Zodi Plays: The Legend of Zelda Majora's Mask (The Five Stages of Zelda-Game)

[Lord Raziere]

Yeah, I only know Ar Tonelico from like, searching for lets plays of videogames I'll never have time to experience the story myself because I wanted to experience them but didn't have the money to buy them.

My own opinion is that Ar Tonelico is great, probably not for everyone but great. It has such great attention to detail in how it makes its world and how it uses that to tell its stories by altering the situation of each continent that it takes place on, and how its mechanics encourage character growth and having some degree of moral complexity to them, none of the factions feel like they're written just to be evil at least to me, its classic videogame/anime fun in some respects. I don't find it as goofy as Zodi seems to, but Zodi seem to find a lot of things goofy that I don't, so I just chalk it up to Zodi seeing goofy wherever she wants.

On Croix: Statueman, Statueman. Does whatever a Statue Can. Cannot feel, does not emote, he escorts Reyvateils like a boat. Here comes the Sta-tue-maaaaaaaaaaaaan!!!

Cloche: *spoiled upper class religious person noises intensify*

I think I kinda remember Luka's deal but I have a good joke for her if/when you get to her regardless.

[LaZodiac]

Yeah, I only know Ar Tonelico from like, searching for lets plays of videogames I'll never have time to experience the story myself because I wanted to experience them but didn't have the money to buy them.

My own opinion is that Ar Tonelico is great, probably not for everyone but great. It has such great attention to detail in how it makes its world and how it uses that to tell its stories by altering the situation of each continent that it takes place on, and how its mechanics encourage character growth and having some degree of moral complexity to them, none of the factions feel like they're written just to be evil at least to me, its classic videogame/anime fun in some respects. I don't find it as goofy as Zodi seems to, but Zodi seem to find a lot of things goofy that I don't, so I just chalk it up to Zodi seeing goofy wherever she wants.

On Croix: Statueman, Statueman. Does whatever a Statue Can. Cannot feel, does not emote, he escorts Reyvateils like a boat. Here comes the Sta-tue-maaaaaaaaaaaaan!!!

Cloche: *spoiled upper class religious person noises intensify*

I think I kinda remember Luka's deal but I have a good joke for her if/when you get to her regardless.

Maybe it's just me but the implicit idea that all atoms are in fact sound, so you can make a nuclear bomb by singing really loud and emotionally, is inherently goofy. I also find some of the horny character designs, like the Tenba Leader, to be ludicrous enough to be legitimately funny. Like you've gone beyond erotic into straight up banana-pants. It's stuff like this and some of the plot revelations (Bishop Falss being a fake name, but his real name just being Kyle, an all-together unfitting normal human name) are just, very funny to me.

Honestly a highlight of Ar Tonelico is that not only the church, but the obviously corrupt mercenaries and the main antagonist faction are not actually like, EVIL. It's only people like Kyle and Bourd who are evil, the Tenba Leader and pretty much most of the Elemia Church were reasonable people- if a little too keen on following orders.

As for the people of Ar Tonelico 2... well, I can't be sure, but I don't really trust anyone in power at the moment. Cloche's presentation makes her feel more like a figure-head leader than anything else, and the entire IPD thing feels inherently suspect on multiple levels. I'm curious how it'll go!

[Lord Raziere]

I mean, sound as atoms is not goofy to me. Its a different kind of physics, of course it works differently and of course doesn't follow the logic of our own world. If a little thing like that is "goofy" you might as well consider all physics that aren't our own goofy. Furthermore, sound, light, matter these things are all already pretty linked together- both light and sound have wave forms, and transonic resonance allows sound to destroy matter by finding the right frequency, and at a certain level? waves and matter are the same. so sound replacing light in this instance is not too crazy.

the practical upshot of course is that a culture with this as fact wouldn't have the same attitude towards music as we do. when a song could potentially lead to some destructive, dangerous effect, sound itself becomes a weapon that must be regulated and thus any song that proves to make a destructive effect would be banned with only songs with beneficial effects being allowed to be sung, unlike our own where a song from a physical perspective is basically harmless and can only cause potential subjective psychological harm. but they don't go into this kind of problem, since its all Reyvateils meaning its all focused on them instead. Its a shortcut of this kind of worldbuilding that ignores the more interesting implications of this or that in favor of making a certain group more significant and focused on.

but yes, the designs are a bit horny, I just don't really feel the need to comment upon them. maybe I'm weird, but I can laugh when other people make comedy of it, but I don't really think about it much myself. To me, whether a design should be horny or not isn't really a universal value thing to me, because it works in some situations, it doesn't work in others, some people like that aspect of things and others don't, its not something that will ever be one size fits all and thus should be something more up to individual preference than anything else. you'll never truly get rid of horniness, nor will it ever be appropriate for all situations, therefore its something that should be evaluated from a subjective/circumstantial viewpoint to me.

[Qwertystop]

the practical upshot of course is that a culture with this as fact wouldn't have the same attitude towards music as we do. when a song could potentially lead to some destructive, dangerous effect, sound itself becomes a weapon that must be regulated and thus any song that proves to make a destructive effect would be banned with only songs with beneficial effects being allowed to be sung, unlike our own where a song from a physical perspective is basically harmless and can only cause potential subjective psychological harm. but they don't go into this kind of problem, since its all Reyvateils meaning its all focused on them instead. Its a shortcut of this kind of worldbuilding that ignores the more interesting implications of this or that in favor of making a certain group more significant and focused on.

To my understanding the way things work is that deliberate amplification of song into power requires more infrastructure and focus that can be done - I think I remember that somewhere in the background lore I got from wikis and conlang pages and such was some mention of the ancient people who, before the development of the Towers, the Hymmnos language with its grammatical structure for emotions, and Reyvateils who can sing in duet with overtones well beyond the human pitch range, used much less efficiently emotion-focusing languages that were sung in large choruses of highly trained humans. Not sure if that comes up in one of the other games (in addition to the Ar tonelico series there's two others, Ar nosurge and Ciel nosurge, which are ancient-predecessor prequels) or if it's just from side materials or pure fanon.

[LaZodiac]

From the depths of the PS2 era RPG library, we rise once more!

Zodi Streams: Ar Tonelico 2 [2] Dives, Drive-ins, and Dines

Video Length: 2:56:58

In this episode, we begin encountering some of the more meaty aspects of Ar Tonelico's gameplay. We get our second Reyveteil (Luca, Croix's childhood friend) and get to work out how IPD Outbreaks function as a bespoke gameplay mechanic, leading to some pretty potentially interesting minibosses down the line, and perhaps more if we can do more with our plague victims than simply beat them up. Luca IS a dive therapist after all, maybe we can... cure, the IPD from them? Who knows. Anyway speaking of Dive Therapy, we also learn about Dives, and the visual novel aspect of the Ar Tonelico series; going into a Reyveteil's mind to help them through emotional trauma and in the doing create song magic they can use to blow up your enemies or heal your wounds. This is a very intimate act... and ART2's fan-patch says that one of the things they changed was pulling back on just how intimate the original translation made it seem.

Which, I get. On the face of it, Diving is pretty intimate. And the game DOES present the idea that Dive Therapists are... basically sex workers (which we approve of here) and Luca is the only actual licensed therapist working in the best little whore house in Rakhel. So yeah, sure, this stuff is intimate and coded as sexual but surely the original localization can't be THAT bad.

... oh no.

[Lord Raziere]

Yeah, Ar Tonelico can be a bit...much? blunt? tactless? at times, its why I never expected you to stream this, since you seem to focus mainly on Nintendo stuff or cozy indie things that are just wholesome? But hey you seem to be having fun with it.

I can't really say much about the plot because even though it was long ago I'd probably start remembering clearer or looking up what it was if I focus too much, so let me telling you about my jumpchain character Ensara and her Ar Tonelico jump. now jumpchain is interesting because some jumps allow you to take positions in a story that no videogame or whatever would allow. thus Ensara was able to spend points to enter as a Reyvateil Origin- aka an Administrator of a Tower, but not any canon tower. Instead she got her own non-canon continent with its own problems to take care of:
called Tower of Rhaplanca, a tower built an isolated but wealthy nation centuries ago, powered by solar energy put on a mountain range with 5 million people, most of them living underground, mining the minerals and song stone while a minority live in four biospheres around the tower called hothouses with carefully tailored climates for food production. Its constantly trying to build more land but the more land they build the more energy expenditures become a concern, and the energy of the population goes into the arts and industry but excels at mega-engineering and biological sciences, however reyvateils are few in number, consisting of halfboods receiving stuff to take care of them, but Teru are in abundance and the Tower is designed to be a safe stable habitat, not for combat. She herself is known by the name Vielia, due to her needing an Ar Tonelico name for being basically the fourth Origin when there should only be three.

something like this is supposed to be like writing prompt for my Jumper's story in the world of Ar Tonelico. haven't come up with a particular story yet though. However it suggests that Rhaplanca is weaker or less combat oriented than the three canon Towers and thus could be the opportunity for a story where the Administrator is actually able to help for once she has to deal with other Towers trying to control Rhaplanca or something- Rhaplanca could be something newly discovered by the others as they restore the planet.

though reading through stuff on Song Servers, its interesting, different song servers have different programming languages- like a PC and a Mac (this is the example the wiki uses) so each one has different capabilities. So that could be a interesting detail to add. though looking at Rhaplanca, it seems less good for normal Song magic shenanigans and more for actually restoring the world given its specializations- or at least, making more towers/land to live on. the state of the reyvateils both being few in number and only halfbloods suggests that for whatever reason Rhaplanca never got pureblood Reyvateils and Ensara/Vielia will simply have to make do with what she has. oh re-reading the jump doc, thats a clear objective for me but one thats a spoiler for the third game, so can't say more on that.

it is a good example of Ar Tonelico's worldbuilding however that a fan was able to come up with an entire fourth tower thats real plausible sounding with its own particular problems that don't map to any of the others.

[LaZodiac]

Yeah, Ar Tonelico can be a bit...much? blunt? tactless? at times, its why I never expected you to stream this, since you seem to focus mainly on Nintendo stuff or cozy indie things that are just wholesome? But hey you seem to be having fun with it.

The rest of what you said is interesting but I wanted to focused on this bit right here.

Is... is that really my vibe? Cause I'd never really put much thought into what my vibe is so that's interesting to read- I do play a lot of Nintendo games but they seem pretty varied in tone and subject matter, and I don't actually think any of the indie games I've played are all that cozy? Rose of Winter is the one that seems closest to the "cozy and wholesome" feel but that game is also PRETTY horny, just in a Girl Focused way whereas Ar Tonelico is horny in a Boy Focused way.

Like, you're right that Ar Tonelico 2 is probably the most extreme of the games I've played (though Somnium Files 2 is up there, and as said Rose of Winter is SUPER horny, just from a different direction that makes it hit different), but I'm genuinely curious if other people see that as my vibe. It's, interesting to think about, and not something I dislike, I'm just surprised that I even have a vibe in the first place!

Anyway now I'm going to write a small essay about RPGs, my love for them, and why Ar Tonelico 2 is something I wanted to stream.

Spoiler: Spoiled mostly for length

Show

I like RPGs a lot. It's part of why I was so excited to play Evoland, since I know a fair bit about RPG history and it was billed to me as an RPG history game! Ar Tonelico 2 is from an era of RPGs where they really started to capitalize on the idea of "what if we made you play an anime", and as a result it ties into some of the typical shounen anime and manga tropes- the cool esoteric armour, the hot girls who all like you, tsundere ojou-sama types and pure uwu childhood friends and the like. Working Designs, the localization team for a lot of previous and contemporary to ART2, had a tendency to over-horny things, or add in horny, perverted jokes where there are none, so I'm honestly kind of amused to see that Ar Tonelico as a series just does naturally have some of that dog in it from the beginning, and the localization just amped it up too much. It feels historically relevant to my interests to be like "this sort of game is the game Working Design was trying to make when they localized Lunar the way they did). It's the dichotomy between regular RPG (sword and sorcery, DND and Wizardry inspired games) and what I think could be called Anime-RPGs (RPGs that are more inspired by anime and manga then fantasy sources).

Gust feels like one of the front-runners of Anime-RPG, and that's interesting to me given that in modern day, they seem to out-number the more typical RPG experience. I should clarify this is not meant as negative a term, just a descriptor of vibes, and like many terms it can get a bit muddy. Is Lulu's design in Final Fantasy 10 significantly difference from say, any character in Fairy Fencer? Not really, but I feel like there are differences in feel that still allow for some sort of division. FF10 has Lulu and her massive chest and her silly belt-dress, but that's just kind of incidental- modern Gust games are about cute girls with fat thighs doing alchemy and having cute adventures with their Gal Pals, so the sexualization of the character design comes off different. Maybe I'm just weird. Regardless, given Gust's prolific nature and how it feels like one of the first of its subgenre of RPG, it's interesting for me to explore their early roots.

It's also interesting to do a (fairly) comprehensive comparison of the fan-patch and the original work, because when a game has enough infamy to incite a full fan re-localization, Something Has Gone Wrong. The only other game I can think of that got this treatment is Fire Emblem Fates- a terribly written game with a localization that tries to fix some aspects but breaks other aspects... but with a fan-translation that sucks all the character out of the room in its desperate attempts to polish a D-Rank story. So I'm compelled to explore Ar Tonelico 2 for this reason- and that's not even getting into the fact that the first Ar Tonelico is such a formative experience in my relationship with Qwerty. Ar Tonelico 2 is a fascinating game from top to bottom AND is the sequel to a game I had hours upon hours of fun playing with my girlfriend!

[Lord Raziere]

Hm. Maybe I'm just misremembering your vibe? keep in mind, I was surprised by the tone of Cursed World when I read it, so its possible I just have some weird mental perception that I need to correct.

[LaZodiac]

Hm. Maybe I'm just misremembering your vibe? keep in mind, I was surprised by the tone of Cursed World when I read it, so its possible I just have some weird mental perception that I need to correct.

Another friend when asked agrees with you actually (to clarify, they said "well, yeah idk about the nintendo/indie part but the rest of it, if i had to pick a vibe genre for your streams it would probably be tending toward relaxed, easygoing, chill. which isnt to say you don't have fun like there are big moments, but outside of those youre there as an explorer or tour guide more than as a Reacter"). I'm going to send this to everyone I know and find out.

And anyone reading this feel free to weigh in. What is Zodi's Vibe?

[Rater202]

Generally wholesome interposed with occasional explosions of chaos.

[Lord Raziere]

Merry Christmas!

Also, doesn't the game mechanics mean that Luca is technically better at cooking than Cloche, given that Luca made a food item that actually heals you even if its the wrong food? After all, if it wasn't functional and tasty, no one would use it for that at all.

[LaZodiac]

Generally wholesome interposed with occasional explosions of chaos.

I like this!

Merry Christmas!

Also, doesn't the game mechanics mean that Luca is technically better at cooking than Cloche, given that Luca made a food item that actually heals you even if its the wrong food? After all, if it wasn't functional and tasty, no one would use it for that at all.

Yes, Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, and a good Sainte Nuit to you all! With that being said, lets continue...

Zodi Streams: Ar Tonelico 2 [3] Ludonarrative Dissononsense

Video Length: 3:25:52

Ludonarrative Dissonance is, in simple terms, the slipping of the gears between mechanical input and story output. You are playing a story about a man who is worried about his relationship with his wife and her worries about him getting hurt in his adventures... but you spend a lot of time gunning down mercenaries and this barely comes up. You spend the game using magic to revive people who get seriously injured to the point of being knocked out flat, but you can't revive them when the fancy lad in leather jumps her from behind. Stuff of that nature, where the play and story don't seem to match, and it takes you out of it. It is a useful term for describing why some games do not feel like they "click" right. You get this idea that your character is super strong and powerful and cool, but then they get got by a trap that, had you been playing, you'd be easily able to avoid. That shouldn't have knocked you out, you've been hit with it before and it does like minimal damage at best. What gives??

For my money, Ludonarrative Dissonance is a useful but often misused tool. The examples above where chosen because even though they're often called out as examples of it, I've always taken sort of umbrage with it. Nathan Drake kills a **** ton of men in what is arguably self defense, and it doesn't seem to come up as much as you'd think in discussions with his wife about "hey you should stop doing this whole adventurer thing". You can't revive Aerith with phoenix downs or life spells despite doing so constantly throughout the game. Stuff like that, that kinda sticks with a series forever as "that one bit people complain about every time it is brought up". These have never really hit for me, for a couple of reasons.

Not to get too deep into the weeds, but Nathan Drake's story in the Uncharted series is an Action Serial. It is meant to evoke the same feelings as Indiana Jones and Flash Gordon did- just with a more modern twist on things. The talking about his shooting people with a gun does come up in story, but "not to the degree it should" is, I think, a false statement. As an action serial hero, this sort of thing is MEANT to go by without comment. That's how the genre conventions work. If you want to buck them by all means, go for it, but you can't simply say the genre conventions are inherently bad without meeting them half way, you know? Yes, one could argue it feels weird, but it's what the game is going so is it really that bad? And as for the Aerith example, I genuinely just find this one to be wrong- Phoenix Down and Raise and all that are explicitly called out as curing the Knocked Out status effect. You aren't dead you're just fallen over. Final Fantasy 5 even plays with this by HAVING the characters try this, and being shown that no, if you're Dead-Dead, none of this stuff works. There's nothing weird here to me.

I bring this all up because "you need to swim in a bath with these crystals to gain their powers, but who (if anyone) gains the power is random based purely on the swimming behavior of the girls, and you have barely any control of this" is, ACTUALLY, ludonarrative dissonance that DOES actually hit home 100%. The entire stated purpose of the magical girl cyborg idol bath-time fun-time power up session is to get these crystal juices in them in the first place, why would they NOT just... hug the crystal they intend to get equipped? Why would they not just, you know, get it? Why make it a weird minigame that you have to actually put effort into doing when it really just boils down to "you equip the crystals you want and also have a chance for dialogue prompts to show up". You can do that by just having a menu to equip the crystals and THEN have the bath animation where they swim around, wash themselves, play with the toys and bath salts you put in. You could have all the goofy anime nonsense AND make it a mechanically simple process to get the damn crystals you want on the right girls! This is mind boggling to me from basically every level.

Anyway I hope you all enjoyed this one. The magical girl bath-time power up minigame isn't even like, in the top three weirdest **** that happens this stream, but it's what I chose to ramble about because it is the most interesting. Luca's first Cosmosphere being one of the thickest, most powerful walls I've ever seen is fascinating but not really a conversation topic, and the administration of Cloche's life-saving agent is... well, we now know for sure for sure the call is coming from inside the house when it comes to the horny stuff, it's not simply just that the original translation went a bit overboard with some basic innuendo-y stuff.

And again, Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, and have a joyous Sainte Nuit. We've got two streams left till the end of the year (and end of Qwerty's visit ;_;) so I hope to see you there.

[LaZodiac]

What if, hear me out, we did another Ar Tonelico 2 stream?

Zodi Plays: Ar Tonelico 2 [4] Disaster Cake-In

Video Length: 3:22:13

In this episode, we have the grand fortune of meeting the Klonoa voiced mascot character, Infelsphere Platomine Soope, a beloved and silly pillow creature, who belongs(?) to Amarie, the obvious archer/lyre player that has been following us since at least the talking blue dog monster. She ingratiates herself to our group, and after some mishaps and my most beloathed, "You heard the conversation bad so a misunderstanding has occurred" they head off to the Enna Palace Ruins... where Cloche's apparent mother died, among other things. Luca activates some hymnos magic runes and becomes linked with Soope, now able to understand his pupupu'ing, and we are introduced to our, antagonist(???), Chester the Sacred Army Commander. He's got his own deal going on with Amarie and maybe Reisha and really a lot of these characters ought to take a step back from their situation and communicate a bit better.

Anyway thanks to Chester we learn that it is like, almost 100% likely that Cloche IS Leyka/Reika, Luca's little sister... but that also, Luca is supposed to be the Holy Maiden Cloche. Luca is adopted by Reisha, and it's more or less stated she was taken from Enna Palace when it was destroyed, but when Reika had an IPD event the Holy Knights arrived and, well, we saw what happened in the opening. They took Leyka, made her be Cloche, and bob's your uncle (and Reisha's your mom, as the case may be). Hilariously, judging from Luca's responses after this event, it is likely that Luca has HERSELF already realized this plot twist, or at least part of it. Unfortunately for everyone involved however, Cloche's desire to help Reisha and Luca reconnect leads to the two Reyveteils fighting, and Cloche seemingly faints from the stress of it... and we need assistance with helping her, so to the Ironplate Desert we go to finally return to Pastalia.

And by that I mean it is time to do a bunch of crafting. The joke that Luca is Girl Bad At Cooking is a little basic, but I think it is saved by the addition of "Skycat is a horror fetishist and is enabling Luca's terrible cooking out of a desire to see what monster creations she will perform". If you need to use such a well trodden and kinda ****ty character aspect, twisting it in that way IS a good way to make it fresh. And Cloche's inability to NOT make bath-time fun-time objects out of explosives and poisons and the like is also pretty funny.

======

So, Hymnos. On the face of it, it is a basic replacement cypher for the English alphabet, with each symbol representing the basic A through Z symbols, with the addition of capital letters denoted by the lack of orbs. It's honestly really cool, and if I was a smarter woman I'd make a conlang myself to use for my writing, because it's honestly rather interesting. Qwerty, my beloved, is a great enjoyer of conlangs, and has shown a couple to me over the years, and Hymnos is one of her favorites by virtue of people outright making bespoke, real ass songs out of it!

Hymnos is (one of) the song-language of Ar Tonelico, a natural language that all Reyveteils can use. All song magic is done through Hymnos, and all of the really big important music tracks in the game are sung in it. Fans have translated these songs as best they can (Hymnos being a conlang that consists of symbols, but it is also a foreign language and thus doesn't use English words) and I honestly just adore stuff like this. No matter how weird or offputting or uncomfortable these games get, the dedication to building a world is something that'll always stand out to me.

That said, lets get into the meat of this. What the hell did Luca say that activated Soope's almonds? The full text is, translating simply the font, is [Was yea ra chs hymmnos mea, en fwal fwal]. The bit before the comma is a typical example sentence used by Hymnos scholars: it means, roughly, "I would be very glad to become a song". Given what Songs are and the importance of them to the setting, this could have many meanings, but is generally seen as an admission of acceptance. Becoming a Reyveteil is basically never a choice, so one would hope those who become one learn to accept it and become glad. [En fwal fwal] meanwhile, is trickier. [En] is a conjunction, meaning "to" or "therefor", and [fwal] means "wing". Since this doesn't fully scan to English when translated, there are a handful of versions of what this phrase could therefor mean when applied to that initial sentence.

"I would be very happy to turn myself into a song and spread my wings" - interpretation by Feinne, the LP Archives person who has done all these games

"I'll gladly become a Song, and into the wings shrouding me." - Interpretation by Fandom Wiki Staff

"I would gladly become a bird, so flap flap mother****er" - Interpretation by Me, LaZodiac, mostly as a joke to make Qwerty laugh (but also birds and songs are heavily associated with each other, and the land mass in ART1 is called the Wing of Elemia, so this bit of Hymnos magic connected to the Goddess that everyone lives for and relies upon may be a literal "I will become the Wing of Metafalls, the ground you stand upon" given a more elaborate and symbolic sounding covenant.)

Additionally, the song that plays after Luca recites the Hymnos is [EXEC_SOL=FAGE/]. The thing about these songs is that they always have a vaguely "programmy" feel to how they're named, so you can figure out some details about this song based on that. Execute Command, Sol=Fage. It probably means something, but I'm not sure myself- there's no high quality interpreted version of the lyrics, just the more direct translation by the Fandom wiki, which you can find in this video here. Qwerty, a scholar in her own right, says that "though the initiating line is one of strong happiness, the bulk of the emotional sections of the song seem to be about immense concentration", which would make this a bit more difficult to actually like, make scan into reasonable English. It also, to me at least, supports the idea that this song is related to the Goddess (and whoever has to succeed her) having to become the literal firmament of Metafalls so that the entire continent doesn't fall to pieces. A brief burst of happiness as she gladly goes forward, and then nothing but sheer grit and focus as she sings an entire paradise into being. I think this is an accurate read of the song, especially after having actually read the lyrics in that video since I hadn't done so until literally after writing all this.

So yeah. Hymnos! It's a hell of a thing!

[Qwertystop]

"Become a song" is more "express myself by singing" than "become a Reyvateil", I think, but basically yeah. And I just have no idea what the reduplication of "fwal" is meant for.

[LaZodiac]

"Become a song" is more "express myself by singing" than "become a Reyvateil", I think, but basically yeah. And I just have no idea what the reduplication of "fwal" is meant for.

Ah, yes, good point, I hadn't considered that.

I think the repetition of fwal is meant to evoke a stronger, sweeping gesture. Less "I'm going to do it" and more "I'm Going To Do It" if that makes any amount of sense?

[Lord Raziere]

I know things I could say about this but I can't say as usual. The knowledge is more relevant to the next game than this one anyways. and if you ever get around to that, you'll have probably forgotten this post anyways.

what I will say is, ever notice how many Reyvateils have angelic imagery associated with them? both Luca and Clothe have these weird ring hair decorations, Aurica had her wing-like headband in the previous game, Shurelia was dressed in all white and referred to as a goddess. the only one who doesn't fit this consistent imagery is Misha. that and angels are often depicted as singers in popular fantasy, with choirs and singing in general is often associated angels and divinity with phrases like "an angelic voice" or "singing like an angel". I'd imagine even with the political tensions and the plague they'd still be seen as angels in some manner, so the translation could make sense if you consider that they want to become this world's version of angels.

[LaZodiac]

I know things I could say about this but I can't say as usual. The knowledge is more relevant to the next game than this one anyways. and if you ever get around to that, you'll have probably forgotten this post anyways.

what I will say is, ever notice how many Reyvateils have angelic imagery associated with them? both Luca and Clothe have these weird ring hair decorations, Aurica had her wing-like headband in the previous game, Shurelia was dressed in all white and referred to as a goddess. the only one who doesn't fit this consistent imagery is Misha. that and angels are often depicted as singers in popular fantasy, with choirs and singing in general is often associated angels and divinity with phrases like "an angelic voice" or "singing like an angel". I'd imagine even with the political tensions and the plague they'd still be seen as angels in some manner, so the translation could make sense if you consider that they want to become this world's version of angels.

Very true! Also while Misha doesn't have that aesthetic, she does have that shrine maiden look that fits her role in the story (and First Game Antagonist has a slick demonic look to her, as wonderful contrast to this angelic imagery)

[LaZodiac]

The final stream of the year, posted the first day of the new year. That's how it goes sometimes.

Zodi Streams: Ar Tonelico 2 [5] I Did Forcefully Made

Video Length: 3:15:14

In this episode, we get a shockingly lot of plot done- we cut our way through the Ironplate Desert (which again I must point out is a "desert" purely because it's unworked metal plates as opposed to the artificial gardens and forests that make up the rest of the livable areas of the Rim, which is rad as hell) and reach our destination; a plot flag that allows Coconoa to finally fall to her IDP infection, revealing the shocking truth that she is a Reyveteil! Gasp! With luck she won't become a mechanical Reyveteil, but it'd be neat if she could be both Vanguard and magical girl idol, but I digress.

After that, we learn quite a few things. Namely, that the mysterious robot dog is the "Messenger of the Goddess", a personal pet of the true Goddess of Metafalls, and is hunting the Grand Bell church's upper staff for the Sacred Army... because the Chapel is responsible for assassinating Cloche's mother, the previous Maiden in a grand scheme to gain the power of the Goddess so they can build more livable land, damn the consequences. Aren't schisms within factions where both sides are actually depicted as having good and bad points fun?

Croix, for his part, manages to compartmentalize the whole "my side assassinated the Holy Maiden" and "my sister is contained in a prison hospital and may be dead now" in order to keep up working his beat... but it's clear that even Leglius, the order following stooge that he is, isn't fully subservient to the obviously evil leader of the Grand Bell. Will that be enough to stop Croix from joining team Funny Massacre Dog? Will it be sufficient enough that this statue-willed man will stay true to his ideals of being a CDC-Cop? Or will a third faction rise up behind Lady Cloche as she rebels against her gilded cage and forges a new path forward to a true green Metafalls? Tune in next time to find out.

... oh instead we're just having comedy antics of Croix and Amaria following Luca around? Nevermind then. Join us next time for that, then! Or Evoland 2 if this stream setup isn't viable across long distances.

All that above aside, we also had a really good Dive Session with Luca that really embodies the good parts of this game: here is a legitimately interesting conversation between Luca's semi-lucid surface layer brain and the first layer of her subconsciousness (a layer that is still actively like, surface present) arguing over whether Luca, the main Luca, wants Croix to go deeper into her or not. Neither want him to, but for differing reasons... and yet both DO want him to, for the same reason. It's fascinating stuff, seeing how powerful Luca's ability to control her Cosmosphere is due to her being a Dive Therapist, but also how genuinely dangerous that control is. Not just the fact that she can box off an entire section of her mind, but the fact that she can at will basically try to kill us with nothing but a thought, and it's only the intervention of another part of her that prevented it. This is really getting across how scary and dangerous Diving is, when the first game's worst examples of how bad Dives could go is "oops I accidentally re-traumatized her right at the Paradigm Shift so the next layer is kinda ****ed" and "oops I've been chained to a sex dungeon bed and could, theoretically, die".

This feels a lot more interesting, and shows they're willing to do more interesting stuff with the Dives... even if the Dives cannot actively participate in the main plot due to being fundamentally optional. The game can assume where you might be dive-wise based on how the encounter system works, but it's still very difficult to get the plot to match the Dive progression, and it's something I feel is a missed opportunity. A more modern game with this system could absolutely manage it. At least there are talk topics about the Dives here, which weren't as common in the first game... though it does raises some interesting questions. Like "who the **** is Goro and which Goro did we meet if Luca knows Goro as a man????"

------

Anyway hey turns out this episode has one other massively interesting to me thing to discuss: what the **** is up with the Standards and Practices of video games of this era? We know contemporaries like Working Design absolutely pushed the limit of what could be said in these scripts, and it's clear from some of the heavier typos in more obscure parts of the game that there wasn't as much quality control as they'd have liked (that, plus the fact that the English localization broke an entire boss fight). So what gives with that scene post Coconoa IPDing? Amaria confronting Croix about his sulking and saying, in classic anime fashion, that he sucks to help cheer him up?

Because, in a game where one of the character's main conflicts is "this harlot stole my love interests virginity and I'm super bitter about it", the censorship board decided they weren't allowed to say "The **** hits the fan" and the localizer went with the........... honestly truly baffling replacement of "When the Brown Moses hits the fan".

I've got nothing else to say on this topic. It's just shocking and silly and weird, in the best confusing ways. It's part of why I loved the idea of doing this.

[LaZodiac]

Sorry for the delay on this one! Internet was under going some fixing, among other things.

Zodi Streams: Evoland 2 [3] Heaven or Hell

Video Length: 3:01:43

Picking back up where we left off with Evoland 2, because Qwerty has gone home. We were going to test if we can stream Ar Tonelico 2 while she's at home but... her laptop was also lost during the flights homes. So until that's back, back to Evoland 2- though also note that when ART2 is back and if we can stream it we'll be alternating that and another game.

Anyway hey, Evoland 2 time; wherein we finally learn the full breadth of the prophecy of the Great Destroyer, get into a somewhat overly long shmup section (with some questionable decisions), a Street Fighter minigame, and then (after some time shinanigans and the acquirement of our final party member, Bnnuy) some Endless RunnerxMega Man and Bomberman to round things out. Minecraft is there too, at least in spirit.

What a strange video games Evoland 2 is turning out to be. Today's the next stream day so I wonder what it'll be today...

[LaZodiac]

Oh dang I completely forgot to post the fourth Evoland 2 stream here.

Zodi Streams: Evoland 2 [4] Aggressively Interesting

Video Length: 3:12:07

Zodi Streams: Evoland 2 [5] Inexplicable Jedi Forest

Video Length: 3:12:52

In this pair of episodes, we begin the game's seemingly final major task; collecting the Magi Keys!.. after some brief Chrono Triggering in Professor Giro's lab. Five keys, five areas left to explore, lets do this!

The first we hit is Windy Valley, causing a time paradox of "where did the flying machine come from?" that ends up creating an entire new town... and giving us access to a Magilith that pops us all the way back to Gameboy Classic times, in the age of the Magi. Therein we learn the truth- this is a cyclical time-loop, and Kat- once G, once Professor Giro- was chosen to keep the cycle intact. Nothing actually happens with this information we just learn it incidentally- also incidental, the entirety of this continent and its surrounding islands is on the back of a giant tentacle creature that emits a powerful energy, and it is likely Smug is the energy bleeding off of it due to the Weapon exploding and wounding it severely. Poor Tiki.

We also get a key fragment in the super past, in a VERY cool and esoteric area that I really enjoyed. Second key fragment is at the Timeless Woods, where we find an infinite now, learn Gonna is a quarter Sprite on her father's side, and also meet everyone's favorite overused parody of a game mechanic that genuinely isn't as annoying as anyone says, Shutup. This is a puzzle dungeon that played around with time shenanigans but was otherwise kinda bleh, especially when we hit the Yoda Tree which made Qwerty- someone who is usually very lenient and gentle- just tell the game to shut up. So that was fun!

After that... we head to Demonia (after exploring some islands in various times) and begin Evoland 2 Tactics, or Flaming Medallion, or Shape Strategery, or whatever any joke you want to make of the fact we're now in the middle of a Tactical RPG. Neato! We'll be finishing that up in TODAY'S stream, which is in about 30 minutes. Hope to see you there... and to see what happens next.

[LaZodiac]

Okay, video round up time now that I've got the time and will to do so.

We finished Evoland 2, so lets get that over with...

Zodi Streams: Evoland 2 [6] Double Demon Revengeance

Video Length: 3:17:14

Zodi Streams: Evoland 2 [7] All For Nothing

Video Length: 2:53:41

In these two episodes, we finish the tactics RPG section of the game, learning the awful truth (that we already knew from going to the super past)... Demons were made by the Magi. They are forever destined to a brief time of freedom sandwiched between two endless struggles of slavery and genocide. Luckily with our time travel powers we can, maybe, hopefully, fix things for the better when we remove the Weapon from time! We then continue our hunt for the Magi Key fragments, involving a DDR fight against the Grand Magus, a Double Dragon esque pirate fighting adventure, and a hellish dive into the world of competitive viking Match Three Puzzle Game. With that done, the Magi Key has been reconstructed! Hooray!

The weapon successfully removed, things are now better! Gonna's village is back- ah it is abandoned due to being a rural village in a time of modernity. Well at least the city of Genova is better- wait no even though it has switched to wind power capitalism still rules and everyone sucks they're just less smug about it and aren't polluting the world. Despite this the ice continent is still melting cause as it turns out the pollution isn't doing it, just the legendary ice book being there and we took that when we won Bejeweled. Well at least Sarahs is now fully powered up and able to remember everything now.

And because of that, she's going to go kill Tiny Tiki, in an attempt to break the cycle that history is in. Or destroy time, whichever happens happens. That's not good, so we go to stop her and get a pretty funny shooter segment, then are immediately thrust into a three stage boss fight with her involving the standard sword gameplay, platforming gameplay, and the shooting gameplay once again. We kill her, but the damage is done... and Kat is lost within the time void.

Our heroes are scattered; Gonna going on to build Giro, who we know for sure to be G, who is Kat, in hopes of finding where Kat has vanished to. Bnnuy and Guyus going into seclusion and having a child together... Sarahs. Kat finally returning from the time void to meet back up with Gonna, where in... they become horribly inattentive parents to their son, Sid, setting up that, and are eventually chased out or full-on killed by G coming in from his direction. Guyus and Bnnuy eventually die, doing nothing of note otherwise, leaving a time powers having super baby who will get kidnapped by Giro and used to make the weapon... but in a moment of weakness, gets blasted by Sarahs into Gonna's time, where his memory is scrambled and he becomes Kat once more.

And it is here that two things happen. One; we get a Metroid reference where our completion percentage gives us footage of all the heroes in bikinis, and two; the other foot finally drops on this story.

Everything we did was part of the cycle. Including Sarahs trying to stop it. Including our stopping her. All of it. We never had any chance, we never had any hope, fate is eternal and unbending and trying to bend it simply clicked it into place all the firmer. And there is nothing we can do to prevent this.

To put it bluntly I hated this ending. It soured the entire experience because it made the game's flaws stand out all the sharper now that I know every single second of it was wasted time. I don't mind bad endings- I don't mind when the heroes fail. It's okay. But the game seemed like it wanted to say something about fate, about time, and about how we can affect things... and what it wanted to say is "boy video games, huh".

You can take some symbolism from this, of course. Video games are, of course, inert existences- they cannot go beyond what they are. You can save Hyrule a thousand times and it'll always be in danger next time- not because of the sequels, but because once you start the game again, it happens all over again. Video games are inherently cyclical because there is no perfect and true golden ending because they are, fundamentally, stories, with beginnings and ends, and nothing changes what happens between those two points. You can't read the same book multiple times and get a different outcome. Making that go from meta-text and having it be the literal text of the game is, theoretically, something that could come off well.

The problem is that it's a ****ing bummer. Or, more seriously; I actually lied. You can go through the same story again and get different endings. Because you, the person reading a book or playing a game for the first time, you don't know what's going to happen next. This influences your experience- it lets you theorize, it lets you wonder, it lets you get invested in the characters and events you are experiencing. If you've played it before, if you remember how it ends, it changes things. You don't theorize, instead you start to more directly notice ways the game sets up that ending. You notice the little details you didn't the first time, you have a more practiced experience because the you who is going through this right now has already done so and thus knows the score- you are more learned as a person on this second go-through, and this influences things. Playing through something fresh, for the first time, is different from playing through something you've played before, and that matters.

And there's something you could make from this. There's a story one could make, about the retroactively futility of it, of cycles and how your first time through something is a unique experience and your subsequent times through something is ALSO a unique experience because while you yourself are different, this particular river is one that never "really" changes. The problem is that you have to build to it, you have to make that the centerpiece of what you are doing, and you have to be smart about it.

I don't think Evoland 2 is smart enough to do this. The ending soured my experience so completely that I apologized to the people watching, and I apologize again to the people reading this. Thank you for your time.

... anyway, how about them magical girl cyborgs huh???

------

Zodi Streams: Ar Tonelico 2 [6] Magical Girl Rabies Survivor Club

Video Length: 3:07:26

Zodi Streams: Ar Tonelico 2 [7] A Choice Between Vortexal and Fuglycool

Video Length: 3:31:21

At least these will be easier to go over than everything that happened in Evoland 2...

The long and short of it is; the ever wonderful and beautiful Qwerty has fought her way back up to where she was previously in this game, post laptop lose, and we are able to continue our adventures into Metafals. We've learned that Luca's main goal has been to find her sister (understandable) and that she may be manipulating us emotionally to do so (rougher, but also she's definitely lying about this). We learn Cloche has personally outlawed Dive Therapy in Pastalia... but is willing to bend the law to save IPD victims, who Luca can heal through therapy sessions with them. We also learn that Cloche knew about this and that's why Dive Therapy is illegal- the government wants to use IPD victims as berserker warriors in their fight against the Goddess. What the ****.

We also reach our path split; do we go with Luca and the Sacred Army and fight against a corrupt dictatorship, or do we stick with Cloche and protect this caged bird from the hellish life the government has assigned her? The people went for Luca, and so we did... next time, we'll find out just what that means for us exactly.

------

And finally; hey, today (January 27) is my birthday! So we had a birthday stream... a stream that crashed at the game split so is two videos. Convenient I don't have to edit anything!

2024 Zodi Birthday Stream [1] Guilty Gear Strive

Video Length: 1:24:54

2024 Zodi Birthday Stream [2] Dr Mario VS

Video Length: 1:42:09

I have nothing indepth or meaningful to talk about these. They were just a load of fun hanging out with my friends and loved ones. Thank you Raziere for your wonderful showing in Strive, and thank you Qwerty for the Dr Mario escalation game idea, and thank you all of you, my friends, for coming to hang out with me. I really appreciate it.

[Rater202]

Hippie Birdies Zodi.

[Lord Raziere]

I have nothing indepth or meaningful to talk about these. They were just a load of fun hanging out with my friends and loved ones. Thank you Raziere for your wonderful showing in Strive, and thank you Qwerty for the Dr Mario escalation game idea, and thank you all of you, my friends, for coming to hang out with me. I really appreciate it.

Your welcome, glad I could be there, glad to provide a show, and hey I learned how to be a bit more defensive fighting you, how to react better to someone attacking me and play around their plays. So everyone wins. I think the reason I was able to good at this is that my experience with Db Fighter Z transferred over a bit so I got the logic of this game even if its at a more advanced level. cause I know that DBFZ is secretly baby's first fighting game and I thank it for that.

and just to be clear what went into this: I picked up this game like five days ago from a steam sale specifically for this just to try. Bridget wasn't even my first pick. I tried at first to practice with Baiken, because I liked her look and personality based on what I could find of her, but wasn't quite clicking. So I tried Bridget second, and it so much better, faster, lighter and workable to me than Baiken was and just had fun see what she could do, all the while enjoying Bridget's music which sound happy but the lyrics are less than happy for most of the song. I tried Millia, various other characters I thought would be interesting, but Millia and Chip were the ones I liked at all, and Bridget just ended up being the best of them. as much I would've want to like, prepare for more this, I ended not as playing as much I wanted. I played Bridget on Arcade mode but consistently could only got to normal mode difficulty. mr. grandsecretary of defense would be hard and keep knocking me down a difficulty then I beat everything else fine.

I even tried the tower, its started me on level 5 but I lost my first match and got kicked down to 4.

Before all this I tried to study the movesets, the strategies and so on of the characters that sounded good to me, but the guides didn't really help and I seem to learn more by doing and using the character in actual matches over and over again.

Overall I like how much this game automatically determines recommended difficulty and matches itself to your level, it very much wants you to learn its mechanics and master them and thus gives you all the tools you need to do so. its very well-designed and speaks of lot of iterative design and refining over time. I'm a very aggressive and button-mashy player in these games and its probably holding me back from pressing the highly specific combinations I need to be better, because Zodi, she seems to be able to consistently pull off Chipp's combo, while the only way I've ever seen myself pull off Bridget's is in like, training mode when I'm like going crazy trying things out and just stumble on it by luck but don't know what exactly I did to make it happen.

[DataNinja]

To put it bluntly I hated this ending. It soured the entire experience because it made the game's flaws stand out all the sharper now that I know every single second of it was wasted time. I don't mind bad endings- I don't mind when the heroes fail. It's okay. But the game seemed like it wanted to say something about fate, about time, and about how we can affect things... and what it wanted to say is "boy video games, huh".

Yeah, it's mostly disappointing because there was potential. But in the end, most of it seemed to just be... window dressing you couldn't actually interact with. Like... almost nothing in the Magi Area actually mattered, despite that being the area you'd think would have answered all your questions. Your party barely reacts. You can go places and learn lore, but none of it actually matters.

It feels like it's building to something, and then it says "yeah, sorry, all these things characters said they wanted to change for the better, literally none of them get changed. Everyone dies basically alone and depressed. And the world continues to fall apart in an endless cycle with no hope to stop it. Enjoy!"

[LaZodiac]

Hey, lets do some more Ar Tonelico 2, why don't we?

Zodi Streams: Ar Tonelico 2 [8] Replakia

Video Length: 3:22:57

Zodi Streams: Ar Tonelico 2 [9] Birth of a New Land

Video Length: 3:16:27

In these two episodes, we take a look at both sides of the (first, it seems) major bit of path-branching of the game. We're going with Luca, the childhood friend, but Qwerty wanted to see how Cloche's side goes about things as well... and we were instantly rewarded in the doing of so, with Alfman's Realistic Ass Pistol that is secretly a lollipop holder he uses to threaten people. Incredible stuff that. Luca's side has much less in the way of comedic nonsense like that (as well as much less "wait why the **** did you join this side?" rhetoric) and instead has a lot more... religious zealotry as the game makes it very clear that even if the Grand Bell are clearly the villains, the Sacred Army is not all that better either. We also get the first couple instances of "sometimes Zodi's official release version has a couple lines removed that Qwerty's fan-translation version has in" which is shocking as hell every time it happens.

Regardless though, all of these plot points coalesce into the big confrontation- Cloche singing Replakia, and Luca attempting to sing Hibernation to counter it... and the mysterious tube visions that Luca has been having the entire game stop her, so Replakia concludes, activates Infel Pira, and provides our first major song baed mechanic- fan club powered laser cannon that empowers our Red Magic to ludicrous levels. We also meet what may be the main actual antagonist of the game, the system administrator who upset at us breaking the ToS due to firing said orbital song laser. Oops. Thankfully the admin of another server is here to fight her off in her tuba powered mech suit so as to protect our heroes as we all head towards our main goal: singing land into creation so we don't die when the artificial land inevitably decays and falls into the death fog below.

... video games are fun sometimes.

We head up to the sacred sight where the Metafalica song must be sung so that new land can be created... but unfortunately, things go wrong, and we hit the major result of our path split- Luca, empowered by Croix's love and respect, sacrifices herself to stop Cloche from being shot by a powerful laser. She is by all accounts seemingly dead, but hey the new land has been built (and apparently looks different depending on who dies and who lives) and I'm sure things are going to be okay from here on out as- *insert scene of Laude and Jakuri discussing secrets* ah heck. Well, we'll find out more about that next time. After we make more love-weapons anyway...

[Rater202]

Oooh, more Metal Gear Sunny.

...Zodi, do not forget that you are in the ****-all north part of the planet and thus that the sun sets differently for you this time.

[LaZodiac]

Oh don't worry, I'll never forget that. Beating this game with the waning sunlight, barely able to provide energy but also making the screen near entirely unreadable, is something I'll never forget.

Zodi Streams: Boktai 2 [1] Bonktai

Video Length: 3:22:03

Qwerty is feeling unwell (give her your well wishes!) and as such, we're moving on to the next project; a return to the Boktai series, one of my favorite series of all time. So lets get straight to it, shall we?

Fresh off the heels of killing his aunt/mother, Django and Otenko find themselves on the outskirts of San Miguel, City of the Sun... and discover that the Undeadening has struck here as well. Uh oh. Luckily, our Gun del Sol is more than a match for most of these enemies... which is why it's unfortunate that the mysterious hat wearing vampire stealing the gun, and being able to USE said gun, is quite unfortunate for us. Luckily, Zazie the Sunflower Girl has given us an amaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaazing magic machine, that'll serve as the foundation for this series' gameplay for the rest of time: the Sol de Vice. With this magic gauntlet we can enchant regular weapons with various magical effects, which'll be vital in tearing apart our enemies and their minions with swords, hammers, and spears (and our fists!) as well as providing useful support magic.

Our first major task though? The blacksmith, Steel Smith, the Gunmaster, has gone missing in the Chapel. His daughter Violet wishes for us to save him, and we ARE a hero, so we head off to do so. After dealing with the rather obtuse puzzles of the place, we locate our first immortal; White Duneyyr, a moth woman of considerable power... but lacking in much senses, given she just woke up. Easily dispatched, we rescue Smith and drag Duneyyr back to the plaza to be Pile Driver'd into oblivion.

Not bad for a first episode if I must say. Boktai 2's gameplay loop is quite different from the first game... and yet also quite similar. A hub instead of a series of branching paths as you head onwards, far more side dungeons and far more troublesome puzzles within, and deep within each axis of the hub an Immortal or two looming in the darkness, waiting for you to arrive. Unlike the first, which felt far more like a wandering gunslinger on a quest, we have the worn down city of San Miguel that we will slowly, bit by bit, build back up and protect- taking on another powerful western archetype, that of the cowboy who sticks around, and protects. But what will our lone warrior lose in the process I wonder...

[Rater202]

Robin comes in with the Metal Gear reference and immediately my brain goes to the exchange in Meta Gear Solid 2.

*After learning that Vamp drinks blood*
"Is that why he's called Vamp?"
"Actually, it's because he's bisexual."
*Awkward silence*

[LaZodiac]

Robin comes in with the Metal Gear reference and immediately my brain goes to the exchange in Meta Gear Solid 2.

*After learning that Vamp drinks blood*
"Is that why he's called Vamp?"
"Actually, it's because he's bisexual."
*Awkward silence*

See the really funny thing is that in my personal head canon for the series, Vamp is what he is (vampire, not bisexual) because of an incursion into the world of Boktai. But I'll detail why I think that later...

[Rater202]

See the really funny thing is that in my personal head canon for the series, Vamp is what he is (vampire, not bisexual) because of an incursion into the world of Boktai. But I'll detail why I think that later...

So you're just ignoring the "random mutant with his inherent abilities cracked up to 11 by nanomachines" explanation.

...If you look at it in chronological order, over time the villains in Metal Gear shift from natural/mystical threats over time to things that are completely artificial like cyborgs and machines and it's honestly kind of interesting. Kina wonder if that was deliberate.