New theory: Redcloak will screw over Eugene.

[Ionathus]

Like, legit question here. What, exactly, do you think the Oath does? Do you think it mildly inconveniences someone until the target dies from literally anything?

Yeah, that's exactly what I think it does. Isn't that already punishment enough?

I think you're downplaying how unpleasant it would be to be stuck on a featureless expanse of clouds with nobody to talk to and nothing to do, for years, decades, or potentially centuries while you await final judgment. You know cabin fever? This is the dire, half-dragon version of that.

[Precure]

Funny enough, I also think the Lawful Good afterlife would honor the spirit rather than the letter. But to me, the spirit of the oath is "I'm locked out until Xykon dies, preferably by a Greenhilt's hand, but any old cause will do."

He was ckearly thinking of personal revenge though right there. And if every death counts, wouldn't that just cheapens the oath? You just need to wait till that person dies from old age.

[Ionathus]

He was ckearly thinking of personal revenge though right there. And if every death counts, wouldn't that just cheapens the oath? You just need to wait till that person dies from old age.

If every death didn't count, where did all the other oathspirits go? I think it's super unlikely that not a single Good-aligned person who swore an oath of vengeance (remember: they're common enough that you can get one in a tattoo parlor) failed to kill their target before something else did. In the span of a decade? Maybe. In the span of centuries? Eventually it's a numbers game. There should be other oathspirits up here, stuck forever, if that's how it works.

As for cheapening the oath, I think it's already pretty powerful as-is. Isolation sucks. Long-term isolation can drive people crazy.

[Peelee]

Yeah, that's exactly what I think it does. Isn't that already punishment enough?

No. Being Lawful Good is a out setting a better bar for yourself. It is supposed to be difficult to be, hard to keep to that, and constantly about being better. The Giant himself said something along those lines, and I agree. And if you want to go to the Lawful Good afterlife and make an oath that you will never rest until you or one of your heirs does something, then no, I don't think you should later on be able to say "well not really" because it didn't turn out like you expected.

I think you're downplaying how unpleasant it would be to be stuck on a featureless expanse of clouds with nobody to talk to and nothing to do, for years, decades, or potentially centuries while you await final judgment. You know cabin fever? This is the dire, half-dragon version of that.

I'm not downplaying anything. I absolutely agree with you. And I think that's an excellent reason to not make an oath like that, or to damn well stick to it if you do. If only the one who offered it exicitly warned Eugene about it? Said it was very bad idea, tried to offer anything else? Or if the Deva told him that she was sticking to it in the comic I linked? If only things like that had happened, maybe we would be able to get a sense of how this is a big deal and not a mild inconvenience like you seem to think it is.

Amd you want to know why it's fair? Because, again, Eugene did it to himself. He set a goal with incredibly harsh restrictions, willingly ditched that goal despite those restrictions, and then was surprised when he found out "hey, we actually care about the very specific things you swore in life".

And, again, the entire reason I got onto this train of though as spelled out in the first post was because of just how much it was hammered in that it must be an heir that does it. The other oath spirit's heir frees her. We're told hero in SoD. We're told heir in the online comic. They make a huge deal about Roy getting in and Eugene not. This is incredibly heavily him foreshadowed if it goes off like I think, the groundwork and buildup is very heavily constructed, it fits entirely with everything we've been shown, and so far your only rebuttal has been "yeah but that would suck." I never once said it wouldn't. Of course it would suck! You know what else sucks? The Abyss. The Nine Hells. But Tarquin's soldiers get tossed in there even if they were doing stuff so their families wouldn't get killed. Because guess what, do sucky things and you get a sucky end. Sure, this ending would suck for Eugene. So maybe, just maybe, he shouldn't have made a sucky oath and then made a sucky choice to completely abandon it and then think, for no reason whatsoever, "Eh it'll probably be fine." And, despite all of that, you're still arguing in favor of "Eh, it'll probably be fine" with practically zero justification. I'm not going to pretend that I am absolutely 100% right and cracked the code. I'm willing to be wrong. But if you want to give me a possibility if being wrong, you need a reason other than "I don't think that what the Oath said, and what the deva said, and everything we have seen so far, I don't think any of that will be consistent because that would be really really mean to Eugene".

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck and walks like a duck then you need better than "I don't like ducks" to convince me that it's a cat.

[Mike Havran]

The Oath says "rest" so I assume any afterlife that does not let one rest (eg, the Nine Hells, or Pandemonium, just to get a good spread on the spectrum) would not have issues with the Oath barring entry.

But that's just a theory.

For that matter, I think no Chaotic afterlife would have big problem with oathbreaking.

[Ionathus]

No. Being Lawful Good is a out setting a better bar for yourself. It is supposed to be difficult to be, hard to keep to that, and constantly about being better. The Giant himself said something along those lines, and I agree. And if you want to go to the Lawful Good afterlife and make an oath that you will never rest until you or one of your heirs does something, then no, I don't think you should later on be able to say "well not really" because it didn't turn out like you expected.

Right, and I'm saying that because Eugene half-assed his attempt to fulfill the oath, he's being delayed from the Lawful Good afterlife. He's being shown to have a very crappy time because of this, all thanks to his own actions. The conditions have already been met.

not a mild inconvenience like you seem to think it is.

Sorry, I'm confused. Why do you think I'm saying this is only a mild inconvenience? I'm saying that simply having to wait for Roy/Julia/a descendant to complete the Oath is already very, very bad. Cabin fever to the extreme that has already gone on for years and might go quite a bit longer. When you're in the midst of an agonizingly long negative experience, it's hard to look forward to the far-off resolution.

Or are you talking about something else that I'm supposedly downplaying? I'm genuinely lost here.

so far your only rebuttal has been "yeah but that would suck."
<snip>
"I don't think that what the Oath said, and what the deva said, and everything we have seen so far, I don't think any of that will be consistent because that would be really really mean to Eugene".
<snip>
If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck and walks like a duck then you need better than "I don't like ducks" to convince me that it's a cat.

Again, please stop putting words in my mouth.

My argument is not that it would be sad for Eugene. I don't care about what happens to Eugene! I felt like his arc wrapped up quite nicely already.

My argument is that the logic required for this theory isn't consistent with Stickworld's logic as I understand it. If this happened, it would make me question other parts of the story, its worldbuilding, and its tone. That's the real issue I have with the theory, and it's frustrating to be portrayed as the President of the Eugene Fanclub when that's not what I'm trying to say.

[Precure]

If every death didn't count, where did all the other oathspirits go? I think it's super unlikely that not a single Good-aligned person who swore an oath of vengeance (remember: they're common enough that you can get one in a tattoo parlor) failed to kill their target before something else did. In the span of a decade?

If they're lawful good as they claimed, they must give it all to fulfill their oath, or at least died while trying to fulfill it, like Roy. If they're not lawful as they believed, then they might go to other planes instead.

[Dion]

If it’s really important to have logic and consistency in the afterlife to suspend disbelief, let me ask this:

What would happen to a dwarf with a blood oath who then died dishonorably without fulfilling their oath?

[Peelee]

If they're lawful good as they claimed, they must give it all to fulfill their oath, or at least died while trying to fulfill it, like Roy. If they're not lawful as they believed, then they might go to other planes instead.

Aye. In addition to that, I also don't see a whole mess of Good characters swearing a Blood Oath of Vengeance. A smattering, sure. And even if they were commonplace, and even if a bunch of them were eternally stuck because none of their heros ever did anything and the target died a peaceful death, then it's still an infinite plane and still not necessarily any reason we'd see any of them because they don't matter to the story and, assuming that this theory is true, blatantly telegraphing Eugene's ending would be poor storytelling.

[Ionathus]

If it’s really important to have logic and consistency in the afterlife to suspend disbelief, let me ask this:

What would happen to a dwarf with a blood oath who then died dishonorably without fulfilling their oath?

A fascinating thought experiment! My original understanding was that every single plane honors Blood Oaths, but perhaps that's not correct. If so, I doubt Hel would care -- it's free food for her, and by a certain train of thought that dwarf is even doubly dishonorable

Maybe we're operating from different understandings of how the Blood Oath works. I originally figured that it keeps you out of ANY afterlife, and your original Afterlife Arbiter is decided by your own self-image of your personal morality. Thus, Eugene thinks he's Lawful Good and is sent to the Lawful Good arbiter. That arbiter then decides whether he qualifies for judgment or still needs to fulfill his oath. They have the power to leave him in purgatory forever if Xykon gets killstolen, keeping him from not just the Lawful Good afterlife but all others as well...because in order for him to go to True Neutral or whatever, the deva first has to transfer his case over there.

But if the rules are looser, and Eugene could choose go to Neutral Good or Chaotic Good or even True Neutral despite the Blood Oath keeping him out of all the Lawful afterlives, that at least makes somewhat more sense to me.

it's still an infinite plane and still not necessarily any reason we'd see any of them because they don't matter to the story and, assuming that this theory is true, blatantly telegraphing Eugene's ending would be poor storytelling.

Emphasis mine - strangely, what you consider "blatant telegraphing" is the kind of thing I'd prefer to see ahead of time if it's coming. Because the stated lack of other permanently-stranded oathspirits (Eugene says Violet is literally the only other one IIRC) leads me to believe that they all wind up going through eventually.

It kind of reminds me of Olbers' paradox.

[KorvinStarmast]

I just realized another reason this theory doesn't quite hold up for me: [B]Blood Oaths of Vengeance are common enough that you can get one in a tattoo parlor by asking nicely, {snip} Eugene was drunk and mourning the death of his mentor and closest friend who was murdered in front of him. I fail to see how the Lawful Good afterlife would lock him out of judgment
permanently because he didn't read the fine print on a friggin' tattoo.

Maybe LG does mean "sanctimonious jerks R us" as the consistent theme, but I find your point to be at least worth considering.

such "no win" situations are built into the strict wording of the Paladin code of Conduct.

The 3.5 paladin code is badly put together, and is a core part of the problem. (The previous editions' "codes" / rules weren't any better).

[Ionathus]

Maybe LG does mean "sanctimonious jerks R us" as the consistent theme, but I find your point to be at least worth considering.

Haha, nobody tell O-Chul and Durkon!

The 3.5 paladin code is badly put together, and is a core part of the problem. (The previous editions' "codes" / rules weren't any better).

Yeah, I would also object to that paladin code paradox you quoted. You'd think there would be a provision for the definition of "legitimate ruler" that disqualifies them if they start torturing innocent citizens, assassinating opponents, spreading wide-scale destruction, etc.

[Precure]

What would happen to a dwarf with a blood oath who then died dishonorably without fulfilling their oath?

Only dwarves who died "honorably" can go to planes other than Hel. All dwarves who died dishonorably go to Hel, it doesn't matter what their alignment was, or whether they took a blood oath or not. A lawful dwarf who died honorably but failed to fulfill their oath would stuck just like Eugene. But judging by how lawful dwarf culture is, I would expect any dwarf who took such an oath to fulfill it, or at least died while trying to fulfill it. Non-lawful planes would probably accept all honorably died dwarves with required alignments, even if they unfulfilled their oaths.

[Peelee]

Emphasis mine - strangely, what you consider "blatant telegraphing" is the kind of thing I'd prefer to see ahead of time if it's coming. Because the stated lack of other permanently-stranded oathspirits (Eugene says Violet is literally the only other one IIRC) leads me to believe that they all wind up going through eventually.

If there were any other Lawful Good people who made such oaths and abandoned them and had heirs who did not fulfill them and were near Eugene on an infinite plane and had any relevance to the story. The first two alone are likely to be pretty dang rare. All of it combined? Why bother wasting screen time on that? As for it being the thing you'd prefer to see ahead of time, would you also have preferred to see MitD teleporting other people away beforehand? A lich that wasn't Xykon getting demolished by being chucked into Dorukan's wards beforehand? Another spirit trapped in a vampire body using its memories in a planned and specific way to gain control of the vampire body and let it be destroyed beforehand? If you prefer logically consistent yet not yet fully revealed endings revealed before its then done exactly the same way but to a main character, hey, mkte power to ya, but it's not really prevalent in the comic so that might just be wishful thinking.

We have the Oath, which explicitly says that he will not rest until he or an heir fulfills a trigger. Not fine print, despite previous claims, literally the entire print and the sole condition. We have the deva, the literal guardian of the gates who decides who gets in and who does not, unequivocally state that not only is Eugene stuck out there, he's stuck until an heir fulfills the trigger. And then declares that yes, it is in fact fair. The only indication we've seen that he may get in if Xykon is destroyed by anyone else is from Eugene, who was wrong about his own getting in to Celestia and also about Roy getting in to Celestia.

So, one source from the actual factual origin that he won't get in, one source from the person who decides who gets in and who doesn't that he wont get in, and two sources from someone who has been wrong literally every time he expects something about whether or not it prevents one from getting in. And yet some people argue that the guy who has been wrong every time about it is probably right this time, despite the actual text of the Oath and the direct words of the deva.

Yeah, I remain unpersuaded.

[Dion]

You ever meet one of those really smart people who know everything and are wrong about everything?

In this strip, that person is Eugene. In real life, we call them Engineers.

[Precure]

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0486.html

Eugene's words here ("Nothing to do but watch the living or hook up with other oathspirits") may imply that there is more of them there than Violet. Also, Violet's great-great-granddaughter fulfilled her oath, but we didn't see any of her other descendants. Either they all died while trying to fulfill the oath, still living, or we simply didn't see any of them.

[dancrilis]

... were near Eugene on an infinite plane ...

It is heavily implied that the plane is not infinite (panel 1).

[Peelee]

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0486.html

Eugene's words here ("Nothing to do but watch the living or hook up with other oathspirits") may imply that there is more of them there than Violet. Also, Violet's great-great-granddaughter fulfilled her oath, but we didn't see any of her other descendants. Either they all died while trying to fulfill the oath, still living, or we simply didn't see any of them.

"We simply don't see them" is already the case, so I don't really see any disconnect here. Are there any who are stuck for all time? Maybe, but we simply don't see them.

It is heavily implied that the plane is not infinite (panel 1).

Fair.

[Ionathus]

As for it being the thing you'd prefer to see ahead of time, would you also have preferred to see MitD teleporting other people away beforehand? A lich that wasn't Xykon getting demolished by being chucked into Dorukan's wards beforehand? Another spirit trapped in a vampire body using its memories in a planned and specific way to gain control of the vampire body and let it be destroyed beforehand? If you prefer logically consistent yet not yet fully revealed endings revealed before its then done exactly the same way but to a main character, hey, mkte power to ya, but it's not really prevalent in the comic so that might just be wishful thinking.

Now this is just getting unfair. I offered my reasons for wanting that kind of telegraphing for this specific situation: Eugene & Violet's interactions led me to believe that there are no other oathspirits around. I said that if oathspirits can get stuck in this way, it would be nice to have that telegraphed, because the information I already have (Eugene & Violet being the only 2 they know, Eugene talking about being the last one now that Violet's gone) kind of contradicts that.

In response, you took much bigger plot points out of context and snarkily described them in the same fashion, unintentionally portraying me as the kind of person who's incapable of understanding the difference between "unexpected" and "contradicts earlier established information." I don't demand that every surprise in fiction be perfectly replicated beforehand, no.

I'm sorry for how vitriolic I've made our back-and-forth. If I don't respond to your future replies, please know it's just because this discussion has become too stressful for me, not because I'm trying to execute a mic drop or something. Goodness knows I like to argue, and it's a fun challenge to construct a cohesive argument or dissect the reasoning in another person's argument. Even if I don't agree with your theory, it was enjoyable to discuss it.

[Mike Havran]

"We simply don't see them" is already the case, so I don't really see any disconnect here. Are there any who are stuck for all time? Maybe, but we simply don't see them.

Eugene states that he is the only oathspirit left up there.

[Peelee]

Now this is just getting unfair. I offered my reasons for wanting that kind of telegraphing for this specific situation: Eugene & Violet's interactions led me to believe that there are no other oathspirits around. I said that if oathspirits can get stuck in this way, it would be nice to have that telegraphed, because the information I already have (Eugene & Violet being the only 2 they know, Eugene talking about being the last one now that Violet's gone) kind of contradicts that.

In response, you took much bigger plot points out of context and snarkily described them in the same fashion, unintentionally portraying me as the kind of person who's incapable of understanding the difference between "unexpected" and "contradicts earlier established information." I don't demand that every surprise in fiction be perfectly replicated beforehand, no.

I'm sorry for how vitriolic I've made our back-and-forth. If I don't respond to your future replies, please know it's just because this discussion has become too stressful for me, not because I'm trying to execute a mic drop or something. Goodness knows I like to argue, and it's a fun challenge to construct a cohesive argument or dissect the reasoning in another person's argument. Even if I don't agree with your theory, it was enjoyable to discuss it.

For what it's worth, that was directed at korvin stormast and not you, since that's how I read his post. I did not mean to imply that you also required that (and I also apologize for being needlessly aggressive). That all being said, I do stand by the idea that it has been telegraphed; the entire reason I even came up with this theory was because I noticed that the blood oath needed to be fulfilled by an heir was being really hammered home, a surprising number of times, which I took as a good indication that it would be important and potentially rife for subversion of expectations.

For what it's worth, if you no longer reply, I will fully put that on mysefl for responding too aggressively and if you do continue to engage I will absolutely work towards being less flippant. Which I should really do all the time, really, but this is a good example of a thread where I let it get away from me completely and I should be better.

[dancrilis]

Eugene & Violet's interactions led me to believe that there are no other oathspirits around.

A better reason to believe that there are no more Oathspirits around might be when Eugene states it outright (panel 4).

[Dion]

Poor Eugene. He’s stuck up there by himself. We’ve never seen such terrible unfairness to a soul in the afterlife before, and it really surprises me

Except for the souls trapped in soul gems

And the souls trapped in vampire bodies.

And the souls eaten by the snarl

And every dwarf soul.

But other than those very minor exceptions, the disposition of souls seems completely fair and not in any way arbitrary.

The strange exception that Eugene breaking a lawful blood oath somehow keeps him out of a lawful afterlife really takes me out of the story.

[Ionathus]

A better reason to believe that there are no more Oathspirits around might be when Eugene states it outright (panel 4).

Ah, I was looking for that one! Thank you for sharing it.

Poor Eugene. He’s stuck up there by himself. We’ve never seen such terrible unfairness to a soul in the afterlife before, and it really surprises me

Except for the souls trapped in soul gems

And the souls trapped in vampire bodies.

And the souls eaten by the snarl

And every dwarf soul.

But other than those very minor exceptions, the disposition of souls seems completely fair and not in any way arbitrary.

The strange exception that Eugene breaking a lawful blood oath somehow keeps him out of a lawful afterlife really takes me out of the story.

To be fair, the Lawful Good afterlife clerk can't do anything about the vampires or snarl victims or dwarves (all of which are portrayed in-comic as being Very Bad Outcomes!). But if her discernment is the difference between Eugene stewing on his own mortal laziness for several years, or him being locked out of any afterlife for eternity due to a technicality, I do think that's worth discussing. Didn't somebody say something similar during the Redcloak debates? "'Other people also have it bad' is not a reason to not do the right thing when you have the opportunity." Pretty sure I'm paraphrasing there.

Dion, what's your take on your own hypothetical that you posed to me earlier? Do you think Eugene is free to go knock on another afterlife's doors right now, or is his case permanently stuck in that Deva's filing cabinet, and he can't enter any afterlife unless his heirs kill Xykon?

[RatElemental]

Poor Eugene. He’s stuck up there by himself. We’ve never seen such terrible unfairness to a soul in the afterlife before, and it really surprises me

Except for the souls trapped in soul gems

And the souls trapped in vampire bodies.

And the souls eaten by the snarl

And every dwarf soul.

But other than those very minor exceptions, the disposition of souls seems completely fair and not in any way arbitrary.

The strange exception that Eugene breaking a lawful blood oath somehow keeps him out of a lawful afterlife really takes me out of the story.

I'm with you on the dwarves, and the snarl (though that one's more of an eldritch horror thing than an intentional outcome created by the gods), but vampires will eventually die somehow and the soul gems will eventually be destroyed. Entropy alone would ensure that even if the oots world didn't run on plot logic in the grand scheme of things.

That said, here's another relevant factor: What about people who no longer have any living heirs? That should be guaranteeing that all the fugue planes have at least a few eternally stranded oathspirits if it absolutely 100% has to be one of your heirs personally fulfilling your oath to count. As for "cheapening" the oath if it doesn't, well, oath targets don't have to be mortal humans; Violet's was an evil soul-devouring sword. Objects like that tend to live a lot longer than some random guy you want dead, unless said guy decides to become a lich that is.

[wingnutx]

The letter of the Oath shouldn't matter if he doesn't deserve his reward regardless.

Just like the fiends speculating that they may end up getting V's soul after the familicide he pulled on the black dragon, even without contractual agreement.

[Peelee]

Ah, I was looking for that one! Thank you for sharing it.



To be fair, the Lawful Good afterlife clerk can't do anything about the vampires or snarl victims or dwarves (all of which are portrayed in-comic as being Very Bad Outcomes!). But if her discernment is the difference between Eugene stewing on his own mortal laziness for several years, or him being locked out of any afterlife for eternity due to a technicality, I do think that's worth discussing. Didn't somebody say something similar during the Redcloak debates? "'Other people also have it bad' is not a reason to not do the right thing when you have the opportunity." Pretty sure I'm paraphrasing there.

Dion, what's your take on your own hypothetical that you posed to me earlier? Do you think Eugene is free to go knock on another afterlife's doors right now, or is his case permanently stuck in that Deva's filing cabinet, and he can't enter any afterlife unless his heirs kill Xykon?

The thing is, it's not really a technicality. If you swear "I will not drive I over 50 mph, let I be imprisoned for life," and you get pulled over clocked at 62, it would be difficult to claim that you should not go to prison because the speed is just a technicality. He swore a very specific path that had only one condition for completion and only one punishment if uncompleted.

I would find it pretty difficult to argue against the technicalities on what exactly constitutes the exacting horrible vengeance other than just going with "apparently not if the comic has him still locked out", but the "by me or my heirs" is pretty black and white. Every character that has talked about the Oath has mentioned this very specific stipulation.

[pearl jam]

Ah, I was looking for that one! Thank you for sharing it.
Dion, what's your take on your own hypothetical that you posed to me earlier? Do you think Eugene is free to go knock on another afterlife's doors right now, or is his case permanently stuck in that Deva's filing cabinet, and he can't enter any afterlife unless his heirs kill Xykon?

Personally, I think the only afterlives doing careful review before admitting anyone on merits are the ones with "Good" in the name.

If one finds themselves at the gates of Hell(s) I think it unlikely that they will then be turned away for not being evil enough. "Welcome to Hell, we hope you don't enjoy your stay." And I think the neutral ones would be inclined to just take another soul battery as well.

[Peelee]

Personally, I think the only afterlives doing careful review before admitting anyone on merits are the ones with "Good" in the name.

If one finds themselves at the gates of Hell(s) I think it unlikely that they will then be turned away for not being evil enough. "Welcome to Hell, we hope you don't enjoy your stay." And I think the neutral ones would be inclined to just take another soul battery as well.

Seconded, at least for Good and Evil. Anyone can be tortured into aligning with the Abyss, after all. Not so sure about the Neutrals.

[Ionathus]

The thing is, it's not really a technicality. If you swear "I will not drive I over 50 mph, let I be imprisoned for life," and you get pulled over clocked at 62, it would be difficult to claim that you should not go to prison because the speed is just a technicality. He swore a very specific path that had only one condition for completion and only one punishment if uncompleted.

I would find it pretty difficult to argue against the technicalities on what exactly constitutes the exacting horrible vengeance other than just going with "apparently not if the comic has him still locked out", but the "by me or my heirs" is pretty black and white. Every character that has talked about the Oath has mentioned this very specific stipulation.

Man, traffic laws get more draconian every year. I still remember when the punishment for speeding was only a decade in prison!

On a more serious note, we seem to disagree what the "punishment" in your hypothetical scenario is. For me, that punishment is already being fulfilled right now by Eugene having to wait. Since Xykon is a lich, he might even have to wait a very long time. In the ~1040 comic that dancrilis linked, Eugene admits he's going crazy up there already with nobody to talk to, and it's barely been a few years, so this does seem like a real punishment for being derelict in his oath, at least to me.

However, you seem to view that as a mere prelude to the actual punishment, which will only happen if a Greenhilt doesn't get to Xykon first. Meanwhile, I don't see that as the expected, normal punishment: it's a special circumstance to me. To tweak your speeding analogy, it would be more like saying "I will only drive 50 or be imprisoned for two years," then you get pulled over going 62 and something in your court case gets botched, so you spend the rest of your life behind bars instead of the 2 years you're supposed to. Your case is stuck in administrative hell, and you are powerless to change the situation. The Deva in this situation would be a court employee who has an opportunity to catch the error and ensure the proper procedure and sentencing is followed.

Personally, I think the only afterlives doing careful review before admitting anyone on merits are the ones with "Good" in the name.

If one finds themselves at the gates of Hell(s) I think it unlikely that they will then be turned away for not being evil enough. "Welcome to Hell, we hope you don't enjoy your stay." And I think the neutral ones would be inclined to just take another soul battery as well.

My question was less about the afterlives being willing to take him, and more about his own agency in going there. In a Miko discussion, Rich mentioned that souls can't freely visit other afterlives...I was wondering if people thought this demiplane also counted for those same travel restrictions.

I also agree that the Good afterlives are probably the only ones who are picky. In fact, I can see the Lawful Evil entrance being more of a reverse: you have to plead your case to NOT go to the Nine Hells, but of course the prosecutors are much better equipped and well-prepared than you are. They may be Lawful, but they're still Evil after all