Rater Reads The Hobbit

[PontificatusRex]

Stuff that is not even slightly about whether it's okay to regard Bombur as having been traumatized or not.

So much for that attempt...

[pendell]

Chapter VIII: Fliies and spiders...

...ya~ay

Spoiler: Thoughts

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The forest is dark as all hell.

...So I had to google if black squirrels were a thing. Despite living in a squirrel-filled area I have never seen one in real life before.

I learned something today.



(the preceding video was linked unironically.)

I'm guessing most arachnophobes skip this chapter. Not even one page in and Tolkien's descriptive prose goes on about the cobwebs.

It's gotta suck to be outside and yet begin to feel sensations of claustrophobia. This forest sounds like hell.

The struggles to get the boat provide much-needed comic relief after the thorough uncleanness given by the description of the eyes and the others and the bats. At least that's my take on it.

Don't you hate it when a deer comes out of nowhere and knocks you into the enchanted black river that puts you in a coma?

As the dwarves waste their arrows on white der while Bombur is dead to the world, I can't help but note that the map in the back shows that there was a proper road clear through the Mirkwood that doesn't cross the enchanted river or the forest river or the Mirkwood mountain or any of the areas labeled with spider symbols and honestly seems closer to Beorn's home than what seems to be the path our party took. The path on the other side would have been longer, but actually getting to and then through the dangerous enchanted forest would have been faster and easier. Does that come up later?

Creepy laughter is creepy.

The forest never ends.

Bombur wakes up and has lost months of memory. That is... That is the single most terrifying thing in the entire book so far.

We are the product of our experiences. To lose such a large chunk of memory in such a way is a grievous wound to one's very identity.

...Bombur's dream is giving me fair folk vibes.

The elves of the Murkwood are either really skittish, or they're trolls.

The trolling by the elves eventually gets our party separated, and Bilbo is caught in a giant Spider-Web.

And Bilbo easily kills the spider with his elven-made blade.

killing the spider does wonders for the smol hairy fat man's confidence. He gives his blade the name "sting," which fits quite well with "Beater" and "Biter," the names the goblins give to the other prominent elf-made weapons in this story. Coincidence?

The Spiders can talk. With the trolls earlier, it made the monsters less threatening and more whimsical that they spoke as common men did and had mundane names, but these spiders are just... It just makes them far more monstrous. I wonder why I have such differing reactions.

We then get a sequence of Bilbo rescuing the dwarves from the spiders, complete with yet more songs, where he shows cunning, skill at throwing, impressive dexterity... Obviously using the Ring to stay hidden from sight is helping him a lot, and the Ring is probably boosting his other traits considerably, but still, this a major moment for Bilbo.

This is the chapter where he graduates from a drag-along who just barely escapes danger with his life to a proper adventurer imbued with heroic qualities.

Huh, the Ring doesn't make Sting invisible? Interesting.

After leading the spiders far away from their territory, Bilbo rushes back, kills the one that stayed back to guard the dwarves, and begins cutting them loose.

The Spiders come back, however, before escape can happen. When poor Bombur, who has just been put through the wringer in this chapter, is recaptured, Bilbo just starts slaughtering Spiders in order to rescue him and successfully does so.

Battle, more spiders are slaughtered, but there's too many of them. Bilbo lets the dwarves know of the Ring and vanishes before repeating his earlier plan to confuse and infuriate the spiders, which allows the Dwarves to counterattack and escape.

Just as they are about to be recaptured, Bibo reappears and starts slaughtering spiders once more. The spiders, now terrified of Sting, hesitate and ultimately give up the chase allowing our party to escape for good, though Bilbo is left exhausted.

They find a relatively safe place to rest, recuperate... And realize that Thorin is missing.

I'll admit, in the excitement, I did not notice despite it being obvious in hindsight.

We are quickly told of Thorin being captured, after falling into an enchanted sleep, by the Wood-elves and ae then told of the Wood Elves and how they differ from other types of elves.

Despite being referred to as Good People, however, it becomes readily apparent that they're kind of *******s. Considering that the differing accounts of the dwarves and elves reading the seizing of treasure is immediately followed by an objective statement that the Elf King is greedy and that Thorin's family had nothing to do with that conflict and yet thorin is ill-treated for it anyway, I'm inclined to side with the Dwarves on this one.

I'm guessing that the Wood Elf King's actions are where the stereotype of elves being haughty, elitist, entitled asshats comes from.

Couple quick points:
-- Tolkien is a war veteran and there are things he would gladly forget if he could. For some people it would not be hell to forget everything that happened between 1914 and 1918, years of muddy trenches and terror and gas, as if it had all been a bad dream. He's writing what he knew. Trench fever and suffering and war he knew; memory loss he didn't. If he had, he might have paid more attention to it and treated it with more respect.

Also, don't forget the other side of the coin: This is elvish magic working on Bombur, and elvish magic in Middle-Earth is good magic. If it gives forgetfulness, it's not going to be anywhere near as traumatic as real-world forgetfulness might be, more like a bout of anesthesia on an operating table. Bombur, under their enchantment, dreams of feasting and dinners and merry companions, which is so pleasant compared to his reality he'd just as soon go on dreaming rather than wake up and deal with the reality of starving to death in the forest.

I suspect that if this sleep had been laid on him by Nazgul or barrow-wights, as happened to some characters in Fellowship, the dreams would have been of terrible and awful things from which he would be glad to awaken.

Spoiler: Fellowship

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Pippin, under the sleep cast by the barrow-wight, dreams of being assaulted at night by soldiers of Angmar, stabbed in the heart with a spear, which is a far different dream than Bombur's of feasting with the elves.

Which reminds me: We talk about the trauma of losing memory, but there's also a lot of trauma in this chapter and it hits me hard; Being lost, not knowing where you are, having eaten your last scrap of food, slowly dying in a wilderness, like Scott on the Antarctic expedition. Mirkwood is a truly terrible experience for everyone , and if Bombur gets to miss out on some of that in an enchanted sleep, I'm not sure he's had the worst of it.

As far as spiders, my understanding is that while Tolkien had no problem with them his son Christopher absolutely hated them, so naturally JRR worked them in as villains in many of his stories. He knew they absolutely creeped his boy out, so when it was time to make something creepy and nasty in the story, well, here are our eight-legged friends.

Goodness knows what would have happened if Christopher hated ponies instead of spiders , we'd have a very different story .

As I read the Silmarillion, "Light" elves journied to Valimar while "Dark" elves stayed in middle earth, either refusing the call of the Valar to Valinor altogether, or getting lost and tarried on their way.

Some of these dark elves were ensnared and converted to orcs by Morgoth, but there were plenty of others who remained in Middle Earth and were mostly good folk. They don't come in much into the Silmarilllion because it's told from the point of view of the Light-elves who return to Middle earth and make kingdoms their. The doings of the dark elves and, indeed, much of the activity of humans outside Beleriand , is beneath their notice. As any colonizing group does, their focus is on themselves and the activities of others only make it into their stories and histories when they impact the Noldur, the light-elves in Middle Earth, in some meaningful way.

One such group is the kingdom of Doriath led by Thingol. Luthien, fairest daughter of middle-earth and Tolkien's insert of his wife Edith, is herself technically a dark elf, but none could say she was fallen into evil nor was there evil taint about her or her people.

So we can't conclude that Morgoth enslaved or conquered all or even many of the dark elves; we know as little about them as we do about the kingdoms of Rhun or Far Harad in the south. Whatever evil or good happen there, they are not part of the story we're being told.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[The_Snark]

One such group is the kingdom of Doriath led by Thingol. Luthien, fairest daughter of middle-earth and Tolkien's insert of his wife Edith, is herself technically a dark elf, but none could say she was fallen into evil nor was there evil taint about her or her people.

It's a little more complicated than that:


As you can see, there are a number of different ways to categorize Tolkien's elves, almost none of which map neatly onto one another. There's the original division of the elves into three clans (Minyar, Tatyar and Nelyar), and the more commonly-used tribes of Vanyar, Noldor and Teleri, which are mostly the same thing but not entirely (the Tatyar who never went to Valinor probably wouldn't call themselves Noldor). There's one division based on whether they ever saw the light of the Trees of Valinor (Calaquendi vs Moriquendi), and a related but separate division based on whether they accepted the invitation to Valinor and got there, accepted the invitation but never made it there, or refused the invitation outright (Amanyar, Umanyar, and Avamanyar respectively), and a very similar but apparently distinct one which only distinguishes between acceptance vs refusal (Eldar and Avari). There are also ethnic sub-divisions within some of these - Nandor, Sindar, Laiquendi, Silvan-elf and Wood-elf all refer to different groups of the Teleri/Umanyar.

Any given elf can therefore be counted among at least two different groups, and often more. Luthien is Teleri, Sindar, Moriquendi, and Umanyar (by descent, anyway, she was born after the exodus to Valinor). Now, Moriquendi literally translates to "elves of darkness", so by that reckoning she is a dark elf - but that term usually* refers specifically to the Avari, the group that not only never saw the light of the Trees but actively refused the chance to do so. There's a decent chance that calling Luthien a dark elf would have been considered an insult.

*Actually, it's probably most often used to describe Eol, who is either an Avari of Tatyar/Noldor descent or Umanyar/Sindar, depending on what version of the legendarium you take as correct; regardless of his origins, he's given the nickname because he despised sunlight and lived in a dark enchanted forest - much like Mirkwood - to avoid it. The Avari themselves are barely present in Tolkien's writing.

[Rater202]

Okay, it has been too damn long. I'm honestly a little ashamed of myself, it's never taken me this long to finish a book.

Barrels out of Bond

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Immediatly our heroes are captured by the Wood Elves. But Bilbo uses the Ring to avoid capture and follow along after the elves, so, not a total loss.

...Seriously, is the Wood Elf King the origin of arrogant asshat elves? "There's no need for ropes. They can't escape," is exactly what the bad guy says right before he exchanges his teeth for an intimate understanding of the flavor of knuckles as the prisoners are on the way out the door.

"Hello mister Kettle, I'm mister Pot. You're awfully black why aren't you?" said the Elf King as he lectured the dwarves in manners.

Bilbo is forced to sneak around invisible for a week or two... That can't possibly be good for you.

Luckily, he finds Thorin and the beginnings of a plan come together.

A stream runs through the elf city and can be used to escape... Checking the map in the back of the book, that would be the "Firest River" that runs from the Grey Mountains clear through to Long Lake, just south of Lonely Mountain.

That is to say, they're almost there.

...Yeah, more or less. And... Bilbo refers to himself as barrel rider in a later scene, so... Yes, I see what's going to happen here, he's going to sneak himself and the dwarves out by hiding in the emptied wine barrels as they're floated down the river.

...Please tell me that the heady vintage of the gardens of Dowinion is red wine. The mental image of the heroes escaping because some of their captors got red wine drunk is hilarious.

And yes, I guessed right. The dwarves aren't happy about it.

Gonna be honest, magic good dream wine sounds really good right now and I don't even drink.

More songs!

Oh. Bilbo, being unable to pack himself in, literally rides a barrel down the river.

The chapter ends with some elves unknowingly escorting the Dwarves the Lake Town.

...But seriously. Wood Elf King is a jackass.

[Scarlet Knight]

Fun Fact: In the Hobbit cartoon, the Elf King is voiced by Otto Preminger, who also played the villain Mr. Freeze in the old Batman series! So your bad guy vibe is pretty on target.

[Peelee]

...Seriously, is the Wood Elf King the origin of arrogant asshat elves? "There's no need for ropes. They can't escape," is exactly what the bad guy says right before he exchanges his teeth for an intimate understanding of the flavor of knuckles as the prisoners are on the way out the door.

And yet he was entirely correct.

Bilbo is forced to sneak around invisible for a week or two... That can't possibly be good for you.

Why not?

[Rater202]

Why not?

Ignoring the fact that the Ring is evil?

Lack of social contact. He was essentially isolated for two weeks.

[Lord Torath]

Ignoring the fact that the Ring is evil?

Lack of social contact. He was essentially isolated for two weeks.

2020 would like to have a few words with you...

[Peelee]

Ignoring the fact that the Ring is evil?

Not as it was written. Changing what the ring was after the book was written doesn't really come into play, since

Spoiler

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it didn't have any discernable effect on Bilbo anyway.

Lack of social contact. He was essentially isolated for two weeks.

I wonder what you think of people who go camping.

[warty goblin]

I wonder what you think of people who go camping.

I feel like there's a pretty self-evident difference between choosing to go camping for a while, and living as a fugitive in hostile territory, where if you are found at best you are imprisoned indefinitely. To say nothing of the hygiene difficulties created by long periods of invisibility.

[Peelee]

I feel like there's a pretty self-evident difference between choosing to go camping for a while, and living as a fugitive in hostile territory, where if you are found at best you are imprisoned indefinitely. To say nothing of the hygiene difficulties created by long periods of invisibility.

Sure, I was being a bit flippant there, but this is hardly solitary confinement. Nothing in the text suggests that it was an overburdened hardship on Bilbo.

[Qwertystop]

2020 would like to have a few words with you...

Was 2020 *not* stressful?

[factotum]

Thranduil has the creeping evil of the Necromancer gradually overtaking his forest from Dol Guldur in the south, I think a distrust of outsiders is maybe not all that surprising. He's not evil, and it's actually kind of refreshing for elves to be represented as the sort of morally-ambiguous (even alien) creatures of legend rather than the goody-two-shoes of LOTR's imitators. Believe me, if you think Thranduil is a bit of an asshat, you should read up on Fëanor and his sons sometime!

[Fyraltari]

Not as it was written. Changing what the ring was after the book was written doesn't really come into play, since

Spoiler

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it didn't have any discernable effect on Bilbo anyway.

Spoiler

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That's a bit like saying that since that one guy did not eventually get lung cancer, that one time he smoke 100 cigarettes in two days wasn't unhealthy. Edit, to clarify my point, it's explicitly said in the text that the use of the Rings worsen the conditions of their wearer: the more they use it the more the sun became unbearable to Gollum and the more of the Nazgûls' will became subordinate to Sauron's.

[Dexam]

Sure, I was being a bit flippant there, but this is hardly solitary confinement. Nothing in the text suggests that it was an overburdened hardship on Bilbo.

Really? Because Bilbo himself describes this time as lonely, weary, and miserable.

Poor Mr Baggins - it was a weary long time that he lived in that place all alone, and always in hiding, never daring to take off his ring, hardly daring to sleep, even tucked away in the darkest and remotest corners he could find.

'I am like a burglar that can't get away, but must go on miserably burgling the same house day after day,' he thought. 'This is the dreariest and dullest part of all this wretched, tiresome, uncomfortable adventure!'

[Peelee]

Really? Because Bilbo himself describes this time as lonely, weary, and miserable.

I'd forgotten about that. I'll cop to being wrong then.

[Manga Shoggoth]

...Seriously, is the Wood Elf King the origin of arrogant asshat elves? "There's no need for ropes. They can't escape," is exactly what the bad guy says right before he exchanges his teeth for an intimate understanding of the flavor of knuckles as the prisoners are on the way out the door.

Or, perhaps, a ruler who wishes to treat his prisoners reasonably well, even if they are dwarves, trespassing in his lands, and refusing to give an account of themselves and generally being in his way. I doubt whether the Goblins would be as gracious.

[Rater202]

Or, perhaps, a ruler who wishes to treat his prisoners reasonably well, even if they are dwarves, trespassing in his lands, and refusing to give an account of themselves and generally being in his way. I doubt whether the Goblins would be as gracious.

Being a traveler is more than enough explanation given the context.

He assumes malice where no one should, and he acts like a jackass while doing it.

[Khedrac]

Being a traveler is more than enough explanation given the context.

He assumes malice where no one should, and he acts like a jackass while doing it.

I agree that the Elf King does not act well, but this is not simply "a group of travellers" - this is a group of travellers who repeatedly rushed into their feasts in a manner that could easily have been an attack (remember, his lands are under harrassment from the forces of the Necromancer to the South and possibly the occasional orc/goblin probes from the West). A sensible group of travellers would (at least after the first time) called out and asked for permission to approach before doing so.

I don't think it is fair to put the blame fully on either side in this case - both parties contributed to the misunderstanding and lack of communication.

[Rater202]

I agree that the Elf King does not act well, but this is not simply "a group of travellers" - this is a group of travellers who repeatedly rushed into their feasts in a manner that could easily have been an attack (remember, his lands are under harrassment from the forces of the Necromancer to the South and possibly the occasional orc/goblin probes from the West). A sensible group of travellers would (at least after the first time) called out and asked for permission to approach before doing so.

I don't think it is fair to put the blame fully on either side in this case - both parties contributed to the misunderstanding and lack of communication.

Considering that the elves fled literally the second anyone walked into the light, that level of skittishness would interpret anything as an attack. "Hey can we!... And they're gone."

And if they're under siege, why were they having feasts in the middle of the road instead of in their well-defended fortress/city?

And a cursory search would indicate that the dwarves were barely armed.

And Thorin explained the circumstances exactly and the Elf King refused to believe him: The only thing Thorin omitted is why the Dwarves were in the forest to begin with... Which is irrelevant. There's a road through the forest. You don't put a road ina f rest and leave it open and unguarded without expecting people to use it.

And it's more or less implied that the elf King's behavior is motivated by racism. His people had a conflict with dwarves long ago, and even though Thorin's family weren't among those dwarves...

Whatever blame Thorin's party has here is negligable. It is 90% at least the Elf King being a son of a bitch.

[Fyraltari]

Yes, I think it's pretty obvious that at this point in the story the Elf King is supposed to be in the wrong.

[pendell]

First thought is to remember some of the fairy tale background. These are not high-elves but woodland elves, grey or dark. That mean they are notoriously skittish of other peoples. In other fairy tale stories, going into a faery feast uninvited rarely ends well for the trespasser. At least Thorin and company are still in the same shape they started in.

From the elven king's viewpoint, here is the information he has received:
-- There is a band of dwarves in his forest. Three times they have harassed his people while they are about their lawful business.
-- Furthermore, said dwarves have agitated the spiders which are going to make life even more troublesome for his people.
-- When he captured their leader, their leader would tell him absolutely nothing about what they were doing or why they were in his kingdom at all.

His response is to feed them and put them in the cells until one of them , at least, decides to explain what's going on.

While the food they feed is not fine it IS filling, and plentiful. What's more he doesn't do what a lot of human sovereigns would do in this position, which is to trot out the rack and thumbscrews to see if 'enhanced interrogation' could shake an answer out of them faster.

This wasn't ideal. A better solution would have been if the Elven King had border guards to stop the travelers at the entrance to his land and ask their business. But even there, we would probably find ourselves in the same predicament. I doubt Thorin and company would have been any more forthcoming earlier in their journey, with the result they'd have either been refused entry to the elvish country outright, or taken prisoner to the king in the same way.

The Elven king has no reason to allow uninvited strangers to wander in his land, especially when they won't tell him why they're there. Try that at any border checkpoint in the real world, see how far you get.

So, while not a straight-A ranking, I think he acquitted himself better than many human sovereigns might in his place. And certainly better than the goblins of the Misty Mountains, who intended to enslave the travelers.

I don't believe the wood elves are "under siege". If they were, they should have had sentries out. They should have intercepted the travelers long before this all occurred, just as happened in Lothlorien in the next book. Their actions are entirely in accord with people living at peace in their own homes without any fears or cares. If this were not so, it's entirely possible that their capture and interrogation would be even less pleasant than it was, since the Elven King might have reason to fear they are part of an invading army and they need intelligence now, not in however many hundreds of years of captivity it would otherwise take to loosen their tongues.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[PontificatusRex]

First thought is to remember some of the fairy tale background. These are not high-elves but woodland elves, grey or dark. That mean they are notoriously skittish of other peoples. In other fairy tale stories, going into a faery feast uninvited rarely ends well for the trespasser. At least Thorin and company are still in the same shape they started in.

I think this is really what the encounters with the elves are about. Mirkwood is the closest we come to visiting Faeirie in this story. Everyone shudders to think of it and warns them of its dangers, but it turns out it's not because there's monsters lurking around every corner to get you, it's because it's super weird and creepy and enchanted (and also has some monsters). The elves dousing out the lights when the dwarves stumble into their feasts is a classic faerie move, and there's really no strategic justification for it - especially since they just start another feast not too far away a little while later.

As for Thranduil's behavior, it's more mundane than classic faerie tales - he doesn't time shift them forward a hundred years or anything - but it's pretty understandable given the setting. No one trusts anyone else in the Wild (especially not old rival ethnicities). Imagine if the dwarves had burst into a feast hosted by Beorn - I suspect it would not have ended as well as being put in cells.

Also, Kings are pretty much the ultimate power in the lands they rule, and telling them "It's none of your business" when you're passing through just would not fly with any of them, elvish or not. We take it for granted in the modern Western world that we have freedom of movement and don't need to answer to any government authority as to why, but that's really only the case pretty recently. Heck, now that I think about it, even now you have to declare whether you're a tourist or doing business or whatever when you travel. Balin claimed they were on a journey to visit relatives, but he was lying and the Elvenking was smart enough to know it. The dwarves didn't want to mention Smaug because they were afraid that if they did the elves would demand a cut of the profits in return for letting them pass through their lands, and the dwarves probably would have been right. Totally normal practice to demand tolls, fees, or whatever from travellers if a local ruler thought there was money to be made.

[The_Snark]

Balin claimed they were on a journey to visit relatives, but he was lying and the Elvenking was smart enough to know it. The dwarves didn't want to mention Smaug because they were afraid that if they did the elves would demand a cut of the profits in return for letting them pass through their lands, and the dwarves probably would have been right. Totally normal practice to demand tolls, fees, or whatever from travellers if a local ruler thought there was money to be made.

The funny thing about this is that Balin's claim easily could have been true; the Iron Hills, where Thorin's cousin Dain and his people live, is directly east of Mirkwood. If Thorin had been going to visit him, then they probably would have taken the same route (but continued east from Laketown rather than turning north).

[Peelee]

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That's a bit like saying that since that one guy did not eventually get lung cancer, that one time he smoke 100 cigarettes in two days wasn't unhealthy. Edit, to clarify my point, it's explicitly said in the text that the use of the Rings worsen the conditions of their wearer: the more they use it the more the sun became unbearable to Gollum and the more of the Nazgûls' will became subordinate to Sauron's.

When The Hobbit was written, it was just an invisibility ring. Not one of the greatest artifacts in the world, not a monument of unspeakable evil, not a corrupting influence that cannot be withstood. An invisibility ring.

This is the same story where trolls have nice chats amongst themselves, as opposed to trolls in LotR.

I think this is really what the encounters with the elves are about. Mirkwood is the closest we come to visiting Faeirie in this story. Everyone shudders to think of it and warns them of its dangers, but it turns out it's not because there's monsters lurking around every corner to get you, it's because it's super weird and creepy and enchanted (and also has some monsters). The elves dousing out the lights when the dwarves stumble into their feasts is a classic faerie move, and there's really no strategic justification for it - especially since they just start another feast not too far away a little while later.

As for Thranduil's behavior, it's more mundane than classic faerie tales - he doesn't time shift them forward a hundred years or anything - but it's pretty understandable given the setting. No one trusts anyone else in the Wild (especially not old rival ethnicities). Imagine if the dwarves had burst into a feast hosted by Beorn - I suspect it would not have ended as well as being put in cells.

Also, Kings are pretty much the ultimate power in the lands they rule, and telling them "It's none of your business" when you're passing through just would not fly with any of them, elvish or not. We take it for granted in the modern Western world that we have freedom of movement and don't need to answer to any government authority as to why, but that's really only the case pretty recently. Heck, now that I think about it, even now you have to declare whether you're a tourist or doing business or whatever when you travel. Balin claimed they were on a journey to visit relatives, but he was lying and the Elvenking was smart enough to know it. The dwarves didn't want to mention Smaug because they were afraid that if they did the elves would demand a cut of the profits in return for letting them pass through their lands, and the dwarves probably would have been right. Totally normal practice to demand tolls, fees, or whatever from travellers if a local ruler thought there was money to be made.

Aye.

[PontificatusRex]

The funny thing about this is that Balin's claim easily could have been true; the Iron Hills, where Thorin's cousin Dain and his people live, is directly east of Mirkwood. If Thorin had been going to visit him, then they probably would have taken the same route (but continued east from Laketown rather than turning north).

Well sure, it could have been true, Balin was smart enough to know that a lie is much more convincing when you add as many factual elements as possible.

But really, at that time in the Third Age, one did not simply walk hundreds of miles through the Wild to visit one's relatives. And Thranduil is hip enough to know that.

[The_Snark]

Well sure, it could have been true, Balin was smart enough to know that a lie is much more convincing when you add as many factual elements as possible.

But really, at that time in the Third Age, one did not simply walk hundreds of miles through the Wild to visit one's relatives. And Thranduil is hip enough to know that.

Yeah. Not for a casual visit, anyway, if you had some message or request of great importance (e.g. Boromir going to Rivendell to ask about a prophetic dream) it would make some sense.

[Rater202]

Okay, I think we're in the Home Stretch. If you omit the notes and the fact that my copy also has the first chapter of Fellowship, we're over halfway through and checking the index it seems that most of the remaining chapters are much shorter than they've been recently.

The next chapter will be read and commented on within the next 24/hours and I'm going to try and do this more often.

Spoiler: A Warm Welcome

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1: I love Toliens descriptive prose.

2: If the elves had been reasonable, they would have said something along the lines of "yeah, this road is out you might as well turn around" and the dwarves probably would have done something different but...I mean, it would have been closer to the description of 'Good People' than the Elf-King's greed and racism.

And the narrator says that Gandalf is coming to the rescue after learning that his info was out of date. I get the feeling that he will arrive exactly when he means to, which just so happens will be after when his help would have been useful but ost certainly not 'late.' I mean, think about it: He's already saved the party's bacon twice in this story, three times if you count taking them to Bjorn. They've only just faced their first challenge without him, they've more to overcome without the help of their wise but eccentric Wizard-Friend.

Again with the prose. Long Lake and Lake Town are... And the illustration! If anyone ever develops a way to travel through fictional realities let me know, I want to see Lake Town in person.

I like the idea that the men of Lake Town sing a song of the Dwarf-kings returning and bringing prosperity because I'm pretty sure it's ironic.

The narrative presents Bilbo as a bit of a jerk, but he has a point when he says to the angry Dwarves "Hey, you're alive and free aren't you?"

Seriously. Bombur is just the punching bag of this narrative.

River-trolls?

And the men are all excited by the return of the Dwarves.

And the elves immediately interrupt proceedings to try and recapture the Dwarves, but Thorin telling the truth and the old stories shut that nonsense down.

Another song!

Seriously, a week? These guys take long breaks. Most stories of this kind of journey have breaks of maybe a night?

Bilbo is sick and reprehensive about the coming last leg of the journey.

The Elf-King continues to be a ****, and the Master of Lake-Town is more reasonable but still kind of eh.

I have the strangest feeling that these ponies shall meet a similar fate to those from earlier in the story.

[Gnoman]

Staying for a week is much more reasonable than the day or two that you would normally see in this sort of story. The dwarves are half dead or worse, Bilbo is very sick, and it takes time to recover from that.

The reaction of the Master - that the Dwarves are more likely to just make Smaug mad than they are to restore the King Beneath The Mountain, even if Thorin is legit - is perfectly reasonable. The implied threat to his position and accompanying distrust is less so.

[factotum]

As for the Elves, I've noted this earlier, but Tolkien's elves are not the goody-two-shoes that so many ripoffs of his work have them as. I realise it's pretty unlikely you'll ever read the Silmarillion, so to give you an idea, this is part of the Doom of Mandos from that book (spoilered just in case I'm wrong):

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"Upon the house of Fëanor the wrath of the Valar lieth from the West unto the uttermost East, and upon all who will follow them it shall be laid also. Their oath will drive them, and yet betray them, and ever snatch away the treasures they are sworn to pursue. All things shall end evil that they begin well, and through treason of kin unto kin, and the fear of treason, shall this come to pass. The Dispossessed shall they be forever."

Basically, the Valar are angelic beings, and you have to *really* screw up to tee them off this much!