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    Default War of the Rohirrim: LOTR prequel anime

    As seen . Apparently the director who gave us Ghost in the Shell is directing "War of the Rohirrim", an anime prequel to Lord of the Rings.

    I love anime and I know Kenji Kamiyama isn't a dragon ball Z director. All the same, I somehow can't help imagining LOTR being overrun by anime tropes.

    Still, it does explain why Gandalf came back after Moria; that wasn't his final form

    Respectfully,

    Brian P.
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    Default Re: War of the Rohirrim: LOTR prequel anime

    I'd kind of like to know why somebody looks at a bunch of anglo-saxons on horses and goes "yes! This should be in an anime style!"

    Beyond that, i guess im kind of cynical of anybody making any LOTR stuff right now as an attempt to cash in on Amazon's temporary raised awareness of the setting. Maybe it will be good, but i cant help but think that LOTR style grounded fantasy wont cooperate well with Anime.
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    Default Re: War of the Rohirrim: LOTR prequel anime

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    I'd kind of like to know why somebody looks at a bunch of anglo-saxons on horses and goes "yes! This should be in an anime style!"

    Beyond that, i guess im kind of cynical of anybody making any LOTR stuff right now as an attempt to cash in on Amazon's temporary raised awareness of the setting. Maybe it will be good, but i cant help but think that LOTR style grounded fantasy wont cooperate well with Anime.
    What? You're saying the nine Nazgul combining into one gigantic Uber-Nazgul (Nazgul Ultima?) is not in keeping with the spirit of JRR Tolkien?
    Or a thirty second stock transformation when Frodo puts on the ring, complete with costume change?
    Or the Eagles being able to change into human form as high school girls, complete with anachronistic sailor outfits?
    Or Minas Tirith turning into a giant mecha when the armies of Mordor approach?

    C'mon, Tolkien would TOTALLY go for it, were he not spinning in his grave so fast a connected turbine could power a small city.

    Tongue-in-cheek ,

    Brian P.
    Last edited by pendell; 2021-06-10 at 08:43 PM.
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    Default Re: War of the Rohirrim: LOTR prequel anime

    Honestly after the Hobbit movies, the Shadow of Morder/Shadow of War games*, and probably some other terrible things I'm forgetting, I'm going to suspect all giant corporation produced LoTR media as at least one of

    1. terrible on its own merits
    2. a rip-off of something else
    3. completely missing the point


    until it proves itself otherwise. The pen and paper RPGs are good, but those are niche enough they can laser focus on being, you know, Lord of the Rings, instead of a generic fantasy thing with highly marketable characters.

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    Default Re: War of the Rohirrim: LOTR prequel anime

    I mean.....

    if they adapted the Silmarillion as an anime instead, I think there'd be no problems about the accuracy of the portrayal.

    as it is, I can see Rohirrim being told like a samurai story though. who is Helm Hammerhand......apparently he is a guy who canonically fought barehanded, and thats where he gets the last name. oh. well this makes a lot more sense now. and that this wasn't a one time thing, he slaw MANY people with his bare hands....and yeah judging from what I'm reading of Helm, this isn't going to be happy anime with all that nonsense you guys are joking about.

    basically? think less "heroic knight with cool anime swordplay defends his kingdom" and more "Rip and Tear Until it is Done With Dunlandings".
    Last edited by Lord Raziere; 2021-06-10 at 09:25 PM.
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    Default Re: War of the Rohirrim: LOTR prequel anime

    Quote Originally Posted by warty goblin View Post
    Honestly after the Hobbit movies, the Shadow of Morder/Shadow of War games*, and probably some other terrible things I'm forgetting, I'm going to suspect all giant corporation produced LoTR media as at least one of

    1. terrible on its own merits
    2. a rip-off of something else
    3. completely missing the point


    until it proves itself otherwise. The pen and paper RPGs are good, but those are niche enough they can laser focus on being, you know, Lord of the Rings, instead of a generic fantasy thing with highly marketable characters.

    *I will not forgive sexy Shelob. Ever.
    I'm kind of with you here. Maybe it will be good. Maybe I'll enjoy it.

    But I am suspicious.

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    Default Re: War of the Rohirrim: LOTR prequel anime

    A lot of this thread sounds like people are still stuck in the 90s interpretation of what anime can be. Which was always wrong, but it's odd to still see it held onto in this thread.

    I'd be less worried about the show being "too steeped in anime tropes" and more Kenji Kamiyama crawling up his own ass like he always does. Giving Kamiyama the rights to LotR stuff is kind of like giving them to Christopher Nolan.

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    Default Re: War of the Rohirrim: LOTR prequel anime

    Quote Originally Posted by warty goblin View Post
    *I will not forgive sexy Shelob. Ever.
    I'm sorry, what?

    *googles this*

    What?!

    Geez, I see I was right to skip that based on everything I heard giving me the impression it wouldn't even be trying very much to fit into LotR. Even still, good lord, that's way further afield than even I suspected.

    Oh, uh, yeah, War of the Rohirrim anime. Eh, an announcement of it with virtually no details means nothing to me, I'll judge it once we have something more concrete to go on. I'm certainly not holding my breath or getting excited or anything, but there's always the possibility this is a case where they'll do a decent job, until we see evidence otherwise.
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    Default Re: War of the Rohirrim: LOTR prequel anime

    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
    I'd be less worried about the show being "too steeped in anime tropes" and more Kenji Kamiyama crawling up his own ass like he always does. Giving Kamiyama the rights to LotR stuff is kind of like giving them to Christopher Nolan.
    He's not writing it though. It's being written by two Americans and produced by New Line. I think it will be fairly restrained for all that.

    Personally, I'd be more worried about Sola Entertainment as the animation studio. Their work list is somewhat underwhelming and there's nothing on it that suggests an appropriate style for animating Middle Earth. 3d animation seems the obvious choice to present large armies in animation, and they do have experience there, but that sort of thing always looks very glossy, suitable for futuristic settings not the earthiness of Rohan (on a technical note, Rohan is a grassland, and 3d animation and grass do not mix well).
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    Default Re: War of the Rohirrim: LOTR prequel anime

    Quote Originally Posted by Mechalich View Post
    He's not writing it though. It's being written by two Americans and produced by New Line. I think it will be fairly restrained for all that.

    Personally, I'd be more worried about Sola Entertainment as the animation studio. Their work list is somewhat underwhelming and there's nothing on it that suggests an appropriate style for animating Middle Earth. 3d animation seems the obvious choice to present large armies in animation, and they do have experience there, but that sort of thing always looks very glossy, suitable for futuristic settings not the earthiness of Rohan (on a technical note, Rohan is a grassland, and 3d animation and grass do not mix well).
    Oof. Yeah, a lot of the things on that list are NOTORIOUSLY bad, like SAC 2045 and that godawful Ultraman show I tried an episode of. Here's a snippet from SAC 2045 BTW.


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    Default Re: War of the Rohirrim: LOTR prequel anime

    Honestly, I'm more confused about the subject matter than anuthing else. The history of Rohan has got to be the most mundane part of the Lengendarium. No magic, no elves, no dwarves, barely no orcs. Just a bunch of Anglo-Saxon cosplayers fighting a bunch of Celt cosplayers and the occasional Magyar cosplayer.
    No great "Good vs Evil" affairs either.
    As part of a larger thing focusing on the Third Age, sure, why not? But on its own? This isn't really what people go to Middle-Earth for in my opinion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    I'd kind of like to know why somebody looks at a bunch of anglo-saxons on horses and goes "yes! This should be in an anime style!"

    Beyond that, i guess im kind of cynical of anybody making any LOTR stuff right now as an attempt to cash in on Amazon's temporary raised awareness of the setting. Maybe it will be good, but i cant help but think that LOTR style grounded fantasy wont cooperate well with Anime.
    Quote Originally Posted by pendell View Post
    What? You're saying the nine Nazgul combining into one gigantic Uber-Nazgul (Nazgul Ultima?) is not in keeping with the spirit of JRR Tolkien?
    Or a thirty second stock transformation when Frodo puts on the ring, complete with costume change?
    Or the Eagles being able to change into human form as high school girls, complete with anachronistic sailor outfits?
    Or Minas Tirith turning into a giant mecha when the armies of Mordor approach?

    C'mon, Tolkien would TOTALLY go for it, were he not spinning in his grave so fast a connected turbine could power a small city.

    Tongue-in-cheek ,

    Brian P.
    Oh, come on guys! This is exactly what the people who say "Comic books are all about people in spandex punching each other", "Sci-fi is about robots going beep-boop in space" and "fantasy is about teenage boys waving around magic swords on dragonback while seducing a barely dressed elf girl" are doing. Animation can tell any story.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    as it is, I can see Rohirrim being told like a samurai story though. who is Helm Hammerhand......apparently he is a guy who canonically fought barehanded, and thats where he gets the last name. oh. well this makes a lot more sense now. and that this wasn't a one time thing, he slaw MANY people with his bare hands....and yeah judging from what I'm reading of Helm, this isn't going to be happy anime with all that nonsense you guys are joking about.

    basically? think less "heroic knight with cool anime swordplay defends his kingdom" and more "Rip and Tear Until it is Done With Dunlandings".
    Helm Hammerhand is a jackass, that's for sure. I'm fairly certain he wasn't intended as a "good guy" either.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    the Vector Legion [is the IFCC's new pawns], mark my words. Way too much unfinished business there and they already know about the Gates.
    I'll take that bet.

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    Default Re: War of the Rohirrim: LOTR prequel anime

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Honestly, I'm more confused about the subject matter than anuthing else. The history of Rohan has got to be the most mundane part of the Lengendarium. No magic, no elves, no dwarves, barely no orcs. Just a bunch of Anglo-Saxon cosplayers fighting a bunch of Celt cosplayers and the occasional Magyar cosplayer.
    No great "Good vs Evil" affairs either.
    As part of a larger thing focusing on the Third Age, sure, why not? But on its own? This isn't really what people go to Middle-Earth for in my opinion.

    Helm Hammerhand is a jackass, that's for sure. I'm fairly certain he wasn't intended as a "good guy" either.
    1. It could be a "test the waters" thing? you make something smaller to test how well the style will do with something more grounded and easily followable. then if it does well, you move on to something bigger and flashier and cut loose. after all if immediately go big and screw up with that, well that is too much of a risk, but if you start smaller and it fails well, no one is going to miss it. its low risk with a franchise like this, something like the Silmarillion would be higher risk since its much more important lorewise, and thus be more of a loss if they start with that and screw up and thus get chewed out by the fandom.

    2. from what I've read, "jackass" is putting it lightly, he sounds more like a psychotic berserker who got worse as time went on.
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    Default Re: War of the Rohirrim: LOTR prequel anime

    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
    A lot of this thread sounds like people are still stuck in the 90s interpretation of what anime can be. Which was always wrong, but it's odd to still see it held onto in this thread.

    I'd be less worried about the show being "too steeped in anime tropes" and more Kenji Kamiyama crawling up his own ass like he always does. Giving Kamiyama the rights to LotR stuff is kind of like giving them to Christopher Nolan.
    Are they? I've seen 3 of the parody items on Pendell's list done in the last year. All of those tropes are still going strong as far as I can tell.

    I'm super skeptical they could pull this off. Anime LOTR could work with a serious and understated style. I don't see that happening, especially after all the other LOTR fanfiction has failed to understand the setting.

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    Default Re: War of the Rohirrim: LOTR prequel anime

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
    Are they? I've seen 3 of the parody items on Pendell's list done in the last year. All of those tropes are still going strong as far as I can tell.
    Sure. By that token, every single film ever made is a superhero film, because some of those are coming out this year.

    Shonen action series and giant robots are genres in a medium with just as broad of an ability to tell various stories as any other medium. And it always has been.

    Series like Black Jack and Monster have always been around. Vinland Saga just came out in 2019. To Your Eternity is one of the biggest series this season.

    That is, respectively, an episodic series about a skilled but unusual doctor (well predating many of the live action examples, even), a grounded thriller about a serial killer and the man who tries to stop him, a historical drama about vikings, and an ages spanning tale about an immortal being coming to know and appreciate humanity (and by extension grief and loss). These are a small smattering of the things the medium provides besides the dated stereotype.

    With the people working on it, do I expect it to be a masterpiece of fiction like Vinland Saga? No. But that's not an issue with anime as a medium, it's an issue with 90% of everything being ****, and anime is no exception.

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    Default Re: War of the Rohirrim: LOTR prequel anime

    Quote Originally Posted by warty goblin View Post
    *I will not forgive sexy Shelob. Ever.
    Just think, if this project is a bit then we could get an anime featuring Shelob-kun!

    But yeah, out me in the 'eh?' camp. It's not that I don't think it can be pulled off it's that I'm I just didn't expect it and would be worried that it just won't look right.
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    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

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    Default Re: War of the Rohirrim: LOTR prequel anime

    I can't remember the story of Helm, so I have nothing to make a judgement with.

    Y'all need to watch more anime, it's an animation style, not a genre.

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    Default Re: War of the Rohirrim: LOTR prequel anime

    Quote Originally Posted by pendell View Post
    As seen . Apparently the director who gave us Ghost in the Shell is directing "War of the Rohirrim", an anime prequel to Lord of the Rings.

    I love anime and I know Kenji Kamiyama isn't a dragon ball Z director. All the same, I somehow can't help imagining LOTR being overrun by anime tropes.
    Personally I think LotR could be improved with some anime tropes. At the half way point a bunch of anime school girls show up to make up for the lack of female roles.

    Quote Originally Posted by pendell View Post
    Still, it does explain why Gandalf came back after Moria; that wasn't his final form

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    Default Re: War of the Rohirrim: LOTR prequel anime

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    1. It could be a "test the waters" thing? you make something smaller to test how well the style will do with something more grounded and easily followable. then if it does well, you move on to something bigger and flashier and cut loose. after all if immediately go big and screw up with that, well that is too much of a risk, but if you start smaller and it fails well, no one is going to miss it. its low risk with a franchise like this, something like the Silmarillion would be higher risk since its much more important lorewise, and thus be more of a loss if they start with that and screw up and thus get chewed out by the fandom.
    That would make sense, but I suspect another reason. Most of the history of Rohan (including Helm's rule) is told in the Appendices to the Lord of the Ring which means that New Line already has secured the adaptation rights, unlike for the Silmarillion or the Unfinished Tales whose rights are still firmly controlled by the Tolkien Estate.

    2. from what I've read, "jackass" is putting it lightly, he sounds more like a psychotic berserker who got worse as time went on.
    I'd have to re-read that bit once I get home, but if memory serves, he was more of a racist brute than a berserker. It's not like he charged the ennemy camp alone or anything. And he seems to have tolerated Freca's disrespect for a while.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    the Vector Legion [is the IFCC's new pawns], mark my words. Way too much unfinished business there and they already know about the Gates.
    I'll take that bet.

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    Default Re: War of the Rohirrim: LOTR prequel anime

    Quote Originally Posted by pendell View Post
    C'mon, Tolkien would TOTALLY go for it, were he not spinning in his grave so fast a connected turbine could power a small city.
    I doubt any of that would add more than half an rpm to his existing spin, given what's already happened with the franchise. I mean we got hot lady Shelob in one of the videogames (because videogames).

    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard View Post
    Just think, if this project is a bit then we could get an anime featuring Shelob-kun!
    Spoiler
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    (Actually, it's awesome)
    Last edited by GloatingSwine; 2021-06-11 at 06:23 AM.

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    Default Re: War of the Rohirrim: LOTR prequel anime

    Quote Originally Posted by Sapphire Guard View Post
    Y'all need to watch more anime, it's an animation style, not a genre.
    Unfortunately shonen is a genre.

    That said, there's a decent chance of it turning out not a complete disaster - the Kingdom anime is reasonable interpretation of the manga which covers the Warring States period of China and features (lots of) bronze age technology battles between massed armies.

    Shifting it forwards a thousand-plus years to the Saxon era shouldn't be too much of a jump.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Oni View Post
    Unfortunately shonen is a genre.
    Shonen is also not a genre, it is a target audience. Dragon Ball, Fist of the North Star, Great Teacher Onizuka, Bakuman, The Promised Neverland, and Death Note are all shonen.
    Last edited by Rynjin; 2021-06-11 at 07:10 AM.

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    Default Re: War of the Rohirrim: LOTR prequel anime

    I don't see 'shonen' in the press release anywhere.

    I mean we got hot lady Shelob in one of the videogames (because videogames).
    Which one was that?

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    Default Re: War of the Rohirrim: LOTR prequel anime

    Quote Originally Posted by Sapphire Guard View Post
    Which one was that?
    Shadow of War. (The one that also had lootboxes full of orcs).

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    Default Re: War of the Rohirrim: LOTR prequel anime

    ...huh. Wasn't that the one that had

    Spoiler
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    Celebrimbor use the ring to hide from Sauron in Mount Doom, which in the book was the best way to indicate your location to him?


    Saw some Shadow of Mordor on Youtube, seemed like a good game.

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    Default Re: War of the Rohirrim: LOTR prequel anime

    Quote Originally Posted by Sapphire Guard View Post
    ...huh. Wasn't that the one that had

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    Celebrimbor use the ring to hide from Sauron in Mount Doom, which in the book was the best way to indicate your location to him?


    Saw some Shadow of Mordor on Youtube, seemed like a good game.
    Something like that. It should be pretty clear that any theme or meaning that could have been found in Lord of the Rings has long since been abandoned by its adaptations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapphire Guard View Post
    Saw some Shadow of Mordor on Youtube, seemed like a good game.
    It was pretty decent if you could get past the massacring of Middle Earth lore. Shadow of War gave up any pretense of being a LOTR game in favor of "Hey, wouldn't it be cool to command an army of orcs?"

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    Default Re: War of the Rohirrim: LOTR prequel anime

    The uncomfortable thing was how quickly all these adaptations moved once Christopher Tolkien died and could no longer protect his father's legacy. I admired how much he resisted cashing in.

    Edit: Looked it up. You know, Shelob probably does have the ability to shapeshift into a human form if she wanted to, the question would be why she would want to.

    Likewise Celebrimbor knows more ringlore than virtually anyone else, if there was a way to do it he would know.

    This stuff technically fits the lore, it's just really skating the edges of credibility.
    Last edited by Sapphire Guard; 2021-06-11 at 08:34 AM.

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    Default Re: War of the Rohirrim: LOTR prequel anime

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
    Are they? I've seen 3 of the parody items on Pendell's list done in the last year. All of those tropes are still going strong as far as I can tell.

    I'm super skeptical they could pull this off. Anime LOTR could work with a serious and understated style. I don't see that happening, especially after all the other LOTR fanfiction has failed to understand the setting.
    I'm glad SOMEONE got the fact that I was kidding. I've watched a lot of anime, including some of the really good stuff that's come out like the original Ghost in the Shell and the modern Golden Kamuy which if NC-17 for violence is still a very, very good show. It doesn't use any of those tropes and tells a terrific story of a veteran of the battle of Hill 352 linking up with an Ainu orphan to search what is now Hokkaido and the Karafuto peninsula for a hidden gold cache intended for use to set up an independent Republic separate from the Empire of Japan (which is a thing that really happened ). At turns they are allies and enemies with Japanese deserters, Russian revolutionaries, and samurai holdovers from the Tokugawa era, all of whom are after the gold for their own reasons. Really, it's a great story and you'll learn a lot about the Ainu in the process.

    That said ... well, yes, I do watch a lot of anime, and I'm constantly on the lookout for really good ones. Which means I'm sifting through a lot of dreck which DOES use those tired old cliches. Tropes are tropes for a reason; audiences understand them, people know how to draw them, and people like to see them. Stuff like So I'm a spider, so what? about a schoolgirl who dies and is reincarnated as a spider in a fantasy world to be a random encounter.

    I don't really expect the anime of LOTR to be anything like Dragonball Z; more likely it will resemble Sword of the Stranger . But that doesn't mean I won't have some cheap jokes at their expense. I kid because I love

    I haven't seen 'sexy shelob' in Shadow of War but I don't think it's as alien to the source material as made out. Ungoliant was originally a spirit. She 'took the form' of a giant spider, yes, but that doesn't mean she couldn't change into other forms as well. Shape-changing is a thing in the Silmarillion. Sauron changes into both a werewolf and a vampire at different points in the story. Luthien takes on the guise of a vampire herself. King Finrod changed himself , Beren, and the rest of his party into orcs in order to infiltrate enemy territory. Even with Gandalf, we're led to believe that he isn't really an old man; that's simply the form he takes when dealing with humans, since his role is as an advisor and counselor, not a general or conqueror in his own right.

    It's not a stretch to believe that Ungoliant could change shape. And if she could, and Shelob is her daughter, then Shelob could potentially inherit the ability as well, just as Luthien inherited many of her mother's magical abilities.

    And well ... if you read some of the description of her fight with Sam where she gets on top of him .. um, yeah. Read in the right frame of mine there does seem like some rule 34 potential there. To say no more. Though I really, really hope that doesn't make it into any licensed adaptation of the work.

    Respectfully,

    Brian P.
    Last edited by pendell; 2021-06-11 at 08:30 AM.
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    Default Re: War of the Rohirrim: LOTR prequel anime

    Quote Originally Posted by Sapphire Guard View Post
    ...huh. Wasn't that the one that had

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    Celebrimbor use the ring to hide from Sauron in Mount Doom, which in the book was the best way to indicate your location to him?


    Saw some Shadow of Mordor on Youtube, seemed like a good game.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
    It was pretty decent if you could get past the massacring of Middle Earth lore. Shadow of War gave up any pretense of being a LOTR game in favor of "Hey, wouldn't it be cool to command an army of orcs?"
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    At least within the plot of the story they hand wave that aside by saying that having made the one right gives him the understanding to hide from Sauron


    But yea in general Shadow of Morder is fine, it lacks some of the depth in it's combat system that similar games like the Arkham series had but it fit the mold of Good Fan Fiction to me. That second game though...
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    Default Re: War of the Rohirrim: LOTR prequel anime

    Quote Originally Posted by GloatingSwine View Post
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    (Actually, it's awesome)
    ...

    Actually, if we get a Shelob-focused story that kind of design could work. A lot better than hot lady Shelob.

    There are honestly few stories that wouldn't benefit from having a giant spideresque monster instead of an attractive human. So why are companies trying to remove the giant spideresque monsters from stories which already have them?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

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