enchanting a monks body

[Raishoiken]

Haven't peeked into the books for awhile so i don't really remember the answer to this question:

Is one allowed to enchant a monk's unarmed strike as if it was a manufactured weapon RAW style?

[Thurbane]

I believe Necklace of Natural Attacks (SS) is generally the go-to option.

I think Kensai (CW) allows you to as well.

There's definitely others as well, just struggling to recall off the top of my head.

[StSword]

Be a warforged.

Their composite plating can be enchanted as per armor, and the Battlefist component is explicitly both enchantable and usable with a monk's unarmed strikes.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

This build has a significant number of ways to magically enhance (not enchant; I don't think using charm spells will do much) a monk's unarmed strikes. And remember, the Beast Strike feat grants slam damage on unarmed strikes, which includes any magical damage added to them, meaning you can double-up on a lot of those.

[Troacctid]

You can't enchant your unarmed strike directly unless you're a kensai. You need to use a necklace of natural weapons.

[mattie_p]

Necklace of Natural Weapons has been mentioned, but due to the source (Savage Species) may not be available. Also, it has a variable cost depending on how many natural weapons it enhances (1 weapon = same as single manufactured weapon, 6 weapons = 6x cost). I'll follow up with less-preferred items.

Bracers of Striking (Magic of Faerun p155). Same as the Necklace, but for some reason counts as a double weapon, so costs twice as much as the necklace. Also a 3.0 source.

Amulet of Mighty Fists (SRD/DMG). Only explicitly permits enhancement bonuses, (+1 to +5), not special abilities. Also costs 3x the base price of a manufactured weapon with the same bonuses. Affects unarmed strikes and all natural weapons.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

There's nothing exempting unarmed strikes from being "crafted" as masterwork weapons, as the crafting rules themselves say nothing of the sort and they are listed with the other weapon types. The monk entry also specifically calls them out as being considered manufactured weapons.

So if you spend 300 gp upon character creation to upgrade your unarmed strike as a masterwork weapon (or 100 gp if you can make the Craft check), that would allow you to magically enhance it when you can afford to do so (both in gp and in downtime). Consider it to be the costs of hiring someone to train you properly to hone yourself into a literal living weapon of the finest caliber. Also a nutritionist and the cost of a fantastic diet.

[Gruftzwerg]

There's nothing exempting unarmed strikes from being "crafted" as masterwork weapons, as the crafting rules themselves say nothing of the sort and they are listed with the other weapon types. The monk entry also specifically calls them out as being considered manufactured weapons.

So if you spend 300 gp upon character creation to upgrade your unarmed strike as a masterwork weapon (or 100 gp if you can make the Craft check), that would allow you to magically enhance it when you can afford to do so (both in gp and in downtime). Consider it to be the costs of hiring someone to train you properly to hone yourself into a literal living weapon of the finest caliber. Also a nutritionist and the cost of a fantastic diet.

Sorry but it doesn't work the way you describe it.

Monk's unarmed strike gives you the permission to treat em as either manufactured or natural weapon for the purpose of "spells & effects":

A monk’s unarmed strike is treated both as a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.

The crafting process is neither a spell nor an effect. The end product (the magic item) bears the effect (and not the crafting process itself). As such, your monk's unarmed strike ability still doesn't qualify for a crafting ability as legal target.

Monk's unarmed strike can profit from spells (e.g. Magic Weapon, Magic Fang..) or effects (e.g. the effects of the magic items mentioned in this thread so far, or ability effects that target manufactured/natural weapons like in the chase of Kensai and Warshaper).

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Is "effect" defined anywhere in the Core glossaries? Because I don't see it, with the sole exception of spell effects on page 175 of the PHB. Unfortunately, if you hold that that's the only way "effect" is defined, and that only spells can have effects, that breaks so much of the game (in the manner of, "the rules no longer function") it's not even funny.

Do you have any sources for "the effects of crafting are not effects"?

[edit] Plus, it does make sense that someone who focuses on crafting their body into an extremely deadly weapon, even for a martial arts master, could actually, y'know, do that. People do it IRL, after all.

[Troacctid]

There's nothing exempting unarmed strikes from being "crafted" as masterwork weapons, as the crafting rules themselves say nothing of the sort and they are listed with the other weapon types. The monk entry also specifically calls them out as being considered manufactured weapons.

So if you spend 300 gp upon character creation to upgrade your unarmed strike as a masterwork weapon (or 100 gp if you can make the Craft check), that would allow you to magically enhance it when you can afford to do so (both in gp and in downtime). Consider it to be the costs of hiring someone to train you properly to hone yourself into a literal living weapon of the finest caliber. Also a nutritionist and the cost of a fantastic diet.

Unfortunately this does not work. The Craft skill can only be used to make items, not creatures. Creatures are made with...well, let's not get into that, but suffice it to say they can't be masterwork.

[Gruftzwerg]

Is "effect" defined anywhere in the Core glossaries? Because I don't see it, with the sole exception of spell effects on page 175 of the PHB. Unfortunately, if you hold that that's the only way "effect" is defined, and that only spells can have effects, that breaks so much of the game (in the manner of, "the rules no longer function") it's not even funny.

Do you have any sources for "the effects of crafting are not effects"?

[edit] Plus, it does make sense that someone who focuses on crafting their body into an extremely deadly weapon, even for a martial arts master, could actually, y'know, do that. People do it IRL, after all.

Since "effect" is nof specifically redefined in 3.5, imho it is up to you to showchase that a crafting process is an effect in general English definition. Since I'm not a native speaker I just flew over the wiki page for craft and couldn't find any mention of the word effect or something related. Can you prove your assumption about "effect" and crafting?

I'm arguing that crafting is a process, which may involve effects, but the entire crafting "process" is not an effect itself.

What makes sense in real life and how these things are implemented into 3.5 are two different things.
But even then I would be arguing that you ain't crafting your body. Maybe metaphorically but not really. In reality these people are training their bodies, maybe using special substances to enhance their abilities or even develop special abilities (again with training here). Unless you try to do illegal human experiments, you don't craft human bodies.

[Troacctid]

Also, if you need to treat a monk's fists as manufactured weapons, you DEFINITELY can't make them masterwork, since weapons can only be made masterwork during the original crafting process, not after the fact—and the original crafting process took place long before you were a monk.

Inb4 warforged

[mattie_p]

I know there's some wonky stuff in BoEF, but pretty sure Craft (Baby-making) isn't the skill they add to the list....

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Unfortunately this does not work. The Craft skill can only be used to make items, not creatures.

Except for all the creatures that can. Plus, monk weapons specifically count as manufactured for any effect that they are subject to, so even if you rule that it doesn't apply to most living creatures, "most living creatures" doesn't apply to monks.

Since "effect" is not specifically redefined in 3.5, imho it is up to you to showchase that a crafting process is an effect in general English definition. Since I'm not a native speaker I just flew over the wiki page for craft and couldn't find any mention of the word effect or something related. Can you prove your assumption about "effect" and crafting?

I'm arguing that crafting is a process, which may involve effects, but the entire crafting "process" is not an effect itself.

What makes sense in real life and how these things are implemented into 3.5 are two different things.
But even then I would be arguing that you ain't crafting your body. Maybe metaphorically but not really. In reality these people are training their bodies, maybe using special substances to enhance their abilities or even develop special abilities (again with training here). Unless you try to do illegal human experiments, you don't craft human bodies.

Since "effect" is only defined in the RAW as being from spells, we have to use the regular English definition.

Definition of "effect" (source):

Definition of effect (Entry 1 of 2)
1: something that inevitably follows an antecedent (such as a cause or agent)
2a: a distinctive impression
the color gives the effect of being warm
b: the creation of a desired impression
her tears were purely for effect
c(1): something designed to produce a distinctive or desired impression —usually used in plural
(2)effects plural : SPECIAL EFFECTS
3: the quality or state of being operative : OPERATION
the law goes into effect next week
— see also TAKE EFFECT
4: power to bring about a result : INFLUENCE
the content itself of television … is therefore less important than its effect
— Current Biography
— see also TAKE EFFECT
5: effects plural : movable property : GOODS
personal effects
6: an outward sign : APPEARANCE
7: ACCOMPLISHMENT, FULFILLMENT
8a: PURPORT, INTENT
b: basic meaning : ESSENCE
in effect
: in substance : VIRTUALLY
the … committee agreed to what was in effect a reduction in the hourly wage
— Current Biography
to the effect
: with the meaning
issued a statement to the effect that he would resign
effect verb
effected; effecting; effects
Definition of effect (Entry 2 of 2)
transitive verb

1: to cause to come into being
2a: to bring about often by surmounting obstacles : ACCOMPLISH
effect a settlement of a dispute
b: to put into operation
the duty of the legislature to effect the will of the citizens

Several of those can apply in this situation, and the Craft skill definitely has effects on what's being Crafted.

Also, if you need to treat a monk's fists as manufactured weapons, you DEFINITELY can't make them masterwork, since weapons can only be made masterwork during the original crafting process, not after the fact—and the original crafting process took place long before you were a monk.

Inb4 warforged

If you'll notice what I said earlier:

There's nothing exempting unarmed strikes from being "crafted" as masterwork weapons, as the crafting rules themselves say nothing of the sort and they are listed with the other weapon types. The monk entry also specifically calls them out as being considered manufactured weapons.

So if you spend 300 gp upon character creation to upgrade your unarmed strike as a masterwork weapon (or 100 gp if you can make the Craft check), that would allow you to magically enhance it when you can afford to do so (both in gp and in downtime). Consider it to be the costs of hiring someone to train you properly to hone yourself into a literal living weapon of the finest caliber. Also a nutritionist and the cost of a fantastic diet.

That, and it's entirely possible to use Craft on something that's already been created, since reforging is definitely a thing, as is breaking something apart, fixing and improving stuff that's less than optimal, and putting it back together again.

This could even work with a living creature's body, since it's definitely possible to take someone relatively out of shape and turn them into a lean, mean, fighting machine. Look at Chuck Norris, for instance. He was very much this. And if you don't think Bruce Lee's body was masterwork, we'll just have to disagree on that entirely. And shapeshifting effects can enable this, too, since you can use them to induce Craft checks in the target, as can Crafting a body and using body swaps, or flesh to stone + fabricate + stone to flesh. Retraining and rebuilding are also things that can happen, as is using a thought bottle prior to becoming an elan, or any number of other ways.

This is simply streamlining the process a little, with nothing in RAW saying you can't do it (and several ways that say you can).

[Troacctid]

That, and it's entirely possible to use Craft on something that's already been created, since reforging is definitely a thing, as is breaking something apart, fixing and improving stuff that's less than optimal, and putting it back together again.

It's explicitly not possible to do this in the rules. They go out of their way to say no, you can't add the masterwork quality to a weapon after it is created, you have to do it as part of its original crafting. In as many words, even.

[Thurbane]

This build has a significant number of ways to magically enhance (not enchant; I don't think using charm spells will do much) a monk's unarmed strikes. And remember, the Beast Strike feat grants slam damage on unarmed strikes, which includes any magical damage added to them, meaning you can double-up on a lot of those.

I suspect the reason so many people use "enchant" interchangeably with "enhance" comes from earlier editions, where it was generally called "enchanting" an item.

In 2E, the Enchantment school encompassed both mind-affecting spells, and spells used to make magic items (from memory).

[Kitsuneymg]

If your GM is okay with pathfinder, get handwraps. They were tossed into one of the last books for 1e specifically to fix the long standing issues with monks and expensive IUS enhancement via amulet of natural attacks. It covers two hands because you can TWF with IUS in Pathfinder. But you may find other uses in 3.5. Not sure if they would apply to kicks even though 3.5 has some sort of “you only have 1 unarmed strike” text in places. Again, ask your GM.

People say “enchant” because that’s a general word that means “to imbue with magic in some form.” It’s a usage of the word that is much older than D&D and will likely long outlive it.

[Thurbane]

If your GM is okay with pathfinder, get handwraps. They were tossed into one of the last books for 1e specifically to fix the long standing issues with monks and expensive IUS enhancement via amulet of natural attacks. It covers two hands because you can TWF with IUS in Pathfinder. But you may find other uses in 3.5. Not sure if they would apply to kicks even though 3.5 has some sort of “you only have 1 unarmed strike” text in places. Again, ask your GM.

People say “enchant” because that’s a general word that means “to imbue with magic in some form.” It’s a usage of the word that is much older than D&D and will likely long outlive it.

That reminds me: I've seen arguments made that the Ward Cestus (A&EG p.10) can be used as part of a monk's unarmed strikes, and if masterwork, can obviously have magical enhancements.

[DMVerdandi]

Honestly, this late in the game, it's kind of a moot thing. A couple of things to consider.

1. Battle Dancer
If you aren't doing something that is solely in the realm of monks, it's a much simpler class really, and has a nice wild flavor with it, plus its proficient in all simple weapons, so if you want to enchant some gauntlets, go ahead. It also gets native pounce so it's not forced to play the stop and go game, but they don't have as any support by comparison. But it gives you reasons to stay there, and native pounce makes it better than 90% of martial classes. You can also get it earlier by dipping barbarian at first. Something monk also cannot do.


2. Tashalatora with ANY psionic class.
Suddenly, you are FAR FAR better than any straight 20 monk. Psionic powers are far more potent and cool, and are how monk was supposed to be, even since BECMI. This is actually like, best monk. And depending on how you invest, you get better and better forms. Monk1/Ardent19 is fantastic and you can just pick it up and play.
Monk1/Psychic warrior19 is absolutely beastly, and gets powers and fighter and psionic feats. Among the better gishes in the game.


Monk1/Spell to power erudite 19[Dragon erudite] with carmindine monk is the best monk that could ever monk, because the Erudite is the best class in the game. Just steal whatever powers you want, and make one of the best lil gishes you can. Spells like greater mighty whallop are just goofy, and wraithstrike, celerity, mixed with powers like hustle, and schism... Christ it's so good. IT'S SO GOOD.


Monk1/Psionic Artificer19 does the same thing, but with items, and even less begging.
I never even thought about that before this thread, but yeah, artificer qualifies for tashalatora if it's a psionic artificer. This and the STP erudite are just the cream of the crop.
You are a punchy dude with the powers of a god.

Like bro said, you can also be a warforged with this and just be an adamantine psychic killbot.
Then you can DEFINITELY enchant your fists too.


3.Any other good martial with superior unarmed strike and ward cestus.
Hell unarmed swordsage with this is great, and theoretically, you can do the unarmed spellcasting sword sage.






So really, enchanting monk weapons with money is probably one of the last things you need to be thinking about insofar as being valuable to the team and retaining value. More often it's using either a monk replacement class, or tashalatora to create monk as it was supposed to me...delicious psionic mouthsmacker.

Most of those can just enchant themselves for the price of a power being cast anyway.

[Darg]

As has already been mentioned is that Kensai allows you to enhance your UAS. What has not been mentioned is that you only need 1 level to actually benefit from it. Kensai explicitly makes it a magic weapon and retroactively a masterwork weapon at that (all magic weapons must be of masterwork quality).

[Psyren]

If your GM is okay with pathfinder, get handwraps. They were tossed into one of the last books for 1e specifically to fix the long standing issues with monks and expensive IUS enhancement via amulet of natural attacks. It covers two hands because you can TWF with IUS in Pathfinder. But you may find other uses in 3.5. Not sure if they would apply to kicks even though 3.5 has some sort of “you only have 1 unarmed strike” text in places. Again, ask your GM.

AoMF actually got errataed to not be that expensive, now it's the same cost as enhancing two weapons instead of having a surcharge like in 3.5. The problem though is that you still give up your neck slot to wear one, which means no ANA on a melee character unless your GM allows custom items/combinations. So Handwraps were developed to avoid that drawback.

[Vaern]

Gauntlets are listed on the weapons table as being an unarmed attack, and their description says that they're considered unarmed attacks except that they allow your unarmed strikes to deal lethal damage. Get some magic gauntlets and you're good to go.

If your GM is okay with pathfinder, get handwraps. They were tossed into one of the last books for 1e specifically to fix the long standing issues with monks and expensive IUS enhancement via amulet of natural attacks. It covers two hands because you can TWF with IUS in Pathfinder. But you may find other uses in 3.5. Not sure if they would apply to kicks even though 3.5 has some sort of “you only have 1 unarmed strike” text in places. Again, ask your GM.

It's been forever since I've played D&D Online, but I recall that hands also using handwraps to let monks enhance their unarmed strikes.

People say “enchant” because that’s a general word that means “to imbue with magic in some form.” It’s a usage of the word that is much older than D&D and will likely long outlive it.

Not to mention, a lot of high fantasy games like the whole Elder Scrolls series and World of Warcraft all have an enchanting skull that lets you enchant your equipment in a way that is similar to enhancing your gear in D&D. No need to get nitpicky about people using the two interchangeably :p

[Darg]

Gauntlets are listed on the weapons table as being an unarmed attack, and their description says that they're considered unarmed attacks except that they allow your unarmed strikes to deal lethal damage. Get some magic gauntlets and you're good to go.

This is the easy way. Sure, you can equip some battleglove or something, but nothing sounds better than the crunch of a naked fist against a jawbone. As long as you aren't using a spiked gauntlet then enhancing a monk's UAS with an enhanced gauntlet is definitely doable. There is a "but"; you no longer have the freedom to use any part of your body to benefit from it. Although if we go strict RAW then it would technically still apply.

[Psyren]

The common argument against monk gauntlets that I've seen is that they are not a special monk weapon, i.e. no flurry. And while they are considered "an unarmed attack" that isn't technically the same as saying they are unarmed strike.

[Vaern]

And while they are considered "an unarmed attack" that isn't technically the same as saying they are unarmed strike.

It is, actually. An unarmed attack is defined as an attack made without a weapon in hand. An unarmed strike is defined as the successful result of an unarmed attack. If you hit with an unarmed attack using a gauntlet, the result is an unarmed strike. The two tend to be used interchangeably in some places throughout the books.
Besides, the description of the gauntlet saying that it allows its user to deal lethal damage rather than nonlethal damage with their unarmed strikes fairly solidly indicates that you are still making unarmed strikes with the gauntlet.

[Thurbane]

This point has been argued since the inception of 3E - I doubt we'll reach a consensus.

I know people don't put a lot of stock in the Official FAQ, but here's what it says there:

Can a monk use a +5 gauntlet in an unarmed attack,
gaining all of her class benefits as well as the +5 bonus on
attack rolls and damage rolls from the gauntlet?
Gauntlets are indeed a weapon. If a monk uses any weapon
not listed as a special monk weapon, she does not gain her
better attack rate. She would, however, gain the increased
damage for unarmed attacks.

[Darg]

Nope. Never going to put stock into the FAQ. Many of the entries explicitly go against any kind of reading of the rules so it feels like they try to errata instead of have the rules make sense when we only need a ruling.

The PHB is pretty explicit that the gauntlet is making unarmed strikes. Ruling that it doesn't is quite out there. It's as stupid as a monk not being proficient with their UAS.

When using flurry of blows, a monk may attack only with unarmed strikes or with special monk weapons (kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, shuriken, and siangham).

Gauntlets make unarmed strikes. Because of this, monk increased unarmed damage applies to gauntlets too.

The argument boils down to whether or not UAS and gauntlets are separate things when unarmed strikes are mentioned. The fact is, as written they are interchangeable as the text does not make a distinction between them.

unarmed attack: A melee attack made with no weapon in hand.

unarmed strike: A successful blow, typically dealing nonlethal damage, from a character attacking without weapons. A monk can deal lethal damage with an unarmed strike, but others deal nonlethal damage.

It's a leap to say gauntlets aren't able to benefit from monk abilities. They occupy the same grey area that UAS does: being a weapon and yet not and they both make unarmed strikes. So yes, gauntlets are indeed a weapon, but flurry of blows doesn't care about that because you attack with unarmed strikes.

[Vaern]

This point has been argued since the inception of 3E - I doubt we'll reach a consensus.

I know people don't put a lot of stock in the Official FAQ, but here's what it says there:

The FAQ's rulings are inconsistent with itself. The monk keeps increased unarmed strike damage when using gauntlets because they're still an unarmed strike, and by extension they should be able to flurry with them.
Flurry requires that the monk be attacking with special monk weapons or unarmed strikes; the fact that an attack with a gauntlet is an unarmed strike precludes the necessity for it to be a special monk weapon.

[Psyren]

The fact is, as written they are interchangeable as the text does not make a distinction between them.

Then why do they repeatedly have separate entries? That looks like a distinction in the text to me. If they wanted there to be no distinction, they wouldn't have made one.

Claws and slams are also "attacks made with no weapon in hand" - but they aren't "typically nonlethal," which is why they aren't unarmed strikes.

For the record I'm with Thurbane, the clunky wording means consensus is impossible. I'll stick with PF's handwraps and cheaper AoMF.

[Darg]

Then why do they repeatedly have separate entries? That looks like a distinction in the text to me. If they wanted there to be no distinction, they wouldn't have made one.

Claws and slams are also "attacks made with no weapon in hand" - but they aren't "typically nonlethal," which is why they aren't unarmed strikes.

For the record I'm with Thurbane, the clunky wording means consensus is impossible. I'll stick with PF's handwraps and cheaper AoMF.

The difference is that one is armed and the other is not. If we want to be semantic armor spikes aren't "in hand" either. They have made them distinct weapons, but they have not made the distinction between the type of attack. The "typically nonlethal" references several things: the -4 penalty to make nonlethal lethal and improved unarmed strike as the obvious ones.

You are right, consensus isn't going to had. But the case is strong for both sides and sometimes people don't want to use outside sources nor the amulet.