OOTS #1236 - The Discussion Thread

[Doug Lampert]

I'm also glad Serini has made her move and we get some action.

It's a bit disappointing though that all the strips dedicated to explain how the portal trap works and setting it as the perfect ambush, with the order waiting for it to go off, seem to have been wasted without an obvious pay off.

They may still use a version of this later in the book.

If and when they're united with the Paladins and their other new ally, they can all try it when X is tired from doing six dungeons in one day or whatever.

At some point they will need to fight X, and the portal trap will still be there in a different tunnel when that day comes.

The Portal Trap's purpose was to make the Order think they had an advantage, so they would stand around in one place Readying over and over to then be caught by Serini, instead of doing literally anything else with that prep time. So even if Serini's actions ruined their chances of getting the drop on Team Evil, I wouldn't agree that the trap did nothing.

That too.

[arimareiji]

I don't think Elan got Suggestioned since we didn't hear it, but it's absolutely plausible that he'd fail the save on it even if his Will save wasn't crappy to begin with. Telepathy, maybe?

And I like the idea even more since it suggests Serini's friend/ally Orange Voice (though it looks more brown here) is indeed a dragon after all (specifically, brass). Plus a dragon that loves to talk would be a perfect companion for someone the Scribblers knew as a chatterbox, and they have a sleep-gas^* breath weapon.
_{* - actually a "cone of sleep", but I'm fond of my possible-mistaken memory that at one point it was sleep gas}

It's almost too perfect for Serini and Orange Voice incapacitating the Sticklers without a fight, after which they wake up next to the paladins and we can finally start resolving the Serini-doesn't-know-Team-Evil-can't-get-a-gate-because-she-wasn't-at-the-Godsmoot problem. Seriously, it fits so well that it makes me suspect it must be wrong.

_{Edit: Formatting}

[KorvinStarmast]

Seriously, it fits so well that it makes me suspect it must be wrong.

Yeah.
I just walked through the strip again, and I like the small gag in panel 6 about a solo career. Missed that the first time through.

[arimareiji]

Yeah.
I just walked through the strip again, and I like the small gag in panel 6 about a solo career. Missed that the first time through.

This comic actually makes me wonder if the Giant has some minor unresolved beef with someone who left a band too soon. (^_^)°

(Susanna Hoffs, looking at you (^_~) )

Edit: Or maybe he just finds it funny that other people do.

[JSSheridan]

Thanks Giant!

[Debatra]

For a minute there, I thought Elan's line about creative decisions was referring to the idea that it would be more dramatically-appropriate for him to recklessly run after his lute rather than advising it about its solo career.

[KorvinStarmast]

Edit: Or maybe he just finds it funny that other people do.

FWIW: My younger brother's band ran into that problem (man, that's been over 30 years ago ...) The 'one who left to start his own band' actually got married and started a family (a different kind of band, I suppose). In a way there's some humor involved. {and the leaver found out that he could not afford studio time by himself also ...}

My favorite 'more famous' version was Bill Wyman's Monkey Grip album.
(And, ahem, Stone Alone) (Wyman was the original bass player for the Rolling Stones)

[Hurkyl]

I thought "Wait... is Elan being possessed by Banjo?"

Then the Serini comments came in and I'm like "Oh... that makes so much more sense and isn't a Deus Ex Machina."

If it makes you feel better, my first reaction was "Ack, is the comic actually going to validate my crackpot theory that Banjo is a fifth quiddity?!?!" before I figured out it's probably Serini.

[Quizatzhaderac]

This comic actually makes me wonder if the Giant has some minor unresolved beef with someone who left a band too soon. (^_^)°

(Susanna Hoffs, looking at you (^_~) )

Edit: Or maybe he just finds it funny that other people do.

As someone with zero music playing experience, it seems like there is no non-dramatic way to leave a band; although that's probably because I only hear the most dramatic stories, dramatized stroies, or parodies of dramatized stories.

[Robots]

Ah, a new update! And the game is afoot! (No pun about halfling feet intended, mind you.)

I knew that 1235 seemed to be lulling us into an idle state. And thus, Serini begins her scheme.

[WanderingMist]

Roy is on record saying that destroying Dorukan's gate was the correct decision even knowing that it was one of the pillars of reality, he destroyed Girard's gate solely to avoid a fight.

No, Roy destroyed it because they had no way to keep it out of Tarquin's hands once they left the continent, and unlike Nale, Tarquin would see right through the double-bluff. Tarquin has an army. It would be suicide to try and fight him.

Deathcab for Cutie
Kings of Leon
Hootie and the Blowfish

Did you know there is a band called "Strings of Elegance" which is what I assumed Stings of Elan was?

[Shining Wrath]

How long until Lutey becomes a deity on the order of Banjo, and provides a fifth quiddity?

[KorvinStarmast]

How long until Lutey becomes a deity on the order of Banjo, and provides a fifth quiddity?

Infinity, for this 'verse. For another verse, who knows?

[Ruck]

The real question is what the band is going to be called?
• Lute Zeppelin
• Deathcab for Lutey
• Strings of Elan
• Lutey and the Blowfish

"Strings of Elan" is pretty inspired.

As someone with zero music playing experience, it seems like there is no non-dramatic way to leave a band; although that's probably because I only hear the most dramatic stories, dramatized stories, or parodies of dramatized stories.

R.E.M. was pretty undramatic. Bill Berry left in 1996 after having an aneurysm on tour; even though the entire band had previously agreed that they would only go on with all four of them, Berry insisted the others continue. Then in 2011 they just mutually retired the band after 30 years together.

[Jay R]

It's a bit disappointing though that all the strips dedicated to explain how the portal trap works and setting it as the perfect ambush, with the order waiting for it to go off, seem to have been wasted without an obvious pay off.

Setting up things that we all see coming in advance has never been the narrative approach of this strip.

The Order has been in the cave since December, and one has to wonder what all these intermediate strips are good for, if they're finally rushing into the cave anyway. It's very little in-time comic time, and I'm sure the compilation book will read with good rhythm; but waiting for it to refresh online is paaaainful, at least when some build-up doesn't lead anywhere, not directly

I will not guess whether the build-up leads anywhere until we see where the strip goes.

If you predicted that Durkon would become a vampire,
and if you knew in advance that Vaarsuvius would sell (or at least rent out) his/her soul,
and if you were sure before he showed up that Elan's father was running the Empire of Blood,
and if you were just waiting for Shojo to explain faking character growth to Belkar,
then maybe you know enough to be sure that the build-up doesn't lead anywhere.

But if, like me, you have been surprised time after time, then wait to see what happens before you critique it for not happening.

Sit back and enjoy the ride. Rich is driving.

[Psychronia]

The team has come a long way.

[Ruck]

Setting up things that we all see coming in advance has never been the narrative approach of this strip.



I will not guess whether the build-up leads anywhere until we see where the strip goes.

If you predicted that Durkon would become a vampire,
and if you knew in advance that Vaarsuvius would sell (or at least rent out) his/her soul,
and if you were sure before he showed up that Elan's father was running the Empire of Blood,
and if you were just waiting for Shojo to explain faking character growth to Belkar,
then maybe you know enough to be sure that the build-up doesn't lead anywhere.

But if, like me, you have been surprised time after time, then wait to see what happens before you critique it for not happening.

Sit back and enjoy the ride. Rich is driving.

I'll also add that the trap was set 35 strips into the final book, so if you were expecting the trap to be used in the climactic fight of the whole series, you may have been off on your expectations of pacing, even after Elan more or less told you it was too soon.

[CountDVB]

Serini could be perfectly well versed in the lore and still disagree with Dorukan. The stance that the destruction of ANY gate is reckless regardless of how many still stand has merit.

True though given how Dorukan and Lirian made the Gates to be with, perhaps they know something that can be done with them that the others don't understand besides the basic "don't let others get it".

Honestly, Serini is focusing on Xykon and not taking into account Redcloak, which is probably one of her blindspots.

[TRH]

Speaking of what Scribblers know about Team Evil, did we ever learn how Soon knew not only about liches and phylacteries, but also specifically that Redcloak used Xykon's as his holy symbol? Because I don't see how anyone in the Sapphire Guard could have known that at that point, especially not a member who'd been dead since before Xykon even became a lich.

[Wraithfighter]

Speaking of what Scribblers know about Team Evil, did we ever learn how Soon knew not only about liches and phylacteries, but also specifically that Redcloak used Xykon's as his holy symbol? Because I don't see how anyone in the Sapphire Guard could have known that at that point, especially not a member who'd been dead since before Xykon even became a lich.

Might be an epic level Paladin thing, sensing that a hideously corrupted soul was inside the Goblin's holy symbol?

Could also be a sort of "You Just Told Me" ploy: State your suspicion like it's an absolute fact, and let them confirm it for you. Risky, but can work with a strong Sense Motive. And the phylactery would likely give serious Evil vibes to Detect Evil.

[mjasghar]

That's not even my problem with her. She doesn't know about TDO.

My problem is that unless she skipped all the lore parts, she has to know the Snarl is capable of slaughtering gods effortlessly, and that the gods are willing to pull the plug on the world rather than risk that even without that knowledge.

Assuming she is at sapphire guard level of Lore then no she doesn’t know that. She would think it’s still the 2nd world.

[danielxcutter]

Assuming she is at sapphire guard level of Lore then no she doesn’t know that. She would think it’s still the 2nd world.

Uh, that was the entire concern of the Scribblers besides the Snarl itself? Also, if Soon knew that the Snarl could kill gods then I have no idea why any of the others wouldn’t.

[137beth]

Oh hey, I somehow didn't see there was a new page when I checked this morning!

So, did Serini want them to all follow Elan, or not? She probably had a contingency for both possibilities.

[danielxcutter]

Oh hey, I somehow didn't see there was a new page when I checked this morning!

So, did Serini want them to all follow Elan, or not? She probably had a contingency for both possibilities.

I think she probably knows them well enough that they wouldn’t leave Elan. But she’d probably be an even bigger fool than I think she is if she didn’t prepare for it at all.

[JT]

I'm waiting to see whether V is also following after Elan. They didn't comment on whether Elan should be chased, nor are they visible in any panel following, or preparing to follow, with the rest of the party.

[Wraithfighter]

I'm waiting to see whether V is also following after Elan. They didn't comment on whether Elan should be chased, nor are they visible in any panel following, or preparing to follow, with the rest of the party.

...mmm. Could just be the panel being too crowded and so V was left out for art reasons... but I could also totally see this being the IFCC expending their second, probably shorter, lien on V's soul/body. They're the most powerful and flexible member of the party, and a lot of Serini's tricks would be easy for V to counter.

[a_flemish_guy]

oh elan, awarenes about the plot and what ought to be important in that very moment doesn't give any bonusses to a will-save apparantly

edit: but I'm really glad you tried

[Kamunami]

It's a super tiny detail, but I love how when Elan says "On the other hand," he literally swaps hands.

[danielxcutter]

It's a super tiny detail, but I love how when Elan says "On the other hand," he literally swaps hands.

*facepalms* Oh my god.

[TuringTest]

Setting up things that we all see coming in advance has never been the narrative approach of this strip.

Oh I know, I knew there was no chance of the ambush working as suggested and leading to the final confrontation with Xykon. (There was a chance that RedCloak appeared first and they had to confront him first instead of Xykon, which may make sense at this point in the story).

But if, like me, you have been surprised time after time, then wait to see what happens before you critique it for not happening.

Sit back and enjoy the ride. Rich is driving.

I will, I've certainly not been disappointed in the long run I was just expresing disillusion that we won't see how the magic trap resolves anytime soon; now it may take months before the struggle with Serini ends and we get back to the exit of the cave.