A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2
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  1. - Top - End - #31
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    May 2016

    Default Re: What breaks if you remove half-level scaling?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boci View Post
    But, it does to other people. Changing some fundamental aspect of the system can be fun. Its not for everyone and is tricky to pull off, but that doesn't make it wrong, or not worthwhile if that is what you and your group enjoy. There can be any number of reasons why you're altering one system instead of switching to another, and some of them are valid reasons.
    Then I repeat my earlier question: what are you proposing is the valid reason for attempting this, that would make it worth the work? What benefit results from doing this?

  2. - Top - End - #32
    Titan in the Playground
     
    DrowGuy

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    Jul 2008

    Default Re: What breaks if you remove half-level scaling?

    Quote Originally Posted by Beoric View Post
    Then I repeat my earlier question: what are you proposing is the valid reason for attempting this, that would make it worth the work? What benefit results from doing this?
    Because it can be fun to rework a core assumption of a familiar system. I don't know how better I can explain that to you.
    "It doesn't matter how much you struggle or strive,
    You'll never get out of life alive,
    So please kill yourself and save this land,
    And your last mission is to spread my command,"

    Slightly adapted quote from X-Fusion, Please Kill Yourself

  3. - Top - End - #33
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    RedKnightGirl

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    Default Re: What breaks if you remove half-level scaling?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boci View Post
    Because it can be fun to rework a core assumption of a familiar system. I don't know how better I can explain that to you.
    Ok, but why? You are saying what you want to do, and you are saying it's fun. But, what about it is fun? Is the act of actually doing all the work the fun part, or do you have specific goals you are trying to accomplish, such as abolishing the minion and elite rules so you can (like 5e) just use higher or lower level mobs to fill that role? If that's the case.., why? If it's not, then what is the end goal here other than "just to do it"?

  4. - Top - End - #34
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    DrowGuy

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    Jul 2008

    Default Re: What breaks if you remove half-level scaling?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuptup View Post
    Ok, but why? You are saying what you want to do, and you are saying it's fun. But, what about it is fun? Is the act of actually doing all the work the fun part, or do you have specific goals you are trying to accomplish, such as abolishing the minion and elite rules so you can (like 5e) just use higher or lower level mobs to fill that role? If that's the case.., why? If it's not, then what is the end goal here other than "just to do it"?
    There's always a goal to writing pages of houserules, but sometimes the goal could be as simple to rework a core assumption of the system, to play with something recognisable, but with one core feature inverted. Making the houserules themselves will typically be fun, it unlikely someone would writes multiple pages if they don't enjoy that act in of themselves, but very few people will want to make multiples pages of houserules if they never plan to play with them. Houserules create variety, and variety is the spice of life.
    "It doesn't matter how much you struggle or strive,
    You'll never get out of life alive,
    So please kill yourself and save this land,
    And your last mission is to spread my command,"

    Slightly adapted quote from X-Fusion, Please Kill Yourself

  5. - Top - End - #35
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    RedKnightGirl

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    Default Re: What breaks if you remove half-level scaling?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boci View Post
    There's always a goal to writing pages of houserules, but sometimes the goal could be as simple to rework a core assumption of the system, to play with something recognisable, but with one core feature inverted. Making the houserules themselves will typically be fun, it unlikely someone would writes multiple pages if they don't enjoy that act in of themselves, but very few people will want to make multiples pages of houserules if they never plan to play with them. Houserules create variety, and variety is the spice of life.
    I guess what I'm not understanding is, what purpose does this houserule that you are suggesting serve. You can already do the same thing with the existing rules in the game. Most houserules are conceptualized around a need or desire to add something to a system. But, your proposed one doesn't really add anything and instead just ignores the already existing system for accomplishing the same task in favor or writing new rules that serve the purpose to a lesser effect.

    If your goal is JUST to write down rules for the sake of seeing if you can, then that's fine, go for it! But, unless those rules have an actual useful reason to be used instead of the existing ones, they shouldn't really be used except just "See, I told you it'd work. I put all that effort in to make a variant of this thing that already exists."




    Back to OP, did you figure out what you wanted to do for your specific case? Or, do you need some more help? :D

  6. - Top - End - #36
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    DrowGuy

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    Jul 2008

    Default Re: What breaks if you remove half-level scaling?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuptup View Post
    I guess what I'm not understanding is, what purpose does this houserule that you are suggesting serve. You can already do the same thing with the existing rules in the game. Most houserules are conceptualized around a need or desire to add something to a system. But, your proposed one doesn't really add anything and instead just ignores the already existing system for accomplishing the same task in favor or writing new rules that serve the purpose to a lesser effect.

    If your goal is JUST to write down rules for the sake of seeing if you can, then that's fine, go for it! But, unless those rules have an actual useful reason to be used instead of the existing ones, they shouldn't really be used except just "See, I told you it'd work. I put all that effort in to make a variant of this thing that already exists."
    Even if the group finds it fun? I dunno how much clearer I can be. Its fun for some groups to see if they can rewrite aspects of a system with houserules, and part of that process (seeing if they can), involves actually using the houserules to see how they operate in practice vs. on paper.

    And yes these houserules would add something: a different feel. Which is a valid reason to come up houserules for.
    "It doesn't matter how much you struggle or strive,
    You'll never get out of life alive,
    So please kill yourself and save this land,
    And your last mission is to spread my command,"

    Slightly adapted quote from X-Fusion, Please Kill Yourself

  7. - Top - End - #37
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    RedKnightGirl

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    Default Re: What breaks if you remove half-level scaling?

    I guess we'll just agree to disagree. I do agree that you can write houserules to add things to a game, but generally it's to add something that is not already existant in the game, or you would modify the existing thing instead of completely over-writing it. Like, you might want to add a new class or race, or modify an existing race, but usually it's not "I'm going to completely remove this existing thing to use this new one instead." Either way, the game is all just suggestions, so if you are happy and your table is, that's all that matters. I just can't imagine a situation where effort would be best used to replace something instead of repair or create something instead.

    However,​ this has gotten WAY off topic, so instead why don't we focus on what OP needed help with.

  8. - Top - End - #38
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    DrowGuy

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    Jul 2008

    Default Re: What breaks if you remove half-level scaling?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuptup View Post
    I guess we'll just agree to disagree. I do agree that you can write houserules to add things to a game, but generally it's to add something that is not already existant in the game, or you would modify the existing thing instead of completely over-writing it. Like, you might want to add a new class or race, or modify an existing race, but usually it's not "I'm going to completely remove this existing thing to use this new one instead." Either way, the game is all just suggestions, so if you are happy and your table is, that's all that matters. I just can't imagine a situation where effort would be best used to replace something instead of repair or create something instead.
    Yeah, I really disagree with that. Here's a list of things you shouldn't try to do to a system via houserules:


    ...and that's it.

    If you don't want to personally that's fine, but I find it a strange line to draw that there are some cases that would involve overreach with houserules.

    But sure, we can agree to disagree.
    "It doesn't matter how much you struggle or strive,
    You'll never get out of life alive,
    So please kill yourself and save this land,
    And your last mission is to spread my command,"

    Slightly adapted quote from X-Fusion, Please Kill Yourself

  9. - Top - End - #39
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    RedKnightGirl

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    Default Re: What breaks if you remove half-level scaling?

    Cool. But, as others said before me, The "line" you're talking about isn't really a "oh no, we can't cross that line" it's usually a "man, we have to do so much to make X work like Y.., why don't we just go play Y instead?" and there's nothing wrong with that.

  10. - Top - End - #40
    Titan in the Playground
     
    DrowGuy

    Join Date
    Jul 2008

    Default Re: What breaks if you remove half-level scaling?

    I have literally never disputed that it would be a lot of work.
    "It doesn't matter how much you struggle or strive,
    You'll never get out of life alive,
    So please kill yourself and save this land,
    And your last mission is to spread my command,"

    Slightly adapted quote from X-Fusion, Please Kill Yourself

  11. - Top - End - #41
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    Lizardfolk

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    Default Re: What breaks if you remove half-level scaling?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuptup View Post
    Cool. But, as others said before me, The "line" you're talking about isn't really a "oh no, we can't cross that line" it's usually a "man, we have to do so much to make X work like Y.., why don't we just go play Y instead?" and there's nothing wrong with that.
    Here is the thing, it's going to require massive amounts of work either way. 5E edited a lot of the mechanical nuance out of the game and shifted powers back to class features, so you have to rewrite 5E just as much as you would 4E (if not more.) It's a false argument because there are no systems that adequately do both, so its not "why don't we go play Y?" but "which system requires the least rewriting to accomplish X?"
    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    Vibranium: If it was on the periodic table, its chemical symbol would be "Bs".

  12. - Top - End - #42
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2016

    Default Re: What breaks if you remove half-level scaling?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    Here is the thing, it's going to require massive amounts of work either way. 5E edited a lot of the mechanical nuance out of the game and shifted powers back to class features, so you have to rewrite 5E just as much as you would 4E (if not more.) It's a false argument because there are no systems that adequately do both, so its not "why don't we go play Y?" but "which system requires the least rewriting to accomplish X?"
    It would be if choosing 4e or 5e is the choice in gaming approaches that Boci was talking about, but it isn't. Go back and read the rest of the thread.

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