A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2
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  1. - Top - End - #241
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    Default Re: Masters of the Universe: Revelation

    Well. The evidence certainly does seem rather overwhelming that the fans on average think its either flaming garbage or at the very best just forgetable meh.
    I mean. If the fanbase were 50/50 split we would see an average score around 5 or so. But we dont. We see something thats horribly low.

    And the same with in here. The defenders of the show and of Kevin Smith is pretty soundly outnumbered.

    Like. Well fair. It can be the show is in reality just meh. But this seems like a PR textbook on what not to do.
    Unless of course you want to generate a lot of noise.

    All the same. I am curious about how long this will follow Kevin Smiths reputation.
    Cant see any fans trusting his word anytime soon.
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    Default Re: Masters of the Universe: Revelation

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    Well. The evidence certainly does seem rather overwhelming that the fans on average think its either flaming garbage or at the very best just forgetable meh.
    I mean. If the fanbase were 50/50 split we would see an average score around 5 or so. But we dont. We see something thats horribly low.

    And the same with in here. The defenders of the show and of Kevin Smith is pretty soundly outnumbered.

    Like. Well fair. It can be the show is in reality just meh. But this seems like a PR textbook on what not to do.
    Unless of course you want to generate a lot of noise.

    All the same. I am curious about how long this will follow Kevin Smiths reputation.
    Cant see any fans trusting his word anytime soon.
    It is sad because they have good voice actors.
    But the script writer
    Spoiler
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    wanted Adam dying multiple times.
    I mean, the first time was fine. Then they reunited, and it seemed okay, he will have to regain his powers and lost his afterlife reward but sacrifice is heroic.
    Then that Ending, dies again.


    Now, I do wonder if originally Kevin actually wanted a mature He-Man (but actual He-Man but Teela's Adventures) but his sponsors or whatever forced these "terrible" (in my opinion) changes that ruined it for me.
    But he was under contract so had to pretend it was the old vision.

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    Default Re: Masters of the Universe: Revelation

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    There's no way I'm replying to every single word in a discussion with this many participants, especially when so many of the underlying points are just getting repeated. All I can do is attempt to highlight the ones that I feel either best summarize themes I'm seeing or that most relate to points I made previously.

    I definitely don't like posts (especially my own) that consist of reams and reams of quote streams replying to 5+ different people.
    Its hard to understand your position when you dont answer most points given.

    That movie was called Terminator. Titans was not called Batman and the Titans, and Supergirl was not called Superman and Supergirl.

    MOTU is not called He-Man. Would I have been upset if He-Man played a greater role this season, no, but making Teelah the main character was a good move imo.
    Or the show could have been called Teela since you know everything revolves around her.

    I definitely haven't seen anyone calling it a 10/10, even here. I certainly I'm not, nor even 9.

    And that is ultimately the biggest problem with review-bombing; to counter such a campaign, supporters of the show - or even just folks who simply think it's fine/slightly above average - rating it where they honestly believe it to fall in the 6-8 range, will get averaged out with the folks who have an axe to grind and it will end up being rated very badly (just like it is now.) Nuanced discussion is almost impossible when there are a bunch of 1/10 flying around due to anger and completely ignoring any technical competency of the show in question.
    i am sorry to be the bearer of bad news but on review sites like rotten tomatoes, I dont even have to search to find 5/5 reviews. Click on audience ratings. Most of them, talk about "toxic masculinity" rather than the project itself.

    And this is the annoying part, all these 5/5 reviews will not be treated as suspicious. But any and all negative reviews are being put in the same box. Because there is no way people would lie to promote a product. But disliking a project? No way! There is no possibility that someone might legitimate hate something like this.
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  4. - Top - End - #244
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    Default Re: Masters of the Universe: Revelation

    Only neckbeards and incels dislike Revelation because they hate women and canít get laid. I heard that from a reliable source on Twitter with the username TeelaFan12965488.

    Quote Originally Posted by Starbuck_II View Post
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    I mean, the first time was fine. Then they reunited, and it seemed okay, he will have to regain his powers and lost his afterlife reward but sacrifice is heroic.
    Then that Ending, dies again.
    Spoiler
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    But if He-Man didn't die the second time, how would he pass on the mantle of champion to Teela in Part 2?
    Last edited by Giggling Ghast; 2021-07-30 at 12:55 PM.

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    Default Re: Masters of the Universe: Revelation

    Quote Originally Posted by Giggling Ghast View Post
    Only neckbeards and incels dislike Revelation because they hate women and canít get laid. I heard that from a reliable source on Twitter with the username TeelaFan12965488.



    Spoiler
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    But if He-Man didn't die the second time, how would he pass on the mantle of champion to Teela in Part 2?
    Passing the mantle? No. Splitting the sword so they can both be special. You bet your ass.
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    Default Re: Masters of the Universe: Revelation

    Thatís more likely to occur with Teela and Andra, methinks.
    Last edited by Giggling Ghast; 2021-07-30 at 01:55 PM.
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    Default Re: Masters of the Universe: Revelation

    Quote Originally Posted by Giggling Ghast View Post
    Only neckbeards and incels dislike Revelation because they hate women and canít get laid. I heard that from a reliable source on Twitter with the username TeelaFan12965488.



    Spoiler
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    But if He-Man didn't die the second time, how would he pass on the mantle of champion to Teela in Part 2?
    I thought incels and neckbears were 100% in on this reboot because it was a step away from the feminist propaganda that was the She-Ra reboot?

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    Default Re: Masters of the Universe: Revelation

    Quote Originally Posted by DaOldeWolf View Post
    i am sorry to be the bearer of bad news but on review sites like rotten tomatoes, I dont even have to search to find 5/5 reviews. Click on audience ratings. Most of them, talk about "toxic masculinity" rather than the project itself.

    And this is the annoying part, all these 5/5 reviews will not be treated as suspicious. But any and all negative reviews are being put in the same box. Because there is no way people would lie to promote a product. But disliking a project? No way! There is no possibility that someone might legitimate hate something like this.
    Yeah, I think with regards to the reviews online there are definitely some with an axe to grind, but again I think this is in both directions. And anyone can find a specific type of review and use it as an example to put forth the idea that this is generally what all the vocal people on that side are thinking.

    It is true that some people like to see things head in a different direction. I have, for decades now, wanted Piccolo to take his place among the super saiya-jins as an equal. And actually DBZ is pretty good about focusing on the other characters throughout the arcs. But the show has clearly established that the powerhouses are, and will always be, the saiya-jins. Namekians will never achieve that level of power (although I should caveat that I have not followed the recent shows so I don't know anything about the god levels or whatever, the new stuff may contradict my point now). All to say that if a new story arch came out where Piccolo is front and center and has to save the day because the saiya-jins aren't strong enough, I would not mind that premise. I am betting some people would.

    So I genuinely believe that people like Revelation and like the shake up of characters and like that this wasn't five episodes of He-Man foiling Skeletor.

    But we have to be careful to understand that the existence of people with an axe to grind (on any side) is not evidence that all reviews or opinions on the show are inauthentic.
    Quote Originally Posted by Giggling Ghast
    Only neckbeards and incels dislike Revelation because they hate women and canít get laid. I heard that from a reliable source on Twitter with the username TeelaFan12965488.
    Lmao, this was a brief emotional roller coaster. Thank you for that

  9. - Top - End - #249
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    Default Re: Masters of the Universe: Revelation

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Samurai View Post
    Yeah, I think with regards to the reviews online there are definitely some with an axe to grind, but again I think this is in both directions. And anyone can find a specific type of review and use it as an example to put forth the idea that this is generally what all the vocal people on that side are thinking.
    Totally in agreement with this. My issue is the double standards on how people judge the two different stances. I dont think anyone is putting all the positive reviewers in the same box as those political reviewers. So, why should the negative crowd have to be put in the same crowd as another political movement?
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    Quote Originally Posted by jidasfire View Post
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    Default Re: Masters of the Universe: Revelation

    Quote Originally Posted by DaOldeWolf View Post
    Or the show could have been called Teela since you know everything revolves around her.
    Except it doesn't. Evil-Lynn for example has more agency in these few episodes than she did in years and years of the original. We're getting perspective on what all the other villains really think about Skeletor. And on the good side, we're getting a lot more background on Orko, Roboto, MAA etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaOldeWolf View Post
    i am sorry to be the bearer of bad news but on review sites like rotten tomatoes, I dont even have to search to find 5/5 reviews. Click on audience ratings. Most of them, talk about "toxic masculinity" rather than the project itself.
    Hence why I specified "here." I'm sure there are some people out in the world who do feel the need to try and counteract the haters. But while I see folks who almost certainly see this as a 1-star show here, I don't see any 5/5s.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaOldeWolf View Post
    And this is the annoying part, all these 5/5 reviews will not be treated as suspicious. But any and all negative reviews are being put in the same box. Because there is no way people would lie to promote a product. But disliking a project? No way! There is no possibility that someone might legitimate hate something like this.
    I never said I had a problem with "dislike." But thinking it is worse than Inhumans or Game of Thrones s8, of course I'm going to be suspicious of that.

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    Well. The evidence certainly does seem rather overwhelming that the fans on average think its either flaming garbage or at the very best just forgetable meh.
    I mean. If the fanbase were 50/50 split we would see an average score around 5 or so. But we dont. We see something thats horribly low.
    Self-selection bias; people who hate this thing passionately/furiously are much more likely to bother leaving a review at all than the majority of those who simply think it's fine, even if the latter constitutes a far greater portion of the audience.
    Last edited by Psyren; 2021-07-30 at 02:00 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    Default Re: Masters of the Universe: Revelation

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    Except it doesn't. Evil-Lynn for example has more agency in these few episodes than she did in years and years of the original. We're getting perspective on what all the other villains really think about Skeletor. And on the good side, we're getting a lot more background on Orko, Roboto, MAA etc.
    Are you honestly suggesting that my suggestion of changing the name to Teela or changing the title to Teela and the Masters of the Universe wouldnt have helped audiences understand what the final product is about?

    Hence why I specified "here." I'm sure there are some people out in the world who do feel the need to try and counteract the haters. But while I see folks who almost certainly see this as a 1-star show here, I don't see any 5/5s.
    And? We are a really tiny fragment of the whole audience. The chances could be that we all like the show. Or we all disliked. Or we all could think its meh and it wouldnt really be an accurate representation of the audience at large. Usually, the best way to know more about the general consensus, its to see how its doing everywhere. Go to forums, review sites, youtube, any mass media outlets. If the general percepcion seems to be negative, then its quite possibly not well liked. And in this specific case, that seems to be the case. There is lots of articles covering the dislike from fans, most review websites have the project with a low score based on general audience perception and even youtube reviewers and the like/dislike ratios that Netflix videos on the subject have gotten.

    My main issue remains how all of this, is being analyzed especially by the creator. Its a pretty reduccionist point of view.

    I never said I had a problem with "dislike." But thinking it is worse than Inhumans or Game of Thrones s8, of course I'm going to be suspicious of that.
    But that is the thing. It happens and its possible. My brotherīs favorite Batman movie is Batman&Robin. Yes, you are reading it right and he absolutely hates the Nolanverse. He thinks those movies have the worst Batman ever.

    I can totally believe that people may find this series entertaining, fresh and extremely well done (which is why the only thing I questioned on a positive review here was a point that even people that dislike this project praise). Just like I can believe people that tell me that they find Titanic dull or Avatar to be a really stupid movie. We are people. We have different experiences, values and interests. Its possible for any of us, to be in the minority in liking or disliking something.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jidasfire View Post
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    Default Re: Masters of the Universe: Revelation

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Samurai View Post

    It is true that some people like to see things head in a different direction. I have, for decades now, wanted Piccolo to take his place among the super saiya-jins as an equal. And actually DBZ is pretty good about focusing on the other characters throughout the arcs. But the show has clearly established that the powerhouses are, and will always be, the saiya-jins. Namekians will never achieve that level of power (although I should caveat that I have not followed the recent shows so I don't know anything about the god levels or whatever, the new stuff may contradict my point now). All to say that if a new story arch came out where Piccolo is front and center and has to save the day because the saiya-jins aren't strong enough, I would not mind that premise. I am betting some people would.
    Well, you might be excited to know that apparently the new movie, Dragon Ball Super: Super Hero (...kind of a dumb title, but whatever) is supposed to be particularly focused on the side characters, specifically Piccolo, Krillin, and seemingly Pan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaOldeWolf View Post
    Are you honestly suggesting that my suggestion of changing the name to Teela or changing the title to Teela and the Masters of the Universe wouldnt have helped audiences understand what the final product is about?
    I'm saying I disagree with your statement that "everything revolves around her." If we don't agree on that, then your title change clearly won't fly with me either.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaOldeWolf View Post
    And? We are a really tiny fragment of the whole audience. The chances could be that we all like the show. Or we all disliked. Or we all could think its meh and it wouldnt really be an accurate representation of the audience at large. Usually, the best way to know more about the general consensus, its to see how its doing everywhere. Go to forums, review sites, youtube, any mass media outlets. If the general percepcion seems to be negative, then its quite possibly not well liked. And in this specific case, that seems to be the case. There is lots of articles covering the dislike from fans, most review websites have the project with a low score based on general audience perception and even youtube reviewers and the like/dislike ratios that Netflix videos on the subject have gotten.
    And the high critical scores? You think that they... what, got paid off?

    If both were low I'd agree with you, but they're not, and for good reason. The show is technically superb and very well acted. A divisive plot doesn't, in my mind, account for the disparity on its own without agendas being pushed by the jilted.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaOldeWolf View Post
    But that is the thing. It happens and its possible.
    Doesn't change what I said in that quote.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    Default Re: Masters of the Universe: Revelation

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    And the high critical scores? You think that they... what, got paid off?

    If both were low I'd agree with you, but they're not, and for good reason. The show is technically superb and very well acted. A divisive plot doesn't, in my mind, account for the disparity on its own without agendas being pushed by the jilted.
    Have you considered the idea that maybe something being "technically superb" isn't enough to make it...good to a lot of people?

    Like, there are a lot of shows that are well acted, with good or at least passable effects, and they suck anyway. Look at a lot of the middle seasons of Supernatural, for instance. Looks good, I like the actors...watching them was a ****ing slog.

    Good effects and acting don't make a show. Hell, a good plot on its own doesn't make a show either, because bad acting and (to a lesser extent) effects can bring it down.

    A tv series is more than just the sum of its parts. There's no arbitrary limit where one part of the show is SO good that it outweighs the other parts in determining whether it's good or not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    I'm saying I disagree with your statement that "everything revolves around her." If we don't agree on that, then your title change clearly won't fly with me either.
    If you say so... Teela is the main character though.

    And the high critical scores? You think that they... what, got paid off?

    If both were low I'd agree with you, but they're not, and for good reason. The show is technically superb and very well acted. A divisive plot doesn't, in my mind, account for the disparity on its own without agendas being pushed by the jilted.
    Not necessarily. Though I see mainline critics having a hard time saying anything negative about projects like this. Just to put forth some examples of disliked and unpopular movies, we have Ghostbusters (2016) 74%, Terminator Dark Fate 70%. The Last Jedi 90%. I cant think on any mainstream media of this sort that has gotten 20% or less (are there any?). Afterall, even random people on the internet have to deal with being painted as as sexist for disliking something like this. I am sure the pressure would be higher for someone that has to put his face in the line. And, like it or not, there are many perks for being seen favorably by the companies making the products. There is a reason, there have been controversies involving game reviewers, book/comic book reviewers, etc.

    Also, there is the possibility that they are in the minority that liked it for some weird coincidence. To cite an example, there is Voltron Season 8 Critics 86%, Audience 6%. And it had pretty high audience scores starting from the first season with 94%.Go ahead and try to explain the discrepancy or try to tell me that there might not be red flags if the audiences shifted so radically of opinion by the 8th season. In a case like this, who would you rather believe?

    Doesn't change what I said in that quote.
    Its not about changing what is in your quote. Its about pointing out how is more plausible than you think.
    Last edited by DaOldeWolf; 2021-07-31 at 12:04 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jidasfire View Post
    On a long enough scale, every OOTS forum discussion turns into a debate about alignment, Miko, or Familicide.
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    Default Re: Masters of the Universe: Revelation

    Quote Originally Posted by DaOldeWolf View Post
    If you say so... Teela is the main character though.
    And? Robin is the main character in Teen Titans, everything doesn't "revolve around him" either.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaOldeWolf View Post
    Not necessarily. Though I see mainline critics having a hard time saying anything negative about projects like this. Just to put forth some examples of disliked and unpopular movies, we have Ghostbusters (2016)
    74%, Terminator Dark Fate 70%. The Last Jedi 90%.
    Ah yes, more review-bombs. Thanks for illustrating my point.

    I didn't watch Voltron so I can't speak to that.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaOldeWolf View Post
    Its not about changing what is in your quote. Its about pointing out how is more plausible than you think.
    If you say so.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    Default Re: Masters of the Universe: Revelation

    Critics don't have to be directly paid off. They have a vested interest in pleasing big studios. Specially "access media".

    This isn't anything new. There's a reason IGN's 10/10 is a meme.
    There are literally interviews where "professional" critics admit they can't criticize certain products, specially projects from big studios.

    There's also the fear of being labeled some -ist or -phobe. It's one of the most common ways to dismiss criticism without actually addressing it nowadays.
    Last edited by Lemmy; 2021-07-31 at 02:05 AM.
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    Default Re: Masters of the Universe: Revelation

    In case anyone wants to dispute that, I've worked for review sites before. I have had the direct experience of the higher ups saying "No, we don't want to say anything negative about the product. Can you rework this paragraph?"

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    Default Re: Masters of the Universe: Revelation

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    And? Robin is the main character in Teen Titans, everything doesn't "revolve around him" either.
    No, all 5 titans are. There are episodes dedicated to other titans with nothing important for Robin to do. Almost every titan got a seson finale just for themselves. (Beast Boy technically got 2 and Starfire didnt get any.) That is not at all the situation here with MOTU.

    Ah yes, more review-bombs. Thanks for illustrating my point.

    I didn't watch Voltron so I can't speak to that.
    Why is it review bombing? What makes it review bombing? That the last season of Voltron got a really negative score? Why is the 97% from its first season trustworthy but the 6% of its last season untrustworthy? Like I said before, why is it that negative scores have to be considered suspicious but positives arent? The films didnt do well but critics seem to believe those films are good but check out there and the consensus couldnt be further away. Also, if critics cant biased, why couldnt you name a few films that fall in this same sort of group that have gotten 20% or less?

    I would say seasons 1-6 are great. I didnt watch the last season (and didnt finish season7) thought after I saw the reviews, I wasnt really interested. I will put up what I understand happened in spoilers to prevent anyone that might be interested in watching. But to explain what happened:

    Spoiler
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    -They killed one of the two female leads (its more of sacrifice but still >_>)
    -No one in the show gets with anyone in the show. (RIP all ships)
    -There was a lot of teasing about talking about exploring the sexuality of one of the main characters. We got a one scene that doesnt really do much of anything and a wedding cutscene at the end of the series with a nobody and nothing more. (there were many accusations of queerbaiting)
    -There are some questionable decisions about what the characters decide to do on the epilogue.

    Those are the ones I remember reading but there is a lot more that I cant remember currently. Also, not giving names to reduce how spoilerrific it is.

    I can understand how there was backlash. Of course, if we go by your logic of the political stance bombers, then the logical conclusion would be that the same political group that is defending MOTU would be the ones attacking this one. And the opposite political group (he one against MOTU) should be praising it. Still, I prefer to believe that mistakes were made and people didnt like them.
    Last edited by DaOldeWolf; 2021-07-31 at 01:30 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jidasfire View Post
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    Default Re: Masters of the Universe: Revelation

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemmy View Post
    Critics don't have to be directly paid off. They have a vested interest in pleasing big studios. Specially "access media".

    This isn't anything new. There's a reason IGN's 10/10 is a meme.
    Using this reasoning you wouldn't be able to trust any critical reviews at all. That's a pretty cynical way of approaching professional reviews.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaOldeWolf View Post
    Why is it review bombing? What makes it review bombing?
    When the response is wholly disproportionate to the quality of the product, due to an agenda on the part of the reviewers. (Or in the case of films like Captain Marvel, which was getting bad reviews by people who hadn't even watched it, completely unrelated to the quality of the product. And it's not just me saying it.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaOldeWolf View Post
    Still, I prefer to believe that mistakes were made and people didnt like them.
    For the umpteenth time, I don't have a problem with "dislike." But the audience score being tanked like this, under all-too-familiar circumstances, goes beyond mere dislike. You're trying to convince me the show is just that bad, so I'll save you time - you won't.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    Default Re: Masters of the Universe: Revelation

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    Using this reasoning you wouldn't be able to trust any critical reviews at all. That's a pretty cynical way of approaching professional reviews.
    Yes. Don't trust critical reviews at all. Well, take them with a grain of salt. There's always an ulterior motive.

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    Default Re: Masters of the Universe: Revelation

    Quote Originally Posted by DaOldeWolf View Post
    I would say seasons 1-6 are great. I didnt watch the last season (and didnt finish season7) thought after I saw the reviews, I wasnt really interested. I will put up what I understand happened in spoilers to prevent anyone that might be interested in watching. But to explain what happened:

    Spoiler
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    -They killed one of the two female leads (its more of sacrifice but still >_>)
    -No one in the show gets with anyone in the show. (RIP all ships)
    -There was a lot of teasing about talking about exploring the sexuality of one of the main characters. We got a one scene that doesnt really do much of anything and a wedding cutscene at the end of the series with a nobody and nothing more. (there were many accusations of queerbaiting)
    -There are some questionable decisions about what the characters decide to do on the epilogue.

    Those are the ones I remember reading but there is a lot more that I cant remember currently. Also, not giving names to reduce how spoilerrific it is.

    I can understand how there was backlash. Of course, if we go by your logic of the political stance bombers, then the logical conclusion would be that the same political group that is defending MOTU would be the ones attacking this one. And the opposite political group (he one against MOTU) should be praising it. Still, I prefer to believe that mistakes were made and people didnt like them.
    Spoiler: Voltron
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    Meanwhile, I did finish all 8 seasons, and I did enjoy the last ones less than the first few, but the negative features talked about in reviews are blown out of proportion, misunderstood, or entirely self-inflicted. What distinctly did happen is a shift in scope, pace, and goals that means the later seasons were not about the same things as the earlier seasons and not delivered in the same manner. They Changed It; Now It Sucks. To break down what reviews said to you: A ton of complaints caused by shipping, and vague stuff. What I'd actually say is they spend a lot of effort on a single planet (it's Earth, ok, but it's still a single planet) then take a hard turn towards quickly wrapping up some kind of new threat, leaving the original premise kind of unaddressed. It's kind of like the final arc of Gurren Lagann otherwise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    Using this reasoning you wouldn't be able to trust any critical reviews at all. That's a pretty cynical way of approaching professional reviews.
    People have been cynical of professional reviews since before internet aggregated audience reviews were a thing. A sharp contrast doesn't exist just between critics and audience members, one exist just as well between small-press independent critics and big-press critics (who, yes, often do get paid just for there to be a review, and have been historically been paid to give specific (usually good) scores too), especially when talking of non-English reviewers and reviews. It isn't rare for small-press reviews to give absolutely scathing reviews for movies that appear to have both high critical and audience scores on websites such as Rotten Tomatoes.

    Of course, the way they are scathing often has little to no resemblance to social media outrage. For example, prime reasons for 2-out-of-5-star reviews for the Last Jedi? "Too long, too slow paced, too bloated". Nothing about Rey, or Finn, or Rose, or Holdo maneuver breaking established canon - just big, overarching structural problems with the movie.

    EDIT: oh, almost forgot, regarding your point about technical presentation: a lot of reviews end up giving 3-out-of-5-stars based on that. So the actual, written review might be absolutely merciless regarding the plot, characters, pacing etc. yet the score ends up looking decent. This bumps up the average which is why a lot of people who read these reviews consider middling ratings to be bad. It's more pronounced with videogames. The nominal rating scale might go from 0 to 100, but actual scores given cluster between 70 and 90, so 80 often ends up given to even middle-of-the-pack forgettable games which are technically competent and not much else.
    Last edited by Vahnavoi; 2021-07-31 at 04:44 AM.

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    Default Re: Masters of the Universe: Revelation

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    For the umpteenth time, I don't have a problem with "dislike." But the audience score being tanked like this, under all-too-familiar circumstances, goes beyond mere dislike. You're trying to convince me the show is just that bad, so I'll save you time - you won't.
    A show doesn't have to be bad to be disliked. Acting, directing, writing, scenery can be absolutely superb, but a person can still not like the story or being lied to on what it is about and refuse to watch it as a result. Those people may also express their dislike for those reasons.
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    Default Re: Masters of the Universe: Revelation

    Self-selection bias; people who hate this thing passionately/furiously are much more likely to bother leaving a review at all than the majority of those who simply think it's fine, even if the latter constitutes a far greater portion of the audience.
    Yes and that go both ways. People who merely disliked the show or found it meh would bother leaving a review either.
    its only the most passionate. Good or bad, who bother leaving a review.

    So it seems pretty clear the later dont constitutes a greater part of the audience.
    Something thats still also supported by the average sentiment here.
    By all account, the review average is around 2/10 or something.
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    Default Re: Masters of the Universe: Revelation

    Curiosity question about He-Man's sword--
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    Was it ever said or shown in an episode that someone other than Adam could use the sword to call upon the power of Grayskull?

    I don't recall that it ever has before, so watching Skeletor invoke the sword seemed weirdly sudden.
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    Default Re: Masters of the Universe: Revelation

    Quote Originally Posted by DigoDragon View Post
    Curiosity question about He-Man's sword--
    Spoiler
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    Was it ever said or shown in an episode that someone other than Adam could use the sword to call upon the power of Grayskull?

    I don't recall that it ever has before, so watching Skeletor invoke the sword seemed weirdly sudden.
    Spoiler
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    Not in the old cartoon, but it was in the illustrated storybooks that came with the first wave of He-Man toys. That was where the idea of the Power Sword being split into two and Skeletor trying to get them to use their power came about.

    The original He-Man and Skeletor toys came with swords that could be plugged together to make one "completed" sword.

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    Default Re: Masters of the Universe: Revelation

    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
    Yes. Don't trust critical reviews at all. Well, take them with a grain of salt. There's always an ulterior motive.
    People who have the training, vocabulary and experience to accurately examine a work's technical merits always mean more to me than an angry mob whipped into a frenzy because (in part) female main character.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pex View Post
    A show doesn't have to be bad to be disliked. Acting, directing, writing, scenery can be absolutely superb, but a person can still not like the story or being lied to on what it is about and refuse to watch it as a result. Those people may also express their dislike for those reasons.
    "Absolutely superb acting, directing, scenery" do not a 30% show make in my eyes. Hence my distrust of the audience score, and coupled with a similar pattern in recent shows I have concluded that it's review-bombing at work resulting in such a low score.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vahnavoi View Post
    EDIT: oh, almost forgot, regarding your point about technical presentation: a lot of reviews end up giving 3-out-of-5-stars based on that.
    My point exactly - 3/5 is 60%, not 30%.

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    its only the most passionate. Good or bad, who bother leaving a review.
    Except it's never equal, because psychology. It's well known and documented that unhappy people are more likely to post a bad review, than happy people are to post a good review - that's just how our brains work, the bad experience will be more motivating to the unhappy person to take action than the reverse to the reverse. That's the bias I'm referring to.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    Default Re: Masters of the Universe: Revelation

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    Using this reasoning you wouldn't be able to trust any critical reviews at all. That's a pretty cynical way of approaching professional reviews.
    I would say the point is "Dont trust them blindly." That is why I said to look everywhere you can for opinion. Because, its more likely you will find yourself closer to what is the true opinion if you look at it from everywhere.

    When the response is wholly disproportionate to the quality of the product, due to an agenda on the part of the reviewers. (Or in the case of films like Captain Marvel, which was getting bad reviews by people who hadn't even watched it, completely unrelated to the quality of the product. And it's not just me saying it.
    When is the response wholly disproportionate to the quality product? What dictates that it is suspicious? What dictates the quality of the product? Critics? The money spent of the project? Actors? Director? Producers? Writers?

    I dont understand the point of giving me movies with negative scores. Show me evidence that each and everyone of these movies has been tampered with to the level that they would oppress actual audiences scores. Because the "toxic masculinity" excuse is used for everything from reviews to box office underperformance. Its not evidence until you can actually prove that they can change scores completely by themselves and make people not watch films/buy products. A creator saying as such is no evidence. People being suspicious about a group giving bad reviews is not evidence either. Evidence is proving that all or most negative reviews were given in bad faith with facts.

    For the umpteenth time, I don't have a problem with "dislike." But the audience score being tanked like this, under all-too-familiar circumstances, goes beyond mere dislike. You're trying to convince me the show is just that bad, so I'll save you time - you won't.
    And I repeat that the interpretation is the issue. You basically keep saying A=B always. A being the negative score, B being people having bad intentions trying to kill interest in a product. And that is not the case. Everyone can have a bad opinion on a product and its just a legitimate as liking it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zalabim View Post
    Spoiler: Voltron
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    Points
    Interesting. So, how would you rate the last season? Out of curiosity.

    Except it's never equal, because psychology. It's well known and documented that unhappy people are more likely to post a bad review, than happy people are to post a good review - that's just how our brains work, the bad experience will be more motivating to the unhappy person to take action than the reverse to the reverse. That's the bias I'm referring to.
    By this logic, every single product/company/service should have a low score and high scores should be scarce. And from everything I have seen, its usually the opposite that happens.
    Last edited by DaOldeWolf; 2021-07-31 at 12:25 PM.
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    On a long enough scale, every OOTS forum discussion turns into a debate about alignment, Miko, or Familicide.
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    Default Re: Masters of the Universe: Revelation

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    Using this reasoning you wouldn't be able to trust any critical reviews at all. That's a pretty cynical way of approaching professional reviews.
    Yup. That's pretty much the point where "professional" reviews stand. Specially from major sites, and even more so reviews of products from giant companies. Journalism in general is took a massive drop in quality in the last couple decades.

    Small independent reviews... Much more trustworthy than, say, IGN, Eurogamer, etc... But even, one should always take them with a huge grain of salt, as Rynjin mentioned. And always actually listen and consider arguments of the other side, instead of just dismissing it as trolling and/or bigotry.
    Last edited by Lemmy; 2021-07-31 at 12:17 PM.
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