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    Default Star Wars - Force-based technologies?

    I am currently working on a character concept for a Star Wars RPG 5e, and the thread I am pulling on at the moment involved the interaction of the Force and Technology.

    I wanted to do a quick mental check of the extent of technology that are expressedly based off Force powers of the user.

    the Star Forge, and everything involving the Rakatas is pretty obvious. They were the true Force Techno creators.

    Holochrons seem to be restricted to use by Force Users. Have we ever established if the contemporary Star Wars civilization can create more Holochrons? We know Jedi and Sith have been using them from The Old Republic up to the Galactic Empire.

    I don't think it was established that lightsaber technology is inherently linked to the force power of its user. Its dangerous to use without training, but it's not actually powered by the Force.

    Any other examples?

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    Default Re: Star Wars - Force-based technologies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cikomyr2 View Post
    I am currently working on a character concept for a Star Wars RPG 5e, and the thread I am pulling on at the moment involved the interaction of the Force and Technology.

    I wanted to do a quick mental check of the extent of technology that are expressedly based off Force powers of the user.

    the Star Forge, and everything involving the Rakatas is pretty obvious. They were the true Force Techno creators.

    Holochrons seem to be restricted to use by Force Users. Have we ever established if the contemporary Star Wars civilization can create more Holochrons? We know Jedi and Sith have been using them from The Old Republic up to the Galactic Empire.

    I don't think it was established that lightsaber technology is inherently linked to the force power of its user. Its dangerous to use without training, but it's not actually powered by the Force.

    Any other examples?
    What about hyperspace navigation? The pilots who found the lane linking the Sith territories to the Old Republic and subsequently triggered the Great Hyperspace War were Force-sensitive. It's not a Jedi skill specifically, but I suspect among the explorers who chart out hyperspace travel lanes the really successful one are extremely strong in the Force, even if they are not trained Jedi or some other tradition.

    Perhaps there are skills related to Hyperspace navigation which closely correlate to Force Use? I remember that Palpatine had all kinds of secret hyperspace routes into places like the Deep Core, and this also explains why Sith Infiltrators were able to travel the galaxy unimpeded by ordinary law enforcement. I don't know , again, if that actually requires Force Use but being strong in the Force definitely wouldn't hurt in that or any other high-risk profession.

    In the Traviss books there is a Jedi Agricultural Corps, to which Padawans are sent when they fail the trials. They then spend the rest of their career helping crops grow and life to flourish. Possibly there are other jobs for former or failed Jedi, such as medical professionals or, heck, even card players. I have this imagination of a former failed Jedi sitting at a sabacc table and raking in the winnings, then leaving just before things get ugly because precognition tells him when the other players are about ready to pull blasters.

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    Default Re: Star Wars - Force-based technologies?

    The Darkstryder campaign dealt with that.
    It dates back to when West End Games had the license but handled that concept to a degree.

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    Would you count Jedi Shadow Bombs? They're basically just proton torpedoes that have their propellent removed and replaced with more explosives, which Jedi pilots used when fighting the Yuuzhan Vong. The idea is they would basically just use the Force to fling them at enemy ships, so that there would be no visible propellant trail to allow visual tracking of the torpedoes.
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    Default Re: Star Wars - Force-based technologies?

    The most prevalent Force-based 'technology' is the broad field of Sith Alchemy, which uses the Force to manipulate life forms. Done crudely this simply creates berserker mutants, but with greater refinement it can be used to do all sorts of things, including long range emotional manipulation, massive energy accumulation, terraforming, sleeper agents activated years later, and more. You can even create zombies.

    The light side version of this process is using the Force in medicine, but it has not been officially developed very far beyond using a Jedi 'lay on hands' kind of ability. That said, there is a Jedi Medical Corps and it even exists in both versions of canon (though Rig Nema is the only named character acknowledged as a member).
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    Default Re: Star Wars - Force-based technologies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cikomyr2 View Post

    I don't think it was established that lightsaber technology is inherently linked to the force power of its user. Its dangerous to use without training, but it's not actually powered by the Force.
    There may be an element of "any technology with "kyber" in it, is vastly more powerful than physics would suggest, because of the Force".

    https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Kyber_crystal
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    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    There may be an element of "any technology with "kyber" in it, is vastly more powerful than physics would suggest, because of the Force".
    Well, those elements of physics are an (incompletely) understood part of the Galaxy, Far, Far Away. The Force effects inanimate objects and even certain life forms (yes, most of which have 'crystal' in their name somewhere) in predictable ways, because the Force is part of the physics of Star Wars - it is in fact best conceptualized overall as a fifth fundamental force alongside gravity, electromagnetism and the strong and weak nuclear forces. That's why it is possible for people who are not Force sensitive to manipulate kyber crystals to do things like build the death star and why certain Force powers can be impacted by other physical phenomena - such as the use of high voltage electrical discharges to override the Force Possession ability of Darth Vitiate.


    One, a related note, one this you can do with the Force is manipulate matter on the nano or even atomic scale. This ability, known as Art of the Small takes advantage of 'size matters not' on the very low end. The full implications of this ability have not been explored as yet, but they are very powerful, even though existing examples suggest such manipulations are slow, time-consuming, and exhausting. Star Wars in general has a fairly limited grasp on nanotech (no one's fault, it really wasn't on the radar in the 1970s), but there are a few examples - such as the nano-droids Bariss Offee used to bomb the Jedi Temple. So potentially a technologically inclined force user could create specialized gear through nanoscale manipulations.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mechalich View Post
    Well, those elements of physics are an (incompletely) understood part of the Galaxy, Far, Far Away. The Force effects inanimate objects and even certain life forms (yes, most of which have 'crystal' in their name somewhere) in predictable ways, because the Force is part of the physics of Star Wars - it is in fact best conceptualized overall as a fifth fundamental force alongside gravity, electromagnetism and the strong and weak nuclear forces. That's why it is possible for people who are not Force sensitive to manipulate kyber crystals to do things like build the death star and why certain Force powers can be impacted by other physical phenomena - such as the use of high voltage electrical discharges to override the Force Possession ability of Darth Vitiate.


    One, a related note, one this you can do with the Force is manipulate matter on the nano or even atomic scale. This ability, known as Art of the Small takes advantage of 'size matters not' on the very low end. The full implications of this ability have not been explored as yet, but they are very powerful, even though existing examples suggest such manipulations are slow, time-consuming, and exhausting. Star Wars in general has a fairly limited grasp on nanotech (no one's fault, it really wasn't on the radar in the 1970s), but there are a few examples - such as the nano-droids Bariss Offee used to bomb the Jedi Temple. So potentially a technologically inclined force user could create specialized gear through nanoscale manipulations.
    I mean, the Star Wars universe has pretty powerful ion weaponry. So I think a "nanobot swarm" scenario to be less threatening in that verse than in most others where you don't have the supertech anti-tech weaponry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cikomyr2 View Post
    I mean, the Star Wars universe has pretty powerful ion weaponry. So I think a "nanobot swarm" scenario to be less threatening in that verse than in most others where you don't have the supertech anti-tech weaponry.
    A 'grey goo' scenario is less threatening in Star Wars than in some other space fantasy universes (though it's kind of overblown generally, since grey goo is actually vulnerable to a lot of things), but there's a lot of other stuff you can do with nanotech that just isn't in Star Wars in any sort of systemic fashion. Star Wars, as a franchise, has always been technologically focused on large-scale macro-engineering processes, most famously the Death Star itself - a moon-sized space station designed to blow up planets. This is very much in keeping with the time frame in which it was produced - the post-war culmination of the massive industrial developments unlocked by WWII itself - and Lucas' own background, as he was heavily into American automotive culture.

    Star Wars long envisioned technology in large-scale fashion and has struggled to adapt to the miniaturization revolution of modern electronics. A good example is the character of C-3PO. He provides an essential function as a translator in a universe with millions of languages, but as a full-sized humanoid he's about the least convenient way to handle that particular problem available, but it wasn't until The Bad Batch showed up in Season 7 of TCW that an updated translation technology - the translation software embedded in Tech's visor - actually showed up onscreen (the EU threw out cumbersome workarounds for years, including just having Revan speak upwards of a dozen languages in KOTOR).
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    Default Re: Star Wars - Force-based technologies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cikomyr2 View Post
    I don't think it was established that lightsaber technology is inherently linked to the force power of its user. Its dangerous to use without training, but it's not actually powered by the Force.
    IIRC there was an early draft where the colour of a lightsaber depended on who was wielding it at the time, including a scene where Vader turned Luke's lightsaber red.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Prime32 View Post
    IIRC there was an early draft where the colour of a lightsaber depended on who was wielding it at the time, including a scene where Vader turned Luke's lightsaber red.
    This was (sortof) subsequently canonized in the Disney canon in that Ahsoka was able to take a pair of red lightsaber crystals and turn them white by 'purifying' them somehow, implying that the red lightsaber crystals used by the Sith and other dark siders are somehow corrupted from the original form.
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    Default Re: Star Wars - Force-based technologies?

    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    There may be an element of "any technology with "kyber" in it, is vastly more powerful than physics would suggest, because of the Force".

    https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Kyber_crystal
    Gotta love that shift. "Legends had like a ton of different crystals that could have different effects, and all interact with technology. Let's scrap that and just have one Magic Crystal and screw anything else."

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    Default Re: Star Wars - Force-based technologies?

    The Ssi-Ruuk (Truce at Bakura, immediately-post ROTJ) did some sort of thing where they used souls to power and run their technology. There was a force interaction involved in that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mechalich View Post
    This was (sortof) subsequently canonized in the Disney canon in that Ahsoka was able to take a pair of red lightsaber crystals and turn them white by 'purifying' them somehow, implying that the red lightsaber crystals used by the Sith and other dark siders are somehow corrupted from the original form.
    Hm. I preferred it when they were just colors honestly. Now I'll never have my scene of a Jedi Master showing a padawan stored away red lightsabers and teaching them that they're nothing but tools and that color doesn't actually matter and to think beyond the material. Now its just another form of DnD divine magic.
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    Default Re: Star Wars - Force-based technologies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    Hm. I preferred it when they were just colors honestly. Now I'll never have my scene of a Jedi Master showing a padawan stored away red lightsabers and teaching them that they're nothing but tools and that color doesn't actually matter and to think beyond the material. Now its just another form of DnD divine magic.
    Seconded. Hell, in Legends Leia's first lightsaber was red.
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    Default Re: Star Wars - Force-based technologies?

    I was under theimpression that "Kyber" was a category. all of the previous kinds of Lightsaber crystals still exist but now they're grouped together as subcategories of force-sensitive living crystals, so if you get the pearl out of a krayt dragon you can still make a lightsaber out of it.

    An accordig to a Disney Canon Darth Vader comic, the reason Sith Lightsabers ar read is becuase they've been "Bled." Essentially,a Sith hunts down and kills a Jedi, then harvests the crystal from the lightsaber and Basically uses the force to torture the crystal until it proverbially bleeds.

    And last time I checked Synth crystals are still a thing and can be red without evil.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    I was under theimpression that "Kyber" was a category. all of the previous kinds of Lightsaber crystals still exist but now they're grouped together as subcategories of force-sensitive living crystals, so if you get the pearl out of a krayt dragon you can still make a lightsaber out of it.

    An accordig to a Disney Canon Darth Vader comic, the reason Sith Lightsabers ar read is becuase they've been "Bled." Essentially,a Sith hunts down and kills a Jedi, then harvests the crystal from the lightsaber and Basically uses the force to torture the crystal until it proverbially bleeds.

    And last time I checked Synth crystals are still a thing and can be red without evil.
    Yeah but.....thats not the point.

    the point is to look beyond the material thing. The Jedi are ascetics. A color being evil is dumb to me, because its all about looking beyond to recognize that evil has no physical form. lightsabers are aren't symbols of good and evil, they're just tools that you kill people with like any other weapon its just that only Jedi can use them because of the Force. The Sith insisting one one color lightsaber to mark them is the exact kind of emotional fueled stupidity that leads to the Dark Side, they want to go "I hate being calm! I hate being controlled! I'm going to have a red lightsaber to show you all! look at how dark my clothes are and how RED my lightsaber is! are you not scared of how SITH and POWERFUL I am!? Pay attention to me!". By having the colors mean nothing, the red lightsabers only happen because the Sith insist on choosing red each time as a symbol- it only matters because a Sith wants it to matter, when it doesn't.

    and sure you can argue that maybe an evil person doing all this still doesn't matter in that sense because an evil swordsman finding another swordsman, killing them so they can paint their blade red with their blood specifically only really matters to them and that washing it off has no symbolic meaning. But the intent clearly is moving towards "lightsabers are symbols of good and evil and can be corrupted and purified" when.....they aren't. not in universe at least. The Force corrupts people sure but that actually makes sense, because they're biological. The Force connects all LIFE. not MATTER.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    The Force corrupts people sure but that actually makes sense, because they're biological. The Force connects all LIFE. not MATTER.
    I would argue that the force is created by life but suffuses all matter.
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    Default Re: Star Wars - Force-based technologies?

    I had this pet theory where the "Plague" that caused all Ratakas to lose their force power was actually the Midichlorians.

    The Midichlorians spread to every living beings in the galaxy, and they basically spread the Rataka's natural force potentiel across the entire galaxy. Once in a while, a quirk of genetics or biology makes an individual have more so they delve deeper in the well of the Rataka's potential (some Rataka can also get that quirk). But this explains why the Force is related to life.


    it's a pet theory though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronnoc View Post
    I would argue that the force is created by life but suffuses all matter.
    Yeah but I don't want there to be evil lightsabers or evil colors though.
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    Default Re: Star Wars - Force-based technologies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    Yeah but I don't want there to be evil lightsabers or evil colors though.
    Seconded. That's more than a bit silly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    Yeah but I don't want there to be evil lightsabers or evil colors though.
    That's fair and I agree, especially regarding colors. Given holocrons being used as evil macguffins I suspect we're a bit past the point of precluding objects in general from being evil.
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    Default Re: Star Wars - Force-based technologies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    Yeah but I don't want there to be evil lightsabers or evil colors though.
    I mean, at least you have to deliberately make them evil.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    I mean, at least you have to deliberately make them evil.
    Look Rater.....I just really don't like Good Colors, Evil colors as a trope okay? I don't like binding morality to aesthetics, because I don't think cool aesthetics should limited by how good of a person you are. I get what your saying, I'm just not a fan of the practice as a narrative tool.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    Look Rater.....I just really don't like Good Colors, Evil colors as a trope okay? I don't like binding morality to aesthetics, because I don't think cool aesthetics should limited by how good of a person you are. I get what your saying, I'm just not a fan of the practice as a narrative tool.
    And that's fine. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying there are mitigating factors.

    Though from what I can tell, synth crystals are still red by default without evil, and there might still be some naturally occurring varieties that are naturally red, I haven't double-checked.

    ...Though if Ie ver do that "Darth Imperius in the time of the Prequels" thing I'm going to stress that Lord Kallig's lightsaber has a synth crystal. I'm not sure that works out timeline-wise, but it sidesteps any moral issue of a red lightsaber.
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    Default Re: Star Wars - Force-based technologies?

    :Nods:, I can see why. Killing people because of the color of their lightsabers sounds suspiciously like killing dragons because they don't have shiny scales . It makes me think of how people have been judged not on the content of their character but on the color of ... other things about them, and the history of that is not good at all.

    Not to mention, there is such a thing as red-green colorblindedness. I wonder if there are any Jedi with that particular problem.

    Anyways, I agree. I'm not fond of the trope either.

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    Default Re: Star Wars - Force-based technologies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    I just really don't like Good Colors, Evil colors as a trope okay? I don't like binding morality to aesthetics, because I don't think cool aesthetics should limited by how good of a person you are. I get what your saying, I'm just not a fan of the practice as a narrative tool.
    Have you seen Better Call Saul? They use color to hint at morality on a much more complex, subtle way. It's pretty well done, IMO.

    Other that that, I largely agree with you.
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    Here's my 2 cents for the record:

    - Holochron technology seems to be some AI repository of knowledge, with a basic Force-using interface. Sith Holochrons are evil not because of the "Dark Side", but just because the AI was modeled to recreate evil personalities.

    - Holochron are one of the few Force-based technology, and we could hypothesize that, like the Hyperdrive, maybe it is a remnant of Rakata technology that survived across the Galaxy

    - Lightsabers activation and use are not Force-dependant, but the nuCanon of the Kyber Crystal changing color with Force User does not necessarily contradict that. See it as "the Crystal just resonates a certain way with certain users", and this resonance is what makes the color.

    Theoretically, you could make the argument that maybe you can still create lower-powered Lightsabers with stuff other than Kyber crystals, its just that Kyber Sabers are the strongest, most resilient and the power of the Eternal Battery.

    Having Kyber Lightsaber being rarer than ye average lightsaber can also be an interesting concept to toy around with. Because it makes every Kyber Saber truly unique; the Jedi equivalent of a magic sword.

    If you really, really want to make your **** up, you could then even argue that a Crystal that has served beside a Jedi Master until he becomes One with the Force (or was used/abused by a Sith Lord until his death) could be turned into a Holochron, with the Kyber Crystal being the storage medium of the personality the Holochron will recreate and access.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cikomyr2 View Post

    - Lightsabers activation and use are not Force-dependant, but the nuCanon of the Kyber Crystal changing color with Force User does not necessarily contradict that. See it as "the Crystal just resonates a certain way with certain users", and this resonance is what makes the color.
    A non-Force User has no problem switching a captured lightsaber off and on (Grievous, Han) and normally they're the same colour as they were when they were created (hence Grievous having both blue and green lightsabers, instead of all the same colour).


    Plus, even after Vader is declared a Sith Lord by Palpatine, his lightsaber blade is exactly the same colour (duel on Mustafar).


    The newcanon's idea, is that a Sith has to put a crystal through a specific "bleeding" ritual, to change the colour of the blade. Vader didn't have time to do this - moments after he turned to the Dark Side, he was sent to the Temple, then to Mustafar. Then Obi-Wan took his lightsaber, so after he was cyborgised, he had to do the ritual with a captured lightsaber crystal, rather than his own personal one.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    A non-Force User has no problem switching a captured lightsaber off and on (Grievous, Han)
    Right, and this is explicitly different from the Rakatan Forcesaber, which required drawing on the Force - specifically the dark side - in order to activate and sustain. In Legends, the focusing crystal was not the power source of the lightsaber and it took tens of thousands of years for conventional power generation technology to advance far enough to successfully replicate the use of the Force in producing a lightsaber-style blade (conventional handheld lightsabers without an external power pack don't appear until around 4000 BBY in the Legends timeline).

    Quote Originally Posted by Cikomyr2
    - Holochron are one of the few Force-based technology, and we could hypothesize that, like the Hyperdrive, maybe it is a remnant of Rakata technology that survived across the Galaxy
    Legends canon established that Holocrons were a modification of Rakatan 'datacron' technology, and that the Rakata gave the technology to make them to the Sith.

    On a more general note the Rakata are now a part of the Disney canon as well thanks to an incredibly obscure reference buried in a series of articles about the Millennium Falcon. However it seems likely that much of what was attributed to them in Legends will eventually be reproduced in a new canon, as that's the existing pattern overall.
    Now publishing a webnovel travelogue.

    Resvier: a P6 homebrew setting

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