soul splicing and how it works

[Ionathus]

There's no reason the soul splice would need to be part of a contract or a sell-your-soul, thing, though. If Soul Splicing is just something that god-like entities can do with the souls they own, regardless of alignment, then I wouldn't be surprised if the Good and Neutral gods found ways to use that tool even outside of the context of Faustian temptations. If I was a high-level cleric of a Good god, and they came up to me while I was chilling in the afterlife and said "hey you wanna go bust some evil heads with a cleric on the Prime Material?" I'd probably be jumping at the chance to show off and kick Evil's butt once again!

Strip away the "sell your soul" rider, and it starts to just look a lot more like fusion earrings from DBZ. This is literally the only part of DBZ I watched, I'm sorry but I'm unable to answer any followup questions

[RatElemental]

Yeah it's definitely something some souls might want to do... at first. Horace probably would have taken the chance to help fight more evil back when he first arrived, but he's moved on and has let go of the material world, meanwhile Eugene would tell you to kick rocks because he's earned his rest (well, if he actually had earned his rest anyway).

[Riftwolf]

There's no reason the soul splice would need to be part of a contract or a sell-your-soul, thing, though. If Soul Splicing is just something that god-like entities can do with the souls they own, regardless of alignment, then I wouldn't be surprised if the Good and Neutral gods found ways to use that tool even outside of the context of Faustian temptations. If I was a high-level cleric of a Good god, and they came up to me while I was chilling in the afterlife and said "hey you wanna go bust some evil heads with a cleric on the Prime Material?" I'd probably be jumping at the chance to show off and kick Evil's butt once again!

Strip away the "sell your soul" rider, and it starts to just look a lot more like fusion earrings from DBZ. This is literally the only part of DBZ I watched, I'm sorry but I'm unable to answer any followup questions

Does 3.5 deal with reincarnations of former powerful clerics? Because it seems like that'd be preferable over a soul splice, as it takes away the whole 'robbed of agency' angle. (there might be rules about this *not* being the case as it'd give evil gods opportunity to reincarnate the Ancient Stablords)
And just because it's a utility we've seen with Evil agents doesn't mean there's automatically a Good analog. Trap the Soul doesn't have a good equivalent, for example.

[RatElemental]

Does 3.5 deal with reincarnations of former powerful clerics? Because it seems like that'd be preferable over a soul splice, as it takes away the whole 'robbed of agency' angle.

Reincarnation isn't usually a standard part of the D&D cosmology, outside of the reincarnate spell, a 4th level druid only spell that rerolls the recipient's race and resurrects them into a young adult body. Still doesn't work on things that have died of old age, who died more than a week ago, or whom you do not have any body parts to cast it on.

There are a couple settings that have "natural" reincarnation but it's just a soul recycling thing that maybe sometimes gives past life memories, not class levels or abilities.

Trap the Soul doesn't have a good equivalent, for example.

Actually, it kind of does. Sanctify the Wicked, traps an evil creature inside a gem for a year while they undergo magical therapy and or brain washing (subject to DM) before being released as a good version of themself. I say kind of because Trap the Soul doesn't have the [Evil] descriptor. Soul Bind doesn't even have it. There are lots of good or neutral reasons you might want someone (like, say, Xykon) to be beyond the reach of resurrection.

[M1982]

If they weren't willing, then the IFCC still had rightful dominion over their souls according to the rules of afterlife. Redcloak has no such thing.

I believe other than Lee no fiend would have cared about "rightful"

No, the once-in-a-century thing was just soul splicing itself.

Unlikely as both Redcloak and Xykon recognized it immediately.

Redcloak as soon as he saw it and Xykon as soon as Redcloak called it.

There wasn't even a second of confusion for either of them.

[Riftwolf]

Unlikely as both Redcloak and Xykon recognized it immediately.
Redcloak as soon as he saw it and Xykon as soon as Redcloak called it.
There wasn't even a second of confusion for either of them.

Remember that Redcloak had spent the better part of the last book researching obscure mysticism to try and break O-Chuls mind?
Chances are he read about Soul Splices, even if they only happened once a century, but because of the moving parts involved decided it wasn't a productive avenue.

[M1982]

Remember that Redcloak had spent the better part of the last book researching obscure mysticism to try and break O-Chuls mind?
Chances are he read about Soul Splices, even if they only happened once a century, but because of the moving parts involved decided it wasn't a productive avenue.

Xykon immediately knew what a soul splice too. Immediately after RC told him that one was in play he started wisecracking and smacktalking about it. Not a moment of "soul-what?"

[Morty]

I believe other than Lee no fiend would have cared about "rightful"

They might not care, but they did have ownership of the souls based on how afterlife works. And whether they care or not is less important than whether the mechanics of the Soul Splice do.

[M1982]

They might not care, but they did have ownership of the souls based on how afterlife works. And whether they care or not is less important than whether the mechanics of the Soul Splice do.

But we have no base to assume that ownership has anything to do with it.

Also the fiends really have no ownership of the souls on there plane. LE may be the only who could claim some ownership.

For CE and NE it's merely "soul happens to be in my vicinity and I am more powerful than it".

Just because a soul spawns in the Abyss after it's death doesn't grant Orcus any more ownership than him just picking it up due to the poor sod having spawned just next to him

[Ionathus]

And just because it's a utility we've seen with Evil agents doesn't mean there's automatically a Good analog. Trap the Soul doesn't have a good equivalent, for example.

I'm not saying there's some "good equivalent" to soul splicing, I'm saying there's no in-world reason given for why soul splicing can't be an inherently neutral mechanic, usable by any powerful god-like being with dominion over souls. Sure, maybe some Good gods don't use it because they don't like the connotations, and they only do it if they have willing volunteers, and volunteers are rare because they'd rather chill in the Good afterlives, but I wouldn't doubt for a second that there are a handful of high-level Good-aligned casters who are cheering for their descendants and would be happy to help out in a pinch.

Basically, I don't see anything inherently evil about the process, if everyone involved is cool with it.

[WolvesbaneIII]

I'm not saying there's some "good equivalent" to soul splicing, I'm saying there's no in-world reason given for why soul splicing can't be an inherently neutral mechanic, usable by any powerful god-like being with dominion over souls. Sure, maybe some Good gods don't use it because they don't like the connotations, and they only do it if they have willing volunteers, and volunteers are rare because they'd rather chill in the Good afterlives, but I wouldn't doubt for a second that there are a handful of high-level Good-aligned casters who are cheering for their descendants and would be happy to help out in a pinch.

Basically, I don't see anything inherently evil about the process, if everyone involved is cool with it.

with it being a homebrew thing in comic, maybe it has something to do with behind the scenes bureaucracy slowing it down. the fiends had paperwork to do off screen and well, had to pull strings to get the gods to deliver.

I could see it being a once a century deal based on the amount of paper work, not the lack of willing participants or gods.

the fiends, having the deal worked out in advance pooled their resources together and wasted 3 splices on 1 guy, but it was alright for plot reasons. maybe they sat on their splices for all that time and its just a coincidence or bad luck that the gods of good never get one. its by lottery or some other weird thing?

I know its just a 1 off thing but this is so cool, I want to know more.

[Squire Doodad]

with it being a homebrew thing in comic, maybe it has something to do with behind the scenes bureaucracy slowing it down. the fiends had paperwork to do off screen and well, had to pull strings to get the gods to deliver.

I could see it being a once a century deal based on the amount of paper work, not the lack of willing participants or gods.

the fiends, having the deal worked out in advance pooled their resources together and wasted 3 splices on 1 guy, but it was alright for plot reasons. maybe they sat on their splices for all that time and its just a coincidence or bad luck that the gods of good never get one. its by lottery or some other weird thing?

I know its just a 1 off thing but this is so cool, I want to know more.

It's a DnD world, for all we know Soul Splice is an effect that requires the use of specifically Evil souls or souls under the power of an Evil entity, and can only be applied onto a non-Good entity.
If certain classes are alignment-locked, then surely it's reasonable to assume certain effects have their only means of application can strictly be used by someone of a given alignment.
Or maybe the act of a Soul Splice requires reducing fifty separate souls to nothing, which Good-aligned gods (and gods in general) are very hesitant about doing.

[Morty]

with it being a homebrew thing in comic, maybe it has something to do with behind the scenes bureaucracy slowing it down. the fiends had paperwork to do off screen and well, had to pull strings to get the gods to deliver.

I could see it being a once a century deal based on the amount of paper work, not the lack of willing participants or gods.

the fiends, having the deal worked out in advance pooled their resources together and wasted 3 splices on 1 guy, but it was alright for plot reasons. maybe they sat on their splices for all that time and its just a coincidence or bad luck that the gods of good never get one. its by lottery or some other weird thing?

I know its just a 1 off thing but this is so cool, I want to know more.

I don't see what's so cool about it that would make it worth bringing back. It's yet another way for a spellcaster to become really powerful. As if they needed more of those. It served its purpose to give Vaarsuvius a power boost at a price, with terrible consequences. That's enough.

[AgentofOdd]

I don't see what's so cool about it that would make it worth bringing back. It's yet another way for a spellcaster to become really powerful. As if they needed more of those. It served its purpose to give Vaarsuvius a power boost at a price, with terrible consequences. That's enough.

Personally I wouldn't mind seeing a soul splice used with Eugene. Chances of this happening are very slim but if Eugene actually deigns to help his son then it would show some character grow from the jerk which I honestly wouldn't mind. Also, there's a good chance he'd have to bind himself with Elan which would be humiliating and have some comedic value. I mean think about it. V is the best candidate for the splice in theory, but they have significant trauma from the 1st splice and might not be able to hold onto a 2nd. Roy, Durkon & Belkar are busy being frontline fighters and shouldn't be casting spells. Haley has her hands full shooting things. Elan on the other hand mostly stands around singing, occasionally acts as a secondary caster, and has some experience with illusions. The resident pretty boy is the best (but terrible) option for a soul splice the order has.

[WolvesbaneIII]

It's a DnD world, for all we know Soul Splice is an effect that requires the use of specifically Evil souls or souls under the power of an Evil entity, and can only be applied onto a non-Good entity.
If certain classes are alignment-locked, then surely it's reasonable to assume certain effects have their only means of application can strictly be used by someone of a given alignment.
Or maybe the act of a Soul Splice requires reducing fifty separate souls to nothing, which Good-aligned gods (and gods in general) are very hesitant about doing.

its as of yet undefined if its only evil or any alignment can use it.

but I could see it being evil only, and maybe only non evil users could use it as its "selling your non evil soul" vs why bother selling an already evil soul? it will be gotten in time if they keep up the bad and wicked ways, and they'll go down below if its kept up.

I don't see what's so cool about it that would make it worth bringing back. It's yet another way for a spellcaster to become really powerful. As if they needed more of those. It served its purpose to give Vaarsuvius a power boost at a price, with terrible consequences. That's enough.

its cool. its a power boost even if it is cast from a lower tier caster. it grants more spells, refreshes your spell slots upon being granted, and I'll elaborate on the "power" boost.

V has the ability to cast spells possibly outside his spell range. he had epic spells which he couldn't cast under normal conditions. he had spells outside his barred schools. he could take down a dragon that had priorly beaten him.

its cool, but I hope it doesn't come back for V, but I could see it being spoken of, and if used, should be explained in full detail as to how and hopefully it makes sense.

currently, I hope it stays away so as to not ruin the epicness of it.