New PC, what to make?

[jaappleton]

My Clockwork Soul died last night.

It’s OK, it was heroic.

Here’s the deal for the next character:

Level 9
Any race / lineage
All UA available (but must be the most recent version)
All of Tasha’s available
Additionally, my DM is allowing, at no cost, the ability to change the damage types of spells.

As far as starting items:
I get 5 points.
A Very Rare is 5, a Rare is 3, and an Uncommon is 1. So ai could get five Uncommons, or one Very Rare, or any combination.

Current party composition:

Eladrin Scout Rogue - Archer

Half Elf Vengeance Paladin 5 / Shadow Sorc 4 (Greatsword & GWM)

Triton Alchemist Artificer

Mark of Shadow Elf Swords Bard 9

So….. Really only one full caster. The Alchemist is kinda support / utility. Swords Bard, Rogue, and Sorcadin are all damage focused but single target. Bard, Sorcadin and Alchemist can all heal.

I was thinking maybe straight Paladin? That’s never a wrong answer.

But the ability to change spell damage types has me excited about a Tempest Cleric with a Wand of Lightning Bolts, along with a Ravnica background to net me Wall of Fire now becoming Wall of Lightning and coupling that with the Tempest ability to push enemies when they suffer Lightning damage.

What shenanigans can I get into with this amount of leeway in character creation?

[Kessel]

Beautiful problem to have, too many good choices. I think you're right about Cleric and damage choice, but Druid could also be fun for the same reason.

[Temperjoke]

Well, it looks like the group has a lack of AoE types of damage and field control, based on your descriptions.

Reborn Lineage (also known as "Gasp! Someone decided to use my corpse as their new ride!")

Tempest Cleric (9)

Equipment: Wand of Lightning Bolts, Mithral Plate Armor, Circlet of Blasting. The armor and circlet don't require attunement, so you can equip other items later without losing one of them. The armor has no strength requirement, and doesn't impose stealth disadvantages. The circlet lets you cast Scorching Ray once a day, but you can change the damage to lightning to match your class abilities.

I'll let you pick the background you'd like, it sounds like you already have some ideas. The reborn lineage gives you a lot of advantages, especially for picking whatever background you'd like, as my idea for it in this case is another soul has invaded your old body and is using it as a host.

[jaappleton]

Tempest 6 has no limit of once per turn.

So if I cast Spiritual Weapon and chance it to Lightning, I have a bonus action once per round where I can potentially knock an enemy away from an ally in trouble.

Wall of Fire - Lightning shenanigans. Heck, Spirit Guardians could now knock enemies away.

Ooooh this has some serious potential.

I believe there’s an item, Amulet of the Devout, which increases my save DC and nets me one more additional use of channel divinity. Available in Uncommon, Rare and VRare variants.

[Bobthewizard]

Tempest cleric seems like a fun idea.

If you could change the damage type on a wand of fireballs I'd with that. It's easier to hit more targets. If not, take the wand of lightning bolts.

If you can change the damage for magic missile, then you'd have guaranteed movement. No save, no to hit roll. Thunderwave and Shatter as lightning become good uses of first and second level spell slots.

You might want to consider 2 levels of evoker for sculpt spells. So Tempest cleric 7, Evoker 2. Then you could sculpt a lightning fireball and push all of the enemies around.

In addition to the wand, I like the uncommon amulet of the devout and then maybe winged boots or a broom of flying.

[da newt]

half baked ideas:

Could you grab a wand of magic missiles / fire ball and change damage type to lighting?

Could you dip Warlock for EB lightning shenanigans w/ Agonizing blast and Repelling blast stacked on top?

So much potential YEAT ...

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Why a Wand of Lightning Bolts over a Wand of Fireballs if you can swap the damage type freely?

Tempest Cleric would absolutely be a fantastic choice here. Make it a High Half-Elf for Booming Blade, since none of the Ravnica backgrounds give any weapon-attack cantrips. Spend all your item points on an Illusionist's Bracers so you can cast that twice each turn. I wouldn't even bother with Wall of Fire, as Spirit Guardians can accomplish the same thing and also makes them move slower, moves with you, and doesn't affect allies, so it would work better to keep opponents at bay.

[Eldariel]

Druid seems awesome. Go Shepherd, profit. You get frontline power, team buffing (Unicorn or Bear), damage spells, healing, and excellent summons. Nothing but awesome. Add Mark of Sentinel for Counterspell and Death Ward, both of which are insane for a support caster especially in a party like this (the party might natively lack them). Life 1/Shephere 8 is not bad id you wanna downtime heal (Life Goodberries are insane).

[MrStabby]

If you want to mess with tempest clerics and damage types with Thunderous strike I suggest spike growth. A ranger cleric won't be able to cover this till character level 11 so your options would be druid/cleric or warlock (dao)/cleric which could have you starting with this.

Sadly (or possibly fortunately) spike growth doesn't seem accessible on any other means like racial or background...

Still, both of these offer plenty of other nice choices. Heat metal for no save, thunder damage for example, or moonbeam to turn after turn blast your enemies away from you, or entangle (and at higher levels plant growth) so that other damage you do actually costs a lot of movement.

[Corvino]

I'm completely on board with the need for a support caster in that Party composition, especially if the Bard is more about damage and getting stuck in to Melee.

Cleric does seem like a very strong choice, any subclass could work. A Caster Druid could also work well.

Given that you recently lost a Clockwork Soul Sorcerer - if you're in the mood for something similarly Arcane but with solid support options, how about Mark of Healing Halfling Wizard? Abjuration synergizes with Healing Halfling because Lesser/Greater Restoration recharge the Arcane Ward (which can prevent incoming damage), and Counterspell bonuses can also prevent incoming damage.

You don't necessarily need to abuse the ability to change up damage type, although it definitely mitigates weaknesses for some races and subclasses. Dragonborn with (great) Fire Resistance are no longer tied to a commonly resisted breath weapon, for instance. Forge Cleric is similar.

[jaappleton]

I rolled my stats. I’ve got 18, 17, 15.

Thinking that 15 gets tossed into Strength to satisfy all armor requirements.

I’m going Mark of the Sentinel Human. Solid bonus spells, and shield once per day is a nice bonus on top of that.

I need some advice on Feats.

I can put my +2 into Wisdom and +1 into Constitution for 20/18, respectively.

But if I put my +2 into Con and +1 in Wisdom, I can take Resilient Constitution and some sort of +1 Wisdom feat and end up with Con save proficiency and…. Whatever other benefits from the +1 Wisdom feat.

Any thoughts as to what to do?

Of course, going 18+2 Wisdom, 17+1 Con for 20/18 and instead going Warcaster and some other feat, maybe Alert to help go first and take out an enemy or two at the start of battle has a lot of merit as well.

Any and all thoughts welcome here.

[Mastikator]

Since you said any thoughts are welcome... Alternative idea: wizard, dump intelligence. Pick up headband of intellect (uncommon), and +2 Arcane Grimoire (rare) and winged boots (uncommon).
Mix up blasting, crowd control and support.

Background: Noble, your backstory is that you're a rich playboy who was given a headband of intellect by his rich family and used that to coast through magic academy. Upon graduation he was gifted the grimoire and commanded to adventure and prove his family name.

Race: Mountain Dwarf (for medium armor).
Feats: Heavily Armored and Heavy Armor Master
Skills: pick whatever your team mates don't have

[ff7hero]

I rolled my stats. I’ve got 18, 17, 15.

Thinking that 15 gets tossed into Strength to satisfy all armor requirements.

I’m going Mark of the Sentinel Human. Solid bonus spells, and shield once per day is a nice bonus on top of that.

I need some advice on Feats.

I can put my +2 into Wisdom and +1 into Constitution for 20/18, respectively.

But if I put my +2 into Con and +1 in Wisdom, I can take Resilient Constitution and some sort of +1 Wisdom feat and end up with Con save proficiency and…. Whatever other benefits from the +1 Wisdom feat.

Any thoughts as to what to do?

Of course, going 18+2 Wisdom, 17+1 Con for 20/18 and instead going Warcaster and some other feat, maybe Alert to help go first and take out an enemy or two at the start of battle has a lot of merit as well.

Any and all thoughts welcome here.

Res (Con) and Fey Touched seems like a strong choice.

[KorvinStarmast]

Monk, Way of Mercy. Tasha's custom lineage origin rules. Feat: Resilient, Wis. Feat: skill expert or Fey Touched.

I rolled my stats. I’ve got 18, 17, 15.

That gives you 20 Dex out of the gate. Res Wis means 18 Wis out of the gate.
Skill Expert gives you 16 Con and expertise in a skill, I'd suggest Athletics or Stealth, but you do you.
Last ASI boosts Wis to 20.
Save Proficiencies: Wis, Dex, Str.

a Rare is 3, and an Uncommon is 1

Bracers of Defense (rare), Cloak of Protection(uncommon)
Your AC is 23, your Saves all get +1.

That's my suggestion.

[jaappleton]

Monk, Way of Mercy. Tasha's custom lineage origin rules. Feat: Resilient, Wis. Feat: skill expert or Fey Touched.

That gives you 20 Dex out of the gate. Res Wis means 18 Wis out of the gate.
Skill Expert gives you 16 Con and expertise in a skill, I'd suggest Athletics or Stealth, but you do you.
Last ASI boosts Wis to 20.
Save Proficiencies: Wis, Dex, Str.

Bracers of Defense (rare), Cloak of Protection(uncommon)
Your AC is 23, your Saves all get +1.

That's my suggestion.

If my party were lacking single target damage, I’d absolutely go Mercy Monk.

ESPECIALLY because my DM takes requests for what items should drop and the Gloves of Soul Catching (or Soul Snaring? Whatever it’s called) are Legendary. I tried lobbying to start with one Legendary and I got the possibility of VRare.

So if this new Tempest Cleric bites the dust in a few levels and I can finesse a Legendary out of the DM, I’m absolutely going Monk and just demolishing enemies.

[ff7hero]

Monk, Way of Mercy. Tasha's custom lineage origin rules. Feat: Resilient, Wis. Feat: skill expert or Fey Touched.

That gives you 20 Dex out of the gate. Res Wis means 18 Wis out of the gate.
Skill Expert gives you 16 Con and expertise in a skill, I'd suggest Athletics or Stealth, but you do you.
Last ASI boosts Wis to 20.
Save Proficiencies: Wis, Dex, Str.

Bracers of Defense (rare), Cloak of Protection(uncommon)
Your AC is 23, your Saves all get +1.

That's my suggestion.

Res (Wis) runs the risk of becoming redundant when they get Diamond Soul.

Fey Touched on the other hand gives the Monk Hex, which is amazing.

[jaappleton]

Res (Wis) runs the risk of becoming redundant when they get Diamond Soul.

Fey Touched on the other hand gives the Monk Hex, which is amazing.

Only once per day, and no spell slots to cast it with otherwise.

Though that coupled with Hexborn gives to uses. Still not amazing but a solid damage boost throughout a fight, but I don’t love how it’s competitive with the already bonus action heavy Monk.

[ClassB2Carcin]

Order Cleric 7/Stars Druid 2, alignment matching either your Paladin or Rogue.

Magic Item: Candle of Invocation of your alignment.

First turn: Action - Light Candle.

You, and any PC also matching the alignment of the Candle, now have 75% of the benefit of the Foresight spell. Do any other of the proposed builds here add that amount of power to the party?

Then, using the 6th level Order Cleric ability, cast Bless as a bonus action, blessing the Paladin and Rogue and another PC. If you cast it at first level, you don’t spend a slot, thanks to the Candle.

Using the first level order ability, order the Rogue or Paladin to attack with their reaction.

Second turn - take the form of the Archer as a bonus action to make an attack, cast Longstrider on the Rogue or Paladin. Or alternatively use the Order Cleric’s Channel Divinity and spam Shield of Faith on the Paladin to get another attack. The GWM Paladin is blessed and possibly has advantage, and you giving them an extra attack by spamming first level buffs as much as you want should turn them into a Cuisinart of Death. Same for the rogue.

The rest of the fight: play like a normal Cleric, but with the option of spamming first-level casts of Guiding Bolt, Command, Healing Word, Thunderwave, Inflict Wounds, Faerie Fire as much as you want. Oh, and as many free casts of Absorb Elements as you need. You can keep your higher level slots for bigger fights. You probably won’t have to worry about taking Warcaster or Resilient CON to maintain concentration as you’ll have as advantage on saving throws anyway, but if you do really need need to maintain concentration you could take the starry form of the Dragon. If you need to go healbot, you can take the form of the Chalice and spam Healing Word and heal two party members at once, for no spell slots expended. And with two levels of Druid, you can summon a familiar for one hour for scouting, if needed.

After the combat ends, spam Goodberry until the minute is up and then extinguish the Candle. That should give you enough berries to heal up whatever damage the party took, so you will have a lot of out-of-combat healing.

Rinse and repeat the next 239 combats.

Your DM has given you the choice of any VR and the Candle is the most broken VR item, especially given you can choose its alignment and that of your PC to give your party the maximum boost from it, and use it to repeatedly gain the benefit of the Order Cleric’s first level feature to up your party’s DPR.

An alternative build would be doing Order Cleric 3/Glamour Bard 6 to combo the Order Cleric’s Charm from their Channel Divinity with the Glamor Bard’s Mantle of majesty. As any enemy charmed by your Channel Divinity auto-fails the save against the Command from Mantle of Majesty. But the Cleric/Druid combo with the Candle is more powerful, because of the sheer number of first level spells that can be spammed.

[Sigreid]

An evoker wizard would be beyond broken with free damage type swapping on spells.

[jaappleton]

Order Cleric 7/Stars Druid 2, alignment matching either your Paladin or Rogue.

Magic Item: Candle of Invocation of your alignment.

First turn: Action - Light Candle.

You, and any PC also matching the alignment of the Candle, now have 75% of the benefit of the Foresight spell. Do any other of the proposed builds here add that amount of power to the party?

Then, using the 6th level Order Cleric ability, cast Bless as a bonus action, blessing the Paladin and Rogue and another PC. If you cast it at first level, you don’t spend a slot, thanks to the Candle.

Using the first level order ability, order the Rogue or Paladin to attack with their reaction.

Second turn - take the form of the Archer as a bonus action to make an attack, cast Longstrider on the Rogue or Paladin. Or alternatively use the Order Cleric’s Channel Divinity and spam Shield of Faith on the Paladin to get another attack. The GWM Paladin is blessed and possibly has advantage, and you giving them an extra attack by spamming first level buffs as much as you want should turn them into a Cuisinart of Death. Same for the rogue.

The rest of the fight: play like a normal Cleric, but with the option of spamming first-level casts of Guiding Bolt, Command, Healing Word, Thunderwave, Inflict Wounds, Faerie Fire as much as you want. Oh, and as many free casts of Absorb Elements as you need. You can keep your higher level slots for bigger fights. You probably won’t have to worry about taking Warcaster or Resilient CON to maintain concentration as you’ll have as advantage on saving throws anyway, but if you do really need need to maintain concentration you could take the starry form of the Dragon. If you need to go healbot, you can take the form of the Chalice and spam Healing Word and heal two party members at once, for no spell slots expended. And with two levels of Druid, you can summon a familiar for one hour for scouting, if needed.

After the combat ends, spam Goodberry until the minute is up and then extinguish the Candle. That should give you enough berries to heal up whatever damage the party took, so you will have a lot of out-of-combat healing.

Rinse and repeat the next 239 combats.

Your DM has given you the choice of any VR and the Candle is the most broken VR item, especially given you can choose its alignment and that of your PC to give your party the maximum boost from it, and use it to repeatedly gain the benefit of the Order Cleric’s first level feature to up your party’s DPR.

An alternative build would be doing Order Cleric 3/Glamour Bard 6 to combo the Order Cleric’s Charm from their Channel Divinity with the Glamor Bard’s Mantle of majesty. As any enemy charmed by your Channel Divinity auto-fails the save against the Command from Mantle of Majesty. But the Cleric/Druid combo with the Candle is more powerful, because of the sheer number of first level spells that can be spammed.

I have been playing 5E since it’s release.

I have read optimization forums since day one, combing through for tíos and tricks, gimmick builds, theory crafted ways to even kill Tiamat in one turn.

And not once in those years have I ever come across a build as singularly broken and, in all sincerity, as vile as this one.

This is a level of outright depravity I strive to achieve, using a singular item which is undoubtedly written off and completely overlooked.

I love it. I don’t know if I have the…. shall we say, the guts to actually show up at the table with this, because this is a whole ‘nother level of “Oh my goodness WHAT DID YOU MAKE?!”, but I’d be outright lying if I said I didn’t absolutely admire the heck out of this.

[KorvinStarmast]

Res (Wis) runs the risk of becoming redundant when they get Diamond Soul. Fey Touched on the other hand gives the Monk Hex, which is amazing.

I never assume that a game goes past level 13. If so, waiting five levels to get that is a choice jj can make. You suggestion isn't a bad one, it just doesn't match up with my expectations for a campaign.

@ClassB2Carcin
That's sick, well done. *applause*

[Gignere]

I have been playing 5E since it’s release.

I have read optimization forums since day one, combing through for tíos and tricks, gimmick builds, theory crafted ways to even kill Tiamat in one turn.

And not once in those years have I ever come across a build as singularly broken and, in all sincerity, as vile as this one.

This is a level of outright depravity I strive to achieve, using a singular item which is undoubtedly written off and completely overlooked.

I love it. I don’t know if I have the…. shall we say, the guts to actually show up at the table with this, because this is a whole ‘nother level of “Oh my goodness WHAT DID YOU MAKE?!”, but I’d be outright lying if I said I didn’t absolutely admire the heck out of this.

It’s because there is no guarantee with a magic item to complete the build. It’s kind of like those Mizzium Apparatus builds yes they are all kind of broken but when it’s reliant on a single magic item to work a DM could just easily say the item doesn’t exist or it just stops working.

Also the shield of faith combo with bonus action attack doesn’t work because shield of faith requires another bonus action.

Yes if I can guarantee access to the candle that is one hell of a build.

[Nifft]

Order Cleric 7/Stars Druid 2, alignment matching either your Paladin or Rogue.

Magic Item: Candle of Invocation of your alignment.

First turn: Action - Light Candle.

You, and any PC also matching the alignment of the Candle, now have 75% of the benefit of the Foresight spell. Do any other of the proposed builds here add that amount of power to the party?

Then, using the 6th level Order Cleric ability, cast Bless as a bonus action, blessing the Paladin and Rogue and another PC. If you cast it at first level, you don’t spend a slot, thanks to the Candle.

Using the first level order ability, order the Rogue or Paladin to attack with their reaction.

Second turn - take the form of the Archer as a bonus action to make an attack, cast Longstrider on the Rogue or Paladin. Or alternatively use the Order Cleric’s Channel Divinity and spam Shield of Faith on the Paladin to get another attack. The GWM Paladin is blessed and possibly has advantage, and you giving them an extra attack by spamming first level buffs as much as you want should turn them into a Cuisinart of Death. Same for the rogue.

The rest of the fight: play like a normal Cleric, but with the option of spamming first-level casts of Guiding Bolt, Command, Healing Word, Thunderwave, Inflict Wounds, Faerie Fire as much as you want. Oh, and as many free casts of Absorb Elements as you need. You can keep your higher level slots for bigger fights. You probably won’t have to worry about taking Warcaster or Resilient CON to maintain concentration as you’ll have as advantage on saving throws anyway, but if you do really need need to maintain concentration you could take the starry form of the Dragon. If you need to go healbot, you can take the form of the Chalice and spam Healing Word and heal two party members at once, for no spell slots expended. And with two levels of Druid, you can summon a familiar for one hour for scouting, if needed.

After the combat ends, spam Goodberry until the minute is up and then extinguish the Candle. That should give you enough berries to heal up whatever damage the party took, so you will have a lot of out-of-combat healing.

Rinse and repeat the next 239 combats.

Your DM has given you the choice of any VR and the Candle is the most broken VR item, especially given you can choose its alignment and that of your PC to give your party the maximum boost from it, and use it to repeatedly gain the benefit of the Order Cleric’s first level feature to up your party’s DPR.

An alternative build would be doing Order Cleric 3/Glamour Bard 6 to combo the Order Cleric’s Charm from their Channel Divinity with the Glamor Bard’s Mantle of majesty. As any enemy charmed by your Channel Divinity auto-fails the save against the Command from Mantle of Majesty. But the Cleric/Druid combo with the Candle is more powerful, because of the sheer number of first level spells that can be spammed.

These are beautiful.

It's great to know that Candle of Invocation has remained a mistake in this edition.

[ClassB2Carcin]

The Order Cleric level 1 feature is that an ally can take an attack with their reaction. You’re confusing it with the War Cleric.

Also the shield of faith combo with bonus action attack doesn’t work because shield of faith requires another bonus action.

[Gignere]

The Order Cleric level 1 feature is that an ally can take an attack with their reaction. You’re confusing it with the War Cleric.

No I misread it, I thought it was bonus action shoot star Druid ability and than cast shield of faith but that’s not what it said after rereading.

[ClassB2Carcin]

Thanks for the compliment. Maybe after playing it for a few sessions, your DM will beg you to retire that PC in exchange for letting you have a Vorpal Weapon or Holy Avenger on a new PC…

I have been playing 5E since it’s release.

I have read optimization forums since day one, combing through for tíos and tricks, gimmick builds, theory crafted ways to even kill Tiamat in one turn.

And not once in those years have I ever come across a build as singularly broken and, in all sincerity, as vile as this one.

This is a level of outright depravity I strive to achieve, using a singular item which is undoubtedly written off and completely overlooked.

I love it. I don’t know if I have the…. shall we say, the guts to actually show up at the table with this, because this is a whole ‘nother level of “Oh my goodness WHAT DID YOU MAKE?!”, but I’d be outright lying if I said I didn’t absolutely admire the heck out of this.

[jaappleton]

Honest question for everyone:

What would you say is the more powerful build?

1. The Candle of Invocation build

2. The Tempest Cleric with the ability to change any spell damage to Lightning

I feel the Invocation build helps the whole party shine brighter, assuming the alignment matches, but isn't directly doing a ton of damage itself. Tempest Cleric is doing big chunks of damage by itself, but isn't really helping any party member be better at their job.

In a party setting, I feel the Tempest could easily be seen by some of the other players as, "Dude... Kinda stepping on my toes here" (Not saying that's how they'd feel, but I can see WHY they could feel that way)

Candle of Invocation build is more... I would make everyone better at their job.

[MrStabby]

Honest question for everyone:

What would you say is the more powerful build?

1. The Candle of Invocation build

2. The Tempest Cleric with the ability to change any spell damage to Lightning

I feel the Invocation build helps the whole party shine brighter, assuming the alignment matches, but isn't directly doing a ton of damage itself. Tempest Cleric is doing big chunks of damage by itself, but isn't really helping any party member be better at their job.

In a party setting, I feel the Tempest could easily be seen by some of the other players as, "Dude... Kinda stepping on my toes here" (Not saying that's how they'd feel, but I can see WHY they could feel that way)

Candle of Invocation build is more... I would make everyone better at their job.

I find that buffing is effective, but buffing focussed characters are underwhelming.

When you buff, there are just more points of failure. You might not flunk a wisdom save, but you can look a bit silly if everyone else does... and sometimes if anyone else does.

It doesn't even need to be an enemy action; say you want to buff the paladin but the paladin is out of weapon range. Or the rogue doesn't have line of sight.

With spells like bless it is a bit less of an issue due to number of targets, but in general, buffing has the problem that your contribution can be obviate by another PC flunking a save.

I think the Tempest Cleric might be the better option, however you want to build it.

[Bobthewizard]

The candle build is probably more powerful, but candles can be stolen and it will run out eventually.

The tempest cleric looks like more fun to me, changing damage to lightning or thunder and mixing up spells to get different dimensions and durations. Lightning Spirit Guardians filling a 15' radius sphere with lightning that pushes people away if you want to sounds like a blast.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I'd go with the Tempest Cleric, use Illusionist's Bracers with Booming Blade and War Caster. Being able to shove opponents around constantly is just way too good to pass up.