OOTS #1236 - The Discussion Thread

[Peelee]

Judging from the conversation between the invisible entities when the paladins were kidnapped, it's almost as if she knows that the end result of what she's doing will likely result in the end of the world, but she *wants* that for some reason? I'm at a loss to explain why that would be, though.

I've heard this from a lot of people but never understood it. It always sounded to me like resigned pessimism.

[Windscion]

As I don’t play a lot of D and D, can someone please explain how a rogue uses suggestion or otherwise hypnotized Elan? I thought a spell was needed. Did I miss a magic item Sirini had? Or is this possibly the other invisible being we saw at the end of the last book?

Rogues have use magic device as a class skill. And any high level character has plenty of money for magic items, especially lower level ones.

[Metastachydium]

Damn. That was one of the nicest things Belkar's ever said in the comic!

[Psyren]

Welp, at least we're getting some action now.

Ain't that the truth.

As I don’t play a lot of D and D, can someone please explain how a rogue uses suggestion or otherwise hypnotized Elan? I thought a spell was needed. Did I miss a magic item Sirini had? Or is this possibly the other invisible being we saw at the end of the last book?

You're assuming this is Serini. Judging by the aura I'm more inclined to believe this is her orange-voiced lackey, who we already know can turn invisible too.

I'm going to have to disagree with you there Elan. Clearly you are not aware of Lindsey Stirling.

To be fair, you need some Perform (Dance) in there too, which an animated lute is similarly ill-equipped for

[Debatra]

You're assuming this is Serini. Judging by the aura I'm more inclined to believe this is her orange-voiced lackey, who we already know can turn invisible too.

Magic items have been shown to have their own auras, independent from who's using them.

That said though, since both the auras around the lute and Elan's head were the same color, I think it's safe to say this is orange-speech-balloon. That, or maybe OSB crafted some of the items Serini is using.

(For whatever it's worth, her wand of what I presume to be Teleport, or maybe even just Dimension Door, had a yellow aura.

[Metastachydium]

You're assuming this is Serini. Judging by the aura I'm more inclined to believe this is her orange-voiced lackey, who we already know can turn invisible too.

To be fair, we don't know that. I've always assumed that Serini just tapped 'em with a wand of Invisibility (it didn't even have to be Greater Invisibility!) which is trivially easy to do as a very-very sub-epic UMD-user. (Also, when we last saw Serini, she was carrying a wand with a yellow casting aura; it's not like her magic items are colour -coded for our convenience.)

[Athas]

First of all I'm laughing at all the prediction threads. A flying lute I doubt was in anyones predictions.

I'm going to have to disagree with you there Elan. Clearly you are not aware of Lindsey Stirling.

I know I hadn't heard of her. Also what did I just watch?

Damn. That was one of the nicest things Belkar's ever said in the comic!

Love Belkar's growth.

[EmperorSarda]

I know I hadn't heard of her. Also what did I just watch?

Your next step in witnessing great music.

[SlashDash]

One thing about the strip, I love the party going after Elan. I kind of wish since we're going down memory lane that Roy would also mention that part about him abandoning Elan in the forest with the whole Sam thing.

It's obviously not a "plot hole" or anything, but would have been nice to see Roy acknowledging his own growth after his talk with the Archon about it.

[Athas]

Your next step in witnessing great music.

This is the instrumental music I listen to most often. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T12ygsp9Mvg

[danielxcutter]

Yeah, Serini's going to wipe the floor with the Order. The IFCC using one of their chances might prevent V from being knocked out, but if she realizes what's causing it I'd put good money of her just killing V as soon as it wears off.

Well, at least my prediction of Roy screaming in frustration as he sees Team Evil exiting the dungeon through the portal because now their best chance for beating Team Evil's gone for good all because Serini was too scared to fight against Xykon is going to be wrong.

And before somebody complains about me describing her like that, I don't see a better explanation. Maybe worded a bit differently, but ultimately she'd rather cross her fingers and hope a bunch of PCs capable of taking on Xykon and the Snarl miraculously pop up rather than so much as give the Order a chance despite them going out of their way to *not* have the Gate blown up here now.

[RMS Oceanic]

And before somebody complains about me describing her like that, I don't see a better explanation. Maybe worded a bit differently, but ultimately she'd rather cross her fingers and hope a bunch of PCs capable of taking on Xykon and the Snarl miraculously pop up rather than so much as give the Order a chance despite them going out of their way to *not* have the Gate blown up here now.

Depending on how thorough her recon has been, she may be aware that two of the order have destroyed gates in the past, and by her standards with O-Chul words will not change her belief they might do it again. And until we're at that crisis point, where the only two options are Xykon wins or the gate is smashed, you won't see her mind changed on that front.

[KorvinStarmast]

Heh, didn't see that one coming, but in retrospect it makes sense that Serini targets the mental midget and does something both sneaky and clever.

Excuse me, what? This is not the Snarl, the swirls are yellow, not purple, and there should be nobody in this tunnel, so what?

Serini designed and built this whole gate defense scheme. She knows it inside and out. She know how to get in and how to get out.

I'm going to have to disagree with you there Elan. Clearly you are not aware of Lindsey Stirling.

Or Stevie Wonder - on some of his early albums he did the vocals and all (or most of) the instrumentals (recorded multiple tracks which were then mixed). (IIRC, Higher Ground was one of the hits where he did that, but my trivia memory may be faulty)

V has been trying to reach Serini via Sending for about a year now. She's also aware of the other gates failing.

She probably has been scrying on them for some time.

Very likely.

No, if the order loses to Xykon, the gods destroy the entire universe. Period.
Loki didn't say they won't destroy the world, he said let's the give the mortals one more chance and if it comes down to it, they can destroy the world in 10 minutes before the Snarl escapes.

Basically there are 3 options as far as she is concerned:
1) The last gate is destroyed. Snarl destroys the universe
2) The gods take actions to prevent that - this world is destroyed.
3) Xykon takes over the gate and uses it to rule the world but doesn't destroy it. He doesn't put the gods in danger so they do nothing. It's a very cruel time but better off than #1 and #2

Therefore, she's assuming she's likely to be killed one way or the other but as she told the paladins at least option #3 means a lot of people won't die.

Of course there's option #4 which is what will happen: Party defeats Xykon and Redcloak is convinced to get the Dark One to seal the gates permanently. But Serini doesn't consider option. She neither knows what Durkon does nor does she have much faith in the party that is responsible for the loss of 3 gates already.

Thanks for that summary. Bookmarking that post.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

I’m glad that we ended the last strip with Elan’s thoughts because seeing his reactions here is priceless. And it’ll be interesting to have what looks to be our first real fight scene since the end of last book.

[Aedilred]

The Order is comprised of:

Roy, Haley, Elan, V, Durkon, and Belkar; plus
Minrah, Mr. Scruffy, Bloodfeast, and Blackwing round things out.

10 beings.

Durkon and Minrah went off on their own to talk to Redcloak; Belkar wandered off in the pyramid to do his own thing, and again at the Godsmoot.

So that's 70-30.

At least that's my take on it.

My assumption was that it was a straight-up joke with the proportions determined at random, rather than a calculation done in his head: i.e. the random wandering off no longer constitutes a majority of such events but it's still a lot higher than it should be.

[danielxcutter]

I'm going to have to disagree with you there Elan. Clearly you are not aware of Lindsey Stirling.

Ah, a fellow man of culture! How'd you come across her?

Depending on how thorough her recon has been, she may be aware that two of the order have destroyed gates in the past, and by her standards with O-Chul words will not change her belief they might do it again. And until we're at that crisis point, where the only two options are Xykon wins or the gate is smashed, you won't see her mind changed on that front.

Yeah, but I'm guessing either she's delusional or she was like pre-Utterly Dwarfed Belkar and skipped all the dialogue, because I have no idea how she assumes a bunch of adventurers capable of fighting the Snarl, which killed two gods in one round of combat even with how strong it is against them, are going to spontaneously manifest when Xykon already has control of the entire multiverse. Not to mention that Shojo mentioned that the Scribblers feared the gods would likely unmake the world anyways so that's a pretty big blow against her point too.

Like seriously, Lien basically said they're not going to destroy the Gate and Serini basically said "Whatever, I'm going to mindwipe you all anyways!" Jeez!

[Fish]

The real question is what the band is going to be called?
• Lute Zeppelin
• Deathcab for Lutey
• Strings of Elan
• Lutey and the Blowfish

[RMS Oceanic]

Yeah, but I'm guessing either she's delusional or she was like pre-Utterly Dwarfed Belkar and skipped all the dialogue, because I have no idea how she assumes a bunch of adventurers capable of fighting the Snarl, which killed two gods in one round of combat even with how strong it is against them, are going to spontaneously manifest when Xykon already has control of the entire multiverse. Not to mention that Shojo mentioned that the Scribblers feared the gods would likely unmake the world anyways so that's a pretty big blow against her point too.

Like seriously, Lien basically said they're not going to destroy the Gate and Serini basically said "Whatever, I'm going to mindwipe you all anyways!" Jeez!

Words mean nothing to her at this point, only actions. Their past actions condemn them in her eyes. And the fact the other gates are lost means she's basically operating on the base assumption "they can't beat Xykon". She'd probably like that, a little vengence if nothing else, but she's resigned to him defeating all challengers and is making sure they don't blow up the planet in the process. We suspect she's wrong, and we're confident she doesn't know the stakes of his victory, but from those base assumptions she's acting sensibly.

[elros]

That doesn't work out, because V also wandered off if Girard's Pyramid, so that logic would have it be 60/40.

Its not that, it's the odds that they went off due to being enchanted, which relates exactly to what Durkon had just said.

I am also struggling to understand the 70/30 split, and why Roy is "feeling pretty great" about it. Any other explanations?

Also, I clearly do not think like a rogue, because "stealing the lute and using suggestion on Elan to run off" never entered my mind. And I love that Serini used "making bad creative choices" to get Elan to follow the lute- she definitely understands Bards!

[MReav]

I thought "Wait... is Elan being possessed by Banjo?"

Then the Serini comments came in and I'm like "Oh... that makes so much more sense and isn't a Deus Ex Machina."

[danielxcutter]

Words mean nothing to her at this point, only actions. Their past actions condemn them in her eyes. And the fact the other gates are lost means she's basically operating on the base assumption "they can't beat Xykon". She'd probably like that, a little vengence if nothing else, but she's resigned to him defeating all challengers and is making sure they don't blow up the planet in the process. We suspect she's wrong, and we're confident she doesn't know the stakes of his victory, but from those base assumptions she's acting sensibly.

I mean if her point was "either the gods unmake the world or the Snarl eats everyone", or if the Snarl was actually just a generic doomsday device rather than being stronger than the entire multiverse, I'd actually think it was valid.

The problem is that unless Soon or Shojo lied about something, the Scribblers knew what the Snarl could do and what the gods might. I'm going with "skipped the dialogue" theory for now, but I think she's still being a crotchety old woman who won't listen to sense.

[Lemarc]

I am also struggling to understand the 70/30 split, and why Roy is "feeling pretty great" about it. Any other explanations?

It's just betting odds. It's a figure of speech. He means it's probable (but not too probable) that whenever a PC wanders off nowadays it's because they've been enchanted and not just because they're a lousy team member, which is a good thing because they've had trouble with the latter in the past. I'm very confident there's not anything more to read into it.

[dancrilis]

I am also struggling to understand the 70/30 split, and why Roy is "feeling pretty great" about it. Any other explanations?

I think it is fairly standard - if you asked Roy back in the day the odds of one of the party messing up a plan due to their own nonsense or due to enemy action he would have given it 70% (to take a figure at random) their own nonsense, now he is down to 30% on that and he is happy with the difference.

[Mike Havran]

Ahh, and so it begins

[KorvinStarmast]

Elan’s thoughts

Isn't that an oxymoron? (Cue reference to Belkar's observation on Elan, INT, and dump stats)

• Lutey and the Blowfish

One vote for this one.

[danielxcutter]

Isn't that an oxymoron? (Cue reference to Belkar's observation on Elan, INT, and dump stats)

I mean Elan has been having lots of character development.

One vote for this one.

I only got the zeppelin reference, what are the others?

[One Skunk Todd]

The real question is what the band is going to be called?
• Lute Zeppelin
• Deathcab for Lutey
• Strings of Elan
• Lutey and the Blowfish

He'll just go solo and call himself Lute-acris.

[Yendor]

Gonna throw out the possibility that this mysterious orange figure is not acting on Serini's orders. The Order are due to gain an important ally, per the Giant's comments in the last book, and Serini's certainly not in that mood. Maybe this person believes in the Order here.

[Peelee]

I mean if her point was "either the gods unmake the world or the Snarl eats everyone", or if the Snarl was actually just a generic doomsday device rather than being stronger than the entire multiverse, I'd actually think it was valid.

The problem is that unless Soon or Shojo lied about something, the Scribblers knew what the Snarl could do and what the gods might. I'm going with "skipped the dialogue" theory for now, but I think she's still being a crotchety old woman who won't listen to sense.

Crotchety old woman? Definitely. Won't listen to sense? Eh, not so much. She simply doesn't believe they won't blow the Gate, and has a pretty big data point to support that belief. She's wrong, but characters are allowed to be wrong. If she let the paladins talk enough (or let's the Order talk enough), I do think she'd be persuaded. She doesn't seem inclined to let them, though, since she's starting off on the "you destroyed your Gate, all other Gates have fallen pretty quickly, and now you're here. HMMMM I WONDER WHY" perspective.

[EmperorSarda]

This is the instrumental music I listen to most often. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T12ygsp9Mvg

Thank you for sharing!

Ah, a fellow man of culture! How'd you come across her?

It's been so long I don't remember. I did get to be part of the crowd when she was recording her Phantom of the Opera video.

Yeah, but I'm guessing either she's delusional or she was like pre-Utterly Dwarfed Belkar and skipped all the dialogue

Assuming that she knows that the Order destroyed Girard's Gate to prevent it from falling into Xykon's hands; I think she is operating on giving no credibility to the Paladins and OotS. The Paladins may say now that it is not an option, but if their oaths required it, she thinks they still might do it.

She doesn't believe that they can take out Xykon. So the only way to stop him to destroy the gate. Destroying the gate will cause the gods to destroy the world. She doesn't want that.

So she bets on some people being miserable during Xykons rule and that it will end sooner or later.

Nor does Xykon even think he is a threat to the multiverse. He just wants to rule the world.