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  1. - Top - End - #571
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls: The XVII Princes of Oblivion

    For anyone having issues with the fishing might I suggest a nice scenic visit to Belethor.

    On summons: Frost Atronach is excellent at blocking up doorways. Especially if you then spray Ice Storms over the top of him.

    My rogue types tend to be squishy and so they like hitting up Sanguine to get the Sanguine Rose. Conjuring a large angry tank helps you get away more often than you might think.
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  2. - Top - End - #572
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls: The XVII Princes of Oblivion

    Speaking of Saints and Seducers and buggy quests, I seem to have somehow started that mod’s quest.

    Spoiler
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    I was heading toward Forsaken Cave to pick up the White Phial, and it triggered a quest regarding bandits I never encountered and mentioned Khajiit I never spoke to.


    Good to know Bethesda quality assurance is as high as ever. Also:

    Spoiler: Fishing update
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    Still no Goldfish - I’m headed south so hopefully that will change - but I did notice there is, for some reason, an entirely new variation of Salmon Steak. I think it’s made when I use Salmon instead of Salmon Meat, but why the mod maker wanted or needed to make a largely identical item is puzzling.


    Quote Originally Posted by Triaxx View Post
    On summons: Frost Atronach is excellent at blocking up doorways. Especially if you then spray Ice Storms over the top of him.
    Ooo, I don’t have Ice Storm yet but I will keep an eye out!
    Last edited by Kareeah_Indaga; 2022-01-10 at 09:01 PM.

  3. - Top - End - #573
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls: The XVII Princes of Oblivion

    Quote Originally Posted by Triaxx View Post
    For anyone having issues with the fishing might I suggest a nice scenic visit to Belethor.

    On summons: Frost Atronach is excellent at blocking up doorways. Especially if you then spray Ice Storms over the top of him.

    My rogue types tend to be squishy and so they like hitting up Sanguine to get the Sanguine Rose. Conjuring a large angry tank helps you get away more often than you might think.
    Frost Atronachs are tanks, for the most part.
    Storm Atronachs are my favorite early in dragon fights (get them down to the ground), followed by dremora.
    Dremora are my walking around summons, though.
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  4. - Top - End - #574
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls: The XVII Princes of Oblivion

    Quote Originally Posted by Kareeah_Indaga View Post
    Good to know Bethesda quality assurance is as high as ever.
    The worst thing about Creation Club content is, there's no reasonable way to get rid of it once installed. That nonsense is not even a mod, it's part of the base game, now, for us.
    "None of us likes to be hated, none of us likes to be shunned. A natural result of these conditions is, that we consciously or unconsciously pay more attention to tuning our opinions to our neighbor’s pitch and preserving his approval than we do to examining the opinions searchingly and seeing to it that they are right and sound." - Mark Twain

  5. - Top - End - #575
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls: The XVII Princes of Oblivion

    Quote Originally Posted by veti View Post
    The worst thing about Creation Club content is, there's no reasonable way to get rid of it once installed. That nonsense is not even a mod, it's part of the base game, now, for us.
    Just pull it out of the data folder and have a mod manager handle it, like anything else.

  6. - Top - End - #576
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls: The XVII Princes of Oblivion

    Quote Originally Posted by Mando Knight View Post
    Just pull it out of the data folder and have a mod manager handle it, like anything else.
    My issue with this is that it puts the onus on me, the user, for a piece of content I didn’t ask for in the first place, where previously I at least had the option of not engaging with it by not buying/installing it. It bodes ill for future games, because now at no point is Bethesda actually interacting with me, as a player or a customer:

    • Someone else is making the content
    • No one is testing it
    • I don’t have the option of refusing it, regardless of what shape it’s in

    Previously, if the base game was too buggy to be playable, I could check the reviews and put off buying it until it was stable. Ditto for the DLCs. If a mod was broken I could uninstall it. Now my options are ‘don’t play/buy the game’ or ‘let Bethesda decide what content I should have’ when they have no meaningful input into the process.

    To be clear I’m not directing this at Saints and Seducers specifically or any of the other mods CC content, S and S bugging out just highlighted it. My issue is with the precedent this sets, as I don’t see it leading to a quality gaming experience in the future.

  7. - Top - End - #577
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls: The XVII Princes of Oblivion

    Quote Originally Posted by Kareeah_Indaga View Post
    My issue with this is that it puts the onus on me, the user, for a piece of content I didn’t ask for in the first place
    Wait, how did you get the creation club in the first place?
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  8. - Top - End - #578
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls: The XVII Princes of Oblivion

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Wait, how did you get the creation club in the first place?
    Did you miss the part where the game auto updated on the 10th anniversary of its first launch? Unless you took active measures to keep your game on an unsupported obsolete version.

    Yes, there's an identifiable plugin for S&S, and yes it can be deactivated. But what assurance do we have that the whole mod is contained in that one plugin? What if changes have been made elsewhere that have never been tested without S&S present?
    Last edited by veti; 2022-01-12 at 04:28 PM.

  9. - Top - End - #579
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls: The XVII Princes of Oblivion

    Quote Originally Posted by veti View Post
    Did you miss the part where the game auto updated on the 10th anniversary of its first launch? Unless you took active measures to keep your game on an unsupported obsolete version.
    I haven't touched Skyrim in a long while. The Anniversary edition was an automatic upgrade? I thought it was a cash-grab? Has Internet lied to me?
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  10. - Top - End - #580
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls: The XVII Princes of Oblivion

    Special Edition auto-updates with some CC content. Anniversary contained the rest and was an expensive additional purchase.
    Last edited by Triaxx; 2022-01-12 at 07:20 PM.

  11. - Top - End - #581
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls: The XVII Princes of Oblivion

    Quote Originally Posted by Triaxx View Post
    Special Edition auto-updates with some CC content. Anniversary contained the rest and was an expensive additional purchase.
    Yes, this; everyone automatically got:
    • Saints and Seducers
    • Fishing
    • Rare Curios
    • Survival Mode (with the note that this one asks you if you want to turn it on after finishing the tutorial)

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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls: The XVII Princes of Oblivion

    There a couple of neat-looking Elder Scrolls-themed mods, if someone likes strategy and big battles. I have yet to try them out.

    Elder Scrolls -- Battle for Tamriel for BFME 2 (ROTWK) https://www.moddb.com/mods/the-elder...le-for-tamriel

    And Morrowind: House Wars for Mount and Blade Warband https://www.moddb.com/mods/morrowind-house-wars
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  13. - Top - End - #583
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls: The XVII Princes of Oblivion

    Things I want in Elder Scrolls 6 UI:

    • Some indication for ‘you already know this spell’ or ‘you already learned this enchantment’ when I’m looking at a spellbook/enchanted item. I’m tired of buying spellbooks only to find it was for a spell I started the game with, and carrying (heavy!) swords and armor across town twice when I find out it’s safe to sell.
    • Some way to sort items by weight, value, and at least filter by name - I want to find the stuff that is weighing me down the most and what I’m most likely to want to sell at bare minimum.
    • I want the option to hide any recipes, potion attributes, armor types etc. that I don’t currently have the materials for. I shouldn’t have to scroll through ten thousand things when I can only make two of them.
    • Speaking of potions, I want the ability to favorite recipes.
    • Poison is clunky and ESO does it better. Don’t make me hand select a poison out of my hoard of bottles every time I want to use one, at least give me a handful of hits per bottle.
    • Please don’t make me listen to the shopkeepers’ canned dialog when I click out of the shop and immediately back in again.

  14. - Top - End - #584
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls: The XVII Princes of Oblivion

    Quote Originally Posted by Kareeah_Indaga View Post
    [*]Some way to sort items by weight, value, and at least filter by name - I want to find the stuff that is weighing me down the most and what I’m most likely to want to sell at bare minimum.
    Part of what I loved about SkyUI was exactly this. I'm on a computer. Stop treating me like I'm on a console.
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  15. - Top - End - #585
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls: The XVII Princes of Oblivion

    Quote Originally Posted by Kareeah_Indaga View Post
    Some indication for ‘you already know this spell’ ... I’m tired of buying spellbooks only to find it was for a spell I started the game with
    I'd honestly rather that they dropped spell tomes as the mechanic for learning spells from merchants and just used the system that they used for Morrowind and Oblivion - the merchant shows you a list of the spells which they can sell you that you don't already know, and you learn the spell when you buy it rather than having to take the extra step of going into your inventory and reading a spell tome. Spell tomes are okay as a way to obtain spells from loot, but there's not really any gameplay value in using them to obtain spells from merchants - it's not like opening your inventory to read a spell tome or three makes for interesting or engaging gameplay, and there's not even a trade-off between spells known and carry capacity such as would result from needing to carry a tome for every spell that you want to be able to use - and I can't say I see any reason to want to buy a spell tome rather than the spell itself unless you're trying to build a library with as many unique books as possible or something like that.

    Poison is clunky and ESO does it better. Don’t make me hand select a poison out of my hoard of bottles every time I want to use one, at least give me a handful of hits per bottle.
    I don't really agree with this one; the only poisons in Skyrim that I'd really want to apply to my next N hits are the direct-damage poisons - all the Aversion to X and the stronger no-Magicka/Stamina-regen poisons last long enough that I shouldn't really need to re-apply it to a given target within the next N strikes for reasonable values of N, Paralysis and the weaker no-Magicka/Stamina-regen poisons probably wouldn't be useful unless I change targets with each hit, tagging one enemy with Fear or Frenzy is usually good enough (and tagging multiple enemies with Fear can start to get counterproductive since you end up having to chase after them and most of the point of making an enemy run away is to gain time/space to deal with another enemy without the first enemy's interference), and for reasonable values of N a poison that applies an effect to my next N strikes will probably have worn off before any of these need to be re-applied anyways.

    Beyond that, generally speaking my feeling is that if an effect is weak enough that it's reasonable to allow it to apply to the next N>1 hits then it probably ought to come from a (semi-)permanent enchantment or a buff spell rather than a poison, and a poison that has such a weak effect is probably too weak, at least for my current level - especially if it's that weak even in comparison to common level-appropriate (or, worse, weaker-than-level-appropriate) enemies. I would far rather have instant-damage poisons whose magnitudes read "drop dead" to most common enemies, DoT poisons strong enough to do the same for most elite/boss enemies given time to run their course, and crowd-control/debuff/damage-amplifying poisons strong enough and common enemies weak enough that I don't feel the need to poison every enemy I encounter than have a poison whose effect is +30 damage to my next 5 attacks. Especially if there are spells, non-poison consumables, or enchantments that do basically the same thing, because if you're going to give me temporary ways to amplify my damage (or, really, to do anything else) then I'd rather have a system that gives me meaningfully distinct options - e.g. a poison that adds 500 damage to my next hit and a buff spell that increases my attack damage by 50 for the next 30 seconds - than one where all the different options give me the same end result (e.g. 50 more damage on each attack for the next 30 seconds regardless of whether I apply a poison, cast a spell, burn a scroll, or whatever), because if it's done well then the former will allow for one option to be better in some cases and another option to be better in other cases whereas the latter gives the exact same result regardless of approach.
    Last edited by Aeson; 2022-01-19 at 02:11 AM.

  16. - Top - End - #586
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls: The XVII Princes of Oblivion

    As far as I can tell the reason to have Spell Tomes is so enemies can drop them. I'd be okay with keeping the tomes if they only dropped from enemies/loot chests.
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  17. - Top - End - #587
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls: The XVII Princes of Oblivion

    Quote Originally Posted by Triaxx View Post
    As far as I can tell the reason to have Spell Tomes is so enemies can drop them. I'd be okay with keeping the tomes if they only dropped from enemies/loot chests.
    With the caveat that a spell you already know, or multiples of the same spell, won't spawn in.

    Just... You know, keep things simple.
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  18. - Top - End - #588
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls: The XVII Princes of Oblivion

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    With the caveat that a spell you already know, or multiples of the same spell, won't spawn in.

    Just... You know, keep things simple.
    I mean, frankly im fine with selling 8 tomes of fireball to merchants, the same way im fine with selling 8 Elven Swords to merchants. Heck, theyre lighter than most weapons, so i'd actually prefer loot in spells.
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  19. - Top - End - #589
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls: The XVII Princes of Oblivion

    Quote Originally Posted by Aeson View Post
    I don't really agree with this one; the only poisons in Skyrim that I'd really want to apply to my next N hits are the direct-damage poisons
    These are the ONLY poisons I’ve been using regularly. Stamina drain is only useful against power attacking foes, Magicka drain is only good for spellcasters, but everything uses hitpoints. So I would much rather do the ESO method of putting a big stack of poison into the poison slot of the weapon I’m using and forget about it until it runs out ten fights from now. It’s much less micromanage-y than having to dig through the unfilterable mess of poisons and potions I’m carrying around multiple times per fight, just to find another damage health bottle. I would be willing to put up with a little inefficiency in the form of wasted doses on already-poisoned or immune-to-poison foes to avoid that hassle.

    (Admittedly ESO also has you making x4 the number of poisons for each batch you make compared to potions; wastage isn’t as big a deal when you’re making 16 poisons for each set of ingredients you use.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Triaxx View Post
    As far as I can tell the reason to have Spell Tomes is so enemies can drop them. I'd be okay with keeping the tomes if they only dropped from enemies/loot chests.
    I don’t mind buying the tomes, it happens rarely enough that the two seconds to pop into my inventory to click them aren’t a big deal. What I mind is that the duplicates, when they occur (especially via accidental purchase due to lousy UI but loot and quest rewards too) are not useful. Why can’t we teach the extras to our followers? Or make it so reading a spell tome we already know gives us a boost to the relevant magic skill? Or if we can spellcraft in ES6, make one of the creation requirements be an existing spellbook of the same school? There are lots of better, more interesting options than ‘sell it (possibly back) to the merchant for a fraction of the price you would have paid for it.’

    But failing all that, tweak the UI so that I’m not buying duplicates in the first place.

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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls: The XVII Princes of Oblivion

    Quote Originally Posted by Kareeah_Indaga View Post
    These are the ONLY poisons I’ve been using regularly. Stamina drain is only useful against power attacking foes, Magicka drain is only good for spellcasters, but everything uses hitpoints. So I would much rather do the ESO method of putting a big stack of poison into the poison slot of the weapon I’m using and forget about it until it runs out ten fights from now. It’s much less micromanage-y than having to dig through the unfilterable mess of poisons and potions I’m carrying around multiple times per fight, just to find another damage health bottle. I would be willing to put up with a little inefficiency in the form of wasted doses on already-poisoned or immune-to-poison foes to avoid that hassle.

    (Admittedly ESO also has you making x4 the number of poisons for each batch you make compared to potions; wastage isn’t as big a deal when you’re making 16 poisons for each set of ingredients you use.)
    To me, this just says that poisons are too weak and too common and that basic enemies have too much health. +Some damage on hit (semi-)permanently is what weapon enchants are for.

    Also, if you're not using the poisons that don't offer direct damage, why are you carrying so many of them that it's hard to find your damage poisons? They're not so common in loot that this just happens every time you clear a dungeon despite selling all your unwanted poisons whenever you go in to a town.

  21. - Top - End - #591
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls: The XVII Princes of Oblivion

    Quote Originally Posted by Aeson View Post
    To me, this just says that poisons are too weak and too common and that basic enemies have too much health. +Some damage on hit (semi-)permanently is what weapon enchants are for.
    My current character is, as mentioned before, squishy (I found most of my Falmer armor set but her skill with it is low, ergo it’s not as helpful as it should be), so I will take all the damage plusses I can stack on when the enemies get past Lydia and my Frost Atronach meat ice shield. Also enchanting my sword means I can’t improve it farther yet, as my Smithing skill isn’t high enough for that perk, so my most recent sword doesn’t have an enchantment yet.

    (And I need to Soul trap another Mammoth for it, because Wylandria’s gem stole the last one, but that’s a tangent.)

    Tl:dr - it’s just poison right now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aeson View Post
    Also, if you're not using the poisons that don't offer direct damage, why are you carrying so many of them that it's hard to find your damage poisons? They're not so common in loot that this just happens every time you clear a dungeon despite selling all your unwanted poisons whenever you go in to a town.
    • I’ve been fighting the Falmer a lot to get the cool bug heavy armor, so yes I do run across that many poisons.
    • I’m the sort who will pause my rampage through the dungeon to use the Alchemy table in it, so I get more potions/poisons that way, and every time my Alchemy level goes up they take a new slot because the power changes.
    • I haven’t played in a while and I’m not using the wiki for alchemy traits, so there are a lot of weird combo/sell only potions and poisons in there from trial and error.
    • And yes, I do want to sell the unneeded ones at some point, so I’m holding on to them until then and not dumping them on the ground at random.

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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls: The XVII Princes of Oblivion

    If you're having trouble finding and sorting out your potions and poisons, there are mods to help you with that.

    And if you want a permanent damage boost to your weapons, then I suggest focusing obsessively on training up smithing. It's the easiest way to achieve that early. And it'll help with your armour as well.

    Edit: As for spell tomes, I've seen a couple of mods that add gameplay around them. One that requires you to find a quiet, safe place and spend time reading the tome, in several sessions, to learn the spell. Another, probably more in line with the Skyrim ethos, uses a tome of a known spell to upgrade the spell to a more powerful version.

    So there are ways to make tomes worthwhile. Maybe TES6 could do something with them.
    Last edited by veti; 2022-01-19 at 01:48 PM.

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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls: The XVII Princes of Oblivion

    UI changes won't solve self-inflicted problems. If you're finding your weapons and armor inadequate and you're refusing to upgrade them because you could upgrade them more later or are using something that you lack the skill to use effectively because of how it looks, that's on you, and changing poisons in such a manner as to make them in effect just another weapon enchant just so that you can keep using your cool-looking but ineffective equipment is in my opinion a change that's harmful to the game.

    Also, why aren't you upgrading your weapon? It's not like all the weapons in Skyrim are unique and irreplaceable masterworks the likes of which cannot be found anywhere in the world; most of them can be found by the armload in any dungeon with the right type of enemies or crafted in quantities limited only by your patience and the resources you have at hand.

  24. - Top - End - #594
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls: The XVII Princes of Oblivion

    Quote Originally Posted by veti View Post
    If you're having trouble finding and sorting out your potions and poisons, there are mods to help you with that.
    Thank you, but I’m trying to go mod-free for now. Once I get bored with the base game again, then I might branch out. Also, some of this critiquing is with an eye towards what I do and don’t want to see in ES6 - admittedly not likely to affect it, but it keeps me interested when things get buggy.

    Quote Originally Posted by veti View Post
    And if you want a permanent damage boost to your weapons, then I suggest focusing obsessively on training up smithing. It's the easiest way to achieve that early. And it'll help with your armour as well.
    I am. That’s why the enchanting has been a bit problematic (I’m about ten skill levels shy of the perk to upgrade enchanted items).

    Quote Originally Posted by Aeson View Post
    UI changes won't solve self-inflicted problems. If you're finding your weapons and armor inadequate and you're refusing to upgrade them because you could upgrade them more later or are using something that you lack the skill to use effectively because of how it looks, that's on you, and changing poisons in such a manner as to make them in effect just another weapon enchant just so that you can keep using your cool-looking but ineffective equipment is in my opinion a change that's harmful to the game.
    You’re inventing problems, here, and seem to have skipped over a chunk of what I wrote. Suffice to say I disagree; it’s a bad UI and the next game should do it better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aeson View Post
    Also, why aren't you upgrading your weapon?
    See above.

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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls: The XVII Princes of Oblivion

    Quote Originally Posted by Kareeah_Indaga View Post
    See above.
    What, that you don't have a Mammoth's soul and lack the Arcane Smithing perk? See: Self-inflicted problem (refusal to upgrade a weapon now because you could upgrade it more later). You're feeling that your weapon's performance is inadequate, so upgrade it with what you have available. Even if you're well and truly attached to having a specific weapon model, it isn't like you can't just go get another copy of it by visiting the local shop, crafting it yourself, or raiding a nearby dungeon once you have the materials/skills to do better for most of the weapon models in Skyrim.
    Last edited by Aeson; 2022-01-19 at 03:46 PM.

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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls: The XVII Princes of Oblivion

    Skyrim's UI also had the fault of being black and white. Oblivion was a console UI, but, at least, it was easy to read. It actually pains me that Microsoft is still following this B&W UI concept in some elements (like the system tray), when close to all screens are colour.
    Quote Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1955
    I thought Tom Bombadil dreadful — but worse still was the announcer's preliminary remarks that Goldberry was his daughter (!), and that Willowman was an ally of Mordor (!!).

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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls: The XVII Princes of Oblivion

    Quote Originally Posted by Kareeah_Indaga View Post
    Things I want in Elder Scrolls 6 UI:
    [*]Some indication for ‘you already know this spell’ or ‘you already learned this enchantment’ when I’m looking at a spellbook/enchanted item. I’m tired of buying spellbooks only to find it was for a spell I started the game with, and carrying (heavy!) swords and armor across town twice when I find out it’s safe to sell.
    The "you have already read this book" tag in the later editions of Witcher One was a huge improvement.
    The end of what Son? The story? There is no end. There's just the point where the storytellers stop talking.

  28. - Top - End - #598
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls: The XVII Princes of Oblivion

    Quote Originally Posted by Aeson View Post
    What, that you don't have a Mammoth's soul and lack the Arcane Smithing perk? See: Self-inflicted problem (refusal to upgrade a weapon now because you could upgrade it more later).
    I’m still not following your leap of logic for how ‘I don’t have the materials to enchant my sword’ is somehow self-inflicted, unless you expect me to console-command in a filled Soul Gem. Sorry, but I want to actually play the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aeson View Post
    You're feeling that your weapon's performance is inadequate, so upgrade it with what you have available.
    I am; I’m throwing poison on it to boost the damage, hence the complaints about the terrible Skyrim UI.

  29. - Top - End - #599
    Librarian in the Playground Moderator
     
    LibraryOgre's Avatar

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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls: The XVII Princes of Oblivion

    Quote Originally Posted by Kareeah_Indaga View Post
    Some indication for ‘you already know this spell’ or ‘you already learned this enchantment’ when I’m looking at a spellbook/enchanted item. I’m tired of buying spellbooks only to find it was for a spell I started the game with, and carrying (heavy!) swords and armor across town twice when I find out it’s safe to sell.
    For the spells, at least, that's part of SkyUI as well... Tomes are Books, and it will show you books you have already read.
    The Cranky Gamer
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  30. - Top - End - #600
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls: The XVII Princes of Oblivion

    I've long since forgotten that was a SKyUI feature and not a base one. There are people who don't use SkyUI these days?

    And if you don't, as in you're playing a purely vanilla game...why is it an issue? There are like 30 spells in Skyrim, it shouldn't be that hard to remember which ones you know lol.

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