Craziest Idea Mafia

[Book Wombat]

Kinda funny how many Investigative Roles there supposedly are. Hello there.

[totadileplayz]

And multiple people discarded investigative as well.

[Aventine]

21 players, 3 cards each. 9 abilities. I'd expect about 7 investigative cards. We're not at unbelievable numbers yet.

[totadileplayz]

21 players, 3 cards each. 9 abilities. I'd expect about 7 investigative cards. We're not at unbelievable numbers yet.

I can confirm one of my cards was investigative not the one I ended up using as my power but I had it.

[JeenLeen]

I lied about my power, since I was worried someone might void me. What I really wanted was to see the 'hit by tactical flashlight' at least once. If my banter got the cult to waste a convert on me, all the better; but more important was a NK not being wasted, since, yeah, sooner game ends the better for me. Plus I didn't want to get mindslaved N1, especially with bladescape already as a potential mindslave-target.

My real cards were Town Roleblocking, Town Killing, and Survivor Communicative.
I did figure that a Friendly Neighbor townie could be really powerful, but a Vigilante Survivor wasn't something I was willing to pass up.

OH--and to make me useful to Town: what if I plan to kill the runner-up each Night? Unless it's obvious from the flip that the runner-up is likely Town, in which case I'll go with the third-highest wagon. Or, like, y'all can vote at Night who you want me to kill and I'll aim for hte person with the most votes by the time I can get online to check.

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Haven't read this Day's posts, beyond seeing a lot of initial votes on me.
It's a shame who I killed was going to die anyway due to a Fanatic conversion. As for why I picked him, he seemed somewhat active but not strongly any reads, and discarded Protective so I figured he wasn't baned.

[Elenna]

Well so much for Jeen possibly having a good explanation.

I don't even think town vigilantes are particularly helpful, let alone neutral vigs who might decide to help another side at any time. On the other hand, arguably testing one of the scries and likely hurting a non-town faction is better than killing a neutral? Gonna have to think about that one.

[Apogee1]

Catching up now; but wanted to comment that I'm highly side-eyeing those going after jeen because its pretty obvious he is the survivor? As in there isn't anyone else claiming to be survivor? We can debate the merits of keeping around a survivor with a gun, but voting him for ... lying reads like a really easy way to dump votes on a target who doesn't have teammates to go after you for.

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Why? Jeen claimed something that, as far as I understand, can't be (entirely) true. Even if I haven't jumped on the wagon (yet), it seems like a pretty good one.

Batcathat

I'd call this the worst reaction, I think.

Noting the multiple claimed red/purple checks, but uh idk how to approach investigatives in this game :/

[Aventine]

Well so much for Jeen possibly having a good explanation.

I don't even think town vigilantes are particularly helpful, let alone neutral vigs who might decide to help another side at any time. On the other hand, arguably testing one of the scries and likely hurting a non-town faction is better than killing a neutral? Gonna have to think about that one.

Are...are you kidding?

That was a fine explanation. More to the point, how does that explanation point to Jeen being scum? If you want to argue this doesn't make sense under a Jeen is survivor world, then how does it make sense under a Jeen is scum world? Can anyone on the Jeen wagon give anything resembling a reason why scum-Jeen is more likely to make that lie than survivor-Jeen?

Voting for an uncounter-claimed survivor claimant over one of the seer tests is madness. something something THIS IS SPARTA!!!!!!!

[Xihirli]

"So much for" Jeen having a good explanation means Elenna agrees that Jeen's explanation is a horrible one and we should set fire to this lying liar who lies out of his lying liar-hole that lies, as would a liar who lies.

[totadileplayz]

After a lot, and I mean a lot of thinking this through.

As a Survivor Killer. If he's lying not much changes it just means that it's a red herring and one faction will know this or the serial killer. He's going to be mindslaved as he can't be killed and is adding an additional kill for the aliens. That and a roleblocker has to continually roleblock them draining resources from other factions. This, means he's going to be the target of several abilities at night to neutralize or manipulate him. Including trackers to figure out what happened to him and who may have targeted him.

That alone makes me want him to live. No redirects just necessary plays since confirmed killer if the mindslaver does anything else they are doing something wrong. This makes it so that any and all roleblockers also needs to focus on them in case they kill one of their team-mates. Town are less coordinated so I don't doubt they will also get interested in the event though that's less desirable for me.

So Valmark test a scry to figure other things out.

[Elenna]

Are...are you kidding?

That was a fine explanation. More to the point, how does that explanation point to Jeen being scum? If you want to argue this doesn't make sense under a Jeen is survivor world, then how does it make sense under a Jeen is scum world? Can anyone on the Jeen wagon give anything resembling a reason why scum-Jeen is more likely to make that lie than survivor-Jeen?

Voting for an uncounter-claimed survivor claimant over one of the seer tests is madness. something something THIS IS SPARTA!!!!!!!

I'm not saying I think they're lying. I'm saying that I think they're telling the truth and I don't want a non-town killing role around. I was more willing to keep them alive when I thought they might have been lying about being survivor for some reason. Getting rid of them automatically means one less kill, which means a longer game so town has more time to gather info. The seer tests won't do that, unless one of the tested people happens to be the only player in their faction.

When I said "so much for Jeen having a good explanation" I was referencing my previous post, where I suggested that Jeen might have had a good explanation for lying about being survivor. I didn't mean that Jeen's explanation wasn't believable, I meant that it wasn't something that made me not want to kill them.

That being said, after further thought I think the seer tests are more valuable for today, just because Jeen is more likely to kill a non-town player. Valmark because there's more votes on him than on bladescape and also because I'd rather focus on cult than mafia if given the choice.

EDIT: tot also has a point about Jeen being blocked. OTOH, now alien mindslaver knows who to target if they want a kill. Do we know what happens if a mindslaver targets someone who was roleblocked?

[Snowblaze]

...well, I guess I was right?

Valmark because independently of scries I think he’s more likely to be a wolf than bladescape.

On Jeen: my vote earlier was more of a gut reaction, I didn’t think through the possibilities in detail at the time. Now I have I’ve decided their play makes no sense for any alignment! But assuming no counterclaim they’re Survivor until proven otherwise, I suppose.

On an alien psychotrooper: sure, it’s possible. But it’s also an easy excuse for scried scum. And I was considering starting the day with a Valmark vote last night, before the scry - it certainly doesn’t reduce the chances of his being a wolf.(Scum. Cultist. You know what I mean.)

[Batcathat]

"I lied, but it was for the good of the town" seems popular. I still think both Jeen and bladescape look kinda shady but their excuses are not impossible so I'll leave my vote where it is (though I'd prefer it if someone could vertify Xi's scry or faction).

[bladescape]

BatCatHat - To provide a second wagon for the day for now at least, and so we can pressure outside scry claims and actually get information.

Remember guys, death of info = bad for town, even if we catch scum during the day.

Point 2. NEVER lynch the survivor vig here.

Think it over this is actually a really good play for town. I suggest we have a second vote, maybe Blue? I'm open to colour choices.

Basically an informal second vote where Jeen shoots inside of.

This is, of course, assuming that we can clear up any roleblockers that would be targeting them.

[Snowblaze]

bladescape*, then!

Partly because it’s fun, but also because gac3 voted for rogue_alchemist so r_a is cleared of being an alien, increasing his chances of being the actual Seer...

Although then again alien!r_a’s results would also be accurate so... does this actually change the probability of bladescape being mafia? *shrug* he should probably die anyway, unless Valmark flips non-cultist which would be evidence for alien psychotrooper and so invalid scries.

... can you tell I’m confused? I need to get things in order.

*using grey because that’s the colour of a Survivor kill

[totadileplayz]

I genuinely do not believe voting would work period. That gives a focus on a specific target which allows potential scum-mates to react.

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For the Jeenleen bit I mean.

[bladescape]

I genuinely do not believe voting would work period. That gives a focus on a specific target which allows potential scum-mates to react.

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For the Jeenleen bit I mean.

Once roleblockers are removed it becomes a little more workable.

Also the best way around 'teammates react' is the curate a list of the top three grey votes and have them go into a pool that Jeen picks from.

Common tactic used for Town Vig shots, albeit usually the town vig isn't out by then.

[Valmark]

I guess I could be stuck in the world where my play was specifically to neuter the Mindslaver to stop it messing with more important town roles so if I got roleblocked it has to be that I'm a 200IQ genius and I succeeded in my play.

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You also can't prove it wasn't.

The better question is: Would I lie like that as mafia if I knew I'd be revealed as having not killed N1?

If I was Mafia I'd know any kill I make comes up with mafia flavouring, not town.

Or you were roleblocked by literally anybody else (which could still be a success for you, dunno).

I don't see how that would be an issue since somebody would have to be scanning you in some way to tell any of that. It isn't as likely as you make it out to be.

I lied about my power, since I was worried someone might void me. What I really wanted was to see the 'hit by tactical flashlight' at least once. If my banter got the cult to waste a convert on me, all the better; but more important was a NK not being wasted, since, yeah, sooner game ends the better for me. Plus I didn't want to get mindslaved N1, especially with bladescape already as a potential mindslave-target.

My real cards were Town Roleblocking, Town Killing, and Survivor Communicative.
I did figure that a Friendly Neighbor townie could be really powerful, but a Vigilante Survivor wasn't something I was willing to pass up.

OH--and to make me useful to Town: what if I plan to kill the runner-up each Night? Unless it's obvious from the flip that the runner-up is likely Town, in which case I'll go with the third-highest wagon. Or, like, y'all can vote at Night who you want me to kill and I'll aim for hte person with the most votes by the time I can get online to check.

---

Haven't read this Day's posts, beyond seeing a lot of initial votes on me.
It's a shame who I killed was going to die anyway due to a Fanatic conversion. As for why I picked him, he seemed somewhat active but not strongly any reads, and discarded Protective so I figured he wasn't baned.

"I lied for the lols" (paraphrased) is a reasoning I can get behind from a Survivor. bladescape because his defense has holes.

After a lot, and I mean a lot of thinking this through.

As a Survivor Killer. If he's lying not much changes it just means that it's a red herring and one faction will know this or the serial killer. He's going to be mindslaved as he can't be killed and is adding an additional kill for the aliens. That and a roleblocker has to continually roleblock them draining resources from other factions. This, means he's going to be the target of several abilities at night to neutralize or manipulate him. Including trackers to figure out what happened to him and who may have targeted him.

That alone makes me want him to live. No redirects just necessary plays since confirmed killer if the mindslaver does anything else they are doing something wrong. This makes it so that any and all roleblockers also needs to focus on them in case they kill one of their team-mates. Town are less coordinated so I don't doubt they will also get interested in the event though that's less desirable for me.

So Valmark test a scry to figure other things out.

You seem... Unnaturally sure there is a Mindslaver in game, totadileplayz.

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Same thing goes for bladescape, thinking about it.

[bladescape]

It's better to assume something is active than not tbh.

But tell me, what are these 'holes' in my defense?

[Snowblaze]

Both bladescape and totadile discarded alien cards, Valmark. That means it's unlikely to be TMI that a mindslaver exists.

[Valmark]

It's better to assume something is active than not tbh.

But tell me, what are these 'holes' in my defense?

Yes and no. It's better to assume but between that and saying that there is one there's an abyssal difference.

Your reasoning for it to be unlikely to be lying as mafia is that your kill would be flavored differently, but that's not actually an issue since nobody knows wether you've killed/who you killed unless you were spied on or something like that.

Both bladescape and totadile discarded alien cards, Valmark. That means it's unlikely to be TMI that a mindslaver exists.

...I'm not the one saying there is a Mindslaver though?

[Snowblaze]

...I'm not the one saying there is a Mindslaver though?

I know. My point is that since they discarded alien cards they can't be aliens and so can't know whether there's a mindslaver.

I assumed you were saying they're suspiciously certain so could have TMI about the existence of a mindslaver. Did I misinterpret something?

(In hindsight my original post was kind of unclear. I should have said their certainty is unlikely to be TMI.)

[Unavenger]

Oh, and @Unavenger when a framer makes up information about a target, do they have to provide every info? Or can they keep things blank, so the real info would be displayed?

They can make up as much or as little as they like.

[EmmyNecromancer]

Guys! Someone told me that Valmark is Town! I used my Seer ability and found out that rogue_alchemist is a member of the alien faction!

The abilities I still have are my Watcher, Doctor, and Roleblocker abilities.

[Valmark]

Guys! Someone told me that Valmark is Town! I used my Seer ability and found out that rogue_alchemist is a member of the alien faction!

The abilities I still have are my Watcher, Doctor, and Roleblocker abilities.

"Someone told me"? Oh, is that the... I think Town Gossip is the one that makes someone get an Investigative or Tracking result? That what you're saying?

This would also imply that Xihirli lied (because even if I was hit by a Framer or Psychotrooper two different people would get the same result presumably).

Well, tecnically Emmy could be lying but I'm Town and I know that (obviously) so I know she isn't lying.

Sounds good to me to lynch any of Xihirli, rogue_alchemist or bladescape- of these the first is probably better imo, because rogue and blade are implied due to a scry (whicu could have been faked) while Xi has been using misinformation to try and get somebody lynched.

[Xihirli]

Guys! Someone told me that Valmark is Town! I used my Seer ability and found out that rogue_alchemist is a member of the alien faction!

The abilities I still have are my Watcher, Doctor, and Roleblocker abilities.

Speaking of lying, this was a test and Emmy passed.

What's better than testing one person? Testing two people. I'm the Town Gossip and I whispered to Emmy tonight about Valmark's role. I had no way to actually scry Valmark, but I got thinking.

If Emmy is anti-town, she has no reason to save Valmark no matter what a claimed Seer says he is. The only scenario (except for WIFOM) where Emmy chimes in to save Valmark is when they're part of the same faction. I'm going to gamble easy odds and say they're both town.

So, repeat: Valmark is safe, Emmy is safe (until CULT has something to say), let's kill JeenLeen or rogue_alchemist.

[Valmark]

...I'm so confused right now.

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I know. My point is that since they discarded alien cards they can't be aliens and so can't know whether there's a mindslaver.

I assumed you were saying they're suspiciously certain so could have TMI about the existence of a mindslaver. Did I misinterpret something?

(In hindsight my original post was kind of unclear. I should have said their certainty is unlikely to be TMI.)

Wait, didn't Unavenger said he wouldn't deal (if possible) two duplicate role cards? Or was that extended to factions too?

[Unavenger]

Wait, didn't Unavenger said he wouldn't deal (if possible) two duplicate role cards? Or was that extended to factions too?

They, and no-one has been dealt two cards with the same role type on at all.

[Valmark]

They, and no-one has been dealt two cards with the same role type on at all.

What about factions?

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Or rather, non-Town factions (I figured this was obvious but maybe it's better to specify it).

[Batcathat]

Ah, so many different accusations to keep track of. I suppose I'll trust Emmy and go with rogue_alchemist. Xi's story could be true or it could be a clever way to distance herself from accusing Valmark.