So am I crazy, or is Stargate Universe actually awesome? (No spoilers please!)

[Amaril]

Near the start of the pandemic, my fiancée and I embarked on a project of watching the entire run of Stargate in chronological order, from SG-1 onward (we initially neglected the feature film and didn't feel like going back for it at the time; we'll probably watch it at the very end as a farewell to the franchise). She'd watched episodes of SG-1 as a kid, and I had fond memories of Atlantis from when I was in junior high. We've now finished both, and just last night watched the first three episodes of Universe in one sitting. I'd been sort of dreading this part, since I'd heard Universe was the bad Stargate series; my fiancée convinced me that we had to watch it anyway to complete our journey, and even if it was terrible, we could have fun ripping it apart.

So far, we love it. Yeah, right from the beginning it was clear this wasn't the same Stargate we were used to, and it's really not subtle about being a Battlestar ripoff, but still, we were hooked almost immediately. I watched Battlestar when I was younger (probably too young), and I can't help comparing Universe to that, and for the moment, I can confidently say I like Universe a lot better. The characters all seem believable and are at least interesting if not likable, the premise of the Destiny is instantly intriguing, and despite going for a much darker tone than the other series, it doesn't feel edgy or senselessly provocative to me so far (which is something I wouldn't say about Battlestar looking back at it now, though maybe I'd feel differently about it if I watched it again). The shaky cam is pretty annoying, but eh, I can deal.

Maybe it gets worse later on, but right now I can't help but wonder, were people just unhappy that it was so different from SG-1 and Atlantis? Not that I can't understand that feeling, but in my case, I've pretty much had my fill of those series, and I'm totally okay with Universe doing a different thing as long as it does it well. Is that what's happening, or am I in for a rude awakening?

[JadedDM]

Full disclosure: I've never seen Stargate Universe or Stargate Infinity, but I did see the original movie, and all of SG-1 and Atlantis.

The main reason I never watched Universe was, yes, I heard it was terrible. I'd probably give it a shot now, if I had the time and knew what platform is currently streaming it.

Anyway, my memory is foggy, but I seem to recall at the time of its release the biggest beef people had with the show was that it was far too focused on personal relationship drama and the passing around of the idiot ball to further the plot. There was a clip in SG-1's '200' that people would point to and say, "Wow, that basically is how Universe turned out."



(Take a look at the comments on that video, and you'll see what I mean.)

Now how much truth is there in that? I can't say, because I never watched it. I probably will some day, though, just to see if it's as bad as everyone says.

[Rodin]

Universe is an odd duck. It has a really strong start with a premise that is sufficient to carry a series - instead of a group of top professionals you have a mix of misfit military, scientists who did not sign up for away team missions, and outright civilians. Instead of the widely connected universe of the main show the gate is gonna open in essentially random places, and the team has to go through no matter how insanely dangerous. So far, so good.

The problem is that the show goes too far down the Battlestar rabbit hole. There is too much character drama for a show that's supposed to be about exploring space and finding the supplies needed to survive. It becomes unbelievable after a certain point, and a lot of the drama is crappy relationship drama to boot. I'm not watching the show to find out whether Bob is sleeping with Alice against Carl's wishes - I'm watching to see if all 3 of them can find a way to get past the pan-dimensional liquid beast to restock their water supplies.

Despite all of that, there are some good episodes. I'd say it's worth plowing through what's there (there isn't much, only a couple seasons) to make sure you catch the good episodes. It was also starting to improve when flagging ratings caused the cancellation. It's not like Voyager, which abandoned the premise and went with mediocrity instead. Instead, it bounced from good episode to yelling at your TV bad.

In retrospect, I actually found the later seasons of Atlantis to be worse than Universe. At least the Universe crew were meant to be a bunch of screw-ups.

[JadedDM]

In retrospect, I actually found the later seasons of Atlantis to be worse than Universe. At least the Universe crew were meant to be a bunch of screw-ups.

Oh, yeah, I loved early Atlantis. But the latter episodes really started to get on my nerves. Some of the choices they made really made me question whether they could rightly be called the good guys or not.

I think that was another reason I never bothered with Universe. By the time Atlantis was done, I had a bit of a sour taste in my mouth.

[Rynjin]

Universe watches like a CW show from the same era, except it's hard to see anything because the sets are so damn dark.

[Thrudd]

I liked Universe a lot, especially the early part of the show. I was sad when it got cancelled. It is a much different vibe than the other Stargate shows, and I loved the harder sci-fi elements in the first season. I surmise it was trying to borrow some of what made BSG so popular with the complexity of the characters, and I don't think that was a bad thing. I also got a vibe of AC Clarke and Fred Pohl style sci-fi later in the series and I really wanted to see where they wanted to go had the show not been canned.

[Rakaydos]

By about half way throught the first season, the characters manage to get ahead of the "old ship is falling apart" problems and can focus on bigger issues. By the end of the second season, they've discovered desiny's purpose (still uncompleted) and have a plausable (though not easy) means by which cast changes can happen. Then the show got canceled before they could pursue the larger questions.

[KillianHawkeye]

I agree that Stargate Universe wasn't so great, but neither were the first two seasons of SG-1 or any of the 80s/90s/00s Star Trek shows. This was a time period when most sci-fi shows needed two seasons to really establish themselves and figure out what they were doing, and SGU just didn't get the chance to do it. And while it's totally fair to criticize it for being a big departure from what fans liked about the other Stargate series, it really did get cancelled just when it was getting good. Personally, I blame the SyFy channel for their otherwise terrible programming and catering to the lowest common denominator.

[Rynjin]

That argument might hold water if SGU hadn't come out during a point when the channel had some of the best programming it ever had. Eureka, Warehouse 13, Merlin, Sanctuary, Lost Girl, etc. were all shows SGU was competing with, and every single one of them was infinitely more entertaining from the word go. Some, like Lost Girl and Sanctuary turned to **** later in, but they didn't have the growing pains SGU obviously had, and there was frankly no guarantee it actually would have improved significantly.

[Rodin]

Oh, yeah, I loved early Atlantis. But the latter episodes really started to get on my nerves. Some of the choices they made really made me question whether they could rightly be called the good guys or not.

I think that was another reason I never bothered with Universe. By the time Atlantis was done, I had a bit of a sour taste in my mouth.

The point where I stopped watching Atlantis was when they got put on trial for everything they'd done in the series. It was meant to be similar to the Senator Kinsey episode in the first season of SG-1, where someone with an agenda comes in to shut our noble heroes down.

...Except this time, I agreed with the prosecutor. The galaxy would have been better off if the Atlantis team had stayed in the Milky Way. Heck, even the episode failed to rebut the argument - if I recall correctly they got out of it by bribing one judge and exposing corruption in another without ever addressing the facts of the case.

I think this is in large part why Universe failed as hard as it did. SG-1 had either finished or was in its final seasons, which were a significant drop in quality over the rest of the show. Atlantis was past its good seasons and into episodes that were divisive at best. And then along comes this experimental show with a different tone to the rest of the franchise.

There simply wasn't any more goodwill from the fans. It didn't help that this took place during the dawn of streaming when the money men didn't count anything other than live viewership. A dedicated fan watching over the web or through DVR was not counted in the statistics at all.

[JadedDM]

I actually found Universe on Hulu. Watched the first episode. Ming-na Wen is in this? Dang, I would have started watching way sooner had I known that.

[Chen]

The ridiculous inconsistency of how they used the magic stones pissed me off. You could get ANYONE from the SGC on the line whenever they wanted to and yet when they had life threatening problems they didn’t call in Carter or McKay? Or hell they didn’t even call in a proper doctor or surgeon when they needed one and instead used a less trained “medic” for emergency medical issues.

[Ramza00]

Stargate was not big enough (yet) in breadth, when they tried the Universe tv show. Too much was changed too fast.

As a metaphor, take for example Batman in 1939. A character with 82 years of History over so many different styles and genres. SG1 is like doing Batman TV Show (1966 and 1968) and Atlantis is like doing the Joel Schumacher Batman wirh Batman Forever plus Batman and Robin. And what did Stargate Universe tried? It went straight to Christopher and Jonathan Nolan Batman without the connective tissue of all those other comics, movies, tv shows, etc.

Maybe with some other things happening between SG1 in 2007 and SGU in 2009 could have Universe thrived.

We got what we got for MGM was near bankruptcy then and also the writer’s strike. Thus things were rushed into production for IP was the only thing keeping MGM afloat.

[Thrudd]

Stargate was not big enough (yet) in breadth, when they tried the Universe tv show. Too much was changed too fast.

As a metaphor, take for example Batman in 1939. A character with 82 years of History over so many different styles and genres. SG1 is like doing Batman TV Show (1966 and 1968) and Atlantis is like doing the Joel Schumacher Batman wirh Batman Forever plus Batman and Robin. And what did Stargate Universe tried? It went straight to Christopher and Jonathan Nolan Batman without the connective tissue of all those other comics, movies, tv shows, etc.

Maybe with some other things happening between SG1 in 2007 and SGU in 2009 could have Universe thrived.

We got what we got for MGM was near bankruptcy then and also the writer’s strike. Thus things were rushed into production for IP was the only thing keeping MGM afloat.

That's true. I believe Universe suffered due to the drastic shift in tone from the other shows in the franchise, not giving established fans what they expected. A friend of mine who was a big SG1 fan said exactly that when it was airing. It helped my enjoyment that I wasn't a big fan of the other shows and hadn't watched them much beforehand. It might have been better as a standalone series.

[AdmiralCheez]

I remember not liking it because it was so similar in tone to Battlestar, overuse of unnecessary character and relationship drama, and the communication stones that ruined any of that feel of being stuck on a ship alone. It's hard to have that tension when you can magically pop back to earth whenever you want to have a chat or get something to eat. I was also hating it on principle because they cancelled both SG-1 and Atlantis prematurely, only to put this on the air not even a year after the end of Atlantis. It just seemed like an insult to the fans of the franchise to do that.

That said, I'm coincidentally rewatching Universe again as well, and I'll say it's much better when you binge it a couple episodes a day, instead of waiting once a week for it. Still not the show I wanted, nor does it really feel like a Stargate show, but it's not as bad as I once thought.

[russdm]

I watched the whole series and wanted to see how it goes from where it left off. It really felt like it was the good show of the SG1 franchise. For some reason to me. I didn't get into SG1 much any, I was busy with the star trek franchise and a little bit of Babylon 5.

I have seen the old 1980s Battlestar Galactica and I have seen the new one. I would say that universe is like the new Battlestar.

Always liked Dr. Rush more than the military colonel guy and Eli, and lt james played by julie bensen (we met her when she is making out with that lieutenant guy that colonel military guy calls for in the first episode when the visitors arrive) also the black guy sergeant

[Corvus]

I enjoyed it too. And it got better in the second season as well, and then went and got axed when its potential was starting to show.

And Master Sergeant Greer was just awesome. Best character on the show.

[Thomas Cardew]

I never watched it. I started watching Stargate in Atlantis S1 then caught up on SG1. I tried the first few episodes when it came out but the DRAMA, BSG vibe, and being SG- voyager just killed any interest I had. Rush was the only watchable part of it for me, just like Mr. Gold was the only good part of Once upon a Time. But niether was enough to carry either show for me. The fact that they killed the declining but still watchable SGA to make it was just the final straw.

[Algeh]

I liked Stargate Universe, but I'd taken a long break from watching anything in the franchise when I happened to pick it up in reruns. I'd seen the original Stargate movie and a few seasons of the first Stargate TV show (back when it was on Showtime, my dad would tape it and I'd watch it when I came over to his house). We lost track of it between seasons and then I didn't pay attention to any of the later seasons or Atlantis, so I was coming in with very little idea of the established lore past the starting premise from so long before or any real attachment to the franchise.


What I liked:

Wide range of characters. I particularly liked that the characters were played by actors who all looked sufficiently different from each other that I could tell the characters apart, which is often not the case for me in large ensemble shows. (I often have a problem where there are, for example, three different characters played by similar-looking white guys with short brown hair of the same age and body type, and it will take me a long time to figure out who is who.) It helped that people tended to stay in the same outfits as well.

Premise that allowed for both on-going plotlines about the people on the ship/discovering new areas/functions/purposes of the ship and one-off "planet/problem of the week" stories with a built-in explanation of why we can't just go back to the previously-visited planet from six episodes ago that could solve the current problem.

I also liked that the premise included far too few people/resources on the ship to be able to do all the exploring at once. (So it made sense that they didn't have the whole ship mapped out after a week and could keep finding new things as time went on.)

Some of the individual episodes were pretty interesting, but I'll avoid mentioning anything specific about them because spoilers.


What I didn't like:

Three different kinds of "travel magic" is a lot to keep track of (Stargates, stones, whatever the ship was doing as it went forward from system to system), and remember which can do what. Each had different abilities and constraints, but I think the show would have been better off without the stones and instead some other, more limited, way to communicate back home (or no way to do so). I think I would have preferred making up something that allowed for asynchronous messaging with some kind of multi-hour time delay, so that they could get advice about larger, ongoing problems but nothing immediately useful when something came up suddenly. I realize that they wanted something that made it easy to bring in guest stars from previous series, but it just felt like one thing too many to keep track of in terms of tools they have to throw at the plot. (Were the stones new in Universe? Or an established Stargate thing that I missed because I missed so much of the middle?)

There were some specific plot arcs that I didn't like, but not getting into those either due to spoilers.


I later tried to watch Atlantis, and it felt like a less-well-done version of Universe. (I got through first season and part of second, looked ahead on a wiki to see when/if character-I-was-interested-in would rejoin the show, discovered he wouldn't, and decided to leave it there since it also happened to be a time in my life when it'd become more annoying to try to make time for a TV show.) I think the shows were probably a little too close in premise but different in tone to run one after the other like that.

I also generally prefer shows to have more of an exploration-focus rather than a fighting-a-specific-enemy focus, which is one of those things that were balanced a bit differently between shows. (I also just found the Wraith costuming, make-up, and overall demenour to be cheesy beyond belief right from the start and had trouble taking them seriously. They felt like a 70s/80s Doctor Who villain to me. I don't remember anything that bad from Universe in terms of presentation.)

[Rakaydos]

(Were the stones new in Universe? Or an established Stargate thing that I missed because I missed so much of the middle?)

The stones were a major plot point from seasons 9-10 of SG1, but you're not alone in missing their significance. Seasons nine and ten were written as a spinoff show called Stargate Command, but corporate insisted on keeping the SG1 brand... And it really did feel like a different show, resulting in fan pushback.

I never realized until I went back and watched seasons 9 and 10 after a hiatus that the SGC seasons could actually be good too. Just don't expect SG1 show regulars as anything but cameos. :/

[Amaril]

Okay, we've watched a couple more episodes ("Darkness," parts 1 and 2), and yeah, I'm starting to see what y'all mean about it being Teengate. The whole love triangle thing they're developing with Scott, Eli, and Chloe (I think I have all their names right--the lieutenant, the mathematician, and the senator's daughter) feels a bit out of place. At the same time, though, the characters still feel believable and likable to me, so other than that one bit, I don't really mind so far? I mean, hey, Teengate could actually be fun if it's well-written. Maybe it'll keep getting worse, but I'm trying to keep an open mind.

[Rakaydos]

Okay, we've watched a couple more episodes ("Darkness," parts 1 and 2), and yeah, I'm starting to see what y'all mean about it being Teengate. The whole love triangle thing they're developing with Scott, Eli, and Chloe (I think I have all their names right--the lieutenant, the mathematician, and the senator's daughter) feels a bit out of place. At the same time, though, the characters still feel believable and likable to me, so other than that one bit, I don't really mind so far? I mean, hey, Teengate could actually be fun if it's well-written. Maybe it'll keep getting worse, but I'm trying to keep an open mind.

Wait until you meet Rush's girlfriend.

[Wintermoot]

The stones were a major plot point from seasons 9-10 of SG1, but you're not alone in missing their significance. Seasons nine and ten were written as a spinoff show called Stargate Command, but corporate insisted on keeping the SG1 brand... And it really did feel like a different show, resulting in fan pushback.

I had never heard that, and a quick google search isn't pulling up anything. What's your source for season 9 and 10 supposed to be a different show?

[Silverraptor]

I watched Stargate Universe when it was airing live and I was getting tired of it. I stuck with it because there was an occasional episode that was actually pretty good that kept me around for a few more episodes, then I started losing interest and about to quit, and then they air another good episode. I was sick of all the drama and unbearably bad decisions consistently made. And I hated how any progress they made, when restoring the ship or getting supplies, was almost immediately retconned later and now unavailable forever, usually from stupid drama and decisions. The purpose of stargate was to go from planet to planet and find technologies and supplies that makes the team and group better to encounter more hostile and advanced situations. But stargate universe had them spinning their wheels with only very minor gains. Spoiler here for anyone who doesn't want to know:

Spoiler: Future episode moment

Show

I will never forgive how they teased us, the audience, that they would be able to double to output of the ships weapons, nearly bringing it to full strength when they were facing the prospect of greater space foes, and then they throw all of that way over a childish argument with a childish shove that they could have had literally ANY TIME ELSE OTHER THAN THAT TIME CRITICAL MOMENT!!!!

But yeah, after it was announced to be cancelled, I decided to ride it to the end. And, I'm not going to lie, when they knew they were being cancelled, they went all out in the remaining episodes, AND THEY WERE CONSISTENTLY REALLY GOOD! Seriously, if the writing team was doing what they did at the end of the series throughout the entire series, they would not have been cancelled. It really held my attention right up until the end, and I was yelling at the screen when the final credits showed, "This is the first time you really got me interested on what was to come next, and it's on your last episode, Baka!"

So yeah. It when I heard Universe tried to mimic Battlestar galactica, it convinced me that battlestar galatica was probably not for me.

[Ramza00]

Oh … Brian J Smith (the young Lt in Universe) came out as gay a few years ago. Good for him! I was wondering with the whole triangle thing they had with the show that I did not buy, but he was not out at the time 10 years ago.

[Rakaydos]

I had never heard that, and a quick google search isn't pulling up anything. What's your source for season 9 and 10 supposed to be a different show?

I think this is the right link, but I cant actually view it at work to make sure: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXB24VIexzw

[Ramza00]

I had never heard that, and a quick google search isn't pulling up anything. What's your source for season 9 and 10 supposed to be a different show?

This is extremely complicated so I am going to tell this in reverse order and omit details for it makes more sense in a meta perspective.

Stargate was insanely profitable but also not to the Show money people’s satisfaction. Originally it was a partnership with MGM and Showtime trying to compete with the rise of HBO, but then it became a basic cable show with reruns and then a basic cable show with new episodes streamed there first for it convinced people to sign up for Sci Fi / Sci Fi Channel / Syfy (different name depending on what years we are talking about) but not to the same extent as what Showtime wanted for the same idea several years earlier.

But the season 9 and 10 were originally going to be a different show. So many cast and crew changes, likewise Atlantis was on its second season.

Season 8 the main talent Richard Dean Anderson became a guest star for he was promoted. This was done for money and for family reasons for RDA wanted to spend more time with his son who was now a teenager. Similar money but less time on set.

Season 7 was written to be the last season with a direct end and a plan to do a spin off (Atlantis) but they decided since 7 was so successful might as well do Season 8.

Season 6 Michael Shanks left the cast but he still guest starred for he wanted more money and was trying to get into the movie industry. Thus he is replaced with a new character but still guest stars. Remember SG1 was done for dirt cheap in Toronto besides the pilot episode and Michael kind of had a point for the show was now in Syndication and he started as a nobody so raise my salary (for Canada shows are real cheap salary wise if you are new to the business.) Other stories say it was about Creative Differences with the Writers.

Season 5 was the last season with Showtime. The show was making money and it was cheap but Showtime did not believe it was bringing in new subscribers so they did not want to contribute to financing it even though other places gladly took Showtime’s place.

Meanwhile during all of this MGM was going bankrupt in the 2000s and 2010s. The studio was profitable with black ink and not red, making about $500 million a year, and $250 million debt payments on $3.7 billion in debt. An amount of debt not used to develop new movies or tv shows, but instead part of this debt was left over Wall Street relics of the 5 different times new owners and restructuring happened between 1985 to 2010 for everyone wanted that back catalog and by turning MGM into a debt instrument you get a guaranteed return but also control over licensing rights to things like Cable TV of old movies. In sum a mess. Well in 2010 there was a managed bankruptcy of MGM where legal rights were rehashed out. The triggering events were the 2007 and 2008 writing strike followed by the 2008 to 2010 recession. Note this is also why Quantum of Solace the bond movie was so bad for besides a rough first draft outline they short this movie without a script due to the writers strike with only actors and directors can due the script writing per guild rules and thus Daniel Craig and director Marc Forster was doing dialogue.

—————

TV shows and Movies can be profitable but full or arcane wizardy with the finances for once the product is finished you resell it millions of times in theaters, tv, syndication / reruns, toys, spin-offs, video games, etc. Likewise there are multiple companies who finance the movies in different parts and they one company may get paid first but in a smaller amount and so on, everyone wants a piece of the pie.

[Rodin]

I remember not liking it because it was so similar in tone to Battlestar, overuse of unnecessary character and relationship drama, and the communication stones that ruined any of that feel of being stuck on a ship alone. It's hard to have that tension when you can magically pop back to earth whenever you want to have a chat or get something to eat. I was also hating it on principle because they cancelled both SG-1 and Atlantis prematurely, only to put this on the air not even a year after the end of Atlantis. It just seemed like an insult to the fans of the franchise to do that.

That said, I'm coincidentally rewatching Universe again as well, and I'll say it's much better when you binge it a couple episodes a day, instead of waiting once a week for it. Still not the show I wanted, nor does it really feel like a Stargate show, but it's not as bad as I once thought.

I'll disagree about SG-1 being canceled prematurely. It was canceled before they ended their plotline, but it should have finished back in season 8. Heck, they should really have finished in season 7 like they planned.

Seasons 9 and 10 (or SGC or whatever we want to call it) were a mistake. The Ori were not interesting villains. The change in cast wasn't great. The whole thing reeked of a cash grab rather than an attempt to do something new...which it was. For all Universe's faults, it was an attempt to branch away from the formula established by SG-1 and Atlantis.

I suspect there were quite a few fans like me who watched seasons 9 and 10 out of habit more than anything else. Hoping it got better. It didn't, and so we wound up with the TV movies. Ironically, the second movie about Baal was a heck of a lot better than anything in the regular show!

[Ramza00]

I'll disagree about SG-1 being canceled prematurely. It was canceled before they ended their plotline, but it should have finished back in season 8. Heck, they should really have finished in season 7 like they planned.

Seasons 9 and 10 (or SGC or whatever we want to call it) were a mistake. The Ori were not interesting villains. The change in cast wasn't great. The whole thing reeked of a cash grab rather than an attempt to do something new...which it was. For all Universe's faults, it was an attempt to branch away from the formula established by SG-1 and Atlantis.

I suspect there were quite a few fans like me who watched seasons 9 and 10 out of habit more than anything else. Hoping it got better. It didn't, and so we wound up with the TV movies. Ironically, the second movie about Baal was a heck of a lot better than anything in the regular show!

I liked 9 and 10 even though your analysis is correct. It was a consistent lower grade than previous Stargate Seasons, simultaneously it was better than other seasons for each season had a few "stinker episodes" that were a drag to watch.

But also I like Vala Mal Doran / Claudia Black even though I did not need her episode with her dad. In sum I glad the seasons were made for that was the joy of SG1, it was so bad some of the time, but you had fun for it was campy yet also it was camp. We need more shows like it on the market even if we also simultaneously need a SG Universe or two as well.

[AdmiralCheez]

Okay, so I totally agree that SG-1 should have ended after Season 7. It would have been the best place to end it. And agreed, the Ori were not that interesting as villains. That said, the Ori arc was finally starting to pick up when the show got cancelled, thus ending "prematurely" in my opinion. I would have preferred they let them finish out the story, or at least give them one more season to close it out and plan a proper ending.