

    But in any case, all I meant is that getting new seasons and/or industry awards is sadly not necessarily an accurate sign of something being success, quality or popularity.
    It's the best indicator we have unless you're secretly an industry insider.

    Merch sales mattered in the 1980s when these shows were 30-minute toy commercials, not for streaming services.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wintermoot View Post
    Yes, I distinctly remember how many ER action figures and Law and Order Shirts I had when they were the most successful and popular shows on television.

    That... That's literally the only accurate signs of a show being a success and popular. What is your definition of "success"?
    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    It's the best indicator we have unless you're secretly an industry insider.

    Merch sales mattered in the 1980s when these shows were 30-minute toy commercials, not for streaming services.
    Success would be achieving what it was meant to achieve... Which in the case of ER and L&O, would be selling ads on TV... In the case of both He-Man and She-ra, would attracting new subscribers to Netflix and selling merchandise for Mattel.
    Last edited by Lemmy; 2021-07-28 at 09:39 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
    I've seen the projects Sorbo has had a hand in producing. I'm not sure where the faith in him comes from. Sidestepping his not-safe-for-board-discussion recent career, Andromeda was ****ing atrocious.
    I liked andromeda, it fell apart later on, but its start was pretty cool and I loved the concept of basically, the united federation of planets fell apart, its up to the last captain of the federation to try and rebuild from the ashes with his powerful ship that cant fight the galaxy on its own. And too be fair, it was out during some of those strange series were getting out like Cleopatra 2525 and Jack of All Trades so it really didnt have a lot of competition.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    I liked andromeda, it fell apart later on, but its start was pretty cool and I loved the concept of basically, the united federation of planets fell apart, its up to the last captain of the federation to try and rebuild from the ashes with his powerful ship that cant fight the galaxy on its own. And too be fair, it was out during some of those strange series were getting out like Cleopatra 2525 and Jack of All Trades so it really didnt have a lot of competition.
    The quality of Andromeda was inversely proportional to the amout of control Kevin Sorbo's ego had over it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemmy
    Success would be achieving what it was meant to achieve... Which in the case of ER and L&O, would be selling ads on TV... In the case of both He-Man and She-ra, would still be selling merchandise.
    I wasn't aware you were a Netflix executive and were in charge of defining success for their internal shows*....

    I am, however, aware that you ideologically require certain things to have "failed" in the face of absolutely any disconfirming evidence.



    * As far as anyone outside of that group can tell, "acquiring and retaining Netflix subscribers" is the metric they care about.

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    Default Re: Masters of the Universe: Revelation

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    I liked andromeda, it fell apart later on, but its start was pretty cool and I loved the concept of basically, the united federation of planets fell apart, its up to the last captain of the federation to try and rebuild from the ashes with his powerful ship that cant fight the galaxy on its own. And too be fair, it was out during some of those strange series were getting out like Cleopatra 2525 and Jack of All Trades so it really didnt have a lot of competition.
    Yeah, Andromeda's precise was amazing idea.

    Yes, I loved Jack of All Trades.

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    Default Re: Masters of the Universe: Revelation

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    Spoiler
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    You have watched both versions of Justice League?
    I found Snyder had a LOT more respect for the characters involved than the first guy. Weedon i think?
    Just for a start he didnt make the Flash comedy relief.
    Else well. Initially killing off Superman were part of the Doomsday Saga.
    I did, and I didn't meant the specific movie but rather the entire setup of that movie.

    Let's be honest. The entire end point of BvS was always going to be "Superman is dead, thus triggering the events of the Justice League".

    This was decided way before Whedon did whatever he did to the movie. There was never going to be a version of Justice League starting with Superman not dead, as this was the entire premise around which the saga was intended to revolve around. So yes, the similarities are there. It's a creator getting rid of an overpowered hero character so the supporting cast has to come together.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GloatingSwine View Post
    I wasn't aware you were a Netflix executive and were in charge of defining success for their internal shows*....

    I am, however, aware that you ideologically require certain things to have "failed" in the face of absolutely any disconfirming evidence.
    This.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cikomyr2 View Post
    It's a creator getting rid of an overpowered hero character so the supporting cast has to come together.
    Also this. Because "will He-Man unite the heroes and win" is just not an interesting question. Smith recognized that and rightly went in a different direction.

    Now, I will acknowledge that the show's branding and marketing could have conveyed a different picture of He-Man's involvement than we got, so I can get where some of the disappointment is coming from. But taking the first sentence into account, I'm willing to forgive it because this is the most logical way for the show to have started off.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    Default Re: Masters of the Universe: Revelation

    My responses to Psyren in the spoilers below.

    Spoiler: Teelah
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren
    I would be mad too in her shoes. She put her life on the line against Skeletor every bit as much as Orko, MAA and Cringer if not more. What was the point of keeping it secret? They can dress it up in flowery language like "he trusted you with Eternia!" all they like, but the fact is that there was no truly good reason to treat her like a second-class companion and keep her in the dark all those years.
    Maybe Adam will explain his reasoning, but I don't think it is because he thought she was "unworthy" as you're implying here.

    Bear in mind that Adam hid the secret from his own mother and father as well (though his mother had her suspicions). Cringer is going to know because Cringer also transforms. Orko and MAA, as mentors/protectors of Prince Adam might have held a privileged position in knowing. Adam likely saw Teela as a peer, rather than someone that is teaching him/looking over him, and so he didn't tell her.

    This is all ignoring the fact that there is nothing wrong with Teela being angry and hurt over the secret. But these are not mutually exclusive to being sad and honoring the person. Teela's portrayal here is bad because she doesn't have redeeming qualities. Her anger is not mixed with grief, and her desire to stick it to everyone is not in conflict with her bonds of daughterhood, duty, friendship, etc. She is just angry and abandoning everyone, full stop.
    The real reason is that Adam was selfish and afraid, and he needs to admit that.
    I never rewatched the series after childhood so maybe this is explained somewhere and I've forgotten but... what makes you think this is the "real" reason?

    This is part of that subversion thing, where the person that unflinchingly sacrifices their life for the fate of the universe is "selfish and afraid", while the petulant self-absorbed woman-child throwing a tantrum is justified in her attitude and behavior.
    Oh look, a character flaw, how awful.
    If you're not willing to accept that Teela is acting pretty poorly here and perhaps has some serious... flaws, I'm not sure you're ready to discuss any flaws that Adam might have. If we include Adam's "selfishness" next to Teela's on the same scale, Adam doesn't even register.

    Look, the fantasy of He-Man is to have the power to be a good person. It's to want to do good and be brave, to defend yourself and protect your friends and family and fight the forces of evil. You want power to be able to do that, and the point of the power is to do those things. They are intertwined. And when you do those things, you gain the respect and adoration of those around you.

    The fantasy of Teela is to have people defer to you and adore you no matter what you do. It's to be glorified but not only that, to be glorified and to have the freedom to do whatever you want. The fantasy of Teela, as presented here, is to not have duty or responsibility, to hold others accountable, but not yourself, and to be loved for it nevertheless. Teela doesn't care about anyone but herself. She cannot even be bothered to save the universe. She doesn't care about the fate of the universe. It means nothing to her when weighed against Adam's secret-keeping, and it means nothing to her when the quest-giver is telling her magic is dying and taking Eternia with it. Teela does not feel a duty or loyalty to anyone, but has people fawning over her anyways.

    This is a bad hero and a bad character. Maybe she gets corrected in the episodes to come but she's pretty far from the mark to begin with.
    And he'll get his chance to apologize and for them to move past it eventually, but that will happen when Teelah is ready, not when Adam and Orko want her to get over it.
    And Adam likely will apologize, because he is the hero in this story. He is the ideal. I really have to credit the show here with Adam's portrayal in Preternia. He already gave his life for Eternia and earned Paradise, but all the while that his friends are there he is wondering if everything is okay, is something wrong. We saved Eternia, didn't we? And when he finds out they didn't, he sacrifices Paradise to help his friends and make things right again.

    This is a hero. Teela, as presented thus far, is so far from this it's painful. That she might learn these values in the span of a few episodes would be ridiculous but I've got my fingers crossed.


    Spoiler: Evil-Lynn
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren
    I think you're way off base with her character; she's not turning good at all. She flat out says that she regretted devoted her life to Skeletor when she could have been a Master of the Universe herself. Yeah she's willing to team up with the Scooby Gang but that is purely an alliance of convenience - without Eternia's magic, she's useless and she knows it. I don't know whether she aspires to conquering the entire planet the way Skelly did, but carving out a nice slice of it she can rule over with an enchanted iron fist like Triklops did with his techno-utopia is right up her alley.
    I am not so sure, but am open to the possibility that you are right here. I don't think that we needed all of this exposure to Evil-Lyn if the end game is that she's carving out another domain like Triklops, after all, the show just handed us Triklops with very little explanation. The show seems to want us to believe that Skeletor misguided her down a path she might not have taken, even is she is trying to be a Master of the Universe. Her relationship with Orko I think is meant to show that she has goodness in her and that this is coming out in the absence of Skeletor.

    Either way, I don't like the amount of time devoted to fleshing out a villain when the choice was made to sideline the hero in his own show. But maybe this is all just a setup for season 2 and we'll get more of what we want there.

  12. - Top - End - #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    Now, I will acknowledge that the show's branding and marketing could have conveyed a different picture of He-Man's involvement than we got, so I can get where some of the disappointment is coming from. But taking the first sentence into account, I'm willing to forgive it because this is the most logical way for the show to have started off.
    Something important to realise when you talk about "the show" is that this wasn't "the show". This was the introduction to the show. This was the inciting incident and the stakes getting established.

    It's the same format as they used for Castlevania, which has a 4 episode first part that starts with Trevor, Sypha, and Alucard having met but not actually advancing the "Dracula wants to end the world" plot much at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Samurai View Post
    My responses to Psyren in the spoilers below.

    Spoiler: Teelah
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    Maybe Adam will explain his reasoning, but I don't think it is because he thought she was "unworthy" as you're implying here.

    Bear in mind that Adam hid the secret from his own mother and father as well (though his mother had her suspicions). Cringer is going to know because Cringer also transforms. Orko and MAA, as mentors/protectors of Prince Adam might have held a privileged position in knowing. Adam likely saw Teela as a peer, rather than someone that is teaching him/looking over him, and so he didn't tell her.

    This is all ignoring the fact that there is nothing wrong with Teela being angry and hurt over the secret. But these are not mutually exclusive to being sad and honoring the person. Teela's portrayal here is bad because she doesn't have redeeming qualities. Her anger is not mixed with grief, and her desire to stick it to everyone is not in conflict with her bonds of daughterhood, duty, friendship, etc. She is just angry and abandoning everyone, full stop.

    I never rewatched the series after childhood so maybe this is explained somewhere and I've forgotten but... what makes you think this is the "real" reason?

    This is part of that subversion thing, where the person that unflinchingly sacrifices their life for the fate of the universe is "selfish and afraid", while the petulant self-absorbed woman-child throwing a tantrum is justified in her attitude and behavior.

    If you're not willing to accept that Teela is acting pretty poorly here and perhaps has some serious... flaws, I'm not sure you're ready to discuss any flaws that Adam might have. If we include Adam's "selfishness" next to Teela's on the same scale, Adam doesn't even register.

    Look, the fantasy of He-Man is to have the power to be a good person. It's to want to do good and be brave, to defend yourself and protect your friends and family and fight the forces of evil. You want power to be able to do that, and the point of the power is to do those things. They are intertwined. And when you do those things, you gain the respect and adoration of those around you.

    The fantasy of Teela is to have people defer to you and adore you no matter what you do. It's to be glorified but not only that, to be glorified and to have the freedom to do whatever you want. The fantasy of Teela, as presented here, is to not have duty or responsibility, to hold others accountable, but not yourself, and to be loved for it nevertheless. Teela doesn't care about anyone but herself. She cannot even be bothered to save the universe. She doesn't care about the fate of the universe. It means nothing to her when weighed against Adam's secret-keeping, and it means nothing to her when the quest-giver is telling her magic is dying and taking Eternia with it. Teela does not feel a duty or loyalty to anyone, but has people fawning over her anyways.

    This is a bad hero and a bad character. Maybe she gets corrected in the episodes to come but she's pretty far from the mark to begin with.

    And Adam likely will apologize, because he is the hero in this story. He is the ideal. I really have to credit the show here with Adam's portrayal in Preternia. He already gave his life for Eternia and earned Paradise, but all the while that his friends are there he is wondering if everything is okay, is something wrong. We saved Eternia, didn't we? And when he finds out they didn't, he sacrifices Paradise to help his friends and make things right again.

    This is a hero. Teela, as presented thus far, is so far from this it's painful. That she might learn these values in the span of a few episodes would be ridiculous but I've got my fingers crossed.
    I didn't say anything about him thinking she was unworthy.
    Spoiler
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    Rather, he was trying to have his cake and eat it too - he didn't want their friendship to change, much as Clark wants Lois to see him as Clark. But the comparison ends there because Teelah isn't Lois Lane, she can (and has) fought evil routinely and can take care of herself. This betrayal was compounded by the fact that he got her own father to be complicit in it, fettering him against his own flesh and blood by royal decree.

    And by the way, Queen Marlena did know his secret. Randor and Teelah were the only ones who didn't. Hiding it from Randor makes sense - the king would endanger all of Eternia to keep his son safe - but not Teelah who was there with him on the front lines most of the time.

    I don't know where you got the idea that I think Teelah has no flaws either - I never said that.


    Quote Originally Posted by GloatingSwine View Post
    Something important to realise when you talk about "the show" is that this wasn't "the show". This was the introduction to the show. This was the inciting incident and the stakes getting established.

    It's the same format as they used for Castlevania, which has a 4 episode first part that starts with Trevor, Sypha, and Alucard having met but not actually advancing the "Dracula wants to end the world" plot much at all.
    Totally agreed, but you have to admit - introducing a Belmont and tracking down Alucard certainly makes this a "Castlevania" show, even if Dracula himself is nowhere to be seen right away.
    Last edited by Psyren; 2021-07-28 at 10:58 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    I liked andromeda, it fell apart later on, but its start was pretty cool and I loved the concept of basically, the united federation of planets fell apart, its up to the last captain of the federation to try and rebuild from the ashes with his powerful ship that cant fight the galaxy on its own. And too be fair, it was out during some of those strange series were getting out like Cleopatra 2525 and Jack of All Trades so it really didnt have a lot of competition.
    Quote Originally Posted by Starbuck_II View Post
    Yeah, Andromeda's pre[m]ise was amazing idea.
    Yes, I loved Jack of All Trades.
    Quote Originally Posted by GloatingSwine View Post
    The quality of Andromeda was inversely proportional to the amout of control Kevin Sorbo's ego had over it.
    The premise of the show worked fine. Whomever they brought in to hammer Roddenberry's notepads together into a show treatment did a bang-up job. Honestly, a lot of those syndicated action/sci-fi series of that era had really good premises (in particular I think Total Recall 2070, Beastmaster, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's Lost World, and the other Roddenberry product, Earth: Final Conflict, all had the potential to be great). The show suffered from inconsistent writing (force fields working differently depending on who wrote today's cript), cast churn (Keith Hamilton Cobb who played most interesting character of the crew Tyr Anasazi leaving, Brent Stait developing a latex allergy which kept him from playing Rev Bem), theoretically interesting characters who never ended up doing anything (everyman Seamus Harper) or (for Trance Gemini) just acted as exposition fonts for the bizarre character-predestination arc which made hash of the initial premise, and of course Sorbo pushing out Robert Hewitt Wolfe as executive producer. However, even without those major issues (this is decidedly personal opinion, so 'IMO'), the series suffered because Sorbo's Captain Hunt never worked as a central protagonist. I'm sure someone saw his 'aren't I just awesome?' mugging on Hercules and thought, 'That reminds me a lot of Shatner's Kirk, I bet it would work for this alternate Kirk we're making for this new Roddenberry show.' It just wasn't. Kirk wasn't actually played that way, that's just the overlay we see when we watch now because we know about Shatner's foibles. But Kirk worked when the show originally aired, before that was all known. It's also not clear that either Sorbo or the showrunners were in on the joke. If Sorbo had spent his post-Hercules years trying to do what Adam West and David Hasselhoff have done with themselves, he'd probably have more success.

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    Default Re: Masters of the Universe: Revelation

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    Also this. Because "will He-Man unite the heroes and win" is just not an interesting question. Smith recognized that and rightly went in a different direction.
    Sure it is, itís just harder to write well. After seeing this though Iím thinking it was probably beyond Smithís ability to deliver on.

    Quote Originally Posted by GloatingSwine View Post
    Something important to realise when you talk about "the show" is that this wasn't "the show". This was the introduction to the show. This was the inciting incident and the stakes getting established.

    It's the same format as they used for Castlevania, which has a 4 episode first part that starts with Trevor, Sypha, and Alucard having met but not actually advancing the "Dracula wants to end the world" plot much at all.
    Castlevania also was kind of awful as an adaptation of its material, with he author rewriting whole swaths of character backstory to fit his ideological hang ups and cutting whole main characters from the story he was adapting. Aside from some of the character names very little made it in.
    Last edited by Dragonus45; 2021-07-28 at 11:24 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    I didn't say anything about him thinking she was unworthy.
    Spoiler
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    And by the way, Queen Marlena did know his secret.
    Unless I'm forgetting something, she
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    figured it out by herself.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Samurai View Post
    Orko and MAA, as mentors/protectors of Prince Adam might have held a privileged position in knowing. Adam likely saw Teela as a peer, rather than someone that is teaching him/looking over him, and so he didn't tell her.
    Wasn't it that (at least in one of the versions) MAA knew because the Sorceress trusted him and he was the one to bring Adam to Greyskull and her? And IIRC Orko happened to learn about it on accident (again, at least in one version of the story), and was sworn to keep it a secret?
    Quote Originally Posted by Pickford View Post
    I don't understand your point. Why does it matter what I said?

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    Quote Originally Posted by GloatingSwine View Post
    I wasn't aware you were a Netflix executive and were in charge of defining success for their internal shows*....

    I am, however, aware that you ideologically require certain things to have "failed" in the face of absolutely any disconfirming evidence.

    * As far as anyone outside of that group can tell, "acquiring and retaining Netflix subscribers" is the metric they care about.
    I don't "ideologically require" anything to fail... I didn't even say anything failed or succeeded.

    I said success, for a Netflix show of a Mattel property, is measured by attracting new subscribers to Netflix and selling Mattel merchandise...

    I don't see how being a Netflix executive is necessary to state that... Seems rather obvious. I highly doubt either Netflix or Mattel produce anything out of the goodness of their heart.

    If She-ra or He-man got enough people to subscribe to Netflix and/or buy merchandise, them they were successful, if not... They weren't. What I or anyone else think about either show doesn't change that.

    EDIT: Ah, it seems you quoted my post before I edited it to include "attracting subscribers to Netflix"
    Last edited by Lemmy; 2021-07-28 at 11:36 AM.
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    Yes, I'm sure your quibbling over what counts as success for the last few pages is purely from a standpoint of technical pedantry....

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    Default Re: Masters of the Universe: Revelation

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Samurai View Post
    My responses to Psyren in the spoilers below.

    Spoiler: Teelah
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    Maybe Adam will explain his reasoning, but I don't think it is because he thought she was "unworthy" as you're implying here.

    Bear in mind that Adam hid the secret from his own mother and father as well (though his mother had her suspicions). Cringer is going to know because Cringer also transforms. Orko and MAA, as mentors/protectors of Prince Adam might have held a privileged position in knowing. Adam likely saw Teela as a peer, rather than someone that is teaching him/looking over him, and so he didn't tell her.

    This is all ignoring the fact that there is nothing wrong with Teela being angry and hurt over the secret. But these are not mutually exclusive to being sad and honoring the person. Teela's portrayal here is bad because she doesn't have redeeming qualities. Her anger is not mixed with grief, and her desire to stick it to everyone is not in conflict with her bonds of daughterhood, duty, friendship, etc. She is just angry and abandoning everyone, full stop.

    I never rewatched the series after childhood so maybe this is explained somewhere and I've forgotten but... what makes you think this is the "real" reason?

    This is part of that subversion thing, where the person that unflinchingly sacrifices their life for the fate of the universe is "selfish and afraid", while the petulant self-absorbed woman-child throwing a tantrum is justified in her attitude and behavior.

    If you're not willing to accept that Teela is acting pretty poorly here and perhaps has some serious... flaws, I'm not sure you're ready to discuss any flaws that Adam might have. If we include Adam's "selfishness" next to Teela's on the same scale, Adam doesn't even register.

    Look, the fantasy of He-Man is to have the power to be a good person. It's to want to do good and be brave, to defend yourself and protect your friends and family and fight the forces of evil. You want power to be able to do that, and the point of the power is to do those things. They are intertwined. And when you do those things, you gain the respect and adoration of those around you.

    The fantasy of Teela is to have people defer to you and adore you no matter what you do. It's to be glorified but not only that, to be glorified and to have the freedom to do whatever you want. The fantasy of Teela, as presented here, is to not have duty or responsibility, to hold others accountable, but not yourself, and to be loved for it nevertheless. Teela doesn't care about anyone but herself. She cannot even be bothered to save the universe. She doesn't care about the fate of the universe. It means nothing to her when weighed against Adam's secret-keeping, and it means nothing to her when the quest-giver is telling her magic is dying and taking Eternia with it. Teela does not feel a duty or loyalty to anyone, but has people fawning over her anyways.

    This is a bad hero and a bad character. Maybe she gets corrected in the episodes to come but she's pretty far from the mark to begin with.

    And Adam likely will apologize, because he is the hero in this story. He is the ideal. I really have to credit the show here with Adam's portrayal in Preternia. He already gave his life for Eternia and earned Paradise, but all the while that his friends are there he is wondering if everything is okay, is something wrong. We saved Eternia, didn't we? And when he finds out they didn't, he sacrifices Paradise to help his friends and make things right again.

    This is a hero. Teela, as presented thus far, is so far from this it's painful. That she might learn these values in the span of a few episodes would be ridiculous but I've got my fingers crossed.


    Wait, but
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    Didn't Adam die for real, how can he apologize now that he is completely dead again?
    He was told he gets no reward if he returned to life the first time.
    So, he can't apologize anymore than he did.

    I mean, they already showed how hard getting revivals were the first time. And that was by accident (they just wanted the sword).

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    Default Re: Masters of the Universe: Revelation

    Quote Originally Posted by Starbuck_II View Post
    Wait, but
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    Didn't Adam die for real, how can he apologize now that he is completely dead again?
    He was told he gets no reward if he returned to life the first time.
    So, he can't apologize anymore than he did.

    I mean, they already showed how hard getting revivals were the first time. And that was by accident (they just wanted the sword).
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    He got stabbed, but magic's back now so the chances of him being anything more than mostly dead are pretty much nil.

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    This thread has made me nostalgic for simpler times.

    I went back and looked to see what MOTU toys I had from being a kid. Had more than I thought.

    battle armor he-man and road ripper

    The battle armor was a cylinder in the chest armor. If you tapped it, it flipped to one dent, then if you tapped it again, it went to two dents. Then you had to roll it back up to undamaged. To my 11 year old self, this was very cool.

    Road Ripper was a fun little vehicle with a ripcode that you could pull and the bike would roll forward like 10 feet or so. Again, toys with actions were awesome.

    buzz off

    Heroic Bee Warrior. Had two plastic wings that snapped off a hook on the back. I lost one early on, so it was more like a wing cape, than wings.

    castle grayskull

    Fairly large play set, with a trap door, a cage on a hook and some other stuff that I barely remember. Boy's doll house.

    clawful

    Articulated Giant Claw hand and lobster head bad guy.

    fisto

    The heroic equivalent of Clawful. Sadly the fist wasn't articulated, but if you twisted his waist, it would go up and down like a piston which was fun.

    kobra khan

    Snake man figure that was a water gun. you took the head off, put a tiny bit of water in the chest, and then you could press down on the head to let out a spray of water. Man, the little bits of articulation on these were really fun.

    mekaneck

    If you twisted the waist, the head went up and down on a mechanical neck..

    modulok

    A she-ra toy that was like two torsos, ten limbs, two heads and a few other components you could mix and match to make different forms. Probably lost half the pieces in the first year I owned it.

    ram man

    And interesting toy because if wasn't built of the same mold as all the others. It was a plastic body on spring legs. you could push the body down to lock the legs, then use a switch on the back to make him RAM his head into things.

    roton

    The BEST vehicle. A black circle with a rotating red chainsaw around the middle. As you pushed it on the ground, the chainsaw spun around. VERY fun.

    Skeletor

    Not much to say about this figure other than the havok staff is my favorite accessory aesthetic wise. Had a rubber vest you could take off.

    snout spout

    Mechanical elephant head on an orange body. Like Kobra Khan, I think you could put water inside and make it squirt out. But I could be misrembering that.

    spikor

    Spiky torso and a trident hand that would extend and contract when you turned the waist.

    stratos

    Bird man with a chinbeard and rubber arm wings. Again, pretty basic figure.

    sy-klone

    Weird Blue and Yellow tornado guy. You used a thumb spinner on the bad of the belt to make the torso spin around super fast. Had a shield that spun too.

    trap jaw

    My favorite bad guy. Had three different arms you could trade out. A laser gun, a hook and a Claw like a construction crane. Also had a jaw that could open and close.

    two bad

    Best part about this toy is, if you turned the waist, because of where the arms were, he would hit himself in his two faces.

    webstor

    Another favorite toy, it came with a grapple hook on a long string that hooked to his torso armor so you could pull it up and down it.

    whiplash

    I remember this toy was really rare where I lived and I found one and had to give it to a friend as a birthday present. Then I found another one a few weeks later, so all was good.

    Glitter

    A she-ra character. i don't really know why I had this. I think I got it as a stocking stuffer from some confused parents. I don't think it had any cool articulation.

    ***

    What toys did you have, which were your favorites?
    Last edited by Wintermoot; 2021-07-28 at 01:04 PM.

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    Default Re: Masters of the Universe: Revelation

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemmy View Post
    I highly doubt either Netflix or Mattel produce anything out of the goodness of their heart.
    Right, they do it to make money and get awards, and they produced the whole thing along with garnering several awards for their original content. So you agree it succeeded then?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonus45 View Post
    Castlevania also was kind of awful as an adaptation of its material, with he author rewriting whole swaths of character backstory to fit his ideological hang ups and cutting whole main characters from the story he was adapting. Aside from some of the character names very little made it in.
    As an adaptation Castlevania was a resounding success. (There's that word again.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonus45 View Post
    Sure it is, itís just harder to write well. After seeing this though Iím thinking it was probably beyond Smithís ability to deliver on.
    Why should he be judged based on what you wanted him to deliver? Or care in the slightest?
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    Default Re: Masters of the Universe: Revelation

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    Right, they do it to make money and get awards, and they produced the whole thing along with garnering several awards for their original content. So you agree it succeeded then?
    Depends on what you may call a "success". The term "Phyrric victory" exists for a reason.
    Thanks to linklele for the amazing avvy.
    Quote Originally Posted by jidasfire View Post
    On a long enough scale, every OOTS forum discussion turns into a debate about alignment, Miko, or Familicide.
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    Default Re: Masters of the Universe: Revelation

    Quote Originally Posted by GloatingSwine View Post
    Yes, I'm sure your quibbling over what counts as success for the last few pages is purely from a standpoint of technical pedantry....
    It's an internet forum.... What did you expect?

    Also... Does that mean you "ideologically require" certain properties to succeed or fail? Or does that logic not apply to yourself?

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    Right, they do it to make money and get awards, and they produced the whole thing along with garnering several awards for their original content. So you agree it succeeded then?
    Did they actually make money out of it? If so, they did succeed... If not, they didn't.

    Whether I like something or not doesn't have any bearing on whether or not I consider it to be successful.

    James Cameron's Avatar was a really boring movie, IMHO... But it was definitely successful.

    I wouldn't say winning awards is a goal... Awards are just publicity, not a goal. This goes for basically every industry award, Emmy, Oscar, Grammy, video game awards. All of them are full of winners that aren't particularly good or popular... Because these awards are about politics and marketing. Nothing else.
    Last edited by Lemmy; 2021-07-28 at 01:37 PM.
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    Edited to add Spoilers!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    I didn't say anything about him thinking she was unworthy.
    You said: She put her life on the line against Skeletor every bit as much as Orko, MAA and Cringer if not more. What was the point of keeping it secret?

    This implies that the metric Adam used to determine who to tell is how vested they were in fighting evil and so, ipso facto, if Adam didn't tell Teela, it's because she didn't prove herself worthy enough of the secret. I don't think this presumption on your part is accurate or really supported by anything.
    Rather, he was trying to have his cake and eat it too - he didn't want their friendship to change, much as Clark wants Lois to see him as Clark. But the comparison ends there because Teelah isn't Lois Lane, she can (and has) fought evil routinely and can take care of herself. This betrayal was compounded by the fact that he got her own father to be complicit in it, fettering him against his own flesh and blood by royal decree.
    I like how you are now foisting MAA's choice to keep the secret onto Adam's shoulders as well to attempt to make him look worse. MAA has agency and made a choice, the same way he chose to defy his orders and reforge the sword (though Teela stopped that) and return to Castle Grayskull.

    But again... we are getting ahead of ourselves here. It's fine for Teela to be upset. It's not fine for her to nuke every relationship and hold a grudge for years and be totally unmoved by seeing her father again, or Adam again, or learning that Eternia is dying. And there is no reason to think that Adam's decision to not tell Teela is as awful as you are depicting.
    And by the way, Queen Marlena did know his secret.
    She always suspected, but Adam didn't tell her.
    Randor and Teelah were the only ones who didn't. Hiding it from Randor makes sense - the king would endanger all of Eternia to keep his son safe - but not Teelah who was there with him on the front lines most of the time.
    Do you know why MAA and Orko know the secret and Teela doesn't? Because I feel like you're making assumptions here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Divayth Fyr
    Wasn't it that (at least in one of the versions) MAA knew because the Sorceress trusted him and he was the one to bring Adam to Greyskull and her? And IIRC Orko happened to learn about it on accident (again, at least in one version of the story), and was sworn to keep it a secret?
    Excellent question. I will have to do some digging as I don't recall.
    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren
    Why should he be judged based on what you wanted him to deliver? Or care in the slightest?
    Ah yes, how dare Dragonus comment with his opinion on a writer's writing ability? Why should a business give one flying F about what the consumer thinks, if it is anything other than praise and adoration? Sounds like a certain character in a certain show lol.
    Last edited by Dr.Samurai; 2021-07-28 at 01:35 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemmy View Post
    Did they actually make money out of it? If so, they did succeed... If not, they didn't.
    We have no way of knowing, because Netflix doesn't post any kind of data we can use to determine that. However, they made quite a few seasons of it, and while you claim that "netflix gives everything 2-3 seasons" that's demonstrably false. Here, I'll demonstrate it.

    https://www.insider.com/shows-netfli...ter-one-season

    They seem to think that its helping them retain and gain subscribers.

    I don't currently have a netflix subscription because I gave it up to spend the money on other services because netflix wasn't creating as much content I was interested in as some others were. Eventually, once I've consumed the content I want on the others, and I have a list of a few things I want to see on netflix, I'll switch back. But i'm not being a viewer netflix cares about by doing that. They want the subscriber who doesn't go away even when pickings are sparse. So they produce a lot of different content to try and keep them around 365.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lemmy View Post
    Whether I like something or not doesn't have any bearing on whether or not I consider it to be successful.
    As an outside observer, whether or not you like something seems to be the PRIMARY driver on whether you call is successful or not. But that's just a perspective from viewing your posts, I obviously can't read your mind. But no matter how many metrics or evidence you are presented to prove something you don't like was successful, you always dismiss and change goal posts to maintain your stance that it's not successful.


    Personally, i think there would be a lot less argument on this board if people would just say "I personally don't like this" instead of "this is objectively bad" or "everyone hates this." But that's probably not going to happen.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lemmy View Post
    I wouldn't say winning awards is a goal... Awards are just publicity, not a goal. This goes for basically every industry award, Emmy, Oscar, Grammy, video game awards. All of them are full of winners that aren't particularly good or popular... Because these awards are about politics and marketing. Nothing else.
    This is absolutely not true. Especially of Netflix that has gone to extreme lengths to make sure they get included and earn as many industry awards as possible because they believe the awards, and publicity, lead to more subscribers as well as legitimizing them as a media studio. So awards is ABSOLUTELY a goal for them.
    Last edited by Wintermoot; 2021-07-28 at 02:01 PM.

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    Default Re: Masters of the Universe: Revelation

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemmy View Post
    Did they actually make money out of it?
    You keep asking this question, and the only way to measure it from the outside is the fact that they kept greenlighting more seasons. This is Netflix we're talking about, they're not shy about cancelling stuff abruptly. They didn't do that here, so it must have been making enough money. QED.

    The one measure we DO have is that it was in their Top Trending list.
    Last edited by Psyren; 2021-07-28 at 01:57 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    Default Re: Masters of the Universe: Revelation

    Question about Orko and the last episode or 2

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    He died, and they had a sentimental funeral in heaven, with Moss Man helping cultivate it.

    But... like, shouldn't Orko have materialized in Heaven after he died? Moss Man did, so we know it's not just Champions of Greyskull.

    Is it because he died in Hell and thus is trapped there?
    All in all it was a touching scene and a well-done sacrifice, but just seemed odd he didn't show up. (I started this post before I considered dying in Hell might trap you there.)

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    Default Re: Masters of the Universe: Revelation

    You're probably wondering why he's in Hell after he pulled a heroic sacrifice.

    ... Orko liked little boys.
    Last edited by Giggling Ghast; 2021-07-28 at 02:31 PM.
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    Default Re: Masters of the Universe: Revelation

    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
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    Is it because he died in Hell and thus is trapped there?
    All in all it was a touching scene and a well-done sacrifice, but just seemed odd he didn't show up. (I started this post before I considered dying in Hell might trap you there.)
    We... don't really know.

    But note
    Spoiler
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    that the spell Orko cast sounded like a banishing one, so it is possible he lives, but was merely sent wherever Scare Glow went.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pickford View Post
    I don't understand your point. Why does it matter what I said?

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