OOTS #1242 - The Discussion Thread

[TuringTest]

He bites the Exarch, saving the tiger from certain death in no. 1014. But otherwise yeah.

Oh yes, good catch. Important, though not plot-altering, I suppose.

I choose to think of this as Bloodfeast warming up for the encounter where he unleashes the fury. Also, I love how he’s just sitting there holding Mr. Scruffy back. Hopefully the rest of the Order gets back on their feet soon; I think they’ll need a little more than this to beat Serini.

Yes, probably. To be fair there haven't been many situations where a small lizard (one without magical powers of its own) could prove useful, of course. Until today.

[danielxcutter]

I am entirely happy with this turn of events. Also Bloodfeast in the second panel is somehow adorable.

[Wraithfighter]

I always love a good "Can you (Noun) at them" bit, but "Cleric Vigorously" is just chef's kiss good. Helps keep suspense about what she will do, and is easily justified by Halley not really knowing what Minrah can do.

[LtPowers]

I had not thought to role-play the calm emotions spell that way, but seeing it in action like this?

Yep, I am definitely following the pattern of this strip from now on!

Don't go overboard. Belkar reacted like this because he is driven by his emotions. If he's not angry about something (or lusting after someone), he has no idea what to do.

Someone like Roy would not react this way; he's driven by his internal moral compass. That's not an emotion and would not be affected by the spell.


Powers &8^]

[Metastachydium]

Also Bloodfeast in the second panel is somehow adorable.

Is he ever not adorable, though?

[littlebum2002]

Haley only had the aura for a single panel though, then it was gone. And the effect there looks a lot less flamelike. And I don't think we've seen any other Protection from Stuff spells with an ongoing aura, so Belkar's clasp seems to be special in many ways. I assumed the aura was linked to the painful sensation, but now it is apparent I was wrong.

I found a better example: Haley's Boots of Speed

[RMS Oceanic]

Maybe the PfE aura is still flaring because it's interacting with the charm spell.

This was a nice turnabout. Time for a quick shot of country and western!

[danielxcutter]

Is he ever not adorable, though?

Well, more than usual here at least.

[pendell]

Since Durkon was out of the field when he got petrificated all his spells would have been back online.

Didn't they have mind-affecting buffs up before this combat? I assumed they were stripped off by AMF and not renewed.

If not -- well, we saw that at least half the party succumbed to vampiric domination in the last book. If they were prepping for Xykon and Redcloak AGAIN without all their normal buffs against someone who's go-to spell is energy drain, well, I'm not sure what to do for them. I get that the Order isn't a minmaxing party who goes for the optimal builds and combat feats, but there's a difference between "average party" and "willfully idiot ball" party.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Quizatzhaderac]

I'm wondering what a calm emotion'd V would sound like.

Probably the same.

It'd have to be subtle as V like's to pretend to be in control of their emotions.

[SlashDash]

But correct me if I'm wrong, aren't they still in the same situation? Sunny can use his eyes again if he wants next round.

So whatever the order are going to do, they better do it fast.

[Yuki Akuma]

Love it.

I'm sure the hate-brigade from the last couple of discussion threads will bemoan this as "yet another instance of outside interference being needed to save the Order" despite Bloodfeast being LITERALLY a class feature of Belkar, just like they complained about Mr. Scruffy saving the day in the Vampire fight.

But, let's be honest, they'll always find something to be upset about.

Bloodfeast is a class feature?

Mr. Scruffy is definitely Belkar's Animal Companion, but don't Rangers only get one of those?

I guess "Handle Animal as a class skill" is a class feature...

[bunsen_h]

Also love how Bloodfeast continues to contribute throughout the page.

Having been watching videos from Snake Discovery recently, I have to wonder how many of Bloodfeast's actions are determined by wanting to help, and how many by "that looks like food, so I will try to eat it".

[Fyraltari]

Don't go overboard. Belkar reacted like this because he is driven by his emotions. If he's not angry about something (or lusting after someone), he has no idea what to do.

Someone like Roy would not react this way; he's driven by his internal moral compass. That's not an emotion and would not be affected by the spell.


Powers &8^]

That's... debatable? All drive to do something are fueled by emotions who may in turn be triggered by one's moral compass. Given that Belkar is now indifferent to his own survival I'm not as sure as you are that Roy would still be willing to fight unless prompted as Belkar is now.

Didn't they have mind-affecting buffs up before this combat? I assumed they were stripped off by AMF and not renewed.

All I can find is this. I leave the conclusions to people with a greater understanding of the game tha' mine.

[Joe the Rat]

“Cleric at them vigorously” was my favorite line.

Indeed

At the next opportunity, I will, in game, tell someone to "Cleric at them".

[danielxcutter]

Hmm.

I don’t think Xykon and Redcloak use mind-affecting abilities a whole lot. And stuff like Magic Circle Against Evil would help in a pinch.

[DavidSh]

Didn't they have mind-affecting buffs up before this combat? I assumed they were stripped off by AMF and not renewed.

My understanding is that the Anti-Magic Field suppresses effects, it doesn't dispel. Renewal is not necessary.

[Reboot]

Maybe the PfE aura is still flaring because it's interacting with the charm spell.

I think you're right. PfX only suppresses charms/etc, it doesn't dispel them.

This was a nice turnabout. Time for a quick shot of country and western!

Song of Freedom's essentially useless in combat, since it takes 10 rounds ("Using this ability requires 1 minute of uninterrupted concentration and music,"
https://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/bard.htm ). Meanwhile, Roy would tske et least three spells to get up & running (Neutralise Poison, Cure/Heal, Restoration), the last of which Elan doesn't efen have. He's going for V for a reason - they just need a Cure to get going, although they also need the Slow dispelled for full effectiveness, probably.

Elan's other option is to try a Greater Dispel (which he has, to break some of the status conditions. But getting V back up first may be better.

[pendell]

That's... debatable? All drive to do something are fueled by emotions who may in turn be triggered by one's moral compass. Given that Belkar is now indifferent to his own survival I'm not as sure as you are that Roy would still be willing to fight unless prompted as Belkar is now.


All I can find is this. I leave the conclusions to people with a greater understanding of the game tha' mine.

I think this correlates with your theory. The team is told to prep buffs of medium duration. Mass Death Ward is a homebrew but Stoneskin is SRD and lasts 10 minutes/level. Protection from Evil lasts 1 min/level so I guess that is a short-term buff. Which they would have used if they hadn't been ambushed and AMFd. So this isn't a failure on the party's part; it's clever tactics on Serini's.

The jury is still out as to whether Mass Death Ward is still effective or not, because I don't think any of the effects Sunny used were death effects, so the hypothesis remains untested.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Svata]

Chain-reaction teamwork! Yay!

It's great to see Bloodfeast actively participating, I don't remember the lovely bug doing anything but sleep since it was polymorphed.



Thanks to your prompt to review that panel, I've also noticed later Haley saying "V and the boys are all out of it". So Haley doesn't think of V as one of the boys. Interesting.

Because they aren't? V's gender is... ambiguous, but y'know, given everything we've seen of elves, including elven kids calling their parents "parent" and "other parent" instead of gendered terms, it's pretty clear that they're not within the human concept of gender as such and so V literally isn't "one of the boys" or "one of the girls" either.

[kenlund]

Elan has potentially a lot of support actions he can potentially do. Take care of V's poison and heal. Take care of Roy's poison and heal. Song of Freedom to fix Durkon being stone (but I don't think he can do that during a fight, not sure). There probably aren't enough rounds in the fight for him to do everything....before the Sunny takes him down anyways.

[danielxcutter]

I don’t think V’s been knocked out with SLEEP poison, they looked conscious when they fell to the ground.

[gatemansgc]

the giant is a master of suspense!
been giddy waiting for this, though finally starting to read one piece online has helped. caught up to where the 4kids dub ended so everything i'm reading now is new.

seems the theories of durkon beating the flesh to stone weren't correct! and it also seems he didn't neutralize roy's poison in time. but minrah is really proving herself as an important part of the order!

also this is probably the most participation we'll get out of bloodfeast since the breaking of its enchantment likely won't happen until the final battle.

[Fyraltari]

I think this correlates with your theory. The team is told to prep buffs of medium duration. Mass Death Ward is a homebrew but Stoneskin is SRD and lasts 10 minutes/level. Protection from Evil lasts 1 min/level so I guess that is a short-term buff. Which they would have used if they hadn't been ambushed and AMFd. So this isn't a failure on the party's part; it's clever tactics on Serini's.

The jury is still out as to whether Mass Death Ward is still effective or not, because I don't think any of the effects Sunny used were death effects, so the hypothesis remains untested.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

How long does regular Death Ward last?

[PontificatusRex]

Does anyone else think that Belkar looks really, really weird without his cloak? I know we've seen it before when he was a gladiator, but then the whole ensemble was different. Funny how one can get so used to a particular look and that's it's really disconcerting when an element of it is changed.

Also, it's hilarious that Belkar fantasizes about giant death machine animal companions but it's a house cat and a lizard that keep saving the day. I kinda hope Bloodfeast never changes back.

[Flechette63]

I don’t think V’s been knocked out with SLEEP poison, they looked conscious when they fell to the ground.

One quibble I haven't seen brought up. Elves are typically immune to sleep effects so unless that's been waived I suspect the poison causes "unconscious" or something similar but distinct from "sleep". That might change what it takes to undo the condition.

Alternatively you're completely correct and something else caused the sudden drop. (Edit: Which would be cool, not intending to be dismissive or flippant. I was actually hoping that'd be an interesting wrinkle for Serini to deal with a few strips ago.)

[Metastachydium]

How long does regular Death Ward last?

One minute per level.

[Fyraltari]

If Serini had really prepared for this fight, she would have had several creatures around to tie up the Order. Or at least throw a tanglefoot bag. Who would have thought a paladin would have been prepared for an ambush than an epic rouge?

It's likely that Team Evil made a serious dent in the number of monsters assigned to the fake tunnels by this point and Serini may be unwilling to compromise her actual defenses to take on thr Order too much on the off-chance that this is the day somebody on TE rolls a natural 20 on Spot and realizes the fake tunnel trick.

One minute per level.

So around fifteen minutes then? Assuming that the Mass version lasts at most as long as the regular one, it's probably run out by now.

[Arkku]

Serini probably should have used a few of those attacks to ensure the incapacitated party members stay that way.

[Arkain]

Remove Fear might have done the trick, but we would have missed out on apathetic Belkar. And apathetic Belkar is hilarious