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  1. - Top - End - #1381
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    Default Re: Tarmor's Terribly Tantalizing Tarasque Terrrifying Random Banter #234

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    I consider myself a rampant egotist, and yet this is in the running for the most egotistical thing I think I've ever heard.
    We have an expression over here "Après moi, le déluge", "After me, the flood."
    It means that somebody is so unconcerned about the long-term consequences of their actions, as long as they happen after their death, that wouldn't care even if it caused the world to end.

    Don't you have something similar?
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  2. - Top - End - #1382
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    Default Re: Tarmor's Terribly Tantalizing Tarasque Terrrifying Random Banter #234

    ...Can I ask what's so egotistical about saying "I'd rather literally live forever than metaphorically live forever through my art?"

    Becuase that's what I meant.
    I also answer to Bookmark and Shadow Claw.

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    Spoiler: Ode To Meteors, By zimmerwald
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    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
    Meteor
    You are a meteor
    Falling star
    You soar your
    Way down the air
    To the floor
    Where my other
    Rocks
    Are.

  3. - Top - End - #1383
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    Default Re: Tarmor's Terribly Tantalizing Tarasque Terrrifying Random Banter #234

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    Counting or not counting the times I was too young to realize what was going on?

    Counting the things I was aware of in the moment, there was an incident in middle school where someone tried to push me down the stairs, the time some jackass in a diesel truck almost swerved right into the passenger side seat of my mom's itty bitty car(IE, where I was sitting) on the highway, the time I was hospitalized with a two-foot blood clot and suspected pulmonary embolisms.

    If going back to things I only realized in hindsight but that haunt me now that I'm older, there was the time I tripped at the top of the stairs and went tumbling down the banister where, had I not landed on my mother who was sitting at the bottom, my skull would have been smashed on the wall, and the time I spent a week in the hospital with an oversized kidney stone when I was four.
    In October 2017 I woke up on the floor with the taste of blood in my mouth and ambulance lights in my window. I was numb all over, got lifted onto a gurney and taken to a hospital. On the way to the hospital, I was told I had a seizure. I spent that entire night throwing my guts up and part of me was convinced I wouldn't make it to the morning. Found out later that week it was due to a brain tumor and I'd need to go under for surgery.

    I asked if you'd gone through a near-death experience because events like that tend to put into perspective just how easily and quickly we can die, even from things we don't realize are problems. I didn't want to live forever, or even really care if I made it through the week ("If it's my time, it's my time"). It just put into mind that I needed to work faster on, say, my novel. Or finishing reading my Bible. Or any number of other things that I'd put on the backburner, to get to "eventually".

    Immortality doesn't allow that. There's no reason to rush or work quickly, and so you don't. What will you accomplish when your time is unlimited? Paradoxically, having more time just means you'll waste more time.
    Hate me if you want. But that's your issue to fix, not mine.

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  4. - Top - End - #1384
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    Default Re: Tarmor's Terribly Tantalizing Tarasque Terrrifying Random Banter #234

    Quote Originally Posted by HalfTangible View Post
    In October 2017 I woke up on the floor with the taste of blood in my mouth and ambulance lights in my window. I was numb all over, got lifted onto a gurney and taken to a hospital. On the way to the hospital, I was told I had a seizure. I spent that entire night throwing my guts up and part of me was convinced I wouldn't make it to the morning. Found out later that week it was due to a brain tumor and I'd need to go under for surgery.

    I asked if you'd gone through a near-death experience because events like that tend to put into perspective just how easily and quickly we can die, even from things we don't realize are problems. I didn't want to live forever, or even really care if I made it through the week ("If it's my time, it's my time"). It just put into mind that I needed to work faster on, say, my novel. Or finishing reading my Bible. Or any number of other things that I'd put on the backburner, to get to "eventually".

    Immortality doesn't allow that. There's no reason to rush or work quickly, and so you don't. What will you accomplish when your time is unlimited? Paradoxically, having more time just means you'll waste more time.
    There are people who would argue that I'm wasting my time now. And yet, paradoxically, I'm 'wasting my time' becuase of concerns that I have no control over, mostly related to personal safety concerns and physical ability.

    Immortality in my case would take away reasons wy I don't just go out and do things.
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    Spoiler: Ode To Meteors, By zimmerwald
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    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
    Meteor
    You are a meteor
    Falling star
    You soar your
    Way down the air
    To the floor
    Where my other
    Rocks
    Are.

  5. - Top - End - #1385
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    Default Re: Tarmor's Terribly Tantalizing Tarasque Terrrifying Random Banter #234

    Just out of curiosity, what are some of the things you want to do that realistically you could do but so far haven’t?

  6. - Top - End - #1386
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    Default Re: Tarmor's Terribly Tantalizing Tarasque Terrrifying Random Banter #234

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    We have an expression over here "Après moi, le déluge", "After me, the flood."
    It means that somebody is so unconcerned about the long-term consequences of their actions, as long as they happen after their death, that wouldn't care even if it caused the world to end.

    Don't you have something similar?
    Yes, we just call that "American".
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  7. - Top - End - #1387
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    Default Re: Tarmor's Terribly Tantalizing Tarasque Terrrifying Random Banter #234

    Quote Originally Posted by Beeftank View Post
    Just out of curiosity, what are some of the things you want to do that realistically you could do but so far haven’t?
    Nothing. Realistically I can do nothing. For more reasons than I care to elaborate on, there is nothing that I could be doing that I am not already doing.

    I'd like to start jogging again, but between the fact that my knees are one good run away from not being able to support my weight and there are no sidewalks where I live.

    We tried on and off to get a treadmill but by the time we got one that I could use... Well, the first time I had a lasp on my use of it it got folded up and put somewhere where I couldn't use it, then thrown out for "taking too much space with no one using it" despite my constantly asking about getting it put back up so I could use it.

    A couple of years ago I got one of those "body cycles" that you put on the floor and pedal but by then my legs were too bad for it... Despite them being advertised as low impact exercise. I try to use it when I can but twenty minutes is three days of pain.

    Immortal body fixes most of those problems. Can't destroy immortal knees. And lots of places that are considered unsafe to go jogging are safer when you literally can't die.
    Last edited by Rater202; 2021-09-16 at 11:54 AM.
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    Spoiler: Ode To Meteors, By zimmerwald
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    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
    Meteor
    You are a meteor
    Falling star
    You soar your
    Way down the air
    To the floor
    Where my other
    Rocks
    Are.

  8. - Top - End - #1388
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    Default Re: Tarmor's Terribly Tantalizing Tarasque Terrrifying Random Banter #234

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    ...Can I ask what's so egotistical about saying "I'd rather literally live forever than metaphorically live forever through my art?"

    Becuase that's what I meant.
    To rephrase: "I am exactly like a great artist except for lack of interest in art"

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    There are people who would argue that I'm wasting my time now. And yet, paradoxically, I'm 'wasting my time' becuase of concerns that I have no control over, mostly related to personal safety concerns and physical ability.

    Immortality in my case would take away reasons wy I don't just go out and do things.
    Immortality does not mean you lose the ability to feel pain, nor that you will suddenly become Superman.
    Last edited by HalfTangible; 2021-09-16 at 11:55 AM.
    Hate me if you want. But that's your issue to fix, not mine.

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  9. - Top - End - #1389
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    Default Re: Tarmor's Terribly Tantalizing Tarasque Terrrifying Random Banter #234

    Quote Originally Posted by HalfTangible View Post
    To rephrase: "I am exactly like a great artist except for lack of interest in art"
    It only means that if you remove all of the context regarding a desire to live long vs a desire being remembered.



    Quote Originally Posted by HalfTangible View Post
    Immortality does not mean you lose the ability to feel pain, nor that you will suddenly become Superman.
    An inability to die by necessity requires an immunity to injury, sickness, poisoning, degradation, and deprevation.

    You know, the things that are collectively responsible for 100% of deaths.
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    Spoiler: Ode To Meteors, By zimmerwald
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    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
    Meteor
    You are a meteor
    Falling star
    You soar your
    Way down the air
    To the floor
    Where my other
    Rocks
    Are.

  10. - Top - End - #1390
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    Default Re: Tarmor's Terribly Tantalizing Tarasque Terrrifying Random Banter #234

    Oh, I didn’t know it was that bad. You’ve mentioned medical problems before but I didn’t realize how much pain it put you in.

    I’m sure I’m not the first person to suggest this, but does walking an extended time hurt your knees too? I know it’s not much but maybe doing that for a bit, a mile here and there, might strengthen your joints enough so the other exercises become more reasonable?

  11. - Top - End - #1391
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    Default Re: Tarmor's Terribly Tantalizing Tarasque Terrrifying Random Banter #234

    Quote Originally Posted by Beeftank View Post
    Oh, I didn’t know it was that bad. You’ve mentioned medical problems before but I didn’t realize how much pain it put you in.

    I’m sure I’m not the first person to suggest this, but does walking an extended time hurt your knees too? I know it’s not much but maybe doing that for a bit, a mile here and there, might strengthen your joints enough so the other exercises become more reasonable?
    Not as bad... But I can only walk inside. Most of the year it's either too cold, too hot, or too bright for my overly sensitive eyes.

    Also, recently my stepfather has given up on keeping the chickens in their pen and nothing I do can make them leave me the **** alone. And the bastard dismisses my concerns about not being able to use the backyard because of the chickens as being afraid of them. So yeah, the backyard's off-limits for the time being.
    I also answer to Bookmark and Shadow Claw.

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    Spoiler: Ode To Meteors, By zimmerwald
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    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
    Meteor
    You are a meteor
    Falling star
    You soar your
    Way down the air
    To the floor
    Where my other
    Rocks
    Are.

  12. - Top - End - #1392
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    Default Re: Tarmor's Terribly Tantalizing Tarasque Terrrifying Random Banter #234

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    An inability to die by necessity requires an immunity to injury, sickness, poisoning, degradation, and deprevation.

    You know, the things that are collectively responsible for 100% of deaths.
    Not really. Plenty of things hurt me that dont kill me, I can be hungry without starving to death, etc...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    Also, recently my stepfather has given up on keeping the chickens in their pen and nothing I do can make them leave me the **** alone. And the bastard dismisses my concerns about not being able to use the backyard because of the chickens as being afraid of them. So yeah, the backyard's off-limits for the time being.
    Look into your local ordinance on this one. Free-roaming chickens may very well be illegal in your area. They are in mine.
    Last edited by Keltest; 2021-09-16 at 12:20 PM.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  13. - Top - End - #1393
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    Default Re: Tarmor's Terribly Tantalizing Tarasque Terrrifying Random Banter #234

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    An inability to die by necessity requires an immunity to injury, sickness, poisoning, degradation, and deprevation.
    No it doesn't. It requires one to be unable to die and that's it. As long as the injury can't kill you, the sickness just makes your life miserable but it can't kill you and poisons only make you, say, vomit your intestines out and then you get somewhat better and don't die, you are immortal by your previously stated definition (essentially: "you cannot die").

  14. - Top - End - #1394
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    Default Re: Tarmor's Terribly Tantalizing Tarasque Terrrifying Random Banter #234

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    Not really. Plenty of things hurt me that dont kill me, I can be hungry without starving to death, etc...
    There's no meaningful difference between a gaping chest wound and a paper cut, except for size and location.

    If something prevents you from suffering fatal injuries but still lets you be harmed, that's not immortality, that's a curse.
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    Spoiler: Ode To Meteors, By zimmerwald
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    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
    Meteor
    You are a meteor
    Falling star
    You soar your
    Way down the air
    To the floor
    Where my other
    Rocks
    Are.

  15. - Top - End - #1395
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    Default Re: Tarmor's Terribly Tantalizing Tarasque Terrrifying Random Banter #234

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    There's no meaningful difference between a gaping chest wound and a paper cut, except for size and location.

    If something prevents you from suffering fatal injuries but still lets you be harmed, that's not immortality, that's a curse.
    Immortality means not being mortal. Even by the most narrow definitions, as long as you cannot die, you are immortal. It doesn't have to be pleasant.

  16. - Top - End - #1396
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    There's no meaningful difference between a gaping chest wound and a paper cut, except for size and location.

    If something prevents you from suffering fatal injuries but still lets you be harmed, that's not immortality, that's a curse.
    I mean sure, if you ignore all the differences then they look really similar. People dont work like in an RPG, you dont suffer critical existence failure from losing too many hit points. If you die from bleeding out, its because your blood isnt doing the stuff you need it do be doing anymore, not because your body hit the "time to die from blood loss" lever. If youre magically, physics-defyingly immortal, then you dont need blood, but that doesnt mean your body, which you have no control over at that level, doesnt want to keep it there anyway.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  17. - Top - End - #1397
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    Default Re: Tarmor's Terribly Tantalizing Tarasque Terrrifying Random Banter #234

    Quote Originally Posted by HalfTangible View Post
    In October 2017 I woke up on the floor with the taste of blood in my mouth and ambulance lights in my window. I was numb all over, got lifted onto a gurney and taken to a hospital. On the way to the hospital, I was told I had a seizure. I spent that entire night throwing my guts up and part of me was convinced I wouldn't make it to the morning. Found out later that week it was due to a brain tumor and I'd need to go under for surgery.

    I asked if you'd gone through a near-death experience because events like that tend to put into perspective just how easily and quickly we can die, even from things we don't realize are problems. I didn't want to live forever, or even really care if I made it through the week ("If it's my time, it's my time"). It just put into mind that I needed to work faster on, say, my novel. Or finishing reading my Bible. Or any number of other things that I'd put on the backburner, to get to "eventually".

    Immortality doesn't allow that. There's no reason to rush or work quickly, and so you don't. What will you accomplish when your time is unlimited? Paradoxically, having more time just means you'll waste more time.
    Damn, that's rough. I'm glad that you made it through that alright. Did you manage to finish your novel?

  18. - Top - End - #1398
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    Default Re: Tarmor's Terribly Tantalizing Tarasque Terrrifying Random Banter #234

    Quote Originally Posted by Metastachydium View Post
    Immortality means not being mortal. Even by the most narrow definitions, as long as you cannot die, you are immortal. It doesn't have to be pleasant.
    Glibness aside, there's no meaningful difference between fatal injuries and non-fatal ones but size and location.

    No meaningful difference between an infection that kills you and an infection that doesn't.

    etc etc.

    Immunity to fatal injures would, by all reason, make you immune to all injuries. Or rather, require it as any injury can be fatal in the right circumstances.

    Likewise the same with infections: An immune system that can destroy HIV, Sars, Ebola, and Bubonic Plague all at once within seconds of them entering your body will absolutely destroy the common cold.

    And if your celsl no longer requires food, water, or oxygen from outside sources to survive, then there's no reason tall for you to ever feel hungry or thirsty. You'd only need to breathe to talk, so there's be no issue with suffocation either. Oxygen deprevation woud't even make you lightheaded.
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    Spoiler: Ode To Meteors, By zimmerwald
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    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
    Meteor
    You are a meteor
    Falling star
    You soar your
    Way down the air
    To the floor
    Where my other
    Rocks
    Are.

  19. - Top - End - #1399
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    Default Re: Tarmor's Terribly Tantalizing Tarasque Terrrifying Random Banter #234

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    Nothing. Realistically I can do nothing. For more reasons than I care to elaborate on, there is nothing that I could be doing that I am not already doing.

    I'd like to start jogging again, but between the fact that my knees are one good run away from not being able to support my weight and there are no sidewalks where I live.

    We tried on and off to get a treadmill but by the time we got one that I could use... Well, the first time I had a lasp on my use of it it got folded up and put somewhere where I couldn't use it, then thrown out for "taking too much space with no one using it" despite my constantly asking about getting it put back up so I could use it.

    A couple of years ago I got one of those "body cycles" that you put on the floor and pedal but by then my legs were too bad for it... Despite them being advertised as low impact exercise. I try to use it when I can but twenty minutes is three days of pain.

    Immortal body fixes most of those problems. Can't destroy immortal knees. And lots of places that are considered unsafe to go jogging are safer when you literally can't die.
    That's a defeatist attitude. You're not on a great situation there, but it's a defeatist attitude.

    Plus pavements should not be optional except in the deep countryside (where other running routes become possible).

    But you can do something. It'll likely be slow and painful, and it's fine to not be willing to go through that. You also might want a quick fix for your issues, I want one for mind even though they're milder than yours. But as those aren't coming you've got two choices: do the thing, or decide that the thing isn't worth it.

    And I need to put my money where my mouth is by 1) getting back into exercising and 2) finding the money to visit my girlfriends (but I wanted to buy a Switch...)

    ETA: didn't I read a story or six one about somebody cursed with immortality? Sure, different kinds of harm we're generally used, but immortality and curses clearly aren't opposed to everybody...
    Last edited by Anonymouswizard; 2021-09-16 at 12:35 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    Glibness aside, there's no meaningful difference between fatal injuries and non-fatal ones but size and location.

    No meaningful difference between an infection that kills you and an infection that doesn't.

    etc etc.

    Immunity to fatal injures would, by all reason, make you immune to all injuries. Or rather, require it as any injury can be fatal in the right circumstances.

    Likewise the same with infections: An immune system that can destroy HIV, Sars, Ebola, and Bubonic Plague all at once within seconds of them entering your body will absolutely destroy the common cold.

    And if your celsl no longer requires food, water, or oxygen from outside sources to survive, then there's no reason tall for you to ever feel hungry or thirsty. You'd only need to breathe to talk, so there's be no issue with suffocation either. Oxygen deprevation woud't even make you lightheaded.
    Theres no such thing as a "fatal injury" Rater, at least not in the sense that youre talking about. You dont die from being hurt, you die from the consequences of that hurt. Immortality is not indestructibility. Your body needs to operate within certain parameters, but there are plenty of ways to be injured that dont affect those parameters and still hurt and suck.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  21. - Top - End - #1401
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    Glibness aside, there's no meaningful difference between fatal injuries and non-fatal ones but size and location.

    No meaningful difference between an infection that kills you and an infection that doesn't.

    etc etc.

    Immunity to fatal injures would, by all reason, make you immune to all injuries. Or rather, require it as any injury can be fatal in the right circumstances.

    Likewise the same with infections: An immune system that can destroy HIV, Sars, Ebola, and Bubonic Plague all at once within seconds of them entering your body will absolutely destroy the common cold.

    And if your celsl no longer requires food, water, or oxygen from outside sources to survive, then there's no reason tall for you to ever feel hungry or thirsty. You'd only need to breathe to talk, so there's be no issue with suffocation either. Oxygen deprevation woud't even make you lightheaded.
    Again, a fatal injury is an injury that kills you. If it doesn't kill you, it's not fatal.
    Likewise, the immune system of an immortal doesn't have to destroy SARS or Ebola or bubonic plague for this person to be immortal. If they suffer copious amounts of pain, exhibit symptoms but don't die at the end that's essentially the same result, just less pleasant.
    Mutatis mutandis, the same applies to everything you said.
    Last edited by Metastachydium; 2021-09-16 at 12:41 PM.

  22. - Top - End - #1402
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    Default Re: Tarmor's Terribly Tantalizing Tarasque Terrrifying Random Banter #234

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    Immortality is not indestructibility.
    ...If you are immune to the sword through your chest that causes you to bleed to death, the bullet that destroys your brain and instantly kills you, and the spear tipped with feces that kills you a week later from infection, you are logically also immune to paper cuts.

    If you can still suffer injury, sickness, or starvation that's not immortality. That's an evil genie putting you on life support, and you will die as soon as the genie is either defeated or decides that your constant agony isn't amusing anymore.

    Because to live forever requires you to be impervious to anything that could conceivably kill you.

    And that logically includes all firms of harm due to the simple fact that a knife doesn't care if it's slicing off your pinky or plunging into your heart.
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    Spoiler: Ode To Meteors, By zimmerwald
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    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
    Meteor
    You are a meteor
    Falling star
    You soar your
    Way down the air
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    Default Re: Tarmor's Terribly Tantalizing Tarasque Terrrifying Random Banter #234

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    ...If you are immune to the sword through your chest that causes you to bleed to death, the bullet that destroys your brain and instantly kills you, and the spear tipped with feces that kills you a week later from infection, you are logically also immune to paper cuts.

    If you can still suffer injury, sickness, or starvation that's not immortality. That's an evil genie putting you on life support, and you will die as soon as the genie is either defeated or decides that your constant agony isn't amusing anymore.

    Because to live forever requires you to be impervious to anything that could conceivably kill you.

    And that logically includes all firms of harm due to the simple fact that a knife doesn't care if it's slicing off your pinky or plunging into your heart.
    Im immortal, not indestructible. The sword through my chest wont kill me, because i cant die, but that doesnt mean there isnt a sword in my chest.
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    Default Re: Tarmor's Terribly Tantalizing Tarasque Terrrifying Random Banter #234

    Yes, immortality literally just means you can't die. Doesn't even mean you don't age (which is a trope in and of itself). Even complete immortality doesn't mean you can't be hurt or even disabled, it just means you can't die.

    Rater, what you want is indestructibility. Plus probably some asterisks about being unaging and disease immunity.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
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    Default Re: Tarmor's Terribly Tantalizing Tarasque Terrrifying Random Banter #234

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    Im immortal, not indestructible. The sword through my chest wont kill me, because i cant die, but that doesnt mean there isnt a sword in my chest.
    ...You're working backward.

    Immortality comes from an inability to be harmed. If you can just be walking around with a gaping chest would bleeding all over the place, either you're an undead creature, or something is artificially preventing you from dying when you should.

    In the first case, you're not alive in the traditional sense. In the second case, whatever it is preventing you from dying can probably be reversed or cut off.

    As I've alluded to, it's not immortality if the only reason you're not dead yet is that the evil genie hasn't finished laughing at your misfortune. That's just malicious life support.

    Genuine immortality would require the self-contained and inviolable ability to 1: perfectly recover from harm because you suffer death or long-term complications or 2: be completly impervious to harm in the first place.
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    Default Re: Tarmor's Terribly Tantalizing Tarasque Terrrifying Random Banter #234

    Rater, do you know Jack Harckness from Doctor Who and Torchwood? Ever since he's been brought back from the dead, he's been described as immortal since every time he suffers a fatal injury, he "dies" for like ten seconds and comes back to life fully healed.

    Do you agree that immortal is an accurrate description for him?
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    Default Re: Tarmor's Terribly Tantalizing Tarasque Terrrifying Random Banter #234

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    ...You're working backward.

    Immortality comes from an inability to be harmed.
    It does not. Harm is not death. Death is death. Immortality is the inability to die. Thats it. It is not the inability to be harmed, afflicted, debilitated, pained, or anything else. Its the inability to die.

    You seem to recognize that just immortality without any sort of requisite secondary powers would suck really hard, so im not sure why youre pushing back on the idea that a lot of people wouldnt want immortality.
    Last edited by Keltest; 2021-09-16 at 01:01 PM.
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    Default Re: Tarmor's Terribly Tantalizing Tarasque Terrrifying Random Banter #234

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    ...You're working backward.

    Immortality comes from an inability to be harmed. If you can just be walking around with a gaping chest would bleeding all over the place, either you're an undead creature, or something is artificially preventing you from dying when you should.
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    Default Re: Tarmor's Terribly Tantalizing Tarasque Terrrifying Random Banter #234

    If something can be harmed but can't die it's immortal.

    If something can die but can't be harmed it's indestructible.

    These are two separate but not mutually exclusive states. Like being on fire and screaming. Being on fire doesn't automatically mean I'm screaming.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
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    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

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    Default Re: Tarmor's Terribly Tantalizing Tarasque Terrrifying Random Banter #234

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Rater, do you know Jack Harckness from Doctor Who and Torchwood? Ever since he's been brought back from the dead, he's been described as immortal since every time he suffers a fatal injury, he "dies" for like ten seconds and comes back to life fully healed.

    Do you agree that immortal is an accurrate description for him?
    It's implied that Jack will eventually become the Face of Boe(spelling?), and then ultimately die of old age. Eventually. Though double-checking it seems he died sacrificing himself instead.

    Thus, if those implications are true, then no, he is not immortal.

    Even if that's not true, it is explicitly noted that h's still getting aging, just at a much slower rate than other people. Thus, his ability to regenerate from injuries and revive himself upon death is imperfect as he's still accumulating wear and tear over time, it's just, less of it is sticking.

    Under a framework of hard scientific assumptions, that means that he's still eventually going to reach a point where his body can no longer function and must shut down and is thus not genuinely immortal...

    Though, admittedly, this is Doctor Who. HArd science went out the windows in the sixties.

    As I understand it, the only being in the franchise that is truly immortal is the Timeless Child, the entity from who, the first Gallifreyan Time Lords derived the ability to regenerate(and presumably most of the other powers that separate Time Lords from other Gallifreyans) and who can regenerate infintly without the need for an external source of regeneration energy and even then, since Time Lord regeneration essentially destroys and rebuilds your body, does so imperfectly resulting in differant physical appearance and even DNA, and comes with radical changes in personality as your new brain begins interpreting your old thoughts, even that is arguably a new individual inheriting a previous set of memories rather than actual immortality... A perspective that's shared by several incarnations of the Doctor.

    Admittedly, that's more philosophical than literal.

    Edit: Double checking, Jack is confirmed to become the Face of Boe by multiple authorial statements, so no, as the Face of Boe did ultimately die, Jack is not immortal.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    It does not. Harm is not death. Death is death. Immortality is the inability to die. Thats it. It is not the inability to be harmed, afflicted, debilitated, pained, or anything else. Its the inability to die.

    You seem to recognize that just immortality without any sort of requisite secondary powers would suck really hard, so im not sure why youre pushing back on the idea that a lot of people wouldnt want immortality.
    Harm is what causes death. You die becuase you bled out, or becuase the wrong cells went too long without food or oxygen, or becuase your brain turned off, or becuase you got too old and something you can't live without broke.

    IT's not "immortality without secondary powers is bad" it's "if it keeps you alive without making you impervious to harm then either it's not immortality or the people writing the story don't know how death works."

    Like, seriously, one of the first things I said in this discussion was that a black hole wouldn't be able to harm you if you were immortal. That should make it clear what we're talking about.
    Last edited by Rater202; 2021-09-16 at 02:23 PM.
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