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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Moon domain - inconsistency

    Quote Originally Posted by Moon Domain
    Granted Powers: Turn or destroy lycanthropes as a good cleric turns undead. Use these abilities a total number of times per day equal to 3 + Cha modifier.
    The moon domain from the Forgotten Realms setting allows for the turning/destroying of lycanthropes. However, on page 128 of Silver Marches, Kuldus Droum a werebear cleric of Malar has the moon domain and the ability to 'SA rebuke lycanthropes'. Further into the statblock it says 'Domains: Moon (turn or destroy lycanthropes 2/day)'.

    Rebuking lycanthropes makes a lot more sense for a cleric of Malar than turning lycanthropes. Is Kuldus really rebuking lycanthropes, or is this just a mistake?

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    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Moon domain - inconsistency

    Quote Originally Posted by redking View Post
    The moon domain from the Forgotten Realms setting allows for the turning/destroying of lycanthropes. However, on page 128 of Silver Marches, Kuldus Droum a werebear cleric of Malar has the moon domain and the ability to 'SA rebuke lycanthropes'. Further into the statblock it says 'Domains: Moon (turn or destroy lycanthropes 2/day)'.

    Rebuking lycanthropes makes a lot more sense for a cleric of Malar than turning lycanthropes. Is Kuldus really rebuking lycanthropes, or is this just a mistake?
    It might be worth while just making a second moon domain maybe call it darkmoon or simply make the functionality of the turning based on alignment if you are the dm.

    In general WotC isn't great at editing so its hard to say what the mistake was...

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    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Moon domain - inconsistency

    FWIW, ability to rebuke lycanthropes can be granted by Moon domain in the Curse of the Moon (by Sean K Reynolds), and by Howling Moon domain for witches (Liber Mysterium: The Netbook of Witches & Warlocks)

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    Psyren's Avatar

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    Default Re: Moon domain - inconsistency

    I'd treat it like undead honestly - good get to turn, evil get to rebuke, neutral get to choose.

    An alternate way of handling it - you can turn lycanthropes who oppose your G/E alignment, rebuke ones that share it, and both if you're neutral.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Moon domain - inconsistency

    I'd go with the second moon domain with a separate effect, or make it dependent on whether you are a lycanthrope yourself... Making it alignment based could result in good lycanthropes being at constant risk of turning and destroying themselves.
    Speaking of lycanthrope clerics, Google says 3e Malar is chaotic evil and the SRD says werebears are lawful good, with all lycanthropes being drawn towards their listed alignment over time if they are not already of that alignment. Unless I'm missing something (I'm not really familiar with any campaign setting specific materials, so there may be a Forgotten Realms thing I'm not aware of), that cleric would end up with an alignment that diametrically opposes hits deity, causing him to fail out of favor and lose his powers. Two inconsistencies in one entry?
    "Technically correct" is the best kind of correct.

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    hamishspence's Avatar

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    Default Re: Moon domain - inconsistency

    That cleric is CE. "Always X alignment" just means that exceptions are "either unique, or rare".
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    Devil

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    Default Re: Moon domain - inconsistency

    Only infected lycanthropes are pushed into the listed alignment. Born lycanthropes can change their alignment like anybody else. Sure, an evil born werebear is as rare as a good drow or a lawful red dragon, but it's not impossible.

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    hamishspence's Avatar

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    Default Re: Moon domain - inconsistency

    Drow are only Usually NE, and not "Always evil (any)" so good drow are probably commoner than "chromatic dragons with atypical alignments" are.
    Last edited by hamishspence; 2021-07-29 at 09:26 AM.
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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Moon domain - inconsistency

    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    That cleric is CE. "Always X alignment" just means that exceptions are "either unique, or rare".
    In the case of lycanthropes, though, they need to make a saving throw every time they shift into animal form or else their alignment changes. Eventually they will roll a natural 1 and fail the save, forcing them into their appropriate alignment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tzardok View Post
    Only infected lycanthropes are pushed into the listed alignment. Born lycanthropes can change their alignment like anybody else. Sure, an evil born werebear is as rare as a good drow or a lawful red dragon, but it's not impossible.
    Ah, there's the bit I was missing. Didn't know that natural lycanthropes weren't subject to the alignment shift.
    "Technically correct" is the best kind of correct.

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    Troacctid's Avatar

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    Default Re: Moon domain - inconsistency

    In a conflict between a general rule and an NPC statblock, the statblock is considered authoritative only for that creature. Anyone else, use the general rule.

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Devil

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    Default Re: Moon domain - inconsistency

    Quote Originally Posted by Troacctid View Post
    In a conflict between a general rule and an NPC statblock, the statblock is considered authoritative only for that creature. Anyone else, use the general rule.
    In this case it is a conflict within an NPC statblock.

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    Thurbane's Avatar

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    biggrin Re: Moon domain - inconsistency

    Quote Originally Posted by Tzardok View Post
    In this case it is a conflict within an NPC statblock.
    An error in a WotC stat block?


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    Remuko's Avatar

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    Default Re: Moon domain - inconsistency

    Quote Originally Posted by Thurbane View Post
    An error in a WotC stat block?

    Inconceivable you say?


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    hamishspence's Avatar

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    Default Re: Moon domain - inconsistency

    Quote Originally Posted by Vaern View Post

    Ah, there's the bit I was missing. Didn't know that natural lycanthropes weren't subject to the alignment shift.
    Yup - and the fluff section for that were bear specifically states he was "born a werebear".
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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Moon domain - inconsistency

    Thanks for the replies. I will consider the question in the OP answered. The consensus seems to be that both turn and rebuke are fine for the moon domain, whatever it says by RAW.

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