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  1. - Top - End - #1351
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    Default Re: Tarmor's Terribly Tantalizing Tarasque Terrrifying Random Banter #234

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    Out of curiosity, for the participants in this thread who have rejected eternal youth/immortality...

    What would it take to make such a thing "worth it" to you?
    As far as I'm concerned, life's long enough (and longer than I'd like) as it is. Like I said, for me, illness and pain and growing old are part of the deal. I literally can't think of anything that would make it work for me. I just don't need it and I just don't want it.
    Face it, Bookmark: not everyone has transhumanist (or transfloralist, as the cas may be) fantasies.

  2. - Top - End - #1352
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    Out of curiosity, for the participants in this thread who have rejected eternal youth/immortality...

    What would it take to make such a thing "worth it" to you?
    The ability to opt out when I decide to.
    "Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    the Vector Legion [is the IFCC's new pawns], mark my words. Way too much unfinished business there and they already know about the Gates.
    I'll take that bet.

  3. - Top - End - #1353
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    Default Re: Tarmor's Terribly Tantalizing Tarasque Terrrifying Random Banter #234

    Quote Originally Posted by Metastachydium View Post
    Face it, Bookmark: not everyone has transhumanist (or transfloralist, as the cas may be) fantasies.
    Yeah, pretty much this.

    Now I think I'm a bit closer to Rater than Missy people in this, but I think I'd still want the option to decay and die when I'm ready. Which might be in my 80s, might be in my 800s. I just don't know.

    My issue is not with increased lifespan or healthspan, but with eternity. Sadly the universe we live in is anti-War hammer, eventually Charis will lose and unending perfect order will begin (due to everything being in it's lowest energy state). I'll take a punt at an afterlife over eternal boredom.
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  4. - Top - End - #1354
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    Today in sentences I never expected to read/hear in my life:
    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard View Post
    Sadly the universe we live in is anti-War hammer
    Last edited by Fyraltari; 2021-09-16 at 08:21 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    the Vector Legion [is the IFCC's new pawns], mark my words. Way too much unfinished business there and they already know about the Gates.
    I'll take that bet.

  5. - Top - End - #1355
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    Default Re: Tarmor's Terribly Tantalizing Tarasque Terrrifying Random Banter #234

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    The ability to opt out when I decide to.
    This is an argument I never get.

    For one, if you're talking immortality then being able to die means you're not talking immortality.

    For two, people can do that now but it's heavily frowned on in most circumstances. If killing yourself becuase you're bored of living is unacceptable at 28, why would it be okay at 2800?
    Last edited by Rater202; 2021-09-16 at 08:32 AM.
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  6. - Top - End - #1356
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    Default Re: Tarmor's Terribly Tantalizing Tarasque Terrrifying Random Banter #234

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    This is an argument I never get.

    For one, if you're talking immortality then being able to die means you're not talking immortality.

    For two, people can do that now but it's heavily frowned on in most circumstances.
    For one, that's why people don't take a lot of your deals.

    For two, the Right to Die movement has growing acceptance and is significantly different from how suicide is generally perceived.
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    Seconded.

  7. - Top - End - #1357
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    For one, that's why people don't take a lot of your deals.

    For two, the Right to Die movement has growing acceptance and is significantly different from how suicide is generally perceived.
    That's great, except the right to die movement is about voluntary euthanasia of people who are terminally ill or suffering severe conditions that destroy their quality of life with no hope for recovery.

    People wanting to opt-out of immortality are usually talking about sadness at outliving their friends or boredom from seeing everything. Suicidal ideation motivated by depression or boredom is usually considered a sign of mental illness.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
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  8. - Top - End - #1358
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    Default Re: Tarmor's Terribly Tantalizing Tarasque Terrrifying Random Banter #234

    Under normal circumstances yes, but virtual immortality is something that does not exist today, so we don’t really have a baseline for what that would do to a person and how an otherwise mentally healthy individual would react to it. People asking for a way out so to speak is basically hedging against the negative consequences of living forever.

    Especially given that with the eventual heat death of the universe and all, one could reasonably think that dying is a better option then, I don’t know, floating for all eternity in an empty void.
    Last edited by Beeftank; 2021-09-16 at 08:41 AM.

  9. - Top - End - #1359
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    Default Re: Tarmor's Terribly Tantalizing Tarasque Terrrifying Random Banter #234

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    This is an argument I never get.

    For one, if you're talking immortality then being able to die means you're not talking immortality.
    Do you have a better word for "undefinite youth"?

    For two, people can do that now but it's heavily frowned on in most circumstances. If killing yourself becuase you're bored of living is unacceptable at 28, why would it be okay at 2800?
    I think that should I find myself stuck in a black hole which if my understanding of current cosmological models is correct is inevitable, I'd rather die than go "living" being elongated to an impossibly fine line and compressed into a single point.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    the Vector Legion [is the IFCC's new pawns], mark my words. Way too much unfinished business there and they already know about the Gates.
    I'll take that bet.

  10. - Top - End - #1360
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    Default Re: Tarmor's Terribly Tantalizing Tarasque Terrrifying Random Banter #234

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Do you have a better word for "undefinite youth"?
    Eternal Youth.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    I think that should I find myself stuck in a black hole which if my understanding of current cosmological models is correct is inevitable, I'd rather die than go "living" being elongated to an impossibly fine line and compressed into a single point.
    If you're genuinely immortal, the Black Hole can't hurt you.

    If you're not, then you wouldn't survive being caught in such a way. Or, you know, even live that long in the first place.
    Last edited by Rater202; 2021-09-16 at 08:46 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
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    Where my other
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  11. - Top - End - #1361
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    Default Re: Tarmor's Terribly Tantalizing Tarasque Terrrifying Random Banter #234

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    Eternal Youth.
    Well no. "Eternal" never ends.



    If you're genuinely immortal, the Black Hole can't hurt you.
    Then I'm spending all eternity drifiting into space aimlessely into space. Paradise.

    If you're not, then you wouldn't survive being caught in such a way. Or, you know, even live that long in the first place.
    Which would be preferable.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    the Vector Legion [is the IFCC's new pawns], mark my words. Way too much unfinished business there and they already know about the Gates.
    I'll take that bet.

  12. - Top - End - #1362
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Well no. "Eternal" never ends.
    If you're gonna play semantics, your youth never ends if you die before you get old.


    Then I'm spending all eternity drifiting into space aimlessely into space. Paradise.
    Infintie time means eventually, everything will happen(presumably, if you're truly immortal, excluding your death.)

    Which means eventually a new universe will form around you.[/QUOTE]
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    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
    Meteor
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    Way down the air
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    Where my other
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  13. - Top - End - #1363
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    Default Re: Tarmor's Terribly Tantalizing Tarasque Terrrifying Random Banter #234

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    Out of curiosity, for the participants in this thread who have rejected eternal youth/immortality...

    What would it take to make such a thing "worth it" to you?
    .... nobody in this or any thread has rejected eternal youth/immortality because none of us have been offered it
    It's hard to forgive those who have wronged you but every moment you don't is another they have hurt you.

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  14. - Top - End - #1364
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    Default Re: Tarmor's Terribly Tantalizing Tarasque Terrrifying Random Banter #234

    Hopefully the endless isolation and sensory deprivation during those several billion years (if you’re lucky) don’t drive you into insanity.

  15. - Top - End - #1365
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    Quote Originally Posted by HalfTangible View Post
    .... nobody in this or any thread has rejected eternal youth/immortality because none of us have been offered it
    I've proposed multiple hypothecal scenarios involving immortality or eternal youth, which several people have rejected specifically due to becoming immortal or being eternally youthful.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
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    Are.

  16. - Top - End - #1366
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    Default Re: Tarmor's Terribly Tantalizing Tarasque Terrrifying Random Banter #234

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    Infintie time means eventually, everything will happen
    How do you figure that? "Infinite" does not mean "all". For example, there are an infinite set of numbers between 1 and 2, but none of them are 3.
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    Seconded.

  17. - Top - End - #1367
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    Default Re: Tarmor's Terribly Tantalizing Tarasque Terrrifying Random Banter #234

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    I've proposed multiple hypothecal scenarios involving immortality or eternal youth, which several people have rejected specifically due to becoming immortal or being eternally youthful.
    "Hypothetical" being the key phrase
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  18. - Top - End - #1368
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    If you're gonna play semantics, your youth never ends if you die before you get old.
    I don't see your point. Also you're the one who started with semantics when you said that "immortality" means you can't make it stop. Which is why I asked you what term you would find better fitting to what I was proposing.


    Infintie time means eventually, everything will happen(presumably, if you're truly immortal, excluding your death.)

    Which means eventually a new universe will form around you.
    You are assyming that time is infinite, which we don't know.
    Also if absolutely everything will happen (to me), that means I would go (among other things) through the most horrible experiences conceivable and inconceivable. Pass.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    the Vector Legion [is the IFCC's new pawns], mark my words. Way too much unfinished business there and they already know about the Gates.
    I'll take that bet.

  19. - Top - End - #1369
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    Default Re: Tarmor's Terribly Tantalizing Tarasque Terrrifying Random Banter #234

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    That's great, except the right to die movement is about voluntary euthanasia of people who are terminally ill or suffering severe conditions that destroy their quality of life with no hope for recovery.

    People wanting to opt-out of immortality are usually talking about sadness at outliving their friends or boredom from seeing everything. Suicidal ideation motivated by depression or boredom is usually considered a sign of mental illness.
    And you have not considered at all that an unending lifespan might radically change psychology and how that concept might change?
    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    I've proposed multiple hypothecal scenarios involving immortality or eternal youth, which several people have rejected specifically due to becoming immortal or being eternally youthful.
    Many of which have catches, and even without, as several people have mentioned, not everyone fantasizes about transhumanism. And this is far beyond fantasizing, you have something of an obsession with it. Of course you're going to fundamentally disagree with any point of view counter to yours if you have invested so much of yourself into such a fantasy.
    Last edited by Peelee; 2021-09-16 at 09:10 AM.
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    Seconded.

  20. - Top - End - #1370
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    How do you figure that? "Infinite" does not mean "all". For example, there are an infinite set of numbers between 1 and 2, but none of them are 3.
    No, but there are a finite number of things that are physically possible and a finite number of ways that matter and energy can be arranged.

    Given infinite time, particularly with the presence of an infinite source feeding energy into an otherwise closed-system(IE, one or more true immortals) then eventually everything that can happen eventually will.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    I don't see your point. Also you're the one who started with semantics when you said that "immortality" means you can't make it stop. Which is why I asked you what term you would find better fitting to what I was proposing.
    That's not arguing semantics, that's citing a fact.

    Immortality, in the absence of a qualifier like "clinical" or 'virtual", means the inability to die.

    In order to choose to die, you need to be physically capable of dying.

    Thus, being able to choose to terminate your own life precludes being immortal.
    Last edited by Rater202; 2021-09-16 at 09:15 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
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  21. - Top - End - #1371
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    Default Re: Tarmor's Terribly Tantalizing Tarasque Terrrifying Random Banter #234

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    No, but there are a finite number of things that are physically possible and a finite number of ways that matter and energy can be arranged.

    Given infinite time, particularly with the presence of an infinite source feeding energy into an otherwise closed-system(IE, one or more true immortals) then eventually everything that can happen eventually will.
    Again, that does not follow. You can say it as much as you want but the math doesn't support you. That is not how infinities work.
    Last edited by Peelee; 2021-09-16 at 09:12 AM.
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  22. - Top - End - #1372
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    No, but there are a finite number of things that are physically possible and a finite number of ways that matter and energy can be arranged.

    Given infinite time, particularly with the presence of an infinite source feeding energy into an otherwise closed-system(IE, one or more true immortals) then eventually everything that can happen eventually will.
    1) You are again assuming infinite time. We do not know that to be a thing.
    2) Everything that can happen inside that system may happen. The creation of another universe would be the apparition of another system, which absent a way to travel from one to the other, does not help at all.


    That's not arguing semantics, that's citing a fact.

    Immortality, in the absence of a qualifier like "clinical" or 'virtual", means the inability to die.

    In order to choose to die, you need to be physically capable of dying.

    Thus, being able to choose to terminate your own life precludes being immortal.
    Semantic: of or relating to meaning in language.
    Your statements about the meaning of the word immortality is semantic. That is a (semantic) fact.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    the Vector Legion [is the IFCC's new pawns], mark my words. Way too much unfinished business there and they already know about the Gates.
    I'll take that bet.

  23. - Top - End - #1373
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    Default Re: Tarmor's Terribly Tantalizing Tarasque Terrrifying Random Banter #234

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    That's not arguing semantics, that's citing a fact.

    Immortality, in the absence of a qualifier like "clinical" or 'virtual", means the inability to die.

    In order to choose to die, you need to be physically capable of dying.

    Thus, being able to choose to terminate your own life precludes being immortal.
    You claim to be stating a fact but then you argue based on semantics and still are not answering his question.
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  24. - Top - End - #1374
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard View Post
    Missy people
    (Who are these Missy people? They sound nice.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    Immortality (…) means the inability to die.

    In order to choose to die, you need to be physically capable of dying.

    Thus, being able to choose to terminate your own life precludes being immortal.
    Okay, and that would be the single creepiest thing I've heard today, so congratulations are in order.
    Last edited by Metastachydium; 2021-09-16 at 09:27 AM.

  25. - Top - End - #1375
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    Default Re: Tarmor's Terribly Tantalizing Tarasque Terrrifying Random Banter #234

    When you offer Vita Sine Fine and others opt out because they aren't interested in the 'without end' but, then I'm not sure why you think you could convince them into accepting it without removing the without end bit.

    I don't think that matter can spontaneously create a new universe. Therefore I'll end up drifting through the universe in it's lowest energy state in my lowest energy state. If we're assuming thinking takes no energy then I'll have an the rights I can have and then have nothing to do for the next few eternities, all wine just wishing I could converse with somebody. Sounds like heaven.

    Being more realistic and assuming thinking does take energy, then I don't have the energy to think. Therefore from my point of view I might as well not exist. At this point it's probably a better deal to shuffle off the existence part while I have the energy to do so, risk it for a chance that there's a part of me that isn't rooted in the material universe will then have a better existence than physical me would.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

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    Default Re: Tarmor's Terribly Tantalizing Tarasque Terrrifying Random Banter #234

    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard View Post
    in my lowest energy state
    Ah yes, Monday morning.
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    the Vector Legion [is the IFCC's new pawns], mark my words. Way too much unfinished business there and they already know about the Gates.
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    Default Re: Tarmor's Terribly Tantalizing Tarasque Terrrifying Random Banter #234

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Ah yes, Monday morning.
    I mean who'd want an eternity of Mondays?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

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    Default Re: Tarmor's Terribly Tantalizing Tarasque Terrrifying Random Banter #234

    An eternity in a low-energy state isn't even the most horrifying scenario I can come up with.

    First off, eventually you're going to be sent drifting into space. Which means you're going to live through explosive decompression and spend who knows how long drifting in a cold, endless void.

    Then (eventually) you're going to get trapped in the center of a star. And those things last for *billions* of years. Burning your eternal body that entire time.

    Sure, given an infinitely resetting (or truly infinite) universe and truly undying immortality you will eventually end up on a planet again, but 'immortal' does not mean 'immune to injury/pain'.
    Last edited by HalfTangible; 2021-09-16 at 09:41 AM.
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    Default Re: Tarmor's Terribly Tantalizing Tarasque Terrrifying Random Banter #234

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    this is far beyond fantasizing, you have something of an obsession with it.
    Everyone is obsessed with "immortality." All life on earth is motivated by the duel drives of survival and reproduction, which in humans have evolved into the more complex desire to survive long enough to leave a lasting legacy.

    For some this means a long life. For others it means insuring the propagation of their bloodline, for others it's raising a good family whether related by blood or not, or leaving a lasting impression in other, or creating some great work.

    At the end of the day, every sane, rational human being wants to either have a long life, or be remembered when their gone, with many wanting both, and that comes down to the same biological imperative to survive and propagate that's been handed down since the first complex amino acids spawned by random chance in the primordial ooze.

    The only difference between say, a great artist and myself is that I want something more literal.

    And I don't think anyone has the right to blame me: I watched cancer take my father. Cancer took a bunch of my other relatives too. I've had friends taken away in tragic, senseless accidents and had their names slandered after the fact. My great-grandmother was very spry, active, and sharp in late seventies and early eighties, then one day it was like a switch flipped. She didn't have any energy anymore, her mind went and it went fast. Then the strokes started. Have you ever actually seen someone dying of "old age?" People act like it's a good way to go, but it's not.

    And I've told you all about the time my paternal grandmother beat cancer only to immediately die of an opportunistic infection. Did I mention how my maternal grandfather broke his back, the hospital said he'd make a full recovery, and then he randomly Coded and died minutes after they got him comfortable in his bed.

    The autopsy found no cause of death.

    My grandmother is falling apart before my eyes and I can't convince her to make even a modicum of effort to take better care of herself before it's too late.

    I've seen people go horribly and I've seen people go senselessly. I've seen strong evidence that legacy immortality is unreliable and the man who isn't afraid of growing ill or being riddled by disease or toxins is a fool.

    So, I quite logically concluded that this whole death thing was complete bull**** and decided that if I could find a way to become genuine, perfect immortality, I'd take it.

    And share it with as many people as possible. I'd be morally obligated to it for much the same reason that someone who discovered a cure for HIV would be obligated to share it.
    Last edited by Rater202; 2021-09-16 at 09:56 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
    Meteor
    You are a meteor
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    You soar your
    Way down the air
    To the floor
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    Default Re: Tarmor's Terribly Tantalizing Tarasque Terrrifying Random Banter #234

    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard View Post
    I mean who'd want an eternity of Mondays?
    Monday is my D&D day. That could go for quite a while if i have the ability to opt out of playing on a given monday.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

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