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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Mobius Twist's Avatar

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    Default How stupid is this PC-race rejiggering?

    Obligatory "my world, my rules" nonsense out of the way, I need to gauge how unworkable this idea is:

    Gnomes are mushroom spawn people who are effectively clonal. Every one of them starts off looking the same and distinguish oneself by adulthood through the act of creation (i.e.: inventions).
    Gnomes live underground on a specific island chain.

    The surface of the same island chain hosts orcs. Orcs are all biologically female and reproduce via parthenogenesis.

    In a confluence of events, the two races met and found that a mature gnome can meld wholly with an orc (think: male and female anglerfish) and in doing so combine into a stronger/smarter harem being. A culture of leaders/prominent figures in Orc society thus formed on the basis of controlling access to Gnomes. A high warlord may get 10 gnomes attached and become so powerful as to sweep all opposition aside, hence controls are culture-wide and enforced globally.

    Gnomes consider it a high honor to distinguish themselves enough to allow such a blending of characteristics. Their culture is all about inventing things and then transcending their clonal self.
    Orcs see the blending as a status thing as well and voluntarily protect the island chain and their access to a whole race of effective power-ups.

    Adventurers (and notable NPCs) may come from two strands:

    1) An orc/gnome rejects the standard cultural beliefs and seeks to prove the self is as vital as the blending, setting out to achieve something beyond the islands.
    2) A dire event throws a hero of the united people into the broader world.

    I have an orc NPC that met a gnome, found love, and couldn't bear to unite. They both ran away and adventured, going so far as to permanently polymorph the gnome into another creature to remove the temptation.
    "With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine."

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  2. - Top - End - #2
    Librarian in the Playground Moderator
     
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    Default Re: How stupid is this PC-race rejiggering?

    That's a pretty cool and flavorful way of doing it. Gnomes as a fungal infection on orcs? Orcs as parthenogenic? Awesome.

    Now, since orcs are listed as female, does that mean they can reproduce with humans (or others)? Or do they just have a female appearance?

    ETA: As an addendum... while it is not MY problem, I imagine some people will have objections to calling them "orcs" and "gnomes" because you are changing them so radically. I'd ignore those people; the terms mean what you want them to mean.
    Last edited by LibraryOgre; 2021-07-23 at 03:30 PM.
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  3. - Top - End - #3
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Goblin

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    Default Re: How stupid is this PC-race rejiggering?

    I really like the whole anglerfish comparison. I know I would love to play in this sort of world. I think there should be alot of direct interplay between the races like this.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Maat Mons's Avatar

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    Default Re: How stupid is this PC-race rejiggering?

    Are the combined beings going to be playable? If so, the lore that they're better than either of the base creatures may conflict with the goal of having all race options be balanced.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: How stupid is this PC-race rejiggering?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hall View Post
    ...I imagine some people will have objections to calling them "orcs" and "gnomes" because you are changing them so radically. I'd ignore those people; the terms mean what you want them to mean.
    I would generally agree.
    On the other hand, I would also ask: is there a specific reason that these races need to be gnomes and orcs? Would you lose anything vital in calling them something else?
    I would absolutely ignore the people who take issue "'cause it's different", but I think some people may be genuinely confused, and that is something to consider.
    It's your setting, your world, your game. But words mean things, and deviating from those meanings should be done deliberately and carefully.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: How stupid is this PC-race rejiggering?

    The surface of the same island chain hosts orcs. Orcs are all biologically female and reproduce via parthenogenesis.
    You lose me here. Just to clarify, are you saying the orcs are clearly female and are using parthenogenesis as a fall-back (i.e. it's a setting mystery where the males are), or are clearly parthenogenic, and non-orcs are idiots who refer to orcs as female based on a shallow understanding of their body structure? I'm asking if orcs are chickens and the absence of roosters is a setting mystery, or if orcs are amoebas and only a moron thinks of them as having genders.


    Gnomes consider it a high honor to distinguish themselves enough to allow such a blending of characteristics.
    If they're sophonts, you need a lot more work to build a culture built around a death cult where the highest honor involves killing yourself. If your intent is that this works like the Star Trek Trill, with Gnomes as the Trill symbionts and Orcs as the Trill, and the result of the meld is a new entity consisting of all member entities "at once", you need world-building on par with, well, the Trill.

    Adventurers (and notable NPCs) may come from two strands:

    1) An orc/gnome rejects the standard cultural beliefs and seeks to prove the self is as vital as the blending, setting out to achieve something beyond the islands.
    2) A dire event throws a hero of the united people into the broader world.
    Wouldn't the latter be radically more powerful than the former, assuming your meld mechanics exist and are the upgrade you've protrayed them as?
    Last edited by quindraco; 2021-07-26 at 02:23 PM.

  7. - Top - End - #7
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    Default Re: How stupid is this PC-race rejiggering?

    Quote Originally Posted by quindraco View Post
    You lose me here. Just to clarify, are you saying the orcs are clearly female and are using parthenogenesis as a fall-back (i.e. it's a setting mystery where the males are), or are clearly parthenogenic, and non-orcs are idiots who refer to orcs as female based on a shallow understanding of their body structure? I'm asking if orcs are chickens and the absence of roosters is a setting mystery, or if orcs are amoebas and only a moron thinks of them as having genders.
    What I've been able to gather, Neither? They are an all female species. And they reproduce via Parthenogenisis. This is not something new or Foreign, look up the Whiptail Lizard, they're a very real all-female species that reproduce by parthenogenesis.
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  8. - Top - End - #8
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Mobius Twist's Avatar

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    Default Re: How stupid is this PC-race rejiggering?

    A lot of good questions and concerns. Having these out there lets me think through the possibilities, so I appreciate every single one.

    Are the combined beings going to be playable? If so, the lore that they're better than either of the base creatures may conflict with the goal of having all race options be balanced.
    My thoughts: With largely clonal species, that boost from becoming combined is the difference between a commoner and a PC. Every additional combo is equivalent to another ASI + Feat, such that warrior-leaders who have access to more than one are exceptional and recognized, but not necessarily unbeatable.

    On the other hand, I would also ask: is there a specific reason that these races need to be gnomes and orcs? Would you lose anything vital in calling them something else?
    I would absolutely ignore the people who take issue "'cause it's different", but I think some people may be genuinely confused, and that is something to consider.
    It's your setting, your world, your game. But words mean things, and deviating from those meanings should be done deliberately and carefully.
    I played in many default worlds and settings and found a lot of the PC races blurring together. What's the difference between a basic rock gnome and a mountain dwarf? They live underground, mine minerals, have darkvision and...? I made a Tasha's approach-hybrid and let everyone choose a +2/+1 and Feat for their character, so race stuff is where the differences come in. I understand the whole "your dwarf isn't the usual dwarf" concern; I'm piggy-backing a lot of phenotypic stuff onto the existing templates, hoping that my divergence is just a bit of explanatory flavor for why the races are distinct.

    I wanted races and origins to have some external causes and reasons for existing, beyond "a god who look like a dwarf made dwarves in his image." My dwarves are largely an Arctic species, short and compact to preserve body heat, darkvision that helps hunt during the arctic night, possessed of an innate resistance to cold, given a cultural proficiency in survival, typically white-haired, etc. It felt like it made sense to me.

    Elves are svelte monkeys who live (mostly) in treetops of a jungle environment and benefit from their grace and light weight to maneuver without touching the ground. I have a Pallid Elf PC who grew up in a sun-deprived section of said jungle that had tree density effectively block light, explaining some characteristics.

    Once I got humans, elves, and dwarves onto the field, thoughtlessly added halflings without giving them a qualifier, and then cut off PC races there at game start. I'm expanding the world as the players discover and travel, so I have a chance to explain "this is a new race and here's why it is like it is" gradually in-game. Hopefully it's less shocking that way.

    Wouldn't the latter be radically more powerful than the former, assuming your meld mechanics exist and are the upgrade you've protrayed them as?
    For gnomes specifically, I have a face that they all wear at birth that looks like this famous Chippewa Native named John Smith; it just screams GNOME to me. If a player chooses to play a straight gnome, they get to embrace an isolated culture that revolve around the act of invention, ala Dave Kellet's excellent Drive comic's "Continuum of Makers". With no biological imperative or differentiation, the underground culture has an innate advantage in creation as a means of standing out from the crowd.

    Couple that with the island chain's long-standing anti-magic effect, means that at game start the Gnomes have made leaps and bounds technologically and are possessed of firearms on the level of Fire Lance, bringing a major shift in power in favor of their race. Only at the start. My PCs are currently en route to that island chain to figure out who is making and distributing firearms to their local part of the world, throwing all manner of politics into turmoil.

    If they're sophonts, you need a lot more work to build a culture built around a death cult where the highest honor involves killing yourself.
    I agree, that's a part that's hard to justify. The meld is a relatively new development compared to lifetimes of the two races living apart in ignorance of one another. Previously, a gnome would have been able to meld with some underground fauna to give it a gnome-level intellect, but melding with another sophont and becoming a gestalt greater than its parts is still being processed (by me, as well as the cultures).

    Thinking out loud, there's a limited supply of gnomes available for melds, which means it's a controlled supply. It may be seen as an honor, and treated as such by the orcs above as well, but even so not every single gnome who distinguishes themselves is going to volunteer for the process. Perhaps it's an age-thing: once a gnome has produced all the inventions one can in a lifetime, and is facing the end of existence, an honor granted to the greats is to extend their life via the meld and bring their genius onward to the above-lands. Less a death and more an extension/rebirth.

    You lose me here. Just to clarify, are you saying the orcs are clearly female and are using parthenogenesis as a fall-back (i.e. it's a setting mystery where the males are), or are clearly parthenogenic, and non-orcs are idiots who refer to orcs as female based on a shallow understanding of their body structure? I'm asking if orcs are chickens and the absence of roosters is a setting mystery, or if orcs are amoebas and only a moron thinks of them as having genders.
    Orcs are a stand-alone creatures who, in the absence of a second gender, naturally and typically, produce offspring via parthenogenesis. They consider this a viable adaptation for a warrior species and are able to dynamically swell their ranks in times of conflict without the need for access to males. As a culture, they embrace strength, travel, and discovery, which means once you land on some foreign shores you want to reproduce reliably and have some back-up. The process is still "baby-in-belly" pregnancy, just without a man contributing half of the genetic material, and the whole process going quicker and less painfully overall.

    That said, there are half-orcs out there in the world, meaning they are capable of your "default" biological reproduction if the choice is available. The half-orcs are rare where the PCs started out, meaning very few ever travelled that way. For people less familiar with the race, an Orc may well be "powerfully-built person" with the assumed gender of male. They'd be wrong, but that's assumptions for you.

    I enjoy the ability to branch out beyond typical D&D gender norms, too, but that's just a side benefit. One that my LGBTQ players will appreciate.
    "With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine."

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  9. - Top - End - #9
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Mobius Twist's Avatar

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    Default Re: How stupid is this PC-race rejiggering?

    As an aside, I'll eventually introduce dragons back in the world and establish a lifecycle that's very close to a eusocial society, ala naked mole rats or insects.

    A single fertilized dragon egg will shed spores that will produce reptilian kobolds. They will work based mostly on instinct to establish the correct environment to hatch the egg. Upon hatching, the dragon inside will consume the kobolds (who willingly stand there and get eaten) as early sustenance and grow.

    Depending on the environment created, the dragon adapts en-ovum to be a fire-adapted type, water-adapted type, etc.

    Unfertilized eggs laid by a dragon are laid in hatches and produce dragonborn. These are sophonts who, in the presence of a dragon, receive a mental/pheromonal override and act directly in service to said dragon. If the dragon ever abandons the area, the dragonborn recover their sophont nature and act of their own accord (establishing small-scale hierarchies and cultures).

    I've got an early encounter planned where the players will start encountering small fire elementals as a result of an egg-hatching process opening a portal to a fire-spewing dimension burns down the forest they're travelling through. Inspired by California wildfires of recent past!
    "With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine."

    -RFC 1925

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