Let's Talk HeroQuest

[Catullus64]

I've lately discovered the fantastic game that is HeroQuest, and have been taking every opportunity to get my friends to play it with me. I don't own an actual copy of the game, but have constructed a working facsimile via Roll20 (fairly easy to do, considering the nature of the game). This game has been out of print for decades, so finding other players may be a rather long shot. (I know a revival is in the works, though). On the off-chance that some veterans of the game lurk hereabouts, I thought I'd open a thread to talk about this ancient gem, and air a few questions I've had about the rules.

For those not familiar, HeroQuest is a tile-based dungeon crawling board game, set in a primordial and nigh-unrecognizable version of the Warhammer Fantasy setting, wherein four players, controlling the Barbarian, Dwarf, Elf, and Wizard, navigate a set of dangerous labyrinths. It takes place on a fixed game board, with the individual scenarios created via the placement of doors (both overt and secret), furniture, traps, dead ends, and monsters on the pre-established pattern of rooms and corridors. It's got a simple D6-based combat system, and the toolkit enables the game master (personified in Zargon the evil sorcerer) to craft some truly fiendish scenarios. It's a fun game that engenders plenty of laughs and thrills, and I'd be happy to chat with anyone about it.

Spoiler: Rules Questions for experienced players.

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1. Searching
The rulebook contains the sentence "Each individual hero may only search a given room once, and may do so only on his turn." Now, this sentence falls under the section about searching for treasure specifically, but is worded in such a way that it might apply also to the Search for Traps and Search for Secret Doors actions. The way I've been playing it is that each hero can search a given board section once, whether that be for Traps, Treasure, or Secret Doors, because this seems like it adds more strategy to the act of searching. Is this how other people play it?

2. Entrance-Square Traps
Since you have to be in a room or corridor to search it for traps, isn't it true that a trap positioned on the square right on the inside of a door is unavoidable, since you have to enter and stand on the trap in order to be eligible to find it? On the one hand, this seems irritating, although I guess it could be rendered more of a fair challenge in the case of rooms with multiple (or secret) entrances.

3. Monsters and Unseen Corridors
What happens if a monster retreats into a room or corridor that has not yet been revealed by the players? Does the monster get taken off the game board? Is his position still visible to the players? If the former option, does he still move and act while not visible to the players? If the latter, do other monsters on the unseen section not get to move? The rulebook never addresses this, because it seems to contain the unspoken assumption that monsters, once revealed, will never do anything other than attack and then fight to the death.

4. Visibility
The rules for establishing what monsters are visible from a given position are laid out in the spellcasting section, and seem to mostly be written to apply to that section. However, monster visibility comes up later in other sections; specifically, searching for Traps and Secret Doors is impossible while a monster is visible. Does this mean a hero can still perform those search actions in combat so long as something (hero, wall, or door) obstructs his line of sight to any monster?

5. Resisting Spells
Many spells, including the Sleep spell available to the players and numerous spells available to Chaos Sorcerers, have the following language: "The spell can be broken at once or on a future turn by the monster/hero rolling one red die for each of its Mind Points. If a 6 is rolled the spell is broken." Now, "at once" I assume to mean when the spell is cast, but what about "on a future turn"? Does this happen at the end or beginning of said turn? Coming from Dungeons & Dragons, it makes sense to me that there would be an additional "saving throw" at the end of turn, but how have others run it?

[Rodin]

Hero Quest is what introduced me to D&D style roleplaying, even if I didn't know it at the time. I adored the game and loved playing Zargon the evil wizard, even though it always meant I "lost". Me and my sister befuddled quite a few babysitters who were expecting to play Monopoly or some "normal" game. I think the pastor's son who babysat us couldn't believe his luck - football player and pastor's son, dude had to project an image. Then he gets paid to play a form of D&D? I have never seen anyone enjoy a board game so much.

1)Yep. One search of each per room. No searching for treasure 4 times in every room, that gets you through the treasure deck wayyyy too quick and the wandering monsters aren't enough of a deterrent.

2) I always had a "suck it up and step on it" mentality, but then again I did play the bad guy. I like having the room be unsearchable before you enter, it makes the traps more meaningful.

3) Never had a monster move out of line of sight. The way I would rule it is that monsters can move into snother room, but only if they have previously been seen. Once in there they are free to reposition, but the monsters already in the room are not.

This one would also require a "no cheese" proviso. No having the monsters leg it out the door every time the heroes show up until they have an overwhelming force. Be a good GM and only have monsters flee if it makes for good roleplaying.

4)This one just seems like common sense - searching a room means searching the entire room, and you essentially "take 20" to cover the entire room. There is no way to fail a trap search. It strains belief that a hero could search for traps and see a trap that is both out of sight and underneath a monster that happens to be standing on it. Same thing for a secret door that the monster is standing in front of.

On the flip side, traps and secret doors are the area where I feel HeroQuest falls down the most. The rules for them are too simple and canny players will never miss a secret door - they simply clear the area, then search it. Setting up houserules that allow failure (and making the different heroes weaker/stronger at the rolls) seems like a good one to investigate to make the game more interesting.

5)I don't recall how we used to play it, but the way that makes sense to me is instantaneous save followed by end of turn. If you don't make the first save, you miss a turn. At the end of the turn you miss, you roll to see if you miss the next one. One roll per potential missed turn.

Also, crossbows are broken and need to be houseruled. They trivialized a lot of the game. Three heroes with crossbows and backup melee weapons to swap to could massacre anything.

[Catullus64]

4)This one just seems like common sense - searching a room means searching the entire room, and you essentially "take 20" to cover the entire room. There is no way to fail a trap search. It strains belief that a hero could search for traps and see a trap that is both out of sight and underneath a monster that happens to be standing on it. Same thing for a secret door that the monster is standing in front of.

On the flip side, traps and secret doors are the area where I feel HeroQuest falls down the most. The rules for them are too simple and canny players will never miss a secret door - they simply clear the area, then search it. Setting up houserules that allow failure (and making the different heroes weaker/stronger at the rolls) seems like a good one to investigate to make the game more interesting.

Also, crossbows are broken and need to be houseruled. They trivialized a lot of the game. Three heroes with crossbows and backup melee weapons to swap to could massacre anything.

For #4, rooms are already mostly covered by the rule which says that you can't search a room that has monsters in it, visible or no. The reason I ask is mostly concerned with traps in corridors; there's no good way to deal with them if there are monsters in the same corridor, short of hoping that you can lure the monsters back into territory that you've already cleared. I would like it if there was more counterplay for those setups, and I honestly think that having a fellow hero provide cover for you while you scan the hallway makes some sense. I'll have to see how the game changes on that basis.

Yeah, the fact that Crossbows have no ammunition limit seems rather silly to me. Once my players work up enough money to afford one, I'm definitely ruling something like a limit of 10 shots per quest, at most.

[Bavarian itP]

1)Yep. One search of each per room. No searching for treasure 4 times in every room, that gets you through the treasure deck wayyyy too quick and the wandering monsters aren't enough of a deterrent.

I just want to point out that this is different from the OP's suggestion despite you answering with "Yep."

[LibraryOgre]

I got a copy from my aunt sometime between 1990-1994 (based on where we lived, likely closer to 1990), and loved the heck out of it. I wasn't allowed to play D&D, but HeroQuest was ok because it wasn't D&D. I even backed the crowdfunding last year, and I opened this hoping someone had more word on the release date.

[Catullus64]

I got a copy from my aunt sometime between 1990-1994 (based on where we lived, likely closer to 1990), and loved the heck out of it. I wasn't allowed to play D&D, but HeroQuest was ok because it wasn't D&D. I even backed the crowdfunding last year, and I opened this hoping someone had more word on the release date.

Sorry to disappoint. I daresay that from what I've seen of the new release, the art and miniatures don't hanve quite the same charm as the original game. I just hope they keep the gameplay intact (with maybe some rebalancing of certain monsters and weapons.)

[Velaryon]

I don't have any real input on the rules questions since I haven't played it in ages, but I wanted to comment anyway because I loved HeroQuest back in the day and I also think replicating it on Roll20 is a wonderful idea!

I didn't get to play it as often as I might have liked back in the day, but I did play it once in a while. My friends and I used to argue over who got to be Zargon and who had to be the heroes. We also threw out the quest book and made our own stories up. It really was a proto-D&D for me before I knew what D&D was.

I also used to use parts of my HeroQuest game for D&D when I first got into it. I used some of the minis to represent enemies and NPCs. Unfortunately over the years most of them broke or got lost. I also used the board as a layout for the interior of a castle keep they explored and ended up taking over to inhabit.

[Brother Oni]

Got the game, got the all the expansions except for the wizard quest book and still have them all, although the models are in various states of quality.

Crossbows having unlimited ammo isn't an issue, as if you stick to the rules of the game, no card = no equipment and the UK version only had one crossbow card.

Heroes standing in the doorway and forcing the enemies to fight one at a time was a much bigger problem though, at least with vanilla. Against the Ogre Horde introduced larger rooms and bigger nastier creatures that made the 'block the doorway' tactic unviable though.

I even backed the crowdfunding last year, and I opened this hoping someone had more word on the release date.

If you're looking for something that sort of scratches the itch, Dark Quest 2 on Steam is available and is even on sale for another 22 hrs from time of posting.

[Brookshw]

I'm very happy to see this is reprinting and will be available for retail. I was just looking for a simple game that my 4 yr old might be able to manage as a starter for gaming, and recall this was fairly easy rules wise.

[DigoDragon]

I remember this game! I found out about D&D because of it and for a while we used that board for our dungeon maps.

[Zuras]

Is there anything specific about Heroquest that makes it more compelling for you than one of the more modern dungeon-crawl board games? What does it have going for it beyond the nostalgia and 3-D furniture when you compare it to Mice & Mystics, Descent, or Betrayal at House on the Hill?

[Catullus64]

Is there anything specific about Heroquest that makes it more compelling for you than one of the more modern dungeon-crawl board games? What does it have going for it beyond the nostalgia and 3-D furniture when you compare it to Mice & Mystics, Descent, or Betrayal at House on the Hill?

Firstly, I don't actually have any nostalgia for this game; I never heard of it before a month or two ago.

Simplicity is the big draw. It's a lot easier to just pick up and play. Only familiar with one of the games you listed, but compared to, say, Descent, it takes a fraction of the time to learn or set up.

The Quest Book has a lot of really fun scenarios that use the simple ruleset to create dungeons of surprising variety. Particular shoutouts go to Melar's Maze and Castle of Mystery. The expansions, particularly Return of the Witch Lord, go even crazier with expanded options and neat twists on the basic formula.

The art style of the classic game (which I do not in fact own) is very neat from what I can see.

[Zuras]

Firstly, I don't actually have any nostalgia for this game; I never heard of it before a month or two ago.

Simplicity is the big draw. It's a lot easier to just pick up and play. Only familiar with one of the games you listed, but compared to, say, Descent, it takes a fraction of the time to learn or set up.

The Quest Book has a lot of really fun scenarios that use the simple ruleset to create dungeons of surprising variety. Particular shoutouts go to Melar's Maze and Castle of Mystery. The expansions, particularly Return of the Witch Lord, go even crazier with expanded options and neat twists on the basic formula.

The art style of the classic game (which I do not in fact own) is very neat from what I can see.

I can’t argue with the draw of simplicity. My concern is does it give you enough options to keep the gameplay from getting monotonous? Do you have combat options other than just trying to roll lucky? Does the variety of scenarios and the exploration do most of the work keeping things fresh, or is the fact that it doesn’t require your full attention and you can also just hang out part of the charm?

[Catullus64]

I can’t argue with the draw of simplicity. My concern is does it give you enough options to keep the gameplay from getting monotonous? Do you have combat options other than just trying to roll lucky? Does the variety of scenarios and the exploration do most of the work keeping things fresh, or is the fact that it doesn’t require your full attention and you can also just hang out part of the charm?

Simple as it is, there's a decent amount of tactics that go into it. Enemies can kill you very swiftly if they get the chance to gang up, so good play centers around positioning in the natural chokepoints of doors and hallways, prioritizing the most dangerous targets, and carefully assessing where you move because of the omnipresent threat of traps. A good Zargon, and some of the better pre-made scenarios, can place enemies in clever ambush positions and flanking routes to make this harder. Generally, the Wizard and the Elf need to think a little harder, since they've got combat resources to deploy in the form of their spells, each of which can be used only once per dungeon. Traps are generally very easy to deal with outside of combat, but can easily spell disaster if you trip them in a precarious moment.

On a strategic level, the game is all about assessing whether to push on to more rooms and objectives in the hope of more treasure (which you can spend to kit out your heroes with better weapons & armor). Potions carry over between dungeons, so great tension comes of trying to decide whether to use a potion, or save it for a future dungeon. Treasure, random monsters, and environmental hazards are drawn from the same deck, with hazards and monsters getting shuffled back in, so the more treasure you find, the more dangerous searching becomes.

Two mechanics might bother experienced gamers, but I think they actually contribute a lot to the game. The first is the fact that you roll to move; it's a valuable element of chaos, in a game that otherwise is very easy to play so optimally that there is little challenge. The same is true of fixed turn order, rather than player or random-determined initiative; it imposes more challenge, in my opinion.

Even though the character statistics are extremely simple, they help give very distinct roles to the different players.

• The Barbarian starts off with the best weapon, and has the best health total. He's the party's frontline, but his Mind Points (defense against many spells, and against Shock with one of the expansion rulesets) are the lowest.
• The Dwarf isn't quite as tough as the barbarian, but he's more mentally resilient, and is the only member of the party who can reliably disarm traps.
• The Wizard has terrible combat stats and can't use most weapons and armor, but he boasts the widest array of spells (nine per dungeon). This means he has to hang back and be inactive for a lot of combats, but he has lots of utility and can whip out powerhouse offense in key moments.
• The Elf is a jack-of-all-trades, with three spells to the Wizard's nine, but more health than the Wizard, and he can use all weapons and armor. In the late game, when the party is geared out, I would argue this makes the Elf the strongest character.

[Brother Oni]

Further to the above, the game is also persistent in that loot from previous adventures can be used to buy equipment that can be brought into future adventures. You can even get access to special quest artifacts, like the Spirit Blade which is the best sword in the game.

The spells were split into the four classical elements of Earth, Fire, Air and Water, and the Wizard and Elf picked an element at the start of each adventure. Each element had 3 spells, each aligned to a particular characteristic, like Fire being damage dealing, water being healing and control, etc.

Later expansions added more depth like the Wizards of Morcar added three new spell sets, but also added boss characters (the aforementioned wizards) with their own spell cards.
Against the Ogre Horde let the heroes hire men at arms, or additional one hit characters that could bulk up a party or expand combat options (crossbow men that could attack at range, halberdiers that can attack diagonally and let you get flanking attacks on tougher enemies, etc).

[LibraryOgre]

I remember playing BITD and we also introduced levelling... getting a bonus point to attributes after each adventure.