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  1. - Top - End - #121
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    Kobold

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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls: The XVII Princes of Oblivion

    Quote Originally Posted by Triaxx View Post
    Stone puzzle is more timing than anything. Pop WS just as the last stone lights.
    I don't think the timing is that critical. I sprint, and press 'z' somewhere around the first or second stone, and I'm through.

    If you can't align straight, though (what sort of controller are you using?), that would be more problematic.

    Edit:
    Quote Originally Posted by Kareeah_Indaga View Post
    Apparently there is going to be an Anniversary Edition of Skyrim. *headdesk*
    Oh noes... "Comes with Creation Club content for free..."

    The only way to disable that... stuff, as far as I've found, is to go into your data folder and manually delete the BSAs. Assuming you can even identify them, of course.

    They really, seriously, need to make some kind of mod management function, because the CC content I've seen is... let's say, not so great that I'm going to want it as a part of the base game forevermore.
    Last edited by veti; 2021-08-22 at 05:33 PM.
    "None of us likes to be hated, none of us likes to be shunned. A natural result of these conditions is, that we consciously or unconsciously pay more attention to tuning our opinions to our neighbor’s pitch and preserving his approval than we do to examining the opinions searchingly and seeing to it that they are right and sound." - Mark Twain

  2. - Top - End - #122
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls: The XVII Princes of Oblivion

    Quote Originally Posted by veti View Post
    Oh noes... "Comes with Creation Club content for free..."

    The only way to disable that... stuff, as far as I've found, is to go into your data folder and manually delete the BSAs. Assuming you can even identify them, of course.

    They really, seriously, need to make some kind of mod management function, because the CC content I've seen is... let's say, not so great that I'm going to want it as a part of the base game forevermore.
    My only hope is that the existence of the Creation Club will inspire them to make the Creation Kit controls more robust, intuitive, less buggy, and allover better for Elder Scrolls 6. But I suspect if they do that it will also lead to the removal of free mods, or at best make them no longer officially sanctioned.

    I hope not. But it seems like the sort of stupid short-sighted thing Bethesda would do.

  3. - Top - End - #123
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls: The XVII Princes of Oblivion

    Quote Originally Posted by Kareeah_Indaga View Post
    My only hope is that the existence of the Creation Club will inspire them to make the Creation Kit controls more robust, intuitive, less buggy, and allover better for Elder Scrolls 6. But I suspect if they do that it will also lead to the removal of free mods, or at best make them no longer officially sanctioned.

    I hope not. But it seems like the sort of stupid short-sighted thing Bethesda would do.
    The last time they tried to touch the accessibility of mods, the community rioted. Even if they do try it again, i doubt it will stick at all.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  4. - Top - End - #124
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls: The XVII Princes of Oblivion

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    The last time they tried to touch the accessibility of mods, the community rioted. Even if they do try it again, i doubt it will stick at all.
    Wasn't that the paid mods that was the precursor to the Creation Club?

  5. - Top - End - #125
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls: The XVII Princes of Oblivion

    Quote Originally Posted by Kareeah_Indaga View Post
    Wasn't that the paid mods that was the precursor to the Creation Club?
    Yeah. And look at how small all the CC content is.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  6. - Top - End - #126
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls: The XVII Princes of Oblivion

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    Yeah. And look at how small all the CC content is.
    ...It's been so long since I played I can't actually find the thing. Is this a definitive list?

  7. - Top - End - #127
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls: The XVII Princes of Oblivion

    Quote Originally Posted by Kareeah_Indaga View Post
    ...It's been so long since I played I can't actually find the thing. Is this a definitive list?
    No idea. It looks right, but i havent ever cared enough to try and find every last one.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  8. - Top - End - #128
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    Kobold

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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls: The XVII Princes of Oblivion

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    The last time they tried to touch the accessibility of mods, the community rioted. Even if they do try it again, i doubt it will stick at all.
    That was, transparently, exactly what the Creation Club was invented for. Bethesda is itching for a slice of the action from the mod 'market', and it tried to make a grab for it but found "the community" wasn't ready for that.

    Yet.

    Creation Club is there to help us get used to the idea. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised* to learn that that's why there's still no sign of a release date for for TESVI: they're still softening us up for that grab, they don't want to announce the new game until they're sure a large enough part of "the community" will accept those terms.


    * Appalled, yes. Saddened, definitely. Sickened, absolutely. But not surprised.
    "None of us likes to be hated, none of us likes to be shunned. A natural result of these conditions is, that we consciously or unconsciously pay more attention to tuning our opinions to our neighbor’s pitch and preserving his approval than we do to examining the opinions searchingly and seeing to it that they are right and sound." - Mark Twain

  9. - Top - End - #129
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls: The XVII Princes of Oblivion

    Quote Originally Posted by veti View Post
    Creation Club is there to help us get used to the idea. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised* to learn that that's why there's still no sign of a release date for for TESVI: they're still softening us up for that grab, they don't want to announce the new game until they're sure a large enough part of "the community" will accept those terms.
    Part of that might be ESO too. As long as they’re churning out Crown Store reskins and the occasional DLC, they keep the Elder Scrolls brand in peoples’ minds, so there’s no rush from a marketing standpoint.

  10. - Top - End - #130
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls: The XVII Princes of Oblivion

    Honestly I believe their stated reasons for not announcing TES VI yet. They were kinda bored stiff and needed a new IP to work on.

    I don't doubt that their paid mods bull**** is far from over, but multiple things can be true at once. It wouldn't make any sense for them to delay release of their flagship franchise for a bit of extra CC money when it can remain a lingering threat to be added into DLC, rereleases, and the next one
    Last edited by Rynjin; 2021-08-23 at 06:38 AM.

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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls: The XVII Princes of Oblivion

    Quote Originally Posted by veti View Post
    I don't think the timing is that critical. I sprint, and press 'z' somewhere around the first or second stone, and I'm through.

    If you can't align straight, though (what sort of controller are you using?), that would be more problematic.
    Controller? :3

    Alignment is probably the wrong word. Timing! That was probably word I was looking for. I never remember the right spot to hit Whirlwind, so I usually slam right into the first or second gate a few times before it comes to me and I pass.


    Meanwhile, the skeletal remains of Mirmulnir (the first dragon you fight) moved into the Whiterun stables and that never stops being amusing to pass by.
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  12. - Top - End - #132
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    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls: The XVII Princes of Oblivion

    Quote Originally Posted by DigoDragon View Post
    Controller? :3
    Keyboard and mouse is still a type of controller.

  13. - Top - End - #133
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls: The XVII Princes of Oblivion

    Nothing short of total bankruptcy was going to prevent another Elder Scrolls, and possibly not even that.

    Will we see paid mods again? Probably. i'd guess we'll see them with Starfield. But with Xbox exclusivity we should see the more draconian measures lifted. I'm still convinced that they were there only to appease Sony to getmods on the PlayStation.
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  14. - Top - End - #134
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    Kobold

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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls: The XVII Princes of Oblivion

    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
    Honestly I believe their stated reasons for not announcing TES VI yet. They were kinda bored stiff and needed a new IP to work on.
    If they're bored with Skyrim, that can only be because they keep re-releasing it. Actual development was finished, done, tested and signed off more than ten years ago.

    How many of the people who worked on it originally are even still at Bethesda?
    Last edited by veti; 2021-08-23 at 03:54 PM.

  15. - Top - End - #135
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls: The XVII Princes of Oblivion

    Quote Originally Posted by veti View Post
    If they're bored with Skyrim, that can only be because they keep re-releasing it. Actual development was finished, done, tested and signed off more than ten years ago.

    How many of the people who worked on it originally are even still at Bethesda?
    This is a good question. Turnover at software companies tends to be high.

    Regardless, it's been ten years (call it eight if we count from Dragonborn's release). If they're still bored of it after almost a decade, maybe hire a new team of people to work on it? It's been long enough now they're probably going to need a new game engine or one upgraded into unrecognizability anyway, so you'd need to re-train all the old hands if you didn't hire new people who already have the skillset.

  16. - Top - End - #136
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls: The XVII Princes of Oblivion

    Ugh. At this point I'm hoping they get a new engine and it's so locked down and unmodable it kills modding. Just so I can rub noses in it. But that's just frustration talking.
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  17. - Top - End - #137
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls: The XVII Princes of Oblivion

    Quote Originally Posted by Triaxx View Post
    Ugh. At this point I'm hoping they get a new engine and it's so locked down and unmodable it kills modding. Just so I can rub noses in it. But that's just frustration talking.
    Modding is THE attracting feature for elder scrolls. Its no longer the only member of its genre, and its not especially good at base without that. Locking out mods would kill the game.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  18. - Top - End - #138
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls: The XVII Princes of Oblivion

    Quote Originally Posted by Kareeah_Indaga View Post
    This is a good question. Turnover at software companies tends to be high.

    Regardless, it's been ten years (call it eight if we count from Dragonborn's release). If they're still bored of it after almost a decade, maybe hire a new team of people to work on it? It's been long enough now they're probably going to need a new game engine or one upgraded into unrecognizability anyway, so you'd need to re-train all the old hands if you didn't hire new people who already have the skillset.
    They haven't just been bored, they've been working on new IPs, like Starfield. Not like they've been completely sitting on their hands lol, even if we all wish we could forget about 76.

  19. - Top - End - #139
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls: The XVII Princes of Oblivion

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    Modding is THE attracting feature for elder scrolls. Its no longer the only member of its genre, and its not especially good at base without that. Locking out mods would kill the game.
    And that is why Gopher has said a number of times that they'll never disable free modding, because no one wants to kill their own game.

  20. - Top - End - #140
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls: The XVII Princes of Oblivion

    I'm not very clear on where the Zenimax and Bethesda dev teams begin and end, but we have had Skyrim in 2011, ESO in 2014, then an ESO expansion every year from 2017 until today. They definitely haven't been idle with the Elder Scrolls IP. Now they are developing this Starfield thing, which isn't just a game, it's a whole IP that must be at the same level of Elder Scrolls; and the TES IP setting started out pretty undescribed with Arena and built itself up over four games and eight years before it reached Morrowind levels.
    BTW, Starfield is meant to launch on 11 November 2022, which obviously brings back Skyrim memories -- and the hope they actually take the time to fix the writing and come out with a really complete experience.

    About mods, I don't really have much against paid mods. I see lots of modders asking for donations. A studio allowing a modder to legally make a profit from a mod to which the studio participates looks OK to me, it's like having a freelance external developer. The much lauded Black Mesa is just that, and Valve's decision to sell it on Steam is seen as a generous act of support. I only see two problems: one related to the QA and compatibility fixes that mods usually lack and I would expect from a paid product, the other is the perspective that e.g. Bethesda may change the rules to only allow for paid mods sold through its store (highly unlikely), or make the CK a paid product (also unlikely). And of course, one can debate the share paid to the external developer for his work.

    It is however undeniable that there is a huge cultural difference between hobbyist modding and corporate microtransaction complete with pre-paid no-refunds (on Steam) in-store fake money. Actually, I have been wondering: have microtransactions supplanted farming and trading items, accounts and credits for real money in online games? Because they look like the more efficient, corporate version of that practice.

    Of course, as a user, I prefer mods being free. But I'd really prefer everything I want being free.
    Quote Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1955
    I thought Tom Bombadil dreadful — but worse still was the announcer's preliminary remarks that Goldberry was his daughter (!), and that Willowman was an ally of Mordor (!!).

  21. - Top - End - #141
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls: The XVII Princes of Oblivion

    ESO is an entirely different dev team from the usual Bethesda team.

    As for paid mods, make no mistake it would kill the modding scene. Yes, modders do deserve to have some avenue for compensation or their work. That's why donations exist.

    But having corporate hooks in that means the corporation can impose their values and restrictions on the mod. Because it has then become a "product". A lot of modders (most?) don't want to be employees by any other name. Some do; their avenue is then to get hired. Making that hiring process pipeline easier would be laudable. Commoditizing mods is not.

  22. - Top - End - #142
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls: The XVII Princes of Oblivion

    Quote Originally Posted by Vinyadan View Post
    About mods, I don't really have much against paid mods. I see lots of modders asking for donations. A studio allowing a modder to legally make a profit from a mod to which the studio participates looks OK to me, it's like having a freelance external developer. The much lauded Black Mesa is just that, and Valve's decision to sell it on Steam is seen as a generous act of support. I only see two problems: one related to the QA and compatibility fixes that mods usually lack and I would expect from a paid product, the other is the perspective that e.g. Bethesda may change the rules to only allow for paid mods sold through its store (highly unlikely), or make the CK a paid product (also unlikely). And of course, one can debate the share paid to the external developer for his work.
    Thing is, though - these are not just abstract, theoretical, alarmist concerns. They are firmly rooted in Bethesda's own past actions with this very franchise.

    I don't object to the idea of paid mods. When Bethesda launched the Creation Club, it made all the right noises and lots of the right promises: about "most mods" remaining free, about sharing proceeds with the creators, but also about quality assurance, integration and support. I don't know how the "sharing" works out, but I imagine it's working as advertised because if not we would have heard about it by now; but the rest of those promises turned out to be worthless.

    Free mods? There are precisely none on CC, except when some is temporarily set to free as a promotion. QA, support? Yeah. I've tried one piece of CC content, when it was made available as a promo, and it was dreadful - on Nexus it would have sunk rapidly into well deserved obscurity. (It gave me a new quest - which appeared instantly in my journal, not even bothering to wait for the courier or for me to hear a rumour. The quest itself was a brief and not very interesting dungeon, and the reward at the end was game-breakingly overpowered.)

    But the real quality only showed through when I tried to disable (or, failing that, delete) this mod. Turns out, that operation was not supported. At all. As far as Bethesda was concerned, I'd taken the decision to add this crap to my game, and now it was, for me, forever part of the core experience. I deleted the BSA, but as any modder knows, that's neither a clean nor a safe way to remove a mod.

    I think there is a faction within Bethesda that wants to do the right thing by modders. It's an influential faction, and because its views are so cuddly and reassuring it's allowed to write and make most of the public pronouncements on the subject. But there's also a faction that sees mods as an ongoing revenue stream to be maximised (and costs to be minimised). And this faction is, ultimately, more powerful - they are, clearly, in a position to starve resources to the CC effort - and likely to prevail.
    Last edited by veti; 2021-08-24 at 09:18 PM.

  23. - Top - End - #143
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls: The XVII Princes of Oblivion

    Not too long ago I'd have held up nexus as a shiny example of how to do it right. Sadly it's now nothing more than another example of paid mods but this time no revenue will go to the modders. Shame.

    Some modders have gone to modsinexile.com but it'll take so long to gain traction it's doomed to failure before it's started.
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls: The XVII Princes of Oblivion

    Quote Originally Posted by Triaxx View Post
    Not too long ago I'd have held up nexus as a shiny example of how to do it right. Sadly it's now nothing more than another example of paid mods but this time no revenue will go to the modders. Shame.

    Some modders have gone to modsinexile.com but it'll take so long to gain traction it's doomed to failure before it's started.
    What's happened with Nexus?
    Quote Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1955
    I thought Tom Bombadil dreadful — but worse still was the announcer's preliminary remarks that Goldberry was his daughter (!), and that Willowman was an ally of Mordor (!!).

  25. - Top - End - #145
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls: The XVII Princes of Oblivion

    Short answer they got greedy.

    Long answer they started making modpacks they call collections which isn't bad on the surface but in order to stop them from breaking they removed the ability for authors to delete their own mods. Which doesnct look good but even versions 'removed' are still accesible to the API to download them. But free users have to manually visit pages to download the mods. Paid users skip that step rendering them the only one's able to get those archived versions, and also robbing the mod authors of potential donations from page visitors.

    Suffice to say they looked at Bethesda, and said we can even screw up better. Great Success!
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  26. - Top - End - #146
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls: The XVII Princes of Oblivion

    Quote Originally Posted by Triaxx View Post
    Short answer they got greedy.

    Long answer they started making modpacks they call collections which isn't bad on the surface but in order to stop them from breaking they removed the ability for authors to delete their own mods. Which doesnct look good but even versions 'removed' are still accesible to the API to download them. But free users have to manually visit pages to download the mods. Paid users skip that step rendering them the only one's able to get those archived versions, and also robbing the mod authors of potential donations from page visitors.

    Suffice to say they looked at Bethesda, and said we can even screw up better. Great Success!
    I’m abruptly very glad I never finished my feature-kudzu’d mess of a mod.

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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls: The XVII Princes of Oblivion

    Quote Originally Posted by Triaxx View Post
    Short answer they got greedy.

    Long answer they started making modpacks they call collections which isn't bad on the surface but in order to stop them from breaking they removed the ability for authors to delete their own mods. Which doesnct look good but even versions 'removed' are still accesible to the API to download them. But free users have to manually visit pages to download the mods. Paid users skip that step rendering them the only one's able to get those archived versions, and also robbing the mod authors of potential donations from page visitors.

    Suffice to say they looked at Bethesda, and said we can even screw up better. Great Success!
    Lol, modpacks always make people angry in new and exciting ways

    Am I remembering wrong, or Nexus once used to be completely paywalled, while Planet Elder Scrolls used to be the free one? I think I remember when Nexus had a golden saint in its banner.
    Quote Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1955
    I thought Tom Bombadil dreadful — but worse still was the announcer's preliminary remarks that Goldberry was his daughter (!), and that Willowman was an ally of Mordor (!!).

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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls: The XVII Princes of Oblivion

    Quote Originally Posted by Vinyadan View Post
    Lol, modpacks always make people angry in new and exciting ways

    Am I remembering wrong, or Nexus once used to be completely paywalled, while Planet Elder Scrolls used to be the free one? I think I remember when Nexus had a golden saint in its banner.
    I've been using Nexus for....forever and I don't think it was ever paywalled. I certainly never paid anything for it. They certainly ask for money constantly, but you can say no.

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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls: The XVII Princes of Oblivion

    I would have been okay with it had they done one of the two obvious fixes. Either allow opting out. Or make the packs cost and profit share with the authors. They were already paying via points this would have been a reasonable step.

    But no their response was to double down on their 'you no take mods' stance and royally tick people off.
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    Default Re: The Elder Scrolls: The XVII Princes of Oblivion

    Just finished Meridia's dang beacon quest. It's all fun and looting until the boss starts force-lightning you in the face around corners. If it weren't for the fact the Artifacts of Skyrim makes Dawnbreaker worth it... well, it wouldn't be worth it. XD

    Someone remind me, does entering a dungeon location lock that dungeon's level to yours at the time you enter?
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